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3DFibs fool

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Offline fanimation

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3DFibs fool
« on: February 02, 2005, 01:09:53 AM »
First Sorry,

i cant  believe that the 3DFibs programm works without fool.

If i play against the computer i lost 9 from 10 games.

That´s  :no: -

May be i am a very bad player, but a question.

Why the computer need only one chance to come back to the board and in the same position i need 20?

Why it is so.

And, sorry if you dont believe me i make from 100 Games log and have save them.

All the same.

3DFibs is realy very user friendly, but play with fool.

Thanks.

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3DFibs fool
« on: February 02, 2005, 01:09:53 AM »

Offline tucsonAZ

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 03:13:24 AM »
Quote
First Sorry,

i cant  believe that the 3DFibs programm works without fool.

If i play against the computer i lost 9 from 10 games.

That´s  :no: -

May be i am a very bad player, but a question.

Why the computer need only one chance to come back to the board and in the same position i need 20?

Why it is so.

And, sorry if you dont believe me i make from 100 Games log and have save them.

All the same.

3DFibs is realy very user friendly, but play with fool.

Thanks.

Hi,

It is quite normal to suspect the bots since they win so many games. If you have saved your matches, why not convert them to jf.mat format and evauate them for errors using gnubg.  You may be surprised at how many obvious moves you have missed. Gnubg also has a pretty good luck factor analysis so you can see if you really were unlucky but played good, or if you played bad and were just lucky. It is a good way to improve your game. It is used by almost all high level players and it is an accepted software in the backgammon community.

maareyes (tucsonAZ on fibs)

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 03:13:24 AM »

Offline lewscannon

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 03:04:39 PM »
Quote
Quote
First Sorry,

i cant  believe that the 3DFibs programm works without fool.

If i play against the computer i lost 9 from 10 games.

That´s  :no: -

May be i am a very bad player, but a question.

Why the computer need only one chance to come back to the board and in the same position i need 20?

Why it is so.

And, sorry if you dont believe me i make from 100 Games log and have save them.

All the same.

3DFibs is realy very user friendly, but play with fool.

Thanks.

Hi,

It is quite normal to suspect the bots since they win so many games. If you have saved your matches, why not convert them to jf.mat format and evauate them for errors using gnubg.  You may be surprised at how many obvious moves you have missed. Gnubg also has a pretty good luck factor analysis so you can see if you really were unlucky but played good, or if you played bad and were just lucky. It is a good way to improve your game. It is used by almost all high level players and it is an accepted software in the backgammon community.

maareyes (tucsonAZ on fibs)
Clearly, TusconAZ is part of the conspiracy. He/she probably designs bots and cackles evilly while doing so. I'm a fairly high-rated player, but 3d fibs has a certain way of rolling itself out of almost anything I can send its way most of the time. God forbid that I should ever gammon the thing. In all seriousness, though, it seems to be almost a timed thing, and that's what's strange about it. Some days I own it, and most others it kills me. And the matches are never close, either way. It makes regular Fibs look normal.

Sincerely,

lewscannon
c/o NY Mental Hospital
Paranoid Division

Offline Shades

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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 03:32:49 PM »
Quote


Hi,

It is quite normal to suspect the bots since they win so many games.
question was.... "Why the computer need only one chance to come back to the board and in the same position i need 20?"....  which you don't respond at all... :tears:  
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog.

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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 03:32:49 PM »

Offline soky

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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 06:12:17 PM »
I have observed that not only the computers are so incredibly lucky, but every single one of my human opponent as well! Guess, it's a kind of conspiracy, don't know how to solve that problem ...

Edit:
To be a bit constructive:
http://www.bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+970
http://www.bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+1152
It's a really old discussion ... and the answer still is: No, the bots don't cheat, but we all are bad players in comparison to them (and sometimes poor losers).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 06:23:28 PM by soky »

Offline Shades

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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 11:37:10 PM »
Quote
I have observed that not only the computers are so incredibly lucky, but every single one of my human opponent as well! Guess, it's a kind of conspiracy, don't know how to solve that problem ...

Edit:
To be a bit constructive:
http://www.bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+970
http://www.bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+1152
It's a really old discussion ... and the answer still is: No, the bots don't cheat, but we all are bad players in comparison to them (and sometimes poor losers).
if you can't answer the question... why not keep your mouth shut??... Always big words and finally just say some crap...!!! :no:  
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog.

Offline socksey

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2005, 12:28:57 AM »
As an old friend of mine was fond of saying...........The answer is that there is no answer.  There is only the search.   :P

socksey



"Documentation is like sex when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."  - Dick Brandon
 

Offline Shades

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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2005, 06:58:11 PM »
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As an old friend of mine was fond of saying...........The answer is that there is no answer.  There is only the search.   :P

socksey



"Documentation is like sex when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."  - Dick Brandon
...isn't still an answer to a reasonable question....
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog.

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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2005, 06:58:11 PM »

Offline socksey

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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2005, 10:42:10 PM »
If you look closely, I think you have the answer.   ;)

What was the question?    :rolleyes:

socksey



To write with a broken pencil is pointless. - anonymous
« Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 10:45:30 PM by socksey »

Offline Shades

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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2005, 03:14:12 PM »
Quote
If you look closely, I think you have the answer.   ;)

What was the question?    :rolleyes:

socksey



To write with a broken pencil is pointless. - anonymous
sure is..... making a joke and walking around it as usual... B)  
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog.

Offline Kari_Grandi

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2005, 06:41:08 PM »
yes Shades,

it's pointless to complain about dice (as we once talked in shouts).
I've lost about 40 rating points in 2 days but I'll survive ;)

Kari

Offline fanimation

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2005, 08:40:00 PM »
Hello Fanimation here,

sorry may be my english is not so well but i hope you will understand me.

First and again, i love it to play with that realy nice tool 3dfibs, there is nothing about the design, useabillity and so on, but.

I do not understand why people mean if someone wrote:

"I need 20 times to come back to the board, but 3dfibs need only 2-3 change"

why you dont believe him?

Why is that so, you thing i am a very great and giant idiot to wrote that this what happened is unpossible.

Sorry, but if i will lost 8 games from 10 that ok. But 10 from 10, without a possibility to win, thats not normal.

tucsonAZ wrote:

"It is quite normal to suspect the bots since they win so many games. If you have saved your matches, why not convert them to jf.mat format and evauate them for errors using gnubg. You may be surprised at how many obvious moves you have missed. Gnubg also has a pretty good luck factor analysis so you can see if you really were unlucky but played good, or if you played bad and were just lucky. It is a good way to improve your game. It is used by almost all high level players and it is an accepted software in the backgammon community."

Sorry,  tucsonAZ i know what you mean. But thing about it.
You go and buy a car to drive with it.
Then you see, the car dont work like you think a car must work.
Now the Seller say to you:
O, if you will drive that car like a car, please buy this for 2000 $ and it will do what a car has to do.

No, if i download a Game (thank god is free, and thanks all the developers for their great job) i wont to play and not more.

Another problem of 3dfibs is, that if i let one dice alone, the computer hit it out of the board by the first possibility  -  but if the computer let one dice alone i need 20 time to hit him out.
I wont say to you:
I am afraid to play like i play, because if i let one dice alone he hit me out. What can i do?

Please, i cry to the 3DFibs Community, try to play again the computer and say to me you lie, please but i cant believe that.
I think, that there is a big, big, big bug in the code.

I am sorry to wrote that but thats all what i can say.

regards.




 

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2005, 08:40:00 PM »

Offline Noah

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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2005, 09:09:52 PM »
the computer need only one chance to come back to the board cause you let that field open.
Yor blot was hit cause it was placed on a wrong position.

You miss your changes to come in or shoot an blot cause you throw the wrong numbers on the dice.

An other question.
I have this on fibs... After a few opening rolls my first blot is ALWAYS hit. I can agree with that cause the opponent board has plenty of space to get in But why do i ALWAYS throw a not coming in 6-6 at this moment?
" If you're not living on the edge, you take too much space"

Deurdonderen

Offline Shades

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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2005, 10:17:11 PM »
Quote
the computer need only one chance to come back to the board cause you let that field open.
Yor blot was hit cause it was placed on a wrong position.

You miss your changes to come in or shoot an blot cause you throw the wrong numbers on the dice.

An other question.
I have this on fibs... After a few opening rolls my first blot is ALWAYS hit. I can agree with that cause the opponent board has plenty of space to get in But why do i ALWAYS throw a not coming in 6-6 at this moment?
you hit the nail right on the head Noah....  :D  
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog.

Offline tucsonAZ

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2005, 04:35:36 AM »
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Hello Fanimation here,

..why is that so, you thing i am a very great and giant idiot ?

 
 :D  no famination.  If I thought you were in idiot I would simply ignore you. It is because I believed your post was genuine that I bother to reply.  

Why do you need 20 rolls to get off the bar and the computer needs only 2-3?

The answer is simple. Luck.

Do you always have bad luck and the computer always has good luck?

I cant say. I would have analyze the matches with gnubg.  Maybe you had "go to bed" and "hahahah" luck factor for several games in a row. This happens sometimes.

How about posting some of those saved games so we can see what is going on..



maareyes

Offline fanimation

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2005, 02:05:26 PM »
Hi tucsonAZ,

thanks for your question. But sorry i not believe in Luck. You know luck is somethink that happended one.

If you play lotto or odd-sett or something like that, have you heard that the same person strike 10 times the Jackpot - wins nonstop - have you heard something about it.

Till you tell me something about luck at 3dfibs, i havent heard or read something about this giant luck.

That is what 3DFibs doing, 3DFibs wins 20 time with luck - strike the jackpot.

Ok, if that realy is luck, why i have not the same luck? Where the computer know who is me and 3dfibs?
Right, the computer dont know this, but 3dfibs now this.

Therefore, this is not luck. It have nothing to do with luck. Believe me.

Well i thing i have nerved this community to much, but sorry i must talk with someone who have the same game and the same "unluck" like me.

regards.  :yes:  

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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2005, 02:05:26 PM »

Offline adamosad

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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2005, 03:31:12 PM »
Hi there,

Sometimes i am very unlucky like you. I used to lose much more games in a row like you. After that i heard some other people's advice and i download an analyzer the gnu one which it's free.  i realize that i was unlucky but i did some wrong moves too.  I try to improve my skills as i can't do anything about my luck.

Bots are programmed to play (without errors) any dice. Watch them, watch high rating players and u can learn something more.

After that, if u lose a match that the analyzer shows that u play good but the opponent was lucky, then u can be ok with yourself! It was not your fault!!! It was just a matter of pure luck!!!
 

Offline fanimation

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2005, 04:04:48 PM »
Hi adamosad,

i dont believe it.

When that what you mean will be right, then all the people who playing with 3dfibs needs a bot which control tool.

Think about what you and other people are wrote. You wrote that it is normal that 3dfibs have 9 from 10 times luck. That is unbelieveable.

OK, i know that i am playing very bad. Therefore it is not a problem to los often.

But, if you will be a beginner, and now the rules and if you habe luck than you must win.

Here you cant, why, because 3dfibs fool.

I am not a child and cry if i lost, but i am old enough to understand who is a normal game and who is fool.

If the other wins mostly, then there is some think in the backdoor.

Believe it.

By and greeting.s

Offline tucsonAZ

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3DFibs fool
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2005, 04:35:10 PM »
Quote

..Therefore, this is not luck. It have nothing to do with luck. Believe me...

 

If you are interested in playing a backgammon program but wish to roll your own real dice, try Jellyfish

http://www.jellyfish-backgammon.com/

use the manual dice preference setting.

Or gnubg.

Let me know if you win more games this way and I will check the 3dfibs code for errors.

maareyes (tucsonAZ on fibs)

Offline fanimation

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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2005, 05:59:33 PM »
HI tucsonAZ,

thanks for that link. I will try this.

A,gain i wont that all people on this board know, that i realy like that software.

I course it make me crazy, but if must prefered one it will be this tool.

Please dont understand me wrong, i dont wont to say some body:

"It is you guilt"

I wont only wrote my frustration, therefore thanks again for that great feedback an the sympathy.

TucsonAZ, if i try it i will wrote here again. Thanks again.

greetings.

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