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3DFibs
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Forced move bug
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Topic: Forced move bug (Read 1945 times)
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jonesyjt
Beginner
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Posts: 49
Forced move bug
«
on:
December 15, 2006, 08:22:37 PM »
Hey TusconAZ,
I was playing a very, very back backgame with 9 checkers in my opponents house (covering three of his points) and one on the bar. After my roll, it moved as if it were a forced move, when it was not. It would be nice to be allowed to disable this feature and move myself even if it is forced. Also, I would like to be allowed to disable the "pause for double" even in a crawford match.
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Forced move bug
«
on:
December 15, 2006, 08:22:37 PM »
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don
Casual player
Offline
Posts: 377
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #1 on:
December 16, 2006, 06:44:05 AM »
You must have your automove toggle set to on, jonesey.
help toggle-automove
Quote
NAME
toggle-automove
VALUES
YES: forced moves are done automatically.
NO: You have to move yourself.
DEFAULT
NO
SEE ALSO
move
Personally, I've never seen automove make a mistake, and I'd like to see an example of when it has.
Regarding ["pause for double" even in a crawford match.], all you have to do is toggle double.
help toggle-double
Quote
NAME
toggle-double
VALUES
YES: You will be asked if you want to double.
NO: You won't be asked if you want to double.
If set to NO the server will roll for you even if you
are allowed to double.
DEFAULT
YES
This toggle is reset to YES every time a new game is started
or reloaded.
SEE ALSO
double, roll, toggle-autoroll
FIBS sets the doubling cube off in Crawfords and one-pointers, but you can turn it on again, like if you want to slow down a game with a bot so you can see what's happening. This is an excellent time to point out that FIBS has comprehensive help files that are ignored by most GUIs.
At this point you might want to ask FIBS,
help toggle
Quote
NAME
toggle - display or change the value of toggles
SYNOPSIS
toggle
toggle <option> [<option>...]
DESCRIPTION
'toggle <option>' toggles the status of <option>.
'toggle' without any option gives you a list of currently
available options and their status.
You can type 'to' instead of 'toggle' and also use any unique
prefix for the option, eg 'to gr' for 'toggle greedy'.
Valid options are:
allowpip autoboard autodouble
autoroll automove bell
crawford double greedy
moreboards moves notify
ratings rawboard ready (or just 'r')
report silent telnet
wrap
Type 'help toggle-<option>' to find out what <option> means.
Example: To find out what the 'bell' toggle means type:
help toggle-bell
SEE ALSO
toggle-<option> for all <option>s given above.
'hope this helps! Oh, and you might want to save your options. See FIBS help files!
--
don
«
Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 06:53:02 AM by don
»
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jonesyjt
Beginner
Offline
Posts: 49
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #2 on:
December 16, 2006, 05:17:36 PM »
OK, I didn't see automove in the help list, so i thought this was a 3dfibs thing, not part of the server. And for "pause for double", it always goes back off in a crawford game. I thought "always going back off" was a 3dfibs thing.
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don
Casual player
Offline
Posts: 377
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #3 on:
December 16, 2006, 06:32:40 PM »
You're not the only one, jonesy, which perfectly makes my point that FIBS clients, wonderful as they are,
could
be made to interface better with FIBS:
Clients can easily point to FIBS' in-depth online help;
There's frequently confusion about how to send a command directly to FIBS;
Some clients emulate FIBS commands internally, but differently from FIBS (FIBS is not going to change so clients should act like FIBS for the benefit of, and from the perspective of other FIBS users.).
--
don
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burper
Intermediate
Offline
Posts: 836
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #4 on:
December 17, 2006, 05:50:28 AM »
So when is your improved design coming out? Is there a beta version we can try?
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don
Casual player
Offline
Posts: 377
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #5 on:
December 17, 2006, 07:50:15 AM »
Hey burper, ole_salt, aristoF, CantBuyAThrill, nutcracker, thefog, whatever other IDs you may have on FIBS.
In reply to your
Quote from: burper on December 17, 2006, 05:50:28 AM
So when is your improved design coming out? Is there a beta version we can try?
I can only admit that I've had two versions of a Graphic User Interface (GUI) for FIBS that I've ever shared for comments or testing -- The first I used for about 10 years on FIBS, the second I'm working on, and I freely confess that I've yet to come up with a GUI that I'd release to the general public. I admire
all
of the programmers who have come up with complete programs to interface with FIBS. I have not come up with anything for release.
I'm not sure if you understand computer programming, but I can tell you that there are two factors that are worth measuring, length of a program and I/O (input/output), that relate to difficulty of programming. As the length of a program increases, so does it complexity by at least an order of magnitude. Same same for I/O. My point here is simply that nobody can do it all alone, perfectly. I don't know if you've noticed, but there are programmers who use FIBSboard for suggestions for their clients. There's a whole section of 'em!
Anyway, I've checked out most clients except for MacFIBS. I've also watched users of all clients on FIBS, and I think my suggestions as a programmer are worth more than snide remarks. I am making suggestions based on experience. You seem to have a problem with my suggestion that: No matter what a client does for its
user
, it should be transparent to
other users.
In fact, this is obvious to me, but might be made clear by the following from
http://http://www.fibs.com/fibs_interface.html#tell
:
Quote
Tell
When you send the command:
tell name message
If the recipient meets all of the following criteria:
1. Is online.
2. Is not yourself.
3. Has not gagged you.
4. You have not gagged them.
then, you get back a CLIP You Say line:
16 name message
If the person you are trying to send a message to is not currently logged in or doesn't exist, instead you get the message:
** There is no one called name
If the person you are trying to send a message to has gagged you, you get back the message:
** name won't listen to you.
If you try to send a message to someone you have gagged yourself, you get the message:
** You can't talk if you won't listen.
If you try the tell command with yourself as the recipient you get back:
You say to yourself: message
Note that there is some feedback expected from the FIBS protocol:
Quote
If the person you are trying to send a message to has gagged you, you get back the message:
** name won't listen to you.
Therefore I think that clients should respond to the rest of FIBS with the same, instead of
Quote
If the recipient meets all of the following criteria:
1. Is online.
2. Is not yourself.
3. Has not gagged you.
4. You have not gagged them.
then, you get back a CLIP You Say line:
16 name message
This is a case where
expected
feedback to
other
users, not necessarily using the same GUI, get different results. There are others.
For general purposes, I have no problem with this, but I hope you can see it could impede completion of, say, a tournament. In fact, there is at least one user who thinks, using JavaFIBS, that any match communications between competitors should be referred to the TD. In a tournament situation, I think communication should be clear between players, and therefore I think that GUIs should strive to emulate FIBS.
--
don
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socksey
Global Moderator
Advanced
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1,305
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #6 on:
December 17, 2006, 01:18:39 PM »
I'm still trying to figure out why I keep getting in Javafibs, system messages that answer queries i have not made about various players. Any ideas on this?
socksey
"Sometimes I wish I had never met you. Because then I could go to sleep at night not knowing there was someone like you out there." - Anonymous
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burper
Intermediate
Offline
Posts: 836
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #7 on:
December 17, 2006, 05:25:45 PM »
i can't read all that meandering drivel don.
all i can suggest is that you demand your money back.
if you like, you can complain to repbot about the authors and smite their karma here on fibsboard.
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Hardy_whv
Gold members
Beginner
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 229
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #8 on:
December 17, 2006, 05:43:53 PM »
Quote from: socksey on December 17, 2006, 01:18:39 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why I keep getting in Javafibs, system messages that answer queries i have not made about various players. Any ideas on this?
Hmm, I think you mean the queries that are made for the members of your friends list. To update this list (exp, rating, last login) after logging in JavaFIBS is sending who-messages to FIBS for every entry in your friends list. But that should be done within some minutes after login. After that there are no JavaFIBS generated queries any more.
Hardy
«
Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 07:36:20 PM by Hardy_whv
»
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socksey
Global Moderator
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Posts: 1,305
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #9 on:
December 18, 2006, 01:30:27 AM »
I think maybe you are right.
Thank you!
socksey
"Most of us go to our grave with our music still inside of us." – Anonymous
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don
Casual player
Offline
Posts: 377
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #10 on:
December 18, 2006, 07:37:08 AM »
It's this simple, burper...
Quote from: burper on December 17, 2006, 05:25:45 PM
i can't read all that meandering drivel don.
I have two suggestions to make to GUI programmers:
Provide better interfacing with FIBS' commands and FIBS' help so that GUI users can better use
all
of FIBS' capabilities and functions. This was jonesy's problem at the beginning of this thread.
No matter the features of your GUI, it should behave to other users
as if it were FIBS
. If you program a FIBS function into your GUI, it should make no difference in behavior (input/output) to other FIBSters who are
not
using your GUI.
--
don
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spielberg
Beginner
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 241
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #11 on:
December 19, 2006, 02:16:33 PM »
Sorry to digress from the thread but:
don - please note burper is a fine programmer himself and I suspect that, as often, you've not recognised teasing. I hope I'm underestimating you there - your summary of two rather obvious guidelines for programmers (viz. do not repeat work already done; stick to standards of communication between different interfaces to the same environment) may well be intended to tease burper by telling him something he's sure to know.
Steve / spielberg
PS whatever happened to zoeboy?
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don
Casual player
Offline
Posts: 377
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #12 on:
December 23, 2006, 07:51:53 AM »
This thread was started by a user who was confused about the actions of his Graphic User Interface (GUI) versus FIBS commands and capabilities. Here's an interesting example on the same subject in which a GUI could
improve
on FIBS documentation....
Today I heard an experienced and frustrated FIBster shout that FIBS only keeps one invite active at a time, that an invite to a second user cancels the first invite, The gist of the shout was that a user should wait a few seconds before issuing another invite. (As a rule of thumb, I try to allow enough time for a "who is user" and a "tell RepBot ask user" before I issue another invite.) Though I thought that most knew this, I also thought it was included in FIBS' documentation. It turns out I was wrong.
From FIBS' help invite:
Quote
DESCRIPTION
The 'invite' command is used to ask other players if they want to play
with you. You can only use this command if you are ready to play (see
'toggle ready'), the other player is ready to play and is not already
playing with someone else. See help on 'who' to find out whom you can
invite. There are three ways to invite other players (see above)
1. you want to start a <number> point match with <name>
2. you want to start a match of unlimited length with <name>
3. you want to resume a saved match with <player>
The first two of the above discard a saved game if <player> accepts the
invitation, but <player> is told that there is a saved match.
Invitations for matches longer than 9 points are limited to players whose
experience is high enough to appear in the rating list. This was
necessary because some new players cheated themselves into the rating list.
SEE ALSO
join, toggle, toggle-ready, who
Obviously FIBS "help invite" does not cover this, so I also checked out the excellent FIBS Client Protocol (CLIP) at
http://www.fibs.com/fibs_interface.html
and found no mention of this well known behavior. I think clients should be aware of the significance or rather potential futility of multiple invites, but it does not seem to be documented anywhere. None of the links to CLIP feedback seem to work, and this is a quirk that GUIs could use to improve their usefulness to users, particularly new users.. A minor point here, and a minor frustration, but FIBS would work better if users knew of this little detail of behavior. GUIs
could
provide the info.
--
don
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socksey
Global Moderator
Advanced
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Gender:
Posts: 1,305
Re: Forced move bug
«
Reply #13 on:
December 23, 2006, 10:31:31 PM »
I made a programmable button in my javafibs for that very problem. Whenever a newbie invites me, and I try to accept, but instead, get the regrettable message that tells me newbie hasn't invited me, I click my button which displays in shouts:
"attention impatient newbies! if you don't give someone time to respond to an invite, your next invite will cancel out the first. remamber that we might be checking out your rep, so please give us time to respond.
))"
The reason I made a button for this is because it happens so very frequently to me.
You're right, don, it would be much nicer if this were explained or incorporated where it should be.
I'm sure veteran Fibbers get tired of my (almost spam) messages in shouts.
socksey
"A person should not promise to give a child something and then not give it, because in that way the child learns to lie." - Babylonian Talmud
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