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Offline Tomawaky

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« on: May 28, 2004, 09:30:19 PM »
:thumbsup2:  Hello

The new regular Online Real Time Tourney is coming :jump2:



This new kind of event will be played every Tuesday and 2 Sundays, around 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM GMT .

burper, diane, gogogiz, mano and Tomawaky will be the TDs of these tournaments.

It is very similar to the already well known Fridays3, but it is scheduled at a different time and one more important thing to say is that you will play for you personnaly and for your own's country. (So you will be asked for your country if you join this event)

To have some more information on it. Clic Help icon =>

So if you want to take part in this First Event, join us on tuesday 1st of june 7:30 PM GMT to sign up. The tourney will start at 8:00 PM GMT

see u soon :bye:

I'm open to any suggestion or good idea.
Feel free to post below any questions or any comments.
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

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« on: May 28, 2004, 09:30:19 PM »

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 09:29:53 PM »

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2004, 09:00:09 PM »
Is there any TD to host other tourneys at different time ?
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2004, 06:03:55 AM »
Thanks Tom,

I think the above is as a result of an e-mail i sent Tomawaky suggesting 4 or 5 am in Australia was a tough appointment to meet on a regular basis  :(  

I'm very keen to participate in this great idea and note no Australians took part in the first running.  Would any Td consider running some of the "Bagolympic" sessions at say 15:00 GMT as with the Friday 3's, or even earlier ? Pweeezzee ?? This would make it achievable here  :)

I'll understand if it's not possible but thought there no harm in asking   ;)  Besides i had to make my first post sometime  :D  

 
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2004, 06:03:55 AM »

Offline burper

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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2004, 10:21:53 PM »
There is a big problem here.

With a big tournament, we need to be excrutiatingly detailed.

Time is soooo abstract. Let's not give times in GMT, or any other timezone. Instead, let's say something like "GMT by *THIS* watch".

Why this hurt me/us:
So, when I went to run the Sunday tourney, I went to the bagolympic site to make sure I was doing everything right.
Let me double-check: that is this: http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/bagolympic.htm, correct?

Now I go to check the GMT time schedule, and use the watch/clock you provide on that page, which is http://www.speaking-clock.com/, correct? As it turns out, it is off by an hour, unless I am somehow reading it incorrectly. Several people agreed with me. Of course there was a lengthy confusing discussion about GMT vs. UTC, how FIBS time is off, daylight savings, london time, what time Tomawaky used last time, British summer time.....AARRGHGHGHGHGH!

I had 16 people signed up and ready to play. I had to make a decision. I went with the watch you gave me! Of course a couple people showed up later asking why the hell I started early, but it was either piss them off or the 16.

I'm not sure how to prevent this. Maybe http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ is better? I think you need to say such and such a time BY THIS WATCH. Or something. A couple people are now upset with me :(

Oh well, live and learn. Did I make the wrong decision? Any better ideas?

Offline burper

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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2004, 10:48:29 PM »
Tourney 687:

Backwoods: Finland: WON round 2, round 3, 4: POINTS: 3 + 3
burper: USA: out in round 2, points: 0
CornCob  Germany: out in round 2, points: 0
dalaras: Greece: out in R2, points: 0
dAnel: germany: out in round 2, points: 0
DirtyHarryII: out in round 1, points: 0
elmroth: Sweden: out in round 2, points: 0
gogogiz great britain: won round 2, out in round 3: POINTS: 1
Hondo: USA: WON R1, out in round 2: POINTS: 1
juanz  Spain: WON 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
makalu: Switzerland: out in round 2, points: 0
MateoZ  Bolivia: WON round 2, round 3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
Mort: WON 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
nocivo_para_la_salud: country? out in round 2, points: 0
resh_lakish: Isreal, won round 2, lost in round 3,  POINTS: 1
socksey says: usa: WON 2,3,4,  POINTS: 3 + 5
sticks: usa: out in round 1, points: 0
wyzzz: USA: WON round 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2


points:
socksey 8, Backwoods 6, wyzzz, Mort, MateoZ, juanz with 2 each, resh_lakish, Hondo and gogogiz with 1 each

** You tell TourneyBot: matches all tourney 687
>
TourneyBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #687:
>
TourneyBot says: T687R1M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. DirtyHarryII (1659) 5-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R1M2 (3-pt): Hondo (1565) def. sticks (1433) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. dAnel (1634) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M2 (3-pt): juanz (1647) def. CornCob (1744) 3-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M3 (3-pt): gogogiz (1646) def. burper (1720) 3-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M4 (3-pt): MateoZ (1604) def. nocivo_para_la_salud (1480)
 4-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M5 (3-pt): resh_lakish (1539) def. elmroth (1875) 5-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M6 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. makalu (1279) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M7 (3-pt): Mort (1646) def. dalaras (1771) 4-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M8 (3-pt): wyzzz (1499) def. Hondo (1565) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. juanz (1647) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M2 (3-pt): MateoZ (1604) def. gogogiz (1646) 4-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M3 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. resh_lakish (1539) 6-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M4 (3-pt): Mort (1646) def. wyzzz (1499) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R4M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. MateoZ (1604) 1-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R4M2 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. Mort (1646) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R5M1 (5-pt): socksey (1613) def. Backwoods (1731) 5-3

Offline mano

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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2004, 10:55:10 PM »
i think the more easy may to use fibstime ( time in fibs command line)
even fibs time is not the good one it's a time that everyfibster can check and rely on ....
 

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2004, 11:35:22 PM »
I'm with Mano, the only time used should be what it says when you type "time" whilst logged into fibs. :yes:  This seems obvious to me as a solid , universal point of reference.

Still keen for thoughts re : staggering of Bagolympics session times .......  :huh:  
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2004, 11:35:22 PM »

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2004, 06:18:51 AM »
Very sorry burper for the confusion.

You are absolutly right and I will change the link to the http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ page.

I don't think that Fibs Time is correct cause It's never up to date
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2004, 06:53:28 AM »
have made correction for the 3 first burper tell me if I am wrong ?

wyzzz: USA: WON round 2, out in 3, POINTS: 1
socksey says: usa: WON 1,2,3,4,5 POINTS: 5 + 3
juanz Spain: WON 2, out in 3, POINTS: 1

Backwoods: Finland: WON round 2, 3, 4: POINTS: 3 + 1
gogogiz great britain: won round 2, out in round 3: POINTS: 1
Hondo: USA: WON R1, out in round 2: POINTS: 1
MateoZ Bolivia: WON round 2, round 3, out in 4, POINTS: 2
Mort: WON 2,3, out in 4, POINTS: 2
resh_lakish: Isreal, won round 2, lost in round 3, POINTS: 1
 
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2004, 07:44:01 PM »
Have choose these parameters when hosting my first Bagolympic session in tourney 629 :

rename 629 BAGOLYMPIC
maxplayers 32 tourney 629
matchlen normal 3 tourney 629
matchlen finals 5 tourney 629
Description: Standard single elimination tourney. Tuesday 1st june 08:00 PM GMT. You have to announce your country. More info at http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/Bagolympic.htm

If you want to use it for yours
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 02:30:12 AM »
tap tap tap..... hello, does this mike work ? tap tap........

Hi,

I just wanted to explore options for the Bagolympics, specifically the starting times but also if i may the format ?

First can i say i appreciate i should have spoken up prior to it's commencement and apologise for this but have reasons of timing i wont bore you with.  Sufficed to say, given it looks like continuing for perhaps years and is such a great idea i still felt it worth my while commenting on it now.

So,  ........   given it is designed as a global event can i suggest staggering the session times around the clock , say 00:00 ,  06:00 ,  12:00  &  18:00 (GMT or whichever universal time clock is settled on) to canvas all time zones and give ALL coutries a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions.  As i mentioned in an earlier post, regular  placement in the wee-small hours for some countries is difficult to attend regularly if at all.

A simpler option ??........every Sunday is say 8 Am  .. and every Tuesday is 8 Pm .

I understand it is up to TD's (god bless 'em  :D  ) ability to make it at certain times but surely this is not insurmountable ? Or are you all from the same time zone ?   If so perhaps we could recruit one or two specifically for the purpose of Bagolympics who live on the other side of the world and are willing and able.

(This would be seem appropriate time to mention my apprecitaion for those who have chosen to be TD's for the benefit of others and my regret at not doing it myself. My decision not to is based on..... my working week is a 24/7 rotating roster that removes ANY consistency from week to week. Much of my bg play is done AT work  :P  and there i am at risk of HAVING to leave at any moment. Basically rendering me unreliable for regular appointments  :cry2:  That said i am more than willing to help in any way i can outside of these limitations and try to contribute to the amazing efforts y'all have put in so far !  Read : gogo sox diane Tom burp brizzy mano webr alley kari houtx :kiss: , you get the idea :) )

Final minor point on start times, why are some at 8PM and some 9PM ? isn't the time issue confusing enough without adding that little hurdle ?  :blink:

So that's how i feel about start times for a global event :)

Now i will mention my ideas on the format, for the record :)

I fear the results over time will prove a significant weighting for those countries with the most fibsters (read US :) )  You may have seen other competitions such as "World Idol" and the "Eurovision Song Contest" that weight the voting system according to population in the relevant country. I don't suggest we do that but do point out that this outcome should be expected.

You can see this trend has already begun after just a few session so far. This takes away some of the competative edge for the smaller countries (read Australia :) plus countless others on fibs  :D ) .  It then becomes mostly an individual event in the long run (not a bad thing but clearly not the intent of the Tourney :) .

To alleiviate this trend and it's consequences  i fear the format would have to be radically changed  :wacko:         and i concede this would be a much more significant decision at this stage, than just changing the session times.

 Sooooo........... I would like to open this topic up for further discussion for the long term :)  as well as the time issue  ;)

My initial ideas would involve both  tourneybot AND a team league situation !!   A Indivual>Country Qualification TourneyBot and then a Global Team FibsLeague Tourney perhaps ??????   These could repeat throughout the year in quarterly intervals , perhaps ?????? Many options......

I've had minor chats/shouts on the subject so far but clearly this is the appropriate forum  B)


What do you think please ?


<<<<passes the mike  :)


 
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 02:30:12 AM »

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 04:25:07 AM »
PS :


I didn't mention how much I Luuuuuv tourneys but most of all .........


How could i forget PORT !!!!        :beerdrinkers:


.
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 07:05:41 AM »
> can i suggest staggering the session times around the clock

No problem for me give me TD.

> why are some at 8PM and some 9PM

First. As you ask upper, "give everybody a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions". And when I post a poll on your prefered time these were the most appreciate hours.

Second. TD availaibility..... no more  :rolleyes:

> I fear the results over time will prove a significant weighting for those countries with the most fibsters

Except for USA and the planning which does not make favorite some country, I think that the distribution of the players by country must be balanced enough !

But with USA it's always the same problem, just look the global result of Olympic game ! And you will see USA ahead.

I have think about average, but it can be circumvented easily.

Some speak about Europe, but it will become a match Europe-USA  :tears:

>My initial ideas would involve both tourneybot AND a team league situation

That a good idea, and many people are interested in a country team competition, but I don't personnaly want to manage it.
Nevertheless, the actual Bagolympic could be a first step to qualify the better players for a country. Just clic on the flag and you will find a country ranking.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2004, 07:06:22 AM by Tomawaky »
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Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2004, 02:18:11 AM »
Thanks again Tomawaky,

Quote
No problem for me give me TD.


Can Any TD do 8 AM every Sunday or Tuesday please ?

Quote
First. As you ask upper, "give everybody a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions". And when I post a poll on your prefered time these were the most appreciate hours.


I'm sorry i missed the poll  :(  but one hour difference doesn't seem to me to allow "everyone"  a chance...........


Quote
But with USA it's always the same problem, just look the global result of Olympic game ! And you will see USA ahead.


Ahhhhhh !

The US usually wins the olympics because they have a larger population base to draw talent from AND the prosperity to provide elite training.

The BIG point here is they are only allowed to enter as many athletes in any one event as any other nation on earth !  

More often than not they win that because of the points above but it's NOT because they overrun the events with entries.  They are IN more events but have EQUAL number of entries !! This lies at the heart of my point re: Bagolympics , so thanks for mentioning it :)  It is why the current fomat is so flawed !   if you think of each country that participates on Fibs as an individual you can see that nearly all of them are being "done over" by the two Big kids (US & GB) . I think the goal for this wonderful idea of a tourney , as truely global as Fibs is, should be to place ALL on a level playing field and THEN compete.


Quote
That a good idea, and many people are interested in a country team competition, but I don't personnaly want to manage it.



I can manage  anything (collate, post, advertise etc), but for reasons given earlier......I cant run  the tourneys.  Again calling any TD's.......... :P





 
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2004, 06:44:13 AM »
Quote
The BIG point here is they are only allowed to enter as many athletes in any one event as any other nation on earth ! 

Yes but what is the max number that we can accept for one country ? :rolleyes:
That is the point.
The better thing would be certainly to have an average count in case of having the numbers of players for a country greater than this max number and a sum in other case !
But I am not sur if it's easy to do with one only SQL command ! <_<

Quote
by the two Big kids (US & GB)
GB is not as BIG as you said. They just have done big tourneys.

To let you know the fact. In the last session, I succed to motivate 4 or 5 Frenchies and all of them (me include) have lost in the first round  :tears:  (2 players from australia were here)

I am agree that US players are certainly too many but not for others countries. It's up to us to motivate other players from our country to take part.
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2004, 06:44:13 AM »

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2004, 08:16:17 AM »
Thanks for replying again Toma'.

I don't mean to banter over minor points too much sorry, I'm more concerned with the Macro / long term view which i believe is assured under the current format. ie: no contest ! USA by as far as you like.  This i feel defeats the purpose of "competition".  To this end i would love to hear what others thought also ???? tap tap tap........

Quote
Yes but what is the max number that we can accept for one country ?  that is the point.


I dont mind what the maximum is, 3, 6, 9 ?? teams of three in three divisions ?? the options are endless  and i wont presume to tell anyone what it should be, my point remains that it should be the same for everyone before we start . At the moment it is anything but an even playing field.

Quote
The better thing would be certainly to have an average count in case of having the numbers of players for a country greater than this max number and a sum in other case !But I am not sur if it's easy to do with one only SQL command


I'm sorry  :wacko: I dont understand this one. I think i get you with the averaging down but dont know what SQL is :( sorry.   I'm a fan of the keep it simple saying  ;) so again i'd lean to a qualifyer per country and then a Global challange  :lol:

Quote
It's up to us to motivate other players from our country to take part.


Agreed and i'm keen to motivate others and have already done so with Aussie fibsleaguers but this brings me back to the timeing issue.

For a global concept, having only one time for regular sessions (particularly when that time equates to 5am local) does not encourage the whole world  to participate  :unsure:

Thanks for listening  :rolleyes:

 
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Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2004, 02:15:10 PM »
PS :


I just looked at the Bagolympics table utilising..........

"Tomawaky"
Quote
Just clic on the flag and you will find a country ranking

 

Thoughts ;    :rolleyes:


1) Brilliant !!       fibster / by / country   ranking !!! :yes: !!!    :agree:

    Has fantastic potential.     Apart from the country search on fibsleague i haven't seen anything like it done before  :D GW Tomawaky  :beer:




2) In early stages of current format number of players scoring / by /   country ...........  listed in order of total score so far is,

    usa  -  10
    great britain    -   4
    sweden - 1
    spain - 1
    finland - 1
    isreal - 2
    germany - 3
    australia  - 1
    denmark - 1
    bolivia  -  1
    belgium  - 1
    france  -  1


For me QED !  Game over !      

That is, this progression of total score will continue as long as this format remains  <_<   It is merely a numbers game now not a competition.  Seems a shame when it really is an impressive list of countries so far  :)

It also helped me understand your comment about averaging down and sums Toma' but i still don't know what a SQL is  ;)   I dont think that would work here personally but would be willing to try any change of format  :yes:

Ok I think I've made my point lol :)  Will sing now  :D



         
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Offline burper

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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2004, 04:05:50 PM »
How about 2 "batting averages" per country: normal match and final match?
Everytime you play a normal match, it is an "at-bat" for your country. If you make it to the finals, you have earned the right to represent your country by taking an "at-bat" in the finals.
For people to understand the data better, perhaps a third column showing the number of at-bats is needed.
And we can lose the baseball theme, I just wanted to use a familiar metaphor, since most of the participants are from a baseball playing country ;)
We have all the data, so changing the scoring should be okay to do, but it should be done soon!

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2004, 04:10:28 PM »
Quote
2) In early stages of current format number of players scoring / by /   country ...........  listed in order of total score so far is,

    usa  -  10
    great britain    -   4
    sweden - 1
    spain - 1
    finland - 1
    isreal - 2
    germany - 3
    australia  - 1
    denmark - 1
    bolivia  -  1
    belgium  - 1
    france  -  1

Remember that it is a list of player who earned points but player who subscribe and lost in first round are not listed. So if 8 Aussies have signed up and lost, you would not be able to see them.  B)

It's maybe better to add players with 0 Pt ?

Quote
what a SQL is

It's just a Language to retrieve data from a database
 
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