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Author Topic: BAGOLYMPIC  (Read 21202 times)
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Tomawaky
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« on: May 28, 2004, 08:30:19 PM »

thumbsup2  Hello

The new regular Online Real Time Tourney is coming :jump2:



This new kind of event will be played every Tuesday and 2 Sundays, around 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM GMT .

burper, diane, gogogiz, mano and Tomawaky will be the TDs of these tournaments.

It is very similar to the already well known Fridays3, but it is scheduled at a different time and one more important thing to say is that you will play for you personnaly and for your own's country. (So you will be asked for your country if you join this event)

To have some more information on it. Clic Help icon =>

So if you want to take part in this First Event, join us on tuesday 1st of june 7:30 PM GMT to sign up. The tourney will start at 8:00 PM GMT

see u soon :bye:

I'm open to any suggestion or good idea.
Feel free to post below any questions or any comments.
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
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« on: May 28, 2004, 08:30:19 PM »

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 08:29:53 PM »

Here are the personnal results of the first session

Here are the country results.
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 08:29:53 PM »

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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2004, 08:00:09 PM »

Is there any TD to host other tourneys at different time ?
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2004, 05:03:55 AM »

Thanks Tom,

I think the above is as a result of an e-mail i sent Tomawaky suggesting 4 or 5 am in Australia was a tough appointment to meet on a regular basis  Sad  

I'm very keen to participate in this great idea and note no Australians took part in the first running.  Would any Td consider running some of the "Bagolympic" sessions at say 15:00 GMT as with the Friday 3's, or even earlier ? Pweeezzee ?? This would make it achievable here  Smiley

I'll understand if it's not possible but thought there no harm in asking   Wink  Besides i had to make my first post sometime  Cheesy  

 
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2004, 05:03:55 AM »

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burper
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2004, 09:21:53 PM »

There is a big problem here.

With a big tournament, we need to be excrutiatingly detailed.

Time is soooo abstract. Let's not give times in GMT, or any other timezone. Instead, let's say something like "GMT by *THIS* watch".

Why this hurt me/us:
So, when I went to run the Sunday tourney, I went to the bagolympic site to make sure I was doing everything right.
Let me double-check: that is this: http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/bagolympic.htm, correct?

Now I go to check the GMT time schedule, and use the watch/clock you provide on that page, which is http://www.speaking-clock.com/, correct? As it turns out, it is off by an hour, unless I am somehow reading it incorrectly. Several people agreed with me. Of course there was a lengthy confusing discussion about GMT vs. UTC, how FIBS time is off, daylight savings, london time, what time Tomawaky used last time, British summer time.....AARRGHGHGHGHGH!

I had 16 people signed up and ready to play. I had to make a decision. I went with the watch you gave me! Of course a couple people showed up later asking why the hell I started early, but it was either piss them off or the 16.

I'm not sure how to prevent this. Maybe http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ is better? I think you need to say such and such a time BY THIS WATCH. Or something. A couple people are now upset with me Sad

Oh well, live and learn. Did I make the wrong decision? Any better ideas?
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burper
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2004, 09:48:29 PM »

Tourney 687:

Backwoods: Finland: WON round 2, round 3, 4: POINTS: 3 + 3
burper: USA: out in round 2, points: 0
CornCob  Germany: out in round 2, points: 0
dalaras: Greece: out in R2, points: 0
dAnel: germany: out in round 2, points: 0
DirtyHarryII: out in round 1, points: 0
elmroth: Sweden: out in round 2, points: 0
gogogiz great britain: won round 2, out in round 3: POINTS: 1
Hondo: USA: WON R1, out in round 2: POINTS: 1
juanz  Spain: WON 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
makalu: Switzerland: out in round 2, points: 0
MateoZ  Bolivia: WON round 2, round 3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
Mort: WON 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2
nocivo_para_la_salud: country? out in round 2, points: 0
resh_lakish: Isreal, won round 2, lost in round 3,  POINTS: 1
socksey says: usa: WON 2,3,4,  POINTS: 3 + 5
sticks: usa: out in round 1, points: 0
wyzzz: USA: WON round 2,3, out in 4,  POINTS: 2


points:
socksey 8, Backwoods 6, wyzzz, Mort, MateoZ, juanz with 2 each, resh_lakish, Hondo and gogogiz with 1 each

** You tell TourneyBot: matches all tourney 687
>
TourneyBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #687:
>
TourneyBot says: T687R1M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. DirtyHarryII (1659) 5-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R1M2 (3-pt): Hondo (1565) def. sticks (1433) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. dAnel (1634) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M2 (3-pt): juanz (1647) def. CornCob (1744) 3-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M3 (3-pt): gogogiz (1646) def. burper (1720) 3-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M4 (3-pt): MateoZ (1604) def. nocivo_para_la_salud (1480)
 4-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M5 (3-pt): resh_lakish (1539) def. elmroth (1875) 5-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M6 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. makalu (1279) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M7 (3-pt): Mort (1646) def. dalaras (1771) 4-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R2M8 (3-pt): wyzzz (1499) def. Hondo (1565) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. juanz (1647) 3-2
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M2 (3-pt): MateoZ (1604) def. gogogiz (1646) 4-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M3 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. resh_lakish (1539) 6-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R3M4 (3-pt): Mort (1646) def. wyzzz (1499) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R4M1 (3-pt): socksey (1613) def. MateoZ (1604) 1-0
>
TourneyBot says: T687R4M2 (3-pt): Backwoods (1731) def. Mort (1646) 3-1
>
TourneyBot says: T687R5M1 (5-pt): socksey (1613) def. Backwoods (1731) 5-3
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mano
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2004, 09:55:10 PM »

i think the more easy may to use fibstime ( time in fibs command line)
even fibs time is not the good one it's a time that everyfibster can check and rely on ....
 
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2004, 10:35:22 PM »

I'm with Mano, the only time used should be what it says when you type "time" whilst logged into fibs. Yes  This seems obvious to me as a solid , universal point of reference.

Still keen for thoughts re : staggering of Bagolympics session times .......  huh  
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2004, 10:35:22 PM »

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Tomawaky
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2004, 05:18:51 AM »

Very sorry burper for the confusion.

You are absolutly right and I will change the link to the http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ page.

I don't think that Fibs Time is correct cause It's never up to date
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2004, 05:53:28 AM »

have made correction for the 3 first burper tell me if I am wrong ?

wyzzz: USA: WON round 2, out in 3, POINTS: 1
socksey says: usa: WON 1,2,3,4,5 POINTS: 5 + 3
juanz Spain: WON 2, out in 3, POINTS: 1

Backwoods: Finland: WON round 2, 3, 4: POINTS: 3 + 1
gogogiz great britain: won round 2, out in round 3: POINTS: 1
Hondo: USA: WON R1, out in round 2: POINTS: 1
MateoZ Bolivia: WON round 2, round 3, out in 4, POINTS: 2
Mort: WON 2,3, out in 4, POINTS: 2
resh_lakish: Isreal, won round 2, lost in round 3, POINTS: 1
 
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2004, 06:44:01 PM »

Have choose these parameters when hosting my first Bagolympic session in tourney 629 :

rename 629 BAGOLYMPIC
maxplayers 32 tourney 629
matchlen normal 3 tourney 629
matchlen finals 5 tourney 629
Description: Standard single elimination tourney. Tuesday 1st june 08:00 PM GMT. You have to announce your country. More info at http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/Bagolympic.htm

If you want to use it for yours
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 01:30:12 AM »

tap tap tap..... hello, does this mike work ? tap tap........

Hi,

I just wanted to explore options for the Bagolympics, specifically the starting times but also if i may the format ?

First can i say i appreciate i should have spoken up prior to it's commencement and apologise for this but have reasons of timing i wont bore you with.  Sufficed to say, given it looks like continuing for perhaps years and is such a great idea i still felt it worth my while commenting on it now.

So,  ........   given it is designed as a global event can i suggest staggering the session times around the clock , say 00:00 ,  06:00 ,  12:00  &  18:00 (GMT or whichever universal time clock is settled on) to canvas all time zones and give ALL coutries a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions.  As i mentioned in an earlier post, regular  placement in the wee-small hours for some countries is difficult to attend regularly if at all.

A simpler option ??........every Sunday is say 8 Am  .. and every Tuesday is 8 Pm .

I understand it is up to TD's (god bless 'em  Cheesy  ) ability to make it at certain times but surely this is not insurmountable ? Or are you all from the same time zone ?   If so perhaps we could recruit one or two specifically for the purpose of Bagolympics who live on the other side of the world and are willing and able.

(This would be seem appropriate time to mention my apprecitaion for those who have chosen to be TD's for the benefit of others and my regret at not doing it myself. My decision not to is based on..... my working week is a 24/7 rotating roster that removes ANY consistency from week to week. Much of my bg play is done AT work  Tongue  and there i am at risk of HAVING to leave at any moment. Basically rendering me unreliable for regular appointments  cry2  That said i am more than willing to help in any way i can outside of these limitations and try to contribute to the amazing efforts y'all have put in so far !  Read : gogo sox diane Tom burp brizzy mano webr alley kari houtx :kiss: , you get the idea Smiley )

Final minor point on start times, why are some at 8PM and some 9PM ? isn't the time issue confusing enough without adding that little hurdle ?  blink

So that's how i feel about start times for a global event Smiley

Now i will mention my ideas on the format, for the record Smiley

I fear the results over time will prove a significant weighting for those countries with the most fibsters (read US Smiley )  You may have seen other competitions such as "World Idol" and the "Eurovision Song Contest" that weight the voting system according to population in the relevant country. I don't suggest we do that but do point out that this outcome should be expected.

You can see this trend has already begun after just a few session so far. This takes away some of the competative edge for the smaller countries (read Australia Smiley plus countless others on fibs  Cheesy ) .  It then becomes mostly an individual event in the long run (not a bad thing but clearly not the intent of the Tourney Smiley .

To alleiviate this trend and it's consequences  i fear the format would have to be radically changed  wacko         and i concede this would be a much more significant decision at this stage, than just changing the session times.

 Sooooo........... I would like to open this topic up for further discussion for the long term Smiley  as well as the time issue  Wink

My initial ideas would involve both  tourneybot AND a team league situation !!   A Indivual>Country Qualification TourneyBot and then a Global Team FibsLeague Tourney perhaps Huh?Huh?   These could repeat throughout the year in quarterly intervals , perhaps Huh?Huh? Many options......

I've had minor chats/shouts on the subject so far but clearly this is the appropriate forum  cool


What do you think please ?


<<<<passes the mike  Smiley


 
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 01:30:12 AM »

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EddieVedd
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 03:25:07 AM »

PS :


I didn't mention how much I Luuuuuv tourneys but most of all .........


How could i forget PORT !!!!        beerdrinkers


.
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 06:05:41 AM »

> can i suggest staggering the session times around the clock

No problem for me give me TD.

> why are some at 8PM and some 9PM

First. As you ask upper, "give everybody a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions". And when I post a poll on your prefered time these were the most appreciate hours.

Second. TD availaibility..... no more  rolleyes

> I fear the results over time will prove a significant weighting for those countries with the most fibsters

Except for USA and the planning which does not make favorite some country, I think that the distribution of the players by country must be balanced enough !

But with USA it's always the same problem, just look the global result of Olympic game ! And you will see USA ahead.

I have think about average, but it can be circumvented easily.

Some speak about Europe, but it will become a match Europe-USA  Tears

>My initial ideas would involve both tourneybot AND a team league situation

That a good idea, and many people are interested in a country team competition, but I don't personnaly want to manage it.
Nevertheless, the actual Bagolympic could be a first step to qualify the better players for a country. Just clic on the flag and you will find a country ranking.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2004, 06:06:22 AM by Tomawaky » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2004, 01:18:11 AM »

Thanks again Tomawaky,

Quote
No problem for me give me TD.


Can Any TD do 8 AM every Sunday or Tuesday please ?

Quote
First. As you ask upper, "give everybody a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions". And when I post a poll on your prefered time these were the most appreciate hours.


I'm sorry i missed the poll  Sad  but one hour difference doesn't seem to me to allow "everyone"  a chance...........


Quote
But with USA it's always the same problem, just look the global result of Olympic game ! And you will see USA ahead.


Ahhhhhh !

The US usually wins the olympics because they have a larger population base to draw talent from AND the prosperity to provide elite training.

The BIG point here is they are only allowed to enter as many athletes in any one event as any other nation on earth !  

More often than not they win that because of the points above but it's NOT because they overrun the events with entries.  They are IN more events but have EQUAL number of entries !! This lies at the heart of my point re: Bagolympics , so thanks for mentioning it Smiley  It is why the current fomat is so flawed !   if you think of each country that participates on Fibs as an individual you can see that nearly all of them are being "done over" by the two Big kids (US & GB) . I think the goal for this wonderful idea of a tourney , as truely global as Fibs is, should be to place ALL on a level playing field and THEN compete.


Quote
That a good idea, and many people are interested in a country team competition, but I don't personnaly want to manage it.



I can manage  anything (collate, post, advertise etc), but for reasons given earlier......I cant run  the tourneys.  Again calling any TD's.......... Tongue





 
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2004, 05:44:13 AM »

Quote
The BIG point here is they are only allowed to enter as many athletes in any one event as any other nation on earth ! 

Yes but what is the max number that we can accept for one country ? rolleyes
That is the point.
The better thing would be certainly to have an average count in case of having the numbers of players for a country greater than this max number and a sum in other case !
But I am not sur if it's easy to do with one only SQL command ! <_<

Quote
by the two Big kids (US & GB)
GB is not as BIG as you said. They just have done big tourneys.

To let you know the fact. In the last session, I succed to motivate 4 or 5 Frenchies and all of them (me include) have lost in the first round  Tears  (2 players from australia were here)

I am agree that US players are certainly too many but not for others countries. It's up to us to motivate other players from our country to take part.
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2004, 05:44:13 AM »

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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2004, 07:16:17 AM »

Thanks for replying again Toma'.

I don't mean to banter over minor points too much sorry, I'm more concerned with the Macro / long term view which i believe is assured under the current format. ie: no contest ! USA by as far as you like.  This i feel defeats the purpose of "competition".  To this end i would love to hear what others thought also Huh?? tap tap tap........

Quote
Yes but what is the max number that we can accept for one country ?  that is the point.


I dont mind what the maximum is, 3, 6, 9 ?? teams of three in three divisions ?? the options are endless  and i wont presume to tell anyone what it should be, my point remains that it should be the same for everyone before we start . At the moment it is anything but an even playing field.

Quote
The better thing would be certainly to have an average count in case of having the numbers of players for a country greater than this max number and a sum in other case !But I am not sur if it's easy to do with one only SQL command


I'm sorry  wacko I dont understand this one. I think i get you with the averaging down but dont know what SQL is Sad sorry.   I'm a fan of the keep it simple saying  Wink so again i'd lean to a qualifyer per country and then a Global challange  24

Quote
It's up to us to motivate other players from our country to take part.


Agreed and i'm keen to motivate others and have already done so with Aussie fibsleaguers but this brings me back to the timeing issue.

For a global concept, having only one time for regular sessions (particularly when that time equates to 5am local) does not encourage the whole world  to participate  unsure

Thanks for listening  rolleyes

 
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2004, 01:15:10 PM »

PS :


I just looked at the Bagolympics table utilising..........

"Tomawaky"
Quote
Just clic on the flag and you will find a country ranking

 

Thoughts ;    rolleyes


1) Brilliant !!       fibster / by / country   ranking !!! Yes !!!    :agree:

    Has fantastic potential.     Apart from the country search on fibsleague i haven't seen anything like it done before  Cheesy GW Tomawaky  :beer:




2) In early stages of current format number of players scoring / by /   country ...........  listed in order of total score so far is,

    usa  -  10
    great britain    -   4
    sweden - 1
    spain - 1
    finland - 1
    isreal - 2
    germany - 3
    australia  - 1
    denmark - 1
    bolivia  -  1
    belgium  - 1
    france  -  1


For me QED !  Game over !      

That is, this progression of total score will continue as long as this format remains  <_<   It is merely a numbers game now not a competition.  Seems a shame when it really is an impressive list of countries so far  Smiley

It also helped me understand your comment about averaging down and sums Toma' but i still don't know what a SQL is  Wink   I dont think that would work here personally but would be willing to try any change of format  Yes

Ok I think I've made my point lol Smiley  Will sing now  Cheesy



         
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2004, 03:05:50 PM »

How about 2 "batting averages" per country: normal match and final match?
Everytime you play a normal match, it is an "at-bat" for your country. If you make it to the finals, you have earned the right to represent your country by taking an "at-bat" in the finals.
For people to understand the data better, perhaps a third column showing the number of at-bats is needed.
And we can lose the baseball theme, I just wanted to use a familiar metaphor, since most of the participants are from a baseball playing country Wink
We have all the data, so changing the scoring should be okay to do, but it should be done soon!
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2004, 03:10:28 PM »

Quote
2) In early stages of current format number of players scoring / by /   country ...........  listed in order of total score so far is,

    usa  -  10
    great britain    -   4
    sweden - 1
    spain - 1
    finland - 1
    isreal - 2
    germany - 3
    australia  - 1
    denmark - 1
    bolivia  -  1
    belgium  - 1
    france  -  1

Remember that it is a list of player who earned points but player who subscribe and lost in first round are not listed. So if 8 Aussies have signed up and lost, you would not be able to see them.  cool

It's maybe better to add players with 0 Pt ?

Quote
what a SQL is

It's just a Language to retrieve data from a database
 
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2004, 01:08:02 AM »

Understood Toma' , hence "number of players scoring / by / country " but I'm pretty confident the total subscriptions will show a similar distribution  Sad   Either way the statistical imbalance doesnt change.  

Thanks Burper, interesting option if i've got it right but an OPTION all the same Smiley)  This would add alot of weight to how many goes people had at the sessions ! Good or bad / I'm not sure. But clearly i agree with separating into 2 "events" , "at bats". :agree:

The big goal to any change in format or scoring at the moment would be to maintain scores for those sessions that have taken place already ! As you suggested  Yes  So anyone who's earned their points so far isn't disadvantaged.

How about this ?

We maintain current format for National selection.  We let everyone know that the top 1 or 3 players score by country each month (ala Friday 3's) earn selection into their Olympic team  Smiley  

Every 1 or 3 months each Olympic Team competes in the Bagolympics which are held, probably via Team Tourney on FIBSLeague ( ?? tryout  Wink ) or any other format which has equal entries per Country  Yes   and the selection process for the National Teams begins again ! From scratch !

This would also provide time in the short term to decide on exact format for Internation Competition (ie 1 - 3 months) while current format continues as is , we've just moved the goals a little. In addition the current format would provide the regular tournament play Sundays and Tuesdays, that is clearly enjoyed by many, but with a fantastic prize at the end !!  Cheesy

I'll message Tryout and ask him to read this. Meanwhile any thoughts appreciated  Tongue

"Burper" Posted on Jun 10 2004, 04:05 PM
Quote
We have all the data, so changing the scoring should be okay to do, but it should be done soon!

I Agree   :agree:

 :bye:  
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2004, 03:50:31 AM »

I have not followed this thread until EddieV emailed me.

I don't play in the tourneys other than the spur of the moment ones just because I don't really know anything about them.

If there is some way I can help EddieVedd so that he gets his tourney time when he wants it, I will gladly do so.  I live in Australia.

Please let me know.

BrizzyLions -  (going to look to see if there is a way I can get all messages emailed to me cuz I don't come to this board apparently often enough)
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2004, 05:10:47 AM »

Burper > please can you explain this "at-bat" alitle more for me. I do not understand what it is. But as soon as you let me know I will add it.

BrizzyLions, EddieVedd > Choose a time for a new sessions of bagolympics and it will planned
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2004, 05:29:00 AM »

Thanks Brizzy  Smiley

There is something,  Tongue


"Me"  Jun 9 2004, 02:30 AM
Quote
So, ........ given it is designed as a global event can i suggest staggering the session times around the clock , say 00:00 , 06:00 , 12:00 & 18:00 (GMT or whichever universal time clock is settled on) to canvas all time zones and give ALL coutries a chance to compete in at least some of the sessions. As i mentioned in an earlier post, regular placement in the wee-small hours for some countries is difficult to attend regularly if at all.

A simpler option ??........every Sunday is say 8 Am .. and every Tuesday is 8 Pm .

reply quote from Tomawaky Posted: Jun 9 2004, 07:05 AM

Quote
No problem for me give me TD.



Without commiting, just to provide an option at this stage, can you run a tourneybot tourney at any of these times on a regular basis ? No pressure !!  
No is an OK answer if you can't,  but is good if you can. thumbsup2

I Personal Messaged (CC'd) all TD's when i sent a PM to Tryout as mentioned in last post. It then sends you an e-mail Brizzy.

Thanks for answering  :bye:  
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2004, 06:22:57 AM »

I have added a Average statistic for country ranking at FibsLeaGammon.
But this one must be interpreted with care in case a country do not participe a lot !
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2004, 10:10:51 AM »

Yes Toma' with great care !

WOW  Shocked  How do you do that so fast  Cheesy  I'm Impressed at the options availiable ! and all you guys who make it happen  Smiley

Burper could you expand on what you had in mind with averages ? How best you see to use it if at all ?

I said,
Quote
This would add alot of weight to how many goes people had at the sessions ! Good or bad / I'm not sure. But clearly i agree with separating into 2 "events" , "at bats".


What do people think ? My biggest point lies with the bit "separating the two events"

I lean towards keep it simple but always happy to push envelopes Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2004, 07:27:54 PM »

Quote
I'll message Tryout and ask him to read this. Meanwhile any thoughts appreciated  Tongue
Phew, only a few days that I wasn't reading the board and now I have problems to catch up.  Shocked

Unfortunately, I don't find much time for reading here often enough, let alone writing. Sad  So here are just a few initial thoughts and comments. Maybe I'll have more time another day.

To start off, I agree with the imparity regarding countries with a far bigger count of participants. Just by mass participation such a country will easily win (assumed that they are not all dumb like bread cool ).

Taking the average is technically very easy, but neither gives a fair rating value. With this I would only want to have the 1 or 2 best players to participate for my country and try to chase everybody else away, since they would certainly lower the average.

Burper's "at-bat" idea alleviates the probems a little. But the bigger the player count of a country the higher get also the chances both to be "at-bat" in a final and also to win the tourney for this country. This count may have value in a league, where every player/team will get an equal opportunity to participate. But as long as the number of players from one team/country isn't restricted, this country will have a higher count.

The only meaningful and fair result for a country competition is to have a limited number of entrants for every country. Big countries may still have the advantage of chosing from a bigger pool, but I don't see anything that can avoid this (apart from breaking those countries into smaller pieces, which doesn't really make sense).

How many players should be allowed for each country isn't really important. However, we should aim for a reasonable trade-off between that preferably many people can participate and that the obstacle for smaller countries to reach this number of participants is low.

The next point is how the candidates are selected. Actually, I don't mind. This could be done in any way, even by lottery. Just any individual competition like tournaments or leagues, but also voting or just naming some will do.

Regarding the quest for a TD to hold another regular tourney at suitable times for Aussies... sorry, but I'm also in the position of playing from work (well, university). So I'm unable to agree on something with fixed times.  And the other problem of sometimes just having to leave the tourney or FIBS without notice also exists. Sad
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2004, 08:08:26 PM »

Thanks tryout, well stated.

In another thread, started by Biggles I think, we were trying to design a country tournament. I tried to address the problems you articulate so well by having qualifying rounds for the main event, which would be limited. Again, the qualifying rounds for a populous country draw from a larger pool, and may not even exist for a small country (small in the bg playing population that is). This would have required more TD's to work together, each running a country's qualifying round, but I didn't get any volunteers.

The 'at-bat' idea was another attempt at a second/qualifying level, but in this case, can use the existing bagolympic tournament format, which is good since it's already started Wink The scoring would be different only. I like the idea of having multiple columns of stats, each with a different interpretation, and no clear winner and plenty to argue about Wink argue

Eddie, I can't say it any better than I did, and I haven't really thought about it anymore. I spend all my time typing, so thinking get's little of my attention. wacko
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2004, 08:51:13 PM »

I thinks that bagolympic could be that qualifying rounds.
Imagine we take the better players for each country in a period of bagolympic result.
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2004, 09:56:28 PM »

Quote
How about 2 "batting averages" per country: normal match and final match?

Some kind of "at-bat" Here
« Last Edit: June 12, 2004, 07:48:42 AM by Tomawaky » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2004, 07:56:17 AM »

Thanks for your thoughts Tryout Smiley

I am very grateful for your experienced input.  Rest assured no "problems to catch up" here  Wink  Hopefully just some improvements   Tongue
It seems we agree on a critical point....

Tryout Posted on Jun 11 2004, 08:27 PM
Quote
The only meaningful and fair result for a country competition is to have a limited number of entrants for every country.


A large reason i messaged you to ask for you input was,

"from me"  Posted: Jun 11 2004, 02:08 AM
Quote
Every 1 or 3 months each Olympic Team competes in the Bagolympics which are held,probably via Team Tourney on FIBSLeague ( ?? tryout  ) or any other format which has equal entries per Country  and the selection process for the National Teams begins again ! From scratch !


I am suggestting a limited and equal number of entrants in a 2nd stage of the Bagolympics, after players qualify during the current format (stage 1), and wondered if you could incorporate a TEAM LEAGUE for the "Olympiad" on your TEAM site ?

Each rotation you would have countries playing each other with an ultimate crowning of World Champion TEAM.

If you are able to do this can you please let me know ? So we know if it's at least an option ?

Thanks heaps Tryout  Smiley



Tomawaky Smiley


Tomawaky Posted on Jun 11 2004, 09:51 PM
Quote
thinks that bagolympic could be that qualifying rounds.


Thanks Smiley

Lets not  use the averages at this stage for the scoring , though they have potential somewhere I'm sure, too confusing when already changing things wacko   Lets just use the top scoreing players from each country by the current format. Those that register the most are rewarded by haveing a better chance to increase their score! Sounds fair and easiest to me. AND they are only competing against their OWN COUNTRYmen/women during this phase !


So how many Qualify Huh??

I suggest-------

Top 1 from each country per Month gains selection to national team
Individual can only Qualify once so everyone has 3 bites at it because...
It goes for 3 Months. Each month scoring begins from zero but places in Team are taken up.
After three months , Qualifier now begins again from scratch , ie 3 places open.
Meanwhile the team of 3 from each country go onto TEAM LEAGUE 2nd stage and have 3 months to complete their matches !

(Note the effect of taking top 2 countrymen/women EACH month)

And on it rotates, all the while with regular twice weekly come as you please tourneybot tourneys  Cheesy

So if Tryout or anyone can compile the TEAM results this is how i think we should make it happen Smiley I'm not sure we could run the 2nd phase (at bat) with the current format because only those who had qualified could enter ? At least not with tourneybot (or con-currently), very difficult for TD's.

What I suggest doesn't have to happen but please Someone who has the power please make a decision that is clearly an improvement  Cheesy Please Smiley


Thanks. Smiley


Brizzy,

 has told me on Fibs she can do some of those times I suggested earlier but just would want to host the tourneybot phase and then someone else input results into the system. I'll ask that she post times she can do Smiley

Thanks Brizzy Smiley

and

Finally,

I got a home e-mail from a TD that i adore today, all it said was "but what is your question?"  That's it Smiley

Mostly out of all I've written I guess it would be "What do you think? " and ask that you please post it here Smiley

Please know i am going on about this, not for me or Australia, but for all those around the world that LOVE these tourneys on fibs. Because of this tourneys POTENTIAL to be Truely GLOBAL  Yes  

If you agree please post it.
If you dis-agree please post it Smiley Maybe then I'll shut up  Cheesy

Thanks for listening.



 







 
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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2004, 12:30:32 PM »

OK - pretty much all of this has me confused - but that is not difficult to do  wacko

If i understand anything at all - it seems to be that there is a growing feeling that the current BAGolympics should be used to draw up the players for the country team - if that is the case - then i will feel a whole lot more enthusiastic about it.  Although i stuck to the 'keep quiet now, and complain later' arrangement which seems to work so well  Wink  - i do feel a little mislead by all of this.

I dont remember - or didnt understand that the regular tournaments were going to be for the olympics thing - which i had said i was not very keen on (in this format at least). Hence i have not participated in any of the events - and was very reluctant to run one.

If, however, this is altered to be a selection process - then i feel it is quite a good one - of all those suggested - and would feel a lot happier about involving myself.
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2004, 11:55:39 AM »

Quote
I am suggestting a limited and equal number of entrants in a 2nd stage of the Bagolympics, after players qualify during the current format (stage 1), and wondered if you could incorporate a TEAM LEAGUE for the "Olympiad" on your TEAM site ?
Quote
Each rotation you would have countries playing each other with an ultimate crowning of World Champion TEAM.

If you are able to do this can you please let me know ? So we know if it's at least an option ?
Hmm, I'd have to think very hard about this. I'm tempted but I guess I won't have the time for another regular commitment. Running the normal team league takes up my rather limited time already quite a bit. But let's discuss the other things first.

Quote
So how many Qualify Huh??

I suggest-------

Top 1 from each country per Month gains selection to national team
Individual can only Qualify once so everyone has 3 bites at it because...
It goes for 3 Months. Each month scoring begins from zero but places in Team are taken up.
After three months , Qualifier now begins again from scratch , ie 3 places open.
Meanwhile the team of 3 from each country go onto TEAM LEAGUE 2nd stage and have 3 months to complete their matches !
Using Bagolympics for the selection of country team members sounds fine with me. This heavily reduces the need of country team captains. But perhaps they are still necessary. I haven't made up my mind yet about what I'd prefer for the exact process. Maybe just taking the 3 top players from each country after 3 months is better, or at least easier?

Anyway, other issues:
What if someone of the qualified players doesn't want or is unable to play the final league/tourney? Mind that this implies an availability for those players of 6 months! Also, I guess not everybody who's in for a short fun tourney will want to commit to play under a different system.

For the final tourney I can envision quite some tournament formats. It wouldn't have to be necessary a round robin league. Single or double elimination or Swiss would also do, as well as there's no necessity to act like a team. Interpreting individual results for the team would also suffice.

Quote
(Note the effect of taking top 2 countrymen/women EACH month)
Also possible, but weren't you talking about 1 each month above?
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2004, 08:17:49 PM »

OK ! Progress !!  jump

After a long and productive chat with tryout (many thanks tryout and to Diane for your post ! ) on fibs tonight he has agreed to attach Stage 2 (??FibsOlympics??) to the Team League site and set it up for us. I have agreed to work with him and do as much as i can to help with workload etc after i learn how  Tongue

So in summary here's what is proposed;

Current bagolympics format continues as is.
     It will now double as a qualifier for selection into your National Team.
     There are 3 places availiable in each National Team.
      The highest scoring individual per country each Month is selected.
      The highest scoring individual of any country each Month wins the monthly Tournament (as well as National selection)
     
This continues for 3 months > A player can only qualify once.
If they were to win again, the 2nd placed countrymen would gain selection, but he/she could win the monthly (overall) tournament again (ie into Hall of fame).
     
Ties :  If Equal score >> the person who has registered the most over the month wins.
         
(If equal score and equal registrations Huh? help please , maybe play-off match, ok for two but what if 3 or more (unlikely as it is) ? Highest/Lowest rating perhaps ??)

The first Team member selected (month 1) is now their countries Team Captain and is responsible for future communication with Organisers.

Minimum Qualification Requirements : 3 Individuals (beware multiple niks) who scored at least one point during month of selection.

Month 4 : Selection process re-starts (3 spots open)
               
              FibsOlympics TEAM Event begins !!

If 10 or less Teams meet minimum qualification requirements =  1 division Round Robin.

If more than 10 Teams = 2 divisions (seeded randomly) Round Robins with Final play-off as per Masters > Winner Div A Vs 2nd Div B    and     Winner Div B Vs 2nd Div A and Grand Final to finish.

Teams Have 3 months to complete and the winners are crowned World Champions  Cheesy  


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


One of the good things here is most of the frame work for all this is already in place.

We need ;

To place changes and format on all relevant sites.

Advertise (during bagolympic sessions especially).

To consider alternate times for bagolympic sessions to cover all time zones (TD's).

Constructive suggestions  Wink



What do ya think Huh??       :innocent:  
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2004, 08:43:28 PM »

ok - i think i get it - i guess i will pick it up as we go along - and those cleverer than me can take care of the paperwork  Cheesy  
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2004, 11:17:12 AM »

Quote
Ties :  If Equal score >> the person who has registered the most over the month wins.
         
(If equal score and equal registrations Huh? help please , maybe play-off match, ok for two but what if 3 or more (unlikely as it is) ? Highest/Lowest rating perhaps ??)
Why not look for the best Average ?


Quote
The highest scoring individual per country each Month is selected

Yes if the player is agree to play for a team. We need to not forget that  rolleyes  
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2004, 11:32:34 AM »

Surely if they dont agree to play for a team - they dont play as part of the 'olympics' - wasnt this always going to be a team event??
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2004, 03:30:56 PM »

Thanks Tomawaky Smiley


Tomawaky Posted on Jun 15 2004, 12:17 PM
Quote
Why not look for the best Average ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but..........If they have the same score AND same number of registrations their average will be the same yes ? Smiley

Tomawaky Posted on Jun 15 2004, 12:17 PM

Quote
Yes if the player is agree to play for a team. We need to not forget that

Yes selection would be "optional" , so if they pass the next highest scorer is offered a place on the team and so on until not enough players to meet minimum qualification requirements and therefore no entry into FibsOlympics!

In the end we WANT 3 motivated entrants WANTING to represent their country. This also gives us the best chance of finishing all matches in 3 months Smiley

 
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2004, 04:47:15 PM »

Quote
Tomawaky Posted on Jun 15 2004, 12:17 PM
Quote
Why not look for the best Average ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but..........If they have the same score AND same number of registrations their average will be the same yes ? Smiley
oops
Need a rest and coming back  Cheesy

 sleepey  sleepey  sleepey  sleepey  sleepey  sleepey  sleepey

So why not about
- the overall number of points
- the overall average
- The best score for a session
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2004, 06:41:52 PM »

Smiley   np    Smiley

It depends if we want to reward more registrations or not ? Because the MORE you register the LOWER your average will be ! Seems a bit unfair to me.

If you agree i would suggest

- the overall number of points
- the overall registrations
- The best score for a session (Good idea thanks Yes . Very unlikely but if STILL equal)
-  2nd best score for a session and so on .......(countback)



 
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« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2004, 05:48:38 AM »

seems fair
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2004, 12:47:10 AM »

The reigning Premiers  :beer:

After 3 titles in a row :ohmaster:

In the toughest Australian Rules competition in the WORLD !  LOOOOL

                                           BrizzyLions[/size]   !   :kisshart:


Has agreed to host BagOlympic tourneys  -   Every Tuesday at 1Pm GMT  - In addition to those already held. Beginning 1st Week in JULY.

 GMT / TOURNEY TIMECLOCK, SCHEDULE & STANDINGS



If any TD's can make say 3AM  every Tuesday &/or Sunday we will have the time zones covered !   Cool!

Thanks Brizzy from the Southern Hemisphere  jump  
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« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2004, 07:29:06 PM »

July is coming up fast!
TD's for BagOlympic sessions in July should make sure the calendar is up to date and accurate.
http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?&act=calendar
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2004, 04:13:38 AM »

Please ignore my previous post, sadly Brizzylions has pulled out of hosting tourneys Sad  If any other TD can commit to different time zone hosting for BagOlympics please let us know. It would be appreciated by many Smiley

Thanks,

Eddie.
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« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2004, 09:46:45 PM »

I'd like to say a big  beerdrinkers CHEERS to Tomawaky after the successful completion of the BagOlympics' first month !

Competitors from 18 countries !!! couldn't get close to the GoGOgiZ man Smiley

TD's showed up and persevered despite the noisy minority  Yes

All around GREAT FUN thanks Tomawaky !!  Cheesy


 
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2004, 05:53:35 AM »

Congrats gogogiz, way to go!!  :beer:  And for the morning/evening hangovers, here's some :coffee:  
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2004, 05:58:44 AM »

Quote
Please ignore my previous post, sadly Brizzylions has pulled out of hosting tourneys Sad  If any other TD can commit to different time zone hosting for BagOlympics please let us know. It would be appreciated by many Smiley

Thanks,

Eddie.
Well there are a few Ozzies who come to mind, such as clay and Simon Woodhead, but surely the man for the job is EddieVedd! Or maybe this would suit Tremorchrist better?  Wink  
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« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2004, 01:48:32 AM »

Thanks Alef for your first comments on this strand.  They dont have to be Aussies , just someone willing to commit regularly to a time other than those covered already. In an effort to cover all time zones for this Global tourney. Can you do it please ?

On the first page of this strand I said....

EddieVedd Posted: Jun 9 2004, 02:30 AM

Quote
(This would be seem appropriate time to mention my apprecitaion for those who have chosen to be TD's for the benefit of others and my regret at not doing it myself. My decision not to is based on..... my working week is a 24/7 rotating roster that removes ANY consistency from week to week. Much of my bg play is done AT work  and there i am at risk of HAVING to leave at any moment. Basically rendering me unreliable for regular appointments  That said i am more than willing to help in any way i can outside of these limitations and try to contribute to the amazing efforts y'all have put in so far ! Read : gogo sox diane Tom burp brizzy mano webr alley kari houtx  , you get the idea  )



Since then i have written alot on the topic that has largely gone unanswered , contiued to work at what is now the FIBS World Cup with lots of help from tryout and Tomawaky (announcement and web page imminent) and sadly lost Brizzy, the one person who stood up and said I'll help ! This was very disappointing because of the way it happened. The reasons WHY it happened ? I dont have all the facts and will not comment on yet because i trust you and the others who have deemed....

alef Posted: Jun 25 2004, 05:32 PM
Quote
The nitty gritty of the disagreements aren't really sensible for public posting.


Personally i favour transparency as the first option.

I'll just mention Diane here as the other TD who has offered explanation why she cant make other times. Thanks DI.

Tremorchrist has long since retired and his son's moved away, I dont think clay or simon are TD's so the request remains in place with humble gratitude for those that might consider it.

Cheers,

Eddie.  Tongue  
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« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2004, 02:04:51 PM »

For those who may have been following this thread cool

It has begun !!  Yes

With enourmous help from Tryout, Tomawaky, MadMatt, Webrunner, Alef, Burper, BrizzyLions, Diane and the other Voluntary Tournament Coordinators  ( V - TC's  Tongue  )  phase 2 of the B'GOlympics is underway Smiley

Here's a link to the starting post ;


  The FIBS World Cup !


I made my first ever Fibsboard post on this thread largely because of what these people had done to improve my enjoyment online  rolleyes  I had been prospering from their efforts for some time and then saw an opportunity to add to what had been created. This was the catalyst for me caring about times zones and equality in competition.

What I've found is all number of people willing to... no... going out of their way to, help everyone have more fun  :agree:  

Thanks  :beer:  and i hope we enjoy  :jump2: ( < always been my favourite smilie).  
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« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2004, 12:10:39 PM »

Session #2 for July 2004 was held on TourneyBot as #848, Here are my notes:


mrbond says: england : W2:W3:W4:W5, 7 points

MateoZ says: bolivia: W2:W3:W4:L5, 4 points

NIHolympic shouts: USA: W1:W2:W3:L4, 3 points

Denise says: can i play for USA?: W1:W2:L3, 2 points
DirtyHarryII: denmark: W1:W2:L3, 2 points
zedi says: italy: W2:W3:L4, 2 points
shugat says: shugat is USA: W1:W2:L3, 2 points

drjesse: canada: W1:L2, 1 points
juanz: Spain: W1:L2, 1 points
mano: France: W1:L2, 1 points
Matrasback: Italy!!!: W2:L3, 1 points
samirah says: switzerland: W1:L2, 1 points
Schloti says: germany: W1:L2, 1 points
vegasvic shouts: USA: W1:L2, 1 points

Mort says: usa: L2, 0 points
Robocop says: costa rica: L1, 0 points
ROMA_L says: Morocco: L2, 0 points
Shades says: Netherlands: L1, 0 points
socksey says: usa: L1, 0 points
sticks shouts: USA: L1, 0 points
vvdd says: netherlands: L1, 0 points
zdoc: netherlands: L1, 0 points
Asandy says: hiya burber. I'm from the Netherlands: L1, 0 points
bacalhau says: canada: L1, 0 points
gogogiz: england: L1, 0 points
manic says: i'm from australia: L1, 0 points
 
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2004, 02:58:47 PM »

Quote
Thanks Alef for your first comments on this strand.  They dont have to be Aussies , just someone willing to commit regularly to a time other than those covered already. In an effort to cover all time zones for this Global tourney. Can you do it please ?
It's surprisingly easy to lose track of topics and threads here, guess that's a small side effect of the success of this Board...

Sorry to not help on this one, dear Eddie, but I'm avoiding both running and playing in tournies for a while. I'm juggling quite a few things and though my enthusiasm for FIBS as a whole remains high I think it best to not commit to specific times.

It's an *excellent* concept for a tournament though, big round of applause for all the organizers!  Yes  
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« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2004, 04:06:00 PM »

Cheers Alef and NP Smiley  thanks for letting us know here Smiley  beerdrinkers  
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« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2004, 03:50:52 PM »

How did BagO go on Sunday diane?
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« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2004, 05:50:24 PM »

BagOlympic results for Sunday 18th July - held on TBot, tourney No 57

1. _donja_ - germany - winner - 7 points

2. NIHolympic - usa - runner up - 4 points

3. all get 3 points
   juanz - spain
   aslengyel - romania

5. All get 2 points
   samirah - switzerland
   mano - france
   sticks - usa
   Backwoods - finland

9. All get 1 point
   wyzzz - usa
   socksey - usa
   zdoc - usa
   sunray - canada
   gogogiz - uk
   poune - france
   teyakis - uk
   diane  - uk


17. Mort (usa) Shades (netherlands) mrbond(uk) maxilex (netherlands)
 inim (germany) DirtyHarryII (denmark) THEdiceLIE (usa)
 oo_Giorgio_oo (italy) resh_lakish (usa) - all get zero points

On a special note - a big thanks to burper :ohmaster:  for supplying a back up bot to run the event, since TourneyBot was unavailable all day sunday.  Without the TBot there would have been no tourney!! thumbsup2
Sorry to scardy who turned up too late to be instructed on registering - for future reference folks - please take care to note which bot is being used for the tourney.  As and when TBot comes fully online - some TDs may prefer to use the updated version - since it has some handy shortcuts and features.    
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« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2004, 09:21:42 AM »

Like EddieVedd I am passionate about having Australia involved in BAGOlympics and I support his suggestion that matches be played at different time periods. Any time between 800 - 1400 UTC would suit me nicely. The time period of 2400 - 800 UTC would be ideal, but I don't know if any TD's would be available at that time. To put it simply, do you guys think 8am or midnight UTC is a possible timeslot?

Anakin  Smiley  
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« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2004, 09:29:52 AM »

OK - i will throw caution to the wind and volunteer for a midnight slot, at least once per fortnight, Weds is probably the best day to offer this - as i am about over the weekend by then.  I will agree to show up and ensure it starts and see it through if need be - but perhaps if another suitable TD is around/available i could pass it on if it runs to three hours  Cheesy

How does that sound?
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« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2004, 10:21:47 AM »

It sounds terrific Diane ! Thanks   :kiss:  

10Am our time is a whole lot better than 5am Smiley Would you mind confirming with Tomawaky  and asking him to update the times you chose on the web page ? Cheers Smiley

Good on you Anakin, gl with making the Team Smiley
And any other alternative times would still be welcomed TD's  Tongue


Eddie.
 
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« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2004, 11:23:05 AM »

Ok the best way to put this in a straightforward way is to state i will run one on the first and third weds of each month (same format as the rest then - and almost one per fortnight Smiley ) I will run the first on 4th august.  

Tomawaky - can you enter that on to the webpage - but if you could also include a note to the effect that any help from other TDs would be welcomed on the night that would be splendid - thx.
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« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2004, 01:31:27 AM »

WoW!! You have impressed me Diane, your response time was amazing!!
Thanks for volunteering to fill this time slot, it will be a big help for me and others.

Anakin   Smiley  
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« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2004, 06:45:07 AM »

I had been thinking on it for a while - since i am often around at that time, and when i came in this wednesday for a practice run, i found gogo there and running a tourney - so i am quietly confident someone will be around to help  Cheesy  
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« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2004, 03:20:09 AM »

Oh no!  Diane!  I am so sorry. Sad  When you said midnight GMT wednesday, I thought you meant wednesday morning, but you were thinking thursday morning. Technically midnight is considered the morning of the next day. Oh dear what a confusion, because my time zone is GMT + 10 hours.  The thursday morning time slot does not suit me, because thats the day I have a physio session each week and I can't change it. Sad  What are we going to do?  I got it all wrong.   Sad

Anakin
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« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2004, 05:54:45 AM »

Suuuuuuuuuuuure they cant move the physio?  Wink

Dont know - sorry - it is a bit late to change it now  Sad
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 06:23:45 AM by diane » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2004, 07:52:50 PM »

BagOlympic results for Wednesday 04/08/04 - held on Tourneybot, tourney No 917

1. ZEUS - Netherlands - winner - 7 points

2. Scardy - UK - runner up - 4 points

3.
Zorba - Netherlands - 2 points
jant - Netherlands - 3 points

5. All get one point
SQUALIDUS - Brazil
sticks - USA
Mary_in_Florida - usa
nutter - usa

9.
snowflakes - usa - 1 point

the rest get 0 points

socksey - usa
Boardking - usa
Mort - usa
gogogiz - uk
inim - germany
diane - uk
MikeyRob - usa

17 - Also get 0 points
resh_lakish - usa
_pat_ - belgium


Whilst the Dutch had a very successful evening - I cant help but notice a distinct lack of a certain nationality...... Wink
You had better start turning up in droves (and you know who you are) - or I may have to rethink this madness!!
 Cheesy

Anyway - for now same time, two weeks time

Diane
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« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2004, 05:11:46 AM »

Dear Diane Smiley

The idea of staggering the BagOlympic sessions was always designed to open up the competition to more time zones - not just Australia - as has been mis-construed a couple of times in this thread Smiley  This is to do justice to the global ideal of the tourney. Whilst Anakin correctly suggested i was passionate about having Australia compete (on a level playing field) my main motivation for session times has always been to allow ALL time zones an equal opportunity to compete. Before you put your hand up to help we had all sessions around the same time. There is now a few hours difference with your inclusion which is better than nothing. Ideally i think if the seesion times were seperated by 8 hours or so the goal would be achieved. Please don't judge the success by how many Aussies show up. This is not the point of the excersise Smiley

Thanks again for vounteering Di  :kiss:  
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« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2004, 05:52:25 AM »

PS : I happened to be on fibs at Midday last Wednesday and fielded some questions from people keen to play and expecting your session to start soon. We got past the 24 hour GMT thing but they had a point with the which midnight was it ?

diane Posted on Aug 4 2004, 06:54 AM
Quote
Dont know - sorry - it is a bit late to change it now

Can i suggest changing it slightly to 23:59 Tuesday/Wednesday or 00:01 Wednesday/Thusday and or not confusing the issue by combining 24 hr time with 12 hour notations. ie 00:00am . It's either 00:00 or Midnight Smiley

Just a suggestion Smiley

Eddie.
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« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2004, 07:48:31 AM »

LOL, yes - the time seemed very straightforward until people started asking questions!! And my point jokingly made about australians was only half the issue.  We really didnt see any new faces - which WAS the point.  If that continues, then it isnt useful as a time slot - and that IS the point - so i would rather swap it around to something that is going to give others a chance.  I wont alter the time yet, since i think most have now sorted out where the time slot occurs in their part of the world, but continue with it for maybe 4 sessions (two months) and see what happens.  

The only other thing that occurs to me is to get up very early and run one before i go to work - but that does give problems for late running tourneys. (and we run into my general lack of enthusiasm for getting out of bed in the morning  Cheesy )
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« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2004, 02:35:35 AM »

diane Posted on Aug 6 2004, 08:48 AM
Quote
and we run into my general lack of enthusiasm for getting out of bed in the morning  )

I hear ya Smiley It's our problem in this timezone as well Smiley  QED

Yeah as i said, i guess a few hours difference than the existing timeslots is better than nothin but ideally 3*8 hour timeslots or 2*12 would be best.

Anyway short of other TD's chiming in to help with this ideal (achem....) we'll all be thankful for what exists Smiley

Thanks DI.  
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« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2004, 01:53:09 PM »

Ok - here is a thought...

Since burper needs to pull out of hosting his current sunday position, due to family commitments - and we are looking to find a new TD for that session, could we also give some thought to the time.  I would much rather run my sunday session late morning or early afternoon - ie somewhere between 1100 UTC (AM)and 1300 UTC (1 pm). This would then give the 8 hour time difference we are looking to achieve, and hopefully allow some new faces an opportunity to play.  Is there another TD who could run the other sunday session at this time?  We could then make both the changes together.
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« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2004, 03:25:50 PM »

Results for the Sunday after first Tuesday session:

Watch out for the "unknown" countries, some of which I can fill in when I get back to
my notes for the session:

INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('fibsterin', 'germany', 8, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Cheetah', 'costarica', 4, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('inim', 'germany', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Mort', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('NicklasE', 'unknown', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('lostoak', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('NIHolympic', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('cammo', 'unknown', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('dorbel', 'greece', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('gogogiz', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('houtx', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('nixo', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Shades', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Spock', 'unknown', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);

8:
   fibsterin   R1,R2,R3,R4,R5+3Bonus

4:
   Cheetah      R2,R3,R4+1Bonus

2:
   inim      R2,R3
   Mort      R2,R3
   NicklasE   R1,R2

1:
   diane      R1
   lostoak      R2
   mano      R2
   NIHolympic   R2

0:
   burper
   cammo
   dorbel
   gogogiz
   houtx
   nixo
   OscarIII
   scardy (forfeit)
   Shades
   Spock

** You tell TBot: matches all tourney 93
>
TBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #93:
>
TBot says: T93R1M1 (3-pt): NicklasE (1356) def. houtx (1603) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R1M2 (3-pt): diane (1635) def. scardy (1608) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R1M3 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. nixo (1678) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M1 (3-pt): NicklasE (1356) def. gogogiz (1623) 3-2
>
TBot says: T93R2M2 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. OscarIII (1765) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M3 (3-pt): inim (1597) def. cammo (1542) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M4 (3-pt): mano (1732) def. dorbel (1947) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M5 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. Spock (1804) 7-1
>
TBot says: T93R2M6 (3-pt): lostoak (1485) def. burper (1680) 3-2
>
TBot says: T93R2M7 (3-pt): Mort (1608) def. Shades (1163) 3-1
>
TBot says: T93R2M8 (3-pt): NIHolympic (1653) def. diane (1635) 4-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M1 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. NicklasE (1356) 4-1
>
TBot says: T93R3M2 (3-pt): inim (1597) def. mano (1732) 4-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M3 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. lostoak (1485) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M4 (3-pt): Mort (1608) def. NIHolympic (1653) 3-1
>
TBot says: T93R4M1 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. inim (1597) 5-0
>
TBot says: T93R4M2 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. Mort (1608) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R5M1 (5-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. Cheetah (1906) 6-0
>
TBot says: Done listing all matches of Tourney #93.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2004, 04:11:17 PM by burper » Logged
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« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2004, 08:53:20 PM »

Quote
Results for the Sunday after first Tuesday session:

Watch out for the "unknown" countries, some of which I can fill in when I get back to
my notes for the session:

INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('fibsterin', 'germany', 8, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Cheetah', 'costarica', 4, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('inim', 'germany', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Mort', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('NicklasE', 'unknown', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('lostoak', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('NIHolympic', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('cammo', 'unknown', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('dorbel', 'greece', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('gogogiz', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('houtx', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('nixo', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Shades', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Spock', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);

8:
   fibsterin   R1,R2,R3,R4,R5+3Bonus

4:
   Cheetah      R2,R3,R4+1Bonus

2:
   inim      R2,R3
   Mort      R2,R3
   NicklasE   R1,R2

1:
   diane      R1
   lostoak      R2
   mano      R2
   NIHolympic   R2

0:
   burper
   cammo
   dorbel
   gogogiz
   houtx
   nixo
   OscarIII
   scardy (forfeit)
   Shades
   Spock

** You tell TBot: matches all tourney 93
>
TBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #93:
>
TBot says: T93R1M1 (3-pt): NicklasE (1356) def. houtx (1603) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R1M2 (3-pt): diane (1635) def. scardy (1608) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R1M3 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. nixo (1678) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M1 (3-pt): NicklasE (1356) def. gogogiz (1623) 3-2
>
TBot says: T93R2M2 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. OscarIII (1765) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M3 (3-pt): inim (1597) def. cammo (1542) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M4 (3-pt): mano (1732) def. dorbel (1947) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R2M5 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. Spock (1804) 7-1
>
TBot says: T93R2M6 (3-pt): lostoak (1485) def. burper (1680) 3-2
>
TBot says: T93R2M7 (3-pt): Mort (1608) def. Shades (1163) 3-1
>
TBot says: T93R2M8 (3-pt): NIHolympic (1653) def. diane (1635) 4-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M1 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. NicklasE (1356) 4-1
>
TBot says: T93R3M2 (3-pt): inim (1597) def. mano (1732) 4-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M3 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. lostoak (1485) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R3M4 (3-pt): Mort (1608) def. NIHolympic (1653) 3-1
>
TBot says: T93R4M1 (3-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. inim (1597) 5-0
>
TBot says: T93R4M2 (3-pt): Cheetah (1906) def. Mort (1608) 3-0
>
TBot says: T93R5M1 (5-pt): fibsterin (1558) def. Cheetah (1906) 6-0
>
TBot says: Done listing all matches of Tourney #93.
i can't edit my post, but here it is again with Spock's country added:
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« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2004, 10:26:15 PM »

Quote
Ok - here is a thought...

Since burper needs to pull out of hosting his current sunday position, due to family commitments - and we are looking to find a new TD for that session, could we also give some thought to the time.  I would much rather run my sunday session late morning or early afternoon - ie somewhere between 1100 UTC (AM)and 1300 UTC (1 pm). This would then give the 8 hour time difference we are looking to achieve, and hopefully allow some new faces an opportunity to play.  Is there another TD who could run the other sunday session at this time?  We could then make both the changes together.
You better start a new topic for this Diane.
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« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2004, 10:40:26 PM »

With regard to the previous post and quote.

Some significant advances have been made over the last 48 hours that will help with the running and particpation of the BagOlympic sessions. Diane's post is particularly relevant to this thread given all that has been written here before it. Stay tuned for an equally relevant announcement on the subject Smiley

Trust me Webby  Wink  
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« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2004, 07:10:22 AM »

Quote
You better start a new topic for this Diane.
It did occur to me a while ago that this thread has become a muddle of results and discussions on improving the times.  Unfortunately I can do nothing about that - it think it would take soemone with admin access to rearrange the thread from the beginning into results and comments  Cheesy

Although - as I previously posted - since it is a lot of work to report here in the format used - and then do the email for tomawaky - I will just send the email - since then all the results are visible in one place - and in the many different formats Tomawaky has set his site up for.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2004, 07:14:48 AM by diane » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2004, 09:12:58 AM »

Quote
Quote from: burper,Aug 9 2004, 03:25 PM
Results for the Sunday after first Tuesday session:

INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Shades', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 8, 2004);
 
Erm - how come shades is down for great britain??? Last thing I knew he was Dutch!!  
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« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2004, 10:40:45 AM »

Shocked   and even so you coyuld be wrong.... I am a split personality... beware...

 :LOOOL:  
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« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2004, 11:25:56 AM »

Please clear this up - before we have another can of worms (having just emptied one into the garden so to speak).  Shades, you are, from what you have told me -and from previous tournaments, Dutch.  An extended stay in the UK does not change that, in the same way a passport and a stay in Isreal makes Resh able to play for Israel.  This is all complicated enough, without people country swapping!!
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« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2004, 11:35:48 AM »

Perhaps we could have an european team?
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« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2004, 11:44:42 AM »

This was all covered in the early stages of organising the bagOlympics - please dont put me through that again !!! Tongue  
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« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2004, 12:07:47 PM »

One player for One Country.
If I find some strange info for a player I would be able to drop his results.
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« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2004, 12:35:27 PM »

huh

I NEVER said I was UK.... always Netherlands and.... SORRY if I dared joking about it... Going to the garden to whip my ass in apology...!!! :hang:  
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« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2004, 12:56:12 PM »

Ok - sorry - misunderstood  rolleyes

At least all is clear now .... Smiley  
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« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2004, 02:06:25 PM »

As promised...... here's an announcement relevant to this thread and the enjoyable if not long discussion i have had here over the last few months. Thanks from me to those who contributed to the discussion & i believe improvements that have resulted. In particular,most recently, diane, gogogiz, burper, mano, tomawaky and wingtsun.

Effective immediately the BagOlympic Sessions will now be held......

EVERY SUNDAY at 11:00 GMT (11am)

&

EVERY TUESDAY at 20:00 GMT (8pm)



These times should be taken off this CLOCK which is at the top of the BagOlympics page.

These sessions, in addtion to being great real time tourneys, are used as qualifying rounds for the FIBS WORLD CUP.

The changes to the session times were made in part to simplify the schedule but also importantly, the Sunday Am slot was created to assist countries in other Time Zone's ability to compete in these events. We hope you make the most of this and enjoy yourselves along the way  Tongue

Cheers, Eddie.....    jump

PS: Shades has already Qualified for the Netherlands World Cup Team. How could that have been overlooked ?  Wink  
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« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2004, 05:18:29 PM »

blush

I did??.... Really...Huh? wow... thumbsup2  
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« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2004, 07:32:54 AM »

Can someone please hold my 2 next sessions for the 31/08 and the 7/09.
Still have no Internet connexion and maybe for a little month !
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« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2004, 08:32:01 AM »

I am sure someone will do that for you - but probably not me - as those tuesday night sessions go on a bit late for me  Smiley I will try and be around though - in case.
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« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2004, 02:15:30 PM »

I'll take them for you.
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« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2004, 05:07:03 AM »

Really thanks burper
Hope to be back on fibs soon :imissu:  
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« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2004, 09:56:01 PM »

INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('DICEDICEBABY', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('fibsterin', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('lene', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Mort', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('ozgit', 'australia', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('pantar', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('scardy', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('soky', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Schloti', 'germany', 1, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('silent_greek', 'greece', 1, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('hypno', 'denmark', 2, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('poune', 'france', 2, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('rossmann', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Spock', 'germany', 2, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('vegasvic', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('socksey', 'usa', 5, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('sunray', 'canada', 8, 'bagolympic', 30, 8, 2004);


** You tell TBot: matches all tourney 129
>
TBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #129:
>
TBot says: T129R1M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. scardy (1588) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R1M2 (3-pt): silent_greek (1455) def. DICEDICEBABY (1230) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R1M3 (3-pt): poune (1620) def. mano (1773) 4-1
>
TBot says: T129R1M4 (3-pt): Spock (1788) def. Mort (1711) 3-1
>
TBot says: T129R1M5 (3-pt): burper (1710) def. fibsterin (1536) 4-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. pantar (1524) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M2 (3-pt): poune (1620) def. soky (1773) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M3 (3-pt): diane (1671) def. burper (1710) 12-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M4 (3-pt): hypno (1546) def. lene (1753) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M5 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. ozgit (1408) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M6 (3-pt): Schloti (1444) def. rossmann (1639) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M7 (3-pt): Spock (1788) def. OscarIII (1820) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M8 (3-pt): vegasvic (1725) def. silent_greek (1455) 4-0
>
TBot says: T129R3M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. poune (1620) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R3M2 (3-pt): hypno (1546) def. diane (1671) 9-0
>
TBot says: T129R3M3 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. Schloti (1444) 6-1
>
TBot says: T129R3M4 (3-pt): vegasvic (1725) def. Spock (1788) 12-0
>
TBot says: T129R4M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. hypno (1546) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R4M2 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. vegasvic (1725) 7-0
>
TBot says: T129R5M1 (5-pt): sunray (1744) def. socksey (1666)
>
TBot says: Done listing all matches of Tourney #129.
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« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2004, 01:48:36 AM »

The 30's should have been 8's. I can't edit anymore because webrunner doesn't like me, so I will have to quote instead. Thanks for pointing out the error diane.

Quote
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('DICEDICEBABY', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('fibsterin', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('lene', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Mort', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('ozgit', 'australia', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('pantar', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('scardy', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('soky', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 1, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Schloti', 'germany', 1, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('silent_greek', 'greece', 1, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('hypno', 'denmark', 2, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('poune', 'france', 2, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('rossmann', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Spock', 'germany', 2, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('vegasvic', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('socksey', 'usa', 5, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('sunray', 'canada', 8, 'bagolympic', 8, 8, 2004);


** You tell TBot: matches all tourney 129
>
TBot says: Listing all matches of Tourney #129:
>
TBot says: T129R1M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. scardy (1588) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R1M2 (3-pt): silent_greek (1455) def. DICEDICEBABY (1230) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R1M3 (3-pt): poune (1620) def. mano (1773) 4-1
>
TBot says: T129R1M4 (3-pt): Spock (1788) def. Mort (1711) 3-1
>
TBot says: T129R1M5 (3-pt): burper (1710) def. fibsterin (1536) 4-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. pantar (1524) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M2 (3-pt): poune (1620) def. soky (1773) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M3 (3-pt): diane (1671) def. burper (1710) 12-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M4 (3-pt): hypno (1546) def. lene (1753) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M5 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. ozgit (1408) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M6 (3-pt): Schloti (1444) def. rossmann (1639) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R2M7 (3-pt): Spock (1788) def. OscarIII (1820) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R2M8 (3-pt): vegasvic (1725) def. silent_greek (1455) 4-0
>
TBot says: T129R3M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. poune (1620) 3-2
>
TBot says: T129R3M2 (3-pt): hypno (1546) def. diane (1671) 9-0
>
TBot says: T129R3M3 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. Schloti (1444) 6-1
>
TBot says: T129R3M4 (3-pt): vegasvic (1725) def. Spock (1788) 12-0
>
TBot says: T129R4M1 (3-pt): sunray (1744) def. hypno (1546) 3-0
>
TBot says: T129R4M2 (3-pt): socksey (1666) def. vegasvic (1725) 7-0
>
TBot says: T129R5M1 (5-pt): sunray (1744) def. socksey (1666)
>
TBot says: Done listing all matches of Tourney #129.
adf
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« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2004, 05:28:25 AM »

No matter It was 9 definitly  Cheesy
Thanks to the best TD team
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« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2004, 07:47:53 AM »

9 sounds awfully familiar to me......  Cheesy  
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« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2004, 02:53:32 PM »

INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Backwoods', 'finland', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('bathroomsinger', 'belgium', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Blotman', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('boardking', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('dorbel', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('funny', 'canada', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Greenlady', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('inim', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('jopie', 'belgium', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('juanz', 'spain', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mrbond', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('pantar', 'france', 5, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Ramses', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('scardy', 'greatbritain', 7, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Schloti', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Shades', 'netherlands', 0, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('teyakis', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);

round 1 winners: teyakis, pantar, inim, jopie, diane
round 2 winners: inim, diane, burper, Backwoods, juanz, mrbond, pantar, scardy
round 3 winners: burper,scardy,Backwoods,pantar
round 4 winners: scardy,pantar
round 5 winners: scardy

TBot says: T137R1M1 (3-pt): teyakis (1443) def. boardking (1657) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R1M2 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Schloti (1454) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R1M3 (3-pt): inim (1614) def. Shades (1214) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R1M4 (3-pt): jopie (1555) def. bathroomsinger (1512) 5-2
>
TBot says: T137R1M5 (3-pt): diane (1677) def. mano (1762) 4-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. teyakis (1443) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R2M2 (3-pt): inim (1614) def. dorbel (1908) 4-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M3 (3-pt): diane (1677) def. OscarIII (1821) 7-2
>
TBot says: T137R2M4 (3-pt): burper (1698) def. Ramses (1585) 5-1
>
TBot says: T137R2M5 (3-pt): mrbond (1433) def. funny (1695) 5-2
>
TBot says: T137R2M6 (3-pt): Backwoods (1699) def. GreenLady (1184) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M7 (3-pt): juanz (1655) def. jopie (1555) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M8 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Blotman (1864) 3-2
>
TBot says: T137R3M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. inim (1614) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R3M2 (3-pt): burper (1698) def. diane (1677) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R3M3 (3-pt): Backwoods (1699) def. mrbond (1433) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R3M4 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. juanz (1655) 3-2
>
TBot says: T137R4M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. burper (1698) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R4M2 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Backwoods (1699) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R5M1 (5-pt): scardy (1594) def. pantar (1553) 5-1
 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 02:56:48 PM by burper » Logged
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« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2004, 06:14:16 PM »

Quote
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Backwoods', 'finland', 2, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('bathroomsinger', 'belgium', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Blotman', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('boardking', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('burper', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('diane', 'greatbritain', 2, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('dorbel', 'greatbritain', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('funny', 'canada', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Greenlady', 'usa', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('inim', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('jopie', 'belgium', 1, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('juanz', 'spain', 1, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mano', 'france', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('mrbond', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('OscarIII', 'sweden', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('pantar', 'france', 5, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Ramses', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('scardy', 'greatbritain', 7, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Schloti', 'germany', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('Shades', 'netherlands', 0, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('teyakis', 'greatbritain', 1, 'bagolympic', 2, 9, 2004);

round 1 winners: teyakis, pantar, inim, jopie, diane
round 2 winners: inim, diane, burper, Backwoods, juanz, mrbond, pantar, scardy
round 3 winners: burper,scardy,Backwoods,pantar
round 4 winners: scardy,pantar
round 5 winners: scardy

TBot says: T137R1M1 (3-pt): teyakis (1443) def. boardking (1657) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R1M2 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Schloti (1454) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R1M3 (3-pt): inim (1614) def. Shades (1214) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R1M4 (3-pt): jopie (1555) def. bathroomsinger (1512) 5-2
>
TBot says: T137R1M5 (3-pt): diane (1677) def. mano (1762) 4-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. teyakis (1443) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R2M2 (3-pt): inim (1614) def. dorbel (1908) 4-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M3 (3-pt): diane (1677) def. OscarIII (1821) 7-2
>
TBot says: T137R2M4 (3-pt): burper (1698) def. Ramses (1585) 5-1
>
TBot says: T137R2M5 (3-pt): mrbond (1433) def. funny (1695) 5-2
>
TBot says: T137R2M6 (3-pt): Backwoods (1699) def. GreenLady (1184) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M7 (3-pt): juanz (1655) def. jopie (1555) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R2M8 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Blotman (1864) 3-2
>
TBot says: T137R3M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. inim (1614) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R3M2 (3-pt): burper (1698) def. diane (1677) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R3M3 (3-pt): Backwoods (1699) def. mrbond (1433) 3-1
>
TBot says: T137R3M4 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. juanz (1655) 3-2
>
TBot says: T137R4M1 (3-pt): scardy (1594) def. burper (1698) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R4M2 (3-pt): pantar (1553) def. Backwoods (1699) 3-0
>
TBot says: T137R5M1 (5-pt): scardy (1594) def. pantar (1553) 5-1
oops, diane corrects me again, it's session 2.
where is dorbel when i need him???
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 06:14:45 PM by burper » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2004, 05:35:35 AM »

Germany and Usa are not in good health this month  Tears
It's look like France and Great Britain wake up, but wait and watch till the end....

 
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« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2004, 01:23:14 PM »

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[...]
INSERT INTO `Tourneys` VALUES ('inim', 'usa', 2, 'bagolympic', 3, 9, 2004);
[...]

Well, Freudian typo? I was born and raised in Germany, and still live here ... rolleyes  Could you please correct that entry in the database? Thanks a lot in advance!
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« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2004, 06:09:08 AM »

Corrected.

But please don't forget to tell your country to the host each time you sign up in Bago Session.
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« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2004, 05:07:45 PM »

Hey Bago players and Bago TDs !

I may not be able to host my bago session this tuesday ...
I and Poune are waiting for a baby !  Tongue
If you don't believe me, look at the pic !
He must come theses days .... ( term is for tomorrow)
So .... thx to take my host day Smile
I sure will post some pics when it will be the day  rolleyes
 
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« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2004, 05:34:30 PM »

Have a Wonderful Time and safe delivery to you all Smiley Gooooo Poune !!! Smiley All our best from down Under  Tongue  
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« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2004, 08:05:55 PM »

Mes félicitations Mano et poune et heureuse vie au bébé
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« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2004, 12:03:07 PM »

September Bagolympic is on the road with a big fight between Great Britain and France.
Join us tonight  to fight for your country  cool
Standing there
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« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2004, 01:11:03 PM »

Cheesy  Tomawaky i believe Muija is from Finland  Cheesy  
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« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2004, 06:06:07 AM »

Too bad UK is going alone  Sad
Thanks to you grasshopper
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« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2004, 07:42:38 AM »

Following Slots' win in Bago last night, I think it is about time we started to implement some of the things which were discussed at the outset.  Minimum experience requirements would have stopped the situation arising last night - and perhaps a few of the other difficulties we have had.  Wink

For those who dont know - Slots is also DirtyHands (to mention but one other nick) and banned from bago by gogogiz (at least).  Now, although well behaved in the session last night, it does mean we had the same old situation - low experienced player doing well, causing distortion of rating losses.

So - I suggest a minimum experience of 400 matches for players to be able to enter a bago tourney.

(but it aint all bad - Slots is British Wink )
« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 07:43:31 AM by diane » Logged

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« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2004, 03:00:26 PM »

Since DirtyHands was banned by gogo, maybe he (Slots) should be disqualified from last night's tournament, moving all the winners up one notch.

A ratings limit would only eliminate the real newbies.  It only takes a short while to get to 400 experience, so I don't think the problem would be truely solved with a ratings limit.  

What if repbot is implemented with an ISP, so that that a person banned would not be able to join a tourney?  Is that possible?

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« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 03:03:35 PM by socksey » Logged
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« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2004, 03:34:52 PM »

Firstly - repbot limits (with or without ISP info) would have been useless last night - since repbot was unavailable.  An experience limit is always available.

Secondly - I considered the disqualification - but have decided that is not really an option - and last nights results will have to stand.  For instance - the first player to lose to Slots may have won against the next opponent - etc - it is too much to assume the same progression and simply move everyone up one.

As a follow on note - I had never banned DirtyHands from bago - nor was aware that he had been banned, and still dont think there is much justification for banning that nick - since beyond some objectionable shouts - there is no real bad behaviour with regard to tourney play.  The use of a second, low experience, nick for tourney play is something I object strongly to though, because of all the previously covered arguments.  The best way I can see to prevent this - is to limit experience.  We are all also aware that the main rating distortions occur up until the player reaches 400 exp - which is the reason for my choice.

Now - as you pointed out...
Quote
only takes a short while to get to 400 experience
- so yes - the real newbies are excluded - but not for long. I am inclined to think this is a good thing too - since bago is really intended for good players who know how to use FIBS - and intend to stay around, should they do well enough to qualify for a team.  It does, however, stop people creating a nick simply to enter a tournament they could otherwise not enter (whether or not that was the reason behind this players creation of yet another nick).

 
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« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2004, 03:19:22 AM »

I wonder if Diane could explain some things to me.
I think I know what she means by "distortion of rating losses." A good player will certainly play at a level above the 1500 that he/she starts with for a while, but that applies with every new nick opened on fibs and every match that they play until they reach their true level. Why should the rating points that his/her opponent can lose have anything to do with whether or not a person is allowed to enter a tournament?
Can any director ban any player from any and every bago tournament? I recognise the right of a TD to say to a person, I do not accept your entry for this tournament, but what right exists to say that he/she may not play in other tournaments on fibs?
Why does Diane think that there is not much justification for banning DirtyHands on the basis of objectionable shouts, when she has banned players in the past for objectionable shouts? She may of course hold either view, but surely not both?
Why does she think that rating "distortions" only occur up until a player reaches 400 exp? What is magical about 400? A player may reach his true rating with only 100 exp, or not until he/she gets to a 1,000. If the player isn't very good, he may be at his true rating after 1 exp.
Diane tells us that "Bago is really intended for good players who know how to use Fibs". Would she care to justify this shockingly elitist statement and explain exactly why bad players are not welcome? She may also care to define good and bad in this context.
She goes on to tell us that these "good" players are welcome because they will stick around and qualify for a team. In the light of the constant denial that there is any connection between Bago and World Cup, what does this statement mean?
I look forward to a courteous and informed response to these questions.
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« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2004, 05:56:26 AM »

Many players have come to Fibs and leave without return cause Fibs didn't let them a very good first seen  Sad
I think that not accept new players is another way to drive back some other players.

I can understand that it may be difficult to organize tourney when some players are newbies but it's maybe to the accustomed to help those people while the TD 's doing his job.

I will be pleased to see always more and more good people coming here and stay cause they think that Fibs is the First Internet Backgammon Server to play on and that they don't need to go elsewhere as I do.

Yesterday another Bago session with a full player bracket from all over the world show us that our community is growing up and hope it still will long
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« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2004, 07:39:50 AM »

Quote
Why should the rating points that his/her opponent can lose have anything to do with whether or not a person is allowed to enter a tournament?

This has been covered extensively elsewhere, the majority of players do not enjoy playing a high rated player hiding under the guise of a 1500 and 30 exp points player - and this situation was a little worse because there was no indication that this was the case.  

Quote
Can any director ban any player from any and every bago tournament?

No - not as far as I am aware - and DirtyHands would have been able to play were I running it.

Quote
Why does Diane think that there is not much justification for banning DirtyHands on the basis of objectionable shouts

LOL - this is always gonna be difficult to measure - since some of the shouts that gogo objected to were aimed at me - but I never actually found them anything other than in good humour.  So - I guess it is subjective - if I feel a person is deliberately trying to upset me (whether or not they are successful) then I can decide whether or not I want to associate with them - and that is that pesky downside of free speech. Either way - the decision is with the TD.

Quote
Why does she think that rating "distortions" only occur up until a player reaches 400 exp

Of course the player may not have reached their actual rating by then -but the rating calculation changes after 400 - before this 'magical' number the players and opponents rating changes per win and loss is different from after 400.  It is also a little unfair on the newbie who gets matched with an 1800+ player - has a higher probability of losing than when playing other newer players, and yet loses a whole bunch of points for it - how disheartening to the new player is that??


Quote
Diane tells us that "Bago is really intended for good players who know how to use Fibs"

Firstly, this is bagolympics - would you have sent nihilist out to compete in the 1000m in Greece??  The original idea, to some extent, behind this competition was that the best players from each country would play and the best country be identified.  This is lost a little - and it is more open and more fun - which is good.
But secondly - these tournaments tend to be large - the last was 30 players - if the players are inexperienced in using fibs and playing in tournaments - this already long tournament can be drawn out beyond the two hours reasonable playing time.  There is also the risk of non committed players - ie those who get a bye - and get bored waiting and simply leave - or droppers - who then reduce the overall enjoyment of the tourney.


Quote
light of the constant denial that there is any connection between Bago and World Cup

Now - listen carefully - I will only say this once more... Wink

These are two are seperate events - but the first is a qualifying process for the second.  Now - Slots is very likely to win the highest ranked British player this month, but has no intention of playing for the team - and is unlikely to still have that nick in three months!!

Tomawaky

Quote
I think that not accept new players is another way to drive back some other players.

I understand this feeling - and encourage new players to enter all other tournaments - often delaying start times a little to make sure they enter.  I want to be inclusive - not exclusive by default.

Quote
Yesterday another Bago session with a full player bracket from all over the world show us that our community is growing up and hope it still will long

Again - I felt the same - it is nice to see the event popular - and especially nice to see new countries with entrants.  The rest of the players had over 400 exp points though - and my point is this -  It isnt very exclusive to impose this small number on new people - let them use the first 400 games (not matches btw) getting confidence with their interface - inviting/accepting  - learning what a tournament is - how to enter and what happens next.  It doesnt take long - I am pretty sure I got over 400 in my first week on fibs!!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2004, 02:14:26 PM by diane » Logged

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« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2004, 01:22:54 PM »

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Many players have come to Fibs and leave without return cause Fibs didn't let them a very good first seen  Sad
Yes, unfortunately this is true.

Quote
I think that not accept new players is another way to drive back some other players.
No, I don't think so. If a newbie comes to FIBS (s)he has to discover a lot of things first and learn how they work. This starts at FIBS itself and goes on over the bots, tourneys, type of shouts until the mastering of the client. And all this even if the person is already versed with the game. So all this alone is quite exciting. There doesn't need to be just another feature immediately present.

You can also look at it from the long term incentive. A newbie comes and is overwhelmed by all the different kinds of toys in the store. (S)he is trying everything at once, but this leaves only very little time to play with every feature. After a while everything has been tried but due to the short time nothing left a lasting impression. There's nothing new to see and it gets boring.

Why not give those newbies something to look forward to after that stage? Maybe they also have developed some real interest by now, instead of only playing around a bit.

And not mentioning the advantages that brings for TDs.

Quote
I will be pleased to see always more and more good people coming here and stay cause they think that Fibs is the First Internet Backgammon Server to play on and that they don't need to go elsewhere as I do.
Yes, keep coming and stay here (on FIBS)!  Cool!  
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« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2004, 03:08:41 PM »

Thank you Diane. Let's get this rating thing quite clear. When you start playing in a rated system, there is a feature called the ramp, intended to bring the new player to a rating that reflects their true ability as quickly as possible. Thus a newbie playing me in a 3 pointer for example, might get 26 points for winning and drop 10 points for losing (I don't know the exact figures off hand), but my prospective win/loss would be something like 2.2 points for winning and 4.7 for losing, exactly as if the newbie had 1000 experience! Of course that newbie may really be capable of playing at the same level as me, so that if I lose I drop 4.7 points instead of the 3.46 that I would drop had he reached my rating. Wow, I lose 1.24 rating points more. As most players have a rating lower than mine, their potential "loss" is correspondingly smaller. Are you really telling me that people object to this so strongly, that it is a good and valid reason to exclude somebody from a tournament? This just isn't so, people object because like you, they misunderstand how the rating system is applied.
Can I also point out that 400 exp isn't 400 matches, nor is it 400 games. it is the number of matches played, times the length of the matches. 80 five point matches is 400 exp, which could be anything between 80 and 720 games.
You first mentioned that players should have a minimum of 400 experience points in order to weed out players like DirtyHands, who wanted a new nick for this tournament. Now suddenly you think it is also desirable to exclude real newbies, because they might slow up the tournament or even drop. Where is the connection? You already have a rule to cover players playing too slowly don't you? As to dropping, if they drop (an activity hardly confined to newbies) then they are out of the tournament and their opponent goes through. Where's the problem?
Diane, in common with some other TDs, gives the unfortunate impression that FIBS tournaments really are clicquey and exclusive, rather than open and inclusive. This may not be what she and they want, I don't believe that it is, but it is the strong impression given. Let's get people in and get them playing. In my view, the only criteria should be, do they abide by the letter and spirit of the rules during the tournament. Newbies, new nicks, offensive shouts, this has nothing to do with the tournament. If I was  a TD, I could easily draw up a list of fibsters I dislike and exclude them, but why should I? None of them, with the exception of don, have ever disrupted a match while we were playing, nor to my knowledge done so with any other player. The whole point of fibs in my view, is so that we can meet and play with people of all races, religions, politics and points of view. This includes people who have entirely different standards of behaviour. NIHILIST, to choose a name entirely at random, has completely different ideas to mine, as to what constitutes acceptable behaviour in shouts. That doesn't mean that the line I draw is in the right place and I shouldn't attempt to impose that standard on other people. I welcome playing the offensive old bugger at any rating and under any nick.
Finally, can I also point out that for the umpteenth time, Tomawaky has excelled himself with a wise and helpful post. Given that English is not his first language, what gems could we expect if it was. Please feel free to post in French Tomawaky and thank you for all that you have given fibs. You should be an example to all TDs.
 
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« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2004, 04:15:36 PM »

Quote
Finally, can I also point out that for the umpteenth time, Tomawaky has excelled himself with a wise and helpful post. Given that English is not his first language, what gems could we expect if it was. Please feel free to post in French Tomawaky and thank you for all that you have given fibs. You should be an example to all TDs.
Dans le cas ou, je me permettrais de poster en Francais. Je ne suis pas sur de pouvoir faire transparaitre mon opinion et mes sentiments √ɬ  la majorit√ɬ© d'entre vous malheureusement   Cheesy

In the case where I would post in French. I am not on being able to let you pass my opion and my feelings for the majority, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2004, 04:16:04 PM by Tomawaky » Logged

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« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2004, 05:36:26 PM »

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If I was  a TD, ...
Why don't you go ahead and show all current TDs how it's done properly? I haven't seen any tournament of yours yet.

Quote
The whole point of fibs in my view, is so that we can meet and play with people of all races, religions, politics and points of view.
Would you care to explain how Diane or any other TD could impede your choice of who you play or meet on FIBS by disallowing a player from a tournament? Did anybody forbid you to play a particular player on FIBS?
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« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2004, 06:43:45 PM »

Thank you tryout. I was invited to be a TD, in a one-line invitation from somebody called Keyser Soze. I was under the impression that this is in fact burper, though I may be mistaken. I wrote back requesting more information and in reply Keyser withdrew the invitation as I had not displayed "sufficient enthusiasm". Besides, do you really think that only TDs may express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run? If you do, then I find that attitude displays perfectly the arrogant and elitist style of administration that I am attempting to criticise. I hope that you will examine your attitude and bring yourself to agree with me that tournaments should be run for the benefit of those playing in them and that the opinions of those players should be welcomed, not derided.
I am not of course saying that a TD's decision to accept or exclude an entry is relevant to who I choose to play on fibs. My point was, as I think you already understood, is that tournaments should include as wide a range of people as possible. You are entitled to disagree with this, as with any opinion that I express, but the continually offensive tone that you use when speaking to me does you no credit.
Diane noted that bagolympic was originally intended to attract the best players from each country. Really? Intended by whom? Again, we have this elitism, this idea that only strong players are welcome. Dare I suggest that Diane's idea of a strong player starts at her own intermediate rating? Come on guys, get down off this high horse and display some of the tolerance for different types of people and the welcome for new players that should be the lifeblood of the game!  
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« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2004, 07:51:17 PM »

Quote
Quote
Finally, can I also point out that for the umpteenth time, Tomawaky has excelled himself with a wise and helpful post. Given that English is not his first language, what gems could we expect if it was. Please feel free to post in French Tomawaky and thank you for all that you have given fibs. You should be an example to all TDs.
Dans le cas ou, je me permettrais de poster en Francais. Je ne suis pas sur de pouvoir faire transparaitre mon opinion et mes sentiments √ɬ  la majorit√ɬ© d'entre vous malheureusement   Cheesy

In the case where I would post in French. I am not on being able to let you pass my opion and my feelings for the majority, unfortunately.
Si t'as besoins d'aide pour t'exprimer en anglais, tomawaky, tu peus toujours me demander
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« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2004, 11:50:36 PM »

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Dare I suggest that Diane's idea of a strong player starts at her own intermediate rating?
Ok - it is cheap shot time - so I guess the arguments ran out  Wink

And I am the cliquey, exclusive one??  I have never turned a match down with a player based on rating, nor of experience points etc.  I will play anyone and help anyone - ask them.  

And since this has descended into another Diane bashing session - I guess it is time to move on  Cheesy
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 07:05:02 PM by socksey » Logged

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« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2004, 01:28:58 AM »

Diane, read your own posts. It is you who wants to exclude people from bago on grounds of experience and you who thinks that the tournament is intended for "good" players. That is your stated view point, it's not "bashing diane" to point out what you are saying and disagree with it. It is also not a cheap shot to point out that most people's definition starts at around their own rating! I just wondered by what criteria, given that this is the bagolympics (!!), you considered that you were a suitable entrant and a new player, who may be vastly superior to you, not?
 
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« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2004, 05:29:34 AM »

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Si t'as besoins d'aide pour t'exprimer en anglais, tomawaky, tu peus toujours me demander
Feel free to correct me when you discover an horrible post from me and for the most if there is something to correct on FibsLeaGammon pages as Some helpfull players already remarked me  rolleyes

And we all make me improve my english  blink  if there is still something to do with it LOL
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« Reply #117 on: September 24, 2004, 07:32:31 AM »

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Diane, read your own posts. It is you who wants to exclude people from bago on grounds of experience and you who thinks that the tournament is intended for "good" players. That is your stated view point, it's not "bashing diane" to point out what you are saying and disagree with it. It is also not a cheap shot to point out that most people's definition starts at around their own rating! I just wondered by what criteria, given that this is the bagolympics (!!), you considered that you were a suitable entrant and a new player, who may be vastly superior to you, not?
You know, you are demonstrating an almost don like ability to spectacularly miss the point - and now I really will read no more of your deliberate attempts to create arguments out of thin air.

Firstly - I NEVER said I would exclude on rating, secondly - you probably dont know I refused to play in the first few months of this - BECAUSE I am not good enough.  The only reason I play now is because it has changed somewhat.

The point was to prevent people creating new nicks to play in this tournnament for whatever reason - and if a few newbies fall into that - it is a VERY small number - since most are far too busy getting to know the system.
And I really would advise you to sign up as a TD with tourneybot and run some tournaments - and help some newbies into a tournament - and see how time consuming it can be.  Two newbies per tournament can delay start time by 5 or 10 mins - as they struggle to enter.  This is a more serious tournament - people show up (mostly Wink  ) on time - expecting it to begin when it is supposed to begin.
I really do not take your point that to exclude them from one event for one maybe two weeks as they get the hang of things is elitist.  And you can remake it as often as you like, being as nasty to me as you like - I still will not see it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 01:14:43 PM by diane » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: September 24, 2004, 01:47:34 PM »

This is so tiresome. Diane has been one of the few people to absolutely go out of her way to make these events more accessable to ALL. Could people please make sure they have read ALL previous posts on a topic before challenging those that do the most work.

 
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« Reply #119 on: September 24, 2004, 02:05:39 PM »

I don't do this to hurt, I read a post, ask questions and give an opinion. In her latest post Diane says, "I never said I would exclude on rating". As I never suggested that she had, I don't see what point she is making here. She did say that she wished to exclude on experience, in order to weed out players creating a new nick, with which I disagreed. We hold a different viewpoint, where is the hurt? I have read every post on this topic Eddy. I cannot agree with you that excluding players who have been rude in shouts, excluding people who have created a new nick and excluding people with less than 400 exp is "absolutely going out of her way to make these events more accessible to all".
Diane does indeed work hard on the tournaments and has contributed a lot to improving fibs. She should be applauded for this and I applaud it. This shouldn't mean that her statements should be immune from criticism, or that she should close her ears to contrary points of view, although she, Eddy and tryout seem to think that it should. Why is that?
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« Reply #120 on: September 24, 2004, 05:23:34 PM »

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I was invited to be a TD, in a one-line invitation from somebody called Keyser Soze.
Where is it written that you have to be invited to run a tournament, thus being a TD?

All you need is a pencil and a piece of paper and a lot of good will. There's no rule that a tourney can only be run with the help of Tourneybot or tbot.

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Besides, do you really think that only TDs may express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run? If you do, then I find that attitude displays perfectly the arrogant and elitist style of administration that I am attempting to criticise.
You imply far too much in your posts. Do you think this is a good basis for a discussion? I'd appreciate if you restrict yourself to write about yourself and not try to put any nonsense into other people's mouth.

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You are entitled to disagree with this, as with any opinion that I express, but the continually offensive tone that you use when speaking to me does you no credit.
Could it be your  bias while reading what I write that makes you think that?

Please go ahead and elaborate on the difference between the following two quotes. I'm very curious about your allegations.

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Would you care to explain how Diane or any other TD could impede your choice of who you play or meet on FIBS by disallowing a player from a tournament? Did anybody forbid you to play a particular player on FIBS?
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Diane tells us that "Bago is really intended for good players who know how to use Fibs". Would she care to justify this shockingly elitist statement and explain exactly why bad players are not welcome? She may also care to define good and bad in this context.
I'm noting your ability to use the 3rd person during a discussion with that same person.

Also, I'm getting the impression that you think repeating incorrect statements or allegations will make them right. Or do you hope that people will simply believe it when you have said it the umteenth time?

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Come on guys, get down off this high horse and display some of the tolerance for different types of people and the welcome for new players that should be the lifeblood of the game!
Here we go again. Nonsense allegations and implications...
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« Reply #121 on: September 24, 2004, 05:43:08 PM »

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Diane does indeed work hard on the tournaments and has contributed a lot to improving fibs. She should be applauded for this and I applaud it.
So far I've only seen you bickering around.

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This shouldn't mean that her statements should be immune from criticism, or that she should close her ears to contrary points of view, although she, Eddy and tryout seem to think that it should. Why is that?
Why is it that you always imply wrong things? Are you doing this on purpose?

And how about airing your "criticism" in another way than that only your point of view is correct? Contrary points of view seem to be fine only when it doesn't apply to you.
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« Reply #122 on: September 24, 2004, 05:57:28 PM »

Well tryout, it's not a difficult question. Do you really think that only TDs may express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run? An answer would clarify many things.
I may indeed be assuming too much in crediting you with an offensive tone. You may care to reassure me that that is not the case, as in the past I have attempted to reassure you.
I don't find it possible to elaborate on the difference between the two quotes that you ask me to compare. The difference between them is that one quote is by you and one is by me. As they are about different subjects, I fail to understand the point that you are trying to make. Perhaps you would care to elaborate?
Generally speaking, I use the first person when addressing somebody in particular, as in a reply to their post. I tend to use the third person when making points of my own. If I sometimes confuse the cases and step outside that convention, it is just bad grammar. What is your point?
Which of my statements or allegations are incorrect? Did diane really not say this? She has certainly said something different on other occasions. Which should I choose?
Finally, if my "allegations and implications" are really nonsense, then please demonstrate that this is so by refuting them. An answer to the question which starts this post and a clear statement that you do not approve of banning players for rudeness in shouts, multi nicks and lack of experience, would demonstrate amply that the TDs in general and you in particular, are indeed democratic, inclusive and definitely not cliquey.
 
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« Reply #123 on: September 24, 2004, 07:40:46 PM »

Great minds think alike, diane!  I was thinking the "don" thought at apparently the same time.   Tongue

Dorbel, I see where you are trying to go with this (maybe), but I must say that your tone could improve.  

Diane has done an excellent job as a TD.  Your post seemed critical.  From that point onward, I became defensive of diane and wanted to bop you on the head.  Not that I would ever do that, but I only felt like it for a moment.   :angry:  

Please join the TD's, dorbel!  Tourneybot has free access.  You keep talking about it, and keep being critical of how the tourneys are run. but you haven't experienced walking in our shoes yet.  May I ask why?  

Having a newbie in your tournament can be rather trying, to say the least.  Having a very slow EXPERIENCED player can be trying, as well.  We are expecting to be tied up for a minimum amount of time when we host a tournament.  When that time extends by as little as a half hour and sometimes up to 1 1/2 hours, it can reek havoc to our other life.  I suspect this is why some of the TD's rarely run a tournament and why we don't have more TD's.

I say to you that if I were not allowed to ban whoever I think needs to be banned, as a TD, I wouldn't be TDing.  We put up with a lot that the casual observer doesn't see.  Most of us rarely bans anyone, so I think we should be given a lot of credit rather than your (or anyone's) criticism.

Oh, and did I mention the player who continually shouts that I won't allow him in my tourneys, who has always been welcome in my tourneys?  And, did I mention this same player has also harrassed me through at least one entire tourney with constant questions in chats?  This sheds a whole new light to multi-tasking!   24

As for banning anyone because of what they say in shouts, I don't agree with that, for myself, but I do, absolutely agree, that any TD should have the right to ban anyone they choose within their own tournament.  As far as I've seen, we have a very fair group who tend to use excellent judgment.  I'm sure none of us are perfection, but certainly, all of us try hard.

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« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 07:53:30 PM by socksey » Logged
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« Reply #124 on: September 24, 2004, 07:53:11 PM »

Some people contribute nothing to fibs socksey. You contribute, diane contributes, tryout contributes, even I contribute in my own way, but I choose not to contribute as a TD. I will ask you what tryout seems so reluctant to answer. Should only TDs express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run?


 
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« Reply #125 on: September 24, 2004, 08:00:54 PM »

Certainly, all opinions are welcome, as well as constructive critism, I'm sure.  Just be careful you don't start beating up on one of us, or you will have all of us in your face.

We can all learn from ideas, and thank you for the ones you have expressed in a kindly manner.   rolleyes

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« Reply #126 on: September 24, 2004, 10:25:13 PM »

I think the point dorbel is trying to make is:
If TD's are contributing tourneys to fibs for the players , why can't the players critisize on them?

I think this is a valid question.

Are TD's holding the tournaments for themselves or for others?
In the end that is the question. This prolly differs for every TD.

Just my one and a half cents (and i am NOT a TD btw)
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« Reply #127 on: September 24, 2004, 10:43:19 PM »

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If TD's are contributing tourneys to fibs for the players , why can't the players critisize on them?

I think this is a valid question.

Are TD's holding the tournaments for themselves or for others?
In the end that is the question. This prolly differs for every TD.

 
All questions are valid - all attacks are not.  I have said this over and over - I will listen to anything as long as it does not come as an attack.

I still think there is merit in limiting this single tournament to players who have been here a little while - and have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.  I have even listened  Wink

Also - I appreciate that others feel differently - and thus they can do as they wish - but I will impose this small limitation to ensure the majority enjoy this now very popular tournament.

I will continue to make sure as many as possible enjoy tournaments in general - and if that means I have to type the same stuff 50 times an hour - I will keep on doing it.

All suggestions to improve tournaments are welcome - and I will take on board as many as possible (just as I have always done) - but really the amount of discontent the situation on tuesday caused to what is otherwise a great and fun event was very upsetting.

I just want to fix that - and I cannot see the harm in saying this one tournament is for slightly more experienced players.  I also must point out that I have chased down players who were unaware - newish, oldish and genereally tourney shy to come and join in. If I have to turn someone away with this setting - I will be sure and explain it thoroughly - and make sure that they know they are welcome as soon as they reach the requisite number of exp points.
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« Reply #128 on: September 25, 2004, 08:14:04 PM »

cool gogogiz had banned dirtyhands (slots and blot)from his tourneys because,

 cool a/,Its better than shooting him
 
 cool b/he said nasty things in shout

 cool c/he has been sending lots of messages of an offending nature to people on fibs.

 cool if you really want to know what kind of stuff ring (+0044)  08984433221199 or visit www.imawankapervertstalker.com  

 cool IMPORTANT this is not a pole !!

 cool ps, webrunner its not a real number.

 cool Sunglasses sponser mrbond  cool  
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« Reply #129 on: September 26, 2004, 09:18:34 PM »

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Well tryout, it's not a difficult question. Do you really think that only TDs may express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run? An answer would clarify many things.
I'm astonished.

Firstly, that you keep on implying nonsense, such as that I ever said before "that only TDs may express an opinion as to how tournaments should be run". And please don't try to weasel out. The formulation of "do you really think" leaves no choice than to understand that I stated it before. Which of course I have not.

Secondly, may I help your memory and point you to what I replied to you a month ago in another thread on this site:
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But naturally, we are open to well meant, constructive suggestions. However, we still reserve to have our own opinion.
If you believe that my statement is no answer to your not difficult question I will spell it out clearly: It goes without saying that everybody can have and state her/his own opinion how to run tournaments.

It must however be expected that other people, including TDs, have a different opinion and will not simply follow whatever they are criticized for.

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I may indeed be assuming too much in crediting you with an offensive tone. You may care to reassure me that that is not the case, as in the past I have attempted to reassure you.
My intentions are far from offending you. Why should I?

But I find it rather annoying that I have to respond to your accusations, wrong allegations and nonsense. And it appears that you don't stop doing it.

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I don't find it possible to elaborate on the difference between the two quotes that you ask me to compare. The difference between them is that one quote is by you and one is by me. As they are about different subjects, I fail to understand the point that you are trying to make. Perhaps you would care to elaborate?
No? In your post to which I was replying you accused me of "the continually offensive tone that you use when speaking to me". Therefore the quote of your post, which it seems you're ignoring. So the point is obviously your (again) wrong accusation.

Your accusation refered to my post from which I took the subsequent quote, that you apparently feel to be "continually offensive".
Then I took the freedom of quoting a post of you which uses the same formulation like I did, with the exception that you for some reason chose to use the 3rd person.

Based on the assumption that you of course do not voice yourself in an offensive tone I don't see how I could when I used the same phrasing, but even with a more personal attitude instead of your (at least seemingly) condescending use of the 3rd person.

Understood?

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Finally, if my "allegations and implications" are really nonsense, then please demonstrate that this is so by refuting them.
E.g. see above. And you are already now wasting a lot of my time with your endless wrong implications, allegations and accusations. If you're not happy with my response I guess I'll have to stop to have conversations with you since I won't turn it into an hobby entertaining you on this board.





 
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« Reply #130 on: September 26, 2004, 09:19:49 PM »

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Some people contribute nothing to fibs socksey. You contribute, diane contributes, tryout contributes, even I contribute in my own way, but I choose not to contribute as a TD.
Uhm, sorry if I miss the obvious. In which way have you contributed to FIBS?

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I will ask you [socksey] what tryout seems so reluctant to answer.
I'm very sorry that I don't have continuous internet access and neither all day to devote to you. You're succeeding in annoying me more and more with your attitude.




 
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« Reply #131 on: September 26, 2004, 09:21:05 PM »

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I say to you that if I were not allowed to ban whoever I think needs to be banned, as a TD, I wouldn't be TDing. We put up with a lot that the casual observer doesn't see. Most of us rarely bans anyone, so I think we should be given a lot of credit rather than your (or anyone's) criticism.
Quote
As for banning anyone because of what they say in shouts, I don't agree with that, for myself, but I do, absolutely agree, that any TD should have the right to ban anyone they choose within their own tournament. As far as I've seen, we have a very fair group who tend to use excellent judgment. I'm sure none of us are perfection, but certainly, all of us try hard.
Quote
All questions are valid - all attacks are not. I have said this over and over - I will listen to anything as long as it does not come as an attack.
Full acknowledgment. All of the above can't be repeated enough. I've tried to say this in quite a lot of previous posts. Not sure whether I succeeded, though I hope so.

TDs, keep up the good work!  Yes




 
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« Reply #132 on: September 27, 2004, 03:51:17 AM »

Thank you for your answer tryout. It is now quite clear to me that you do indeed welcome well-meant and constructive criticism. I can't imagine why I was unable to see that before.
In your posts you refer again and again to "accusations" and "allegations" that I make against you. I have reread every post in this thread and can find neither of these in any post made by me, apart from (1) suggesting that I found your tone offensive and (2) suggesting that you among others felt that TDs should not be criticised. As you have now reassured me on one point and corrected me on the other I am more than happy to withdraw these slurs on your character.
Finally I must decline to list what I give back to the backgammon community in general and to fibs in particular, on the grounds that to do so would be tasteless self-advertisment.

 
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« Reply #133 on: October 05, 2004, 06:08:19 AM »

HI there !
Tonight I will be back and host the second Session of the october's Bagolympic. I wait for this occasion hundreds of players  Cool!

See you tonight .......
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 06:09:05 AM by Tomawaky » Logged

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« Reply #134 on: October 05, 2004, 07:16:13 AM »

Does this mean I get a session off - YIPEEE   :jump2:

I shall try to come and just enjoy playing for once  Cheesy  
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« Reply #135 on: October 05, 2004, 10:23:16 AM »

You're welcome diane
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