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FIBS Board backgammon forum > Forum > FIBS Client software > 3DFibs (Moderator: tucsonAZ) > Is GnuBG cheating with the doubling cube?
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Author Topic: Is GnuBG cheating with the doubling cube?  (Read 1899 times)
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styryl
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« on: December 18, 2007, 01:34:20 PM »
This is not a standard - why does GnuBG cheat on the the dice rolls...?

But I am curious - as to how it treats gammons and singles, and I do believe it cheats a little there.
I've attached a couple of screen grabs... in the first, while it could have got a piece off, it chose not to - resigned  for a single game. BUT it hadn't yet born off any pieces! You'll see in the screengrab that up to then we were 1-1 in a 3 game match, doubling cube on 2, and then I won 3-1.  My point is that I had a decent chance of rolling a double, and creating a gammon, but instead it resigns for a single.

Typically, of course, what is good for the gander is NOT good for the goose. I attach screenshot2, where I have also got all my pieces into the homeboard, but have not borne off any. Here it awards itself a gammon to win the match.

Is this just me, or am I missing some logic here?  Dare I say - GnuGB/3dFibs DOES CHEAT...?   Or am I just a newbie who has missed something fundamental?

Thanks for your help.
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« on: December 18, 2007, 01:34:20 PM »


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tucsonAZ
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 09:04:04 PM »
Hi,

In match play, you can't win more points than the length of the match. If your match score + value of the cube is equal to or exceeds the length of the match, the cube is "dead" and gammons are worthless.
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burper
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 02:40:28 AM »
gnubg is a dropper
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styryl
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 11:32:44 PM »
Quote from: tucsonAZ on December 18, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
Hi,

In match play, you can't win more points than the length of the match. If your match score + value of the cube is equal to or exceeds the length of the match, the cube is "dead" and gammons are worthless.


Ok, I can accept that in this case, but gnuBG will still offer a single resignation in a case where if it's reversed it charges a gammon win.
Surely someone else experiences this?
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tucsonAZ
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 01:25:17 AM »
Quote from: styryl on December 19, 2007, 11:32:44 PM
Ok, I can accept that in this case, but gnuBG will still offer a single resignation in a case where if it's reversed it charges a gammon win.
Surely someone else experiences this?

There is a common beginner "faux pas" on fibs where a player will refuse a resignation for a single game that wins the match because the position is a gammon or backgammon.
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styryl
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 03:35:07 AM »
Quote from: tucsonAZ on December 20, 2007, 01:25:17 AM
There is a common beginner "faux pas" on fibs where a player will refuse a resignation for a single game that wins the match because the position is a gammon or backgammon.

ok, thanks for answering again, I do appreciate it, let me  check I understand you correctly: It sounds like you said it's a beginner mistake to reject a single resignation in a situation where they (the beginner) will likely win gammon or backgammon - IF the single win for that game means they win the match.  Is that what you mean?

I may have confused the issue when I said GnuBG "offers" me a resign, but actually it doesn't offer me a resign, it tells me it has resigned. (Please tell me if this is a setup option in 3dfibs)

My original, and to my mind unanswered issue is that when it (3DFIBS/gNUbg) resigns it offers me a single resign, but in the same circumstances it will ask for a gammon resign from me.  I refer to the pictures in my first post again.

Thanks again,
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tucsonAZ
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 05:35:11 AM »
Quote from: styryl on December 20, 2007, 03:35:07 AM

when it (3DFIBS/gNUbg) resigns it offers me a single resign, but in the same circumstances it will ask for a gammon resign from me. 

Thanks again,

However the point still remains that a single, gammon and backgammon resignation are all the same when you are resigning for the match.
To submit a valid claim of cheating, you must show that you were forced to received a single resignation when a gammon or backgammon would have helped you win the match.
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styryl
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2007, 04:16:52 AM »
Quote from: tucsonAZ on December 20, 2007, 05:35:11 AM
However the point still remains that a single, gammon and backgammon resignation are all the same when you are resigning for the match.
To submit a valid claim of cheating, you must show that you were forced to received a single resignation when a gammon or backgammon would have helped you win the match.

Thank you, I am understanding this now.  While I agree with you and retract my cheat claim - I still believe it to be poorly coded - in that it has the appearance of handling this matter differently for the computer and the player. While the change to the overall score result (in the history when "inviting" GnuBG) is limited to the match limit (3, 5 etc) it is still disheartening to see "GnuBG wins the 5 point match 8-1" when it won't repay the favour...  dry

On a similar strain... if playing a five match game, and the computer is up 1-4, why shouldn't I be allowed to double a match? I'm guessing the answer is effectively the same as above, but it still 'feels wrong.'

THanks again, Happy New Year
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socksey
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2007, 06:16:04 AM »
That is the Crawford rule.  The underdog is not allowed to double the first game when the leader arrives at point match.  I may not be explaining this well, but if you win the Crawford match, then you are allowed to double. 

socksey



"I want my children to have all the things I couldn't afford. Then I want to move in with them." - Phyllis Diller
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lewscannon
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2007, 08:53:07 PM »
Quote from: socksey on December 31, 2007, 06:16:04 AM
That is the Crawford rule.  The underdog is not allowed to double the first game when the leader arrives at point match.  I may not be explaining this well, but if you win the Crawford match, then you are allowed to double. 

socksey



"I want my children to have all the things I couldn't afford. Then I want to move in with them." - Phyllis Diller


To take it one step further, if you are losing and survive the Crawford game, you should cube on the first roll of all subsequent games til the match is over.
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socksey
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2007, 11:02:48 PM »
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To take it one step further, if you are losing and survive the Crawford game, you should cube on the first roll of all subsequent games til the match is over.

Absolutely!  Yes 

Hey, lewssssssss.........where are those lunch pics?!   Smiley

socksey



"There will one day spring from the brain of science a machine or force so fearful in its potentialities, so absolutely terrifying, that even man, the fighter, who will dare torture and death in order to inflict torture and death, will be appalled, and so abandon war forever. What man's mind can create, man's character can control." - Thomas Alva Edison, newspaper interview, August 22, 1921
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