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Author Topic: Personal responsibility and FIBS drama  (Read 13829 times)
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inim
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« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2011, 08:25:14 PM »

Oh, and as for inim, I've told him to stfu several times although I respect and admire him for some things, I hate when he rants abuse at my country, shouts news items I didn't come to Fibs to hear, political debate items, and that goes for anyone since he's not quite alone in that arena.  I have desisted in that practice in the future.  (Come to think of it, I don't recall him ever doing any of those things when Patti is present.)  

The way to personalize and sanitize your view on fibs is gag and the villains/friends list. Adding more fine grained filters to fibs clients is the way to go here. Bullying and "STFU-ing" people is not. With my engineering hat I may add that adding better client-side filters to JavaFIBS is high on my TODO. This technical feature should allow to take a lot of drama out of shout, by simply giving users more choices than the very limited villains list offers. It also could help with other "personalized view" issues, such as the perceived "bot invasion display clutter" issue and "Odesys auto-villain-list" feature requests. Technologically all the same thing.

Inim seems to be very happy about the new stricter Fibs policy.  I, on the other hand, find Fibs to be far more boring than in the past.  

Please don't put words into my mouth. We all know what Patti does to people telling her how to run her server, and that would include me if I actually did what you imply. While I am useful as your bogeyman, I can not create a "new, stricter fibs policy". Only Admin can, and obviously does. Sharing Patti's position does neither imply conspiracy nor mind control. Just that I agree with something sombebody else does.

I told you in private tell already (yes, I also do most of my fibs interaction outside shout), but I repeat it publicly. Ending the massive drama and bullying created a void, which will be filled with new personas. People who were disgusted by "old shout" excesses will come back, and completely new characters will add new aspects and topics to shout. Just give it a little time - and room. Good old principle of "horror vacui" applies here as well.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 09:18:40 PM by inim » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2011, 11:01:10 PM »

The way to personalize and sanitize your view on fibs is gag and the villains/friends list. Adding more fine grained filters to fibs clients is the way to go here. Bullying and "STFU-ing" people is not. With my engineering hat I may add that adding better client-side filters to JavaFIBS is high on my TODO. This technical feature should allow to take a lot of drama out of shout, by simply giving users more choices than the very limited villains list offers. It also could help with other "personalized view" issues, such as the perceived "bot invasion display clutter" issue and "Odesys auto-villain-list" feature requests. Technologically all the same thing.

Please don't put words into my mouth. We all know what Patti does to people telling her how to run her server, and that would include me if I actually did what you imply. While I am useful as your bogeyman, I can not create a "new, stricter fibs policy". Only Admin can, and obviously does. Sharing Patti's position does neither imply conspiracy nor mind control. Just that I agree with something sombebody else does.

I did not put words in your mouth, sir, nor did i imply conspiracy/mind control.  I simply implied that you do agree with the stricter policy.   Smiley  Please do not put words in MY mouth.  tyvm.

I told you in private tell already (yes, I also do most of my fibs interaction outside shout), but I repeat it publicly. Ending the massive drama and bullying created a void, which will be filled with new personas. People who were disgusted by "old shout" excesses will come back, and completely new characters will add new aspects and topics to shout. Just give it a little time - and room. Good old principle of "horror vacui" applies here as well.

Yes, you did tell me all that.   dry  I still like all the old abusers who contribute much to Fibs shouts as well.  I think you can use gag just as well as I or anyone else and that shouts should be a free speech area.  However, I also think Patti certainly has earned the right to run Fibs as she sees fit, and I will respect that.

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« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2011, 11:01:10 PM »

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PersianLord
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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2011, 05:39:10 AM »

I wonder whether punishing anti-Semitic rants is included in the new correctional bid that has gained her Royal Assent or not?!
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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2011, 05:57:43 AM »

It's not your job to punish people for rants.
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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2011, 06:02:21 AM »

By the way, some people have complained that this is going to make FIBS no fun for them.

For that I'm truly sorry.  To be precise, I'm sorry that you are unable to enjoy FIBS without spewing vitriol and hatred, bullying other players, and generally making FIBS an unpleasant place for many.  If taking away your "right" to abuse other players means that you can't enjoy FIBS, then by all means go elsewhere.
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PersianLord
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« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2011, 08:19:30 AM »

I didn't say it's my job. I just asked is it included in the 'new stricter policy' package that the people are talking about here or not.

Sometimes taking the cotton out of your ears and putting it into your mouth will definitely help you towards fulfilling your stewardship commitments regarding FIBS.
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« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2011, 08:26:52 AM »

I'm sorry PL, I didn't mean to be unclear.

Yes, it is included because it's not your job to punish people for rants.
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PersianLord
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« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2011, 09:08:25 AM »

Yes, it is included

Good.

Quote
because it's not your job to punish people for rants.

I didn't ask 'why'. Thanks for your eloquent elaboration though.

PL
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« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2011, 04:16:37 PM »

This discussion makes for interesting reading material, and at times a giggle... but will it change anything? I doubt it
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2011, 03:24:27 AM »

You can bet your sweet ass that it's going to change something.  I'll pull the plug on FIBS before I'll let it keep up the way it's been going recently.
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2011, 05:39:26 AM »

 veryhappy veryhappy veryhappy

And I already ran into one person lost many years ago to fibs 'drama', who came back to see if it is better...having had a very positive first toe in the water...they stated they very well might become a regular again!
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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2011, 02:57:44 PM »

If I may just add my comments.

I applaud Patti for her stance on this issue.

When I joined this site, I joined to play backgammon in a friendly environment. I'm not really that interested in chatting in the lobby, or shouts, as they seem to be called, but when I did venture in, it was not a friendly place at all. Too many people with chips on their shoulders and needing somewhere to vent their rubbish.

I think Fibs will be a much better place for newcomers to come and play BG if Patti's more stringent application of the rules takes effect.

If people want to chat, let them chat. If they want to be seen to chat and have their opinions seen in public, let them go to a chat site to spout their vitriole. To me, this is a backgammon site - and a very good one.

Power to Patti thumbsup2
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PersianLord
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« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2011, 06:17:05 PM »

If I may just add my comments.

I applaud Patti for her stance on this issue.

When I joined this site, I joined to play backgammon in a friendly environment. I'm not really that interested in chatting in the lobby, or shouts, as they seem to be called, but when I did venture in, it was not a friendly place at all. Too many people with chips on their shoulders and needing somewhere to vent their rubbish.

I think Fibs will be a much better place for newcomers to come and play BG if Patti's more stringent application of the rules takes effect.

If people want to chat, let them chat. If they want to be seen to chat and have their opinions seen in public, let them go to a chat site to spout their vitriole. To me, this is a backgammon site - and a very good one.

Power to Patti thumbsup2

I got a suggestion for you: use the 'gag' commend and enjoy playing BG in this 'very good' server.

PL
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2011, 12:21:30 AM »

I think Patti has been pretty good at identifying ongoing problems and addressing them.

The only current issue I see with the cleaning up of the server is that at least for one person (I'll leave the name out because that would likely cause a flurry, but if you're often on the server it should be obvious) it has somewhat created an environment where he has been using the scare as a lever to attempt to exert his own policing. From my personal experience, this is creating as much or more 'drama' than there was previously.

Another thing is that a completely free and open environment does have it's merit as well as a controlled one. Although the more thin skinned suffer at an elevated rate in an environment where there are no rules, it did seem to bring out the best in creativity and often seemed to stabilize in modes of real harmony, so the experience was not all bad without rules ...  I tended to appreciate this because it was so rare, seemed like an experiment in freedom, and the rarity therefore seemed valuable even though it was hard to bear at times. So in that sense it seems sad that fibs appears to be tightening up, but if we can get past the recent issues of people creating more drama through 'justified acts' and personal policing, it will likely be a nicer environment all together.

I do however think that the higher the level of policy you are trying to achieve, the more effort needs to be exerted to sustain it, so, If Patti experiences this in action, and finds her workload is ever increasing because of interpersonal problems, I would hope that she doesn't get overwhelmed and pull the plug, but rather realize that there is always the option that we can go back to a  'free' environment and she can step back and let everyone go nuts until it stabilizes.

Either way FIBS a nice community, with or without the drama. I see most of the issues as lying more within the individuals who use the server rather than the server policy itself, so any policy change that is not 'incentive based' seems somewhat futile in my eyes.
 
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« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2011, 12:25:22 AM »

A big problem with the former wild west atmosphere is that it was extremely unwelcoming to newcomers.  I've had more than one person tell me that they left due to the abusive environment of shouts.
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diane
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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2011, 02:13:34 AM »


Another thing is that a completely free and open environment does have it's merit as well as a controlled one. Although the more thin skinned suffer at an elevated rate in an environment where there are no rules, it did seem to bring out the best in creativity and often seemed to stabilize in modes of real harmony,

let everyone go nuts until it stabilizes.

The only 'stability' it ever had was those who could be the nastiest and most vile, and had unlimited time to sit around saying the same things over and over and over, got their own way...and anyone nice left, fairly quickly.
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PersianLord
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2011, 04:49:40 AM »

I think Patti has been pretty good at identifying ongoing problems and addressing them.

The only current issue I see with the cleaning up of the server is that at least for one person (I'll leave the name out because that would likely cause a flurry, but if you're often on the server it should be obvious) it has somewhat created an environment where he has been using the scare as a lever to attempt to exert his own policing. From my personal experience, this is creating as much or more 'drama' than there was previously.

Another thing is that a completely free and open environment does have it's merit as well as a controlled one. Although the more thin skinned suffer at an elevated rate in an environment where there are no rules, it did seem to bring out the best in creativity and often seemed to stabilize in modes of real harmony, so the experience was not all bad without rules ...  I tended to appreciate this because it was so rare, seemed like an experiment in freedom, and the rarity therefore seemed valuable even though it was hard to bear at times. So in that sense it seems sad that fibs appears to be tightening up, but if we can get past the recent issues of people creating more drama through 'justified acts' and personal policing, it will likely be a nicer environment all together.

I do however think that the higher the level of policy you are trying to achieve, the more effort needs to be exerted to sustain it, so, If Patti experiences this in action, and finds her workload is ever increasing because of interpersonal problems, I would hope that she doesn't get overwhelmed and pull the plug, but rather realize that there is always the option that we can go back to a  'free' environment and she can step back and let everyone go nuts until it stabilizes.

Either way FIBS a nice community, with or without the drama. I see most of the issues as lying more within the individuals who use the server rather than the server policy itself, so any policy change that is not 'incentive based' seems somewhat futile in my eyes.
 

Nice point, donz.

Ooga Booga,

PL
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« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2011, 08:33:29 AM »

The free environment does have merit as donzaemon points out. However, I think that it is necessary to distinguish between freely expressing a point of view, always good and freely saying what you like in order to hurt and upset another human being, always bad.
There are fibsters whose views and language I find repugnant, for them the gag/blind/villain options work fine. There are also fibsters who set out to annoy others, with a range of harrassment techniques that will be familiar to all. For them g/b/v doesn't work so well, because to let people attack you or others without challenging their behaviour is not tolerable. You can't allow repeated lies, slanders and distortions to circulate for example, nor can bullying go unchallenged. IRL such behaviour risks sanctions designed to protect the individual, but in their absence on fibs, shouts can be and often has been a bullies' playground.
Fibs shouts is still a place where one can express views of any colour, but the loss of the freedom to jeer at, wind up, insult and slander other users is no loss. There will be those who mourn the passing of the bear pit, but for every one who does it's my guess there will be ten who applaud its demise. I am one of them.
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« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2011, 12:35:31 PM »

Introducing the JLF - The Justice League of Fibsters

The JLF are an international group of fibs users who have dedicated themselves to making fibs a more enjoyable place. We have existed for over one year during which we have gathered information on the troublemakers of fibs. We have evaluated shouts and interviews conducted with the victims (most of which didn't know they were being interviewed). The results give a clear, unbiased panorama of the worst offenders, regarding bullying, racism, sexism, obnoxiousness and other issues. The names on this list will come as no surprise to most.

N******
d*******
P*******
r********
v********
z********
t*******
s********
Z********
i********

There is always at least one of the JLF logged on. We will report any and all attempts at abuse to Patti.

You will not hear from us again, except in the form of affirmative action by Patti.

The offenders know why they are on the list.

It's tongue-biting time.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 11:23:27 AM by stog » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2011, 02:02:21 PM »

If it is a joke, the point of it isn't clear.
If it isn't a joke then it should be removed, partly because of its anonymity, partly because it purports to speak for an unnamed group. Every other poster in this thread has the balls to add their nick to their post and speak for themselves.
Contemptible and as is probably fairly clear I hold no brief for anybody on the list.
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