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Offline Tomawaky

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« on: July 06, 2005, 06:21:18 PM »
Semi Finals Results :
spock win over Serafin
snowflakes win over amarganth

Due to the behaviour of snowflakes and the fact that he refuse any explanation with me. I decided to ban him from the FLG.
So spock would become the League Master of the session 21.
I would have prefer a better end, but I think it's the best thing to do.
Any comment are accepted even snowflakes'ones.
I keep 2 days of reflexion  before validating  the point.  
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« on: July 06, 2005, 06:21:18 PM »

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2005, 06:54:21 PM »
I don't know the details about the ban of snowflakes, and if I did, I wouldn't want to discuss this matter here.

But if  snowflakes is banned, I would propose let amarganth play the final against Spock (instead of having no final).    < sorry Spock B) >

Just my few cents ....


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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2005, 06:54:21 PM »

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2005, 10:01:02 PM »
It's what I thought first but is it correct to have a Masterchampion who have lost in play-off ?
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2005, 11:01:50 PM »
Quote
It's what I thought first but is it correct to have a Masterchampion who have lost in play-off ?
Well, I would argue: amarganth played against someone who got banned. How can you lose against someone who is not part of the league? This match simply does not count for the league.


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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2005, 11:01:50 PM »

Offline snowflakes

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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2005, 11:28:24 PM »
This is how I find out I am banned from FLG?  You were the one in the wrong and I get banned?  Amazing.

Yesterday I sent an email to Amarganth to try and set up a match between him and I to play our semi final match.  We had exchange many emails trying to set up times.  So yesterday I simply said to him "I am login on to fibs now, if you are around lets play".  Amarganth saw my email and logged into fibs.  We started our match and were about half way through when Tomawaky logged in and started watching.  Immediately Tomawaky started kibitzing, giving me crap about how I set up the time to play Amarganth.  First let me say, there is a history between Tomawaky and I.  Last league session he started watching one of my league matches and I was losing 6-0.  Tomawaky says to me, "Good Match".  While losing 6-0, I didn't enjoying hearing that and I told him so.  He then proceeded to give me crap through kibitzes.  So I banned him from watching.  Isn't it common courtesy to not kibitz while watching someone play a league or semi final match??  Especially kibitzing negative comments!!  

Now back to yesterday.  So Tomawaky makes his comment about how I set up the match and I reply "Are you for real?".   He then starts kibitzing some nonsense.  I could feel myself ready to explode.  and I did...I called Tomawaky and a$$hole and I banned him and gagged him.  

I apologized to Amarganth that any of that even had to happen.  If you want to ban me from league because you have some boner with me.  So be it.  I just hope you know what you are doing.

snowflakes
« Last Edit: July 06, 2005, 11:33:13 PM by snowflakes »

Offline zakasax

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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2005, 12:19:55 AM »
Here we have just one side of the medal.

Hopefully Tomawaky will explain us his version now.

I have played snowflakes several times and never had any problem.

I would really appreciate a contribute from all those ones partecipated that match. It would help for sure.

thank you

zak

Offline socksey

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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2005, 12:42:26 AM »
I agree we need more info in order to give an opinion.

socksey



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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2005, 01:15:34 AM »
Another fine example of the Eurotrash and their little censorship games.....

If I was from Europe, I'd feel embarrassed that you're being represented by these idiots.....


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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2005, 01:15:34 AM »

Offline dicemaster

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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2005, 05:20:12 AM »
I would agree that more facts are needed or at least more views of those involved. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between the email message that was sent to those playing league gammon and the parties involve. It is a shame that I and I won't speak for others, tried to play my matches and contribute to the league and now find out that this happens to players at the end. I don't think this is the kind of message that should be sent.

This is just my 2cents, take it or leave it.
The easiest solution isn't always the best.

Offline EddieVedd

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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2005, 05:46:40 AM »
Now I'm not from Europe (of course that's not relevant, just an offer of conflict from one of the bait kings) but I am not embarrassed to have Tomawaky representing me, FLG or anything else and I don't need any more information to have an opinion on this.

I personally have seen many examples of this sort fo crap to be convinced who is in the wrong here.

For just one relavant example :

2 or 3 Sessions ago Snowflakes was overtly rude to me in an prolonged and unprovoked attack. I assumed at the time his association with nihilist was the cause (I'm not a fan). Like a school kid he brought in the head master (Tomawaky) to watch over our Masters match after he'd tried to convince Toma' I "started it". Toma' wisely chose to leave it alone. Snowflakes cried and whined some more after i beat him and next session I was seperated/moved to Masters B from A.

I thought Tomawaky handled this truely childish episode well then and I'm sure he has done so this time also.

In my years here i have noticed there are only a few RUDE idiots. Biggles is one of them. Nihilist is another and as of 2 or 3 sessions ago snowflakes joined their ranks in my books.  It is a shame this happens dicemaster, all i do is try to not let the big picture be lost because of these few imbiciles.

These handful of people clearly derive pleasure from injecting conflict into otherwise friendly pursuits. Then, as they chuckle into their keyboards, they attempt to turn the friendly masses on each other by fingering blame at those least deserving.

As for the finals........my suggestion would be (if you can all be bothered) let Amarganth play the next in line (3rd place getter) from Master A. ie who would have made the final if snowflakes wasn't there. The winner then plays Spock. Otherwise i would be truely happy to see Spock crowned the worthy (and friendly) winner for this session.

Peace. Ed.





 
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2005, 07:18:43 AM »
Quote
Yesterday I sent an email to Amarganth to try and set up a match between him and I to play our semi final match. ............


snowflakes
About the email :
I don't think that after some mail exchanged that it's the best way to send one more saying "Hi I'm there. Can we play ?"
You know that the last session have been close some time ago and I email you both amarganth and snowflakes to plan your match as soon as possible.

About the kibitz:
I don't know exactly what mean "Tomawaky started kibitzing, giving me crap about how I set up the time to play Amarganth." But I just start kibitzing saying "hello and Snow, do you think that it is the best way to plan your match ?" Then yes I agree with you "You could feel yourself ready to explode and answer something like a$$hole to me.
This his maybe your way to answer "hi" but I am not really appreciated it.
You're right it was certainly not the good time to ask you that kind of thing and I stop immediatly, just asking you to have a chat with you after your match.
You drop immedialty after.
So I email you to have some answer to my questions and you never answer...

About the history:
Sorry but I have no history with you. I really don't remember what you're talking about. Maybe I watched your match ! Maybe you were losing ! Even maybe I said "Good match". But really don't remember and I Surely not proceeded to give you crap through kibitzes. And I hope that player I meet on fibs can't remember the last time I made some kind of negative comments !!!!

About your last sentence "If you want to ban me from league because you have some boner with me" :
I have nothing against you, and I try to host FLG the best way I can. I am not saying it is perfect.
I just ban you cause you refuse any discussion with me and I can't manage the FLG with players refusing contact.
As I said, I give me 2 days reflexion to change my mind, but it seems that you don't want to go in the right way and I can't see any kind of constructive things in your comments.
I Manage the League for my pleasure and yours but don't want to be bother with people like you.

I remind you the sentence at the homepage
"Be courteous and fair, respect other, enjoy this board game and roll your dice."

I am not sure that you respect me, and you confirmed it to me. So go your way. I don't want to pollute your freedom any more.

 
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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2005, 07:25:31 AM »
Quote
Another fine example of the Eurotrash and their little censorship games.....

If I was from Europe, I'd feel embarrassed that you're being represented by these idiots.....


Bigg
Hi Biggles, I really do not understand your comment.
There is no censure
I represent nothing
I live on earth the same planet as you. I feel not embarrassed.
 
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2005, 07:25:31 AM »

Offline amarganth

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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2005, 09:15:59 AM »
Hi all

From my point of view: it is correct, what Snowflakes said. That was the way we tried to find a time to play with several mails. The very first mails between us, I must explain Snowflakes, that he *is* in the semi final. He didn't know that. But we found a time and played our match.

We (Snowflakes) and me had an interesting and friendly match. Without any rude words. After banning Tomawaky from watching our match, i told Snowflakes, that I'm not happy with that.

I would not be happy, to play the final against Spock. The reason: Snowflakes won our match (13:12, btw  ;) ), not me. So it would not be fair, to play the final now after the ban.

Generally said (as best as I can in english): I like to play for the league. I like to win and a like to loose (a little bit less). Most important for me is: we have a good and friendly match without rude words, that smells like a fight. If that would be the case, I would stop playing in leagues/tourneys.

I like to thank you for your work, Tomawaky, whatever the decision would be.  :yes:

 
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Offline tryout

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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2005, 11:51:20 AM »
Quote
This is how I find out I am banned from FLG?  You were the one in the wrong and I get banned?  Amazing.

Why doesn't this surprise me? Well, it sounds all too familiar. We've heard the very same words from biggles, nihilist, souptree and zyxtcba before.

What's truely amazing however, is with what self-righteousness and acted innocence they start to whine after they went yet another time too far.

Quote
Last league session he [tomawaky] started watching one of my league matches and I was losing 6-0.  Tomawaky says to me, "Good Match".

Saying "Hi and gm" and with this greeting the players is common courtesy. Some, who believe more in dice, may prefer to wish "gl" instead of "gm". Apparently, snowflakes has a huge problem with polite behaviour, since it's not the first time he went nuts after being greeted by a watcher. During my last league match with him the very same thing happened. Kari came watching and greeted us by kibitzing "Hi,  gm". He got immediately barked at by snowflakes and soon after gagged and blinded. I don't know why I tried to explain that it is meant as a wish and greeting. It was no use anyway.

Quote
I could feel myself ready to explode.  and I did...I called Tomawaky and a$$hole and I banned him and gagged him.

Yes, this seems to be the standard reflex. You know the dogs by their smell...



 
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Offline snowflakes

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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2005, 12:51:15 PM »
This will be the last I speak of this until a more appropriate time....

Tomawaky I did confuse you with Kari.  It was kari that jumped on my case during a league match last session and started at me in kibitzes while I was playing.  But Tomawaky what you did was uncalled for and banning me when you are in the wrong is just a dick move.  Like I said, this will be brought up again, when both parties can discuss this face to face.

Take care,
snowflakes

Offline snowflakes

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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2005, 12:53:36 PM »
Oh and Eddie, we both know exactly what happened between you and I.  Nice story there.  You are a good fiction writer.

So your story is that I harassed you and then I filed a complaint with Tomawaky and asked him to watch our match.  Yeah that makes sense.  

My match with you was my first bad experience playing in league since I started some 2 years or so ago.  I know I can be a dick in shouts or if someone attacks me, I'll dish it right back at them.  But I would never harass an opponent, especially in a league or any organized tourney type match.

Eddie you were nothing but an A-hole towards me, sending me kibitzes and tells, commenting on my play.  Oh and the best part was when you dropped the match after I took a big lead and you started playing another match with someone.  Thats when I sent the chat logs to Tomawaky and told him what happened and how I would like an official there when you resumed.  Tomawaky was zero help in this matter.  

League used to be a lot of fun but has left a sour taste in my mouth.  Thanks Tomawaky, Kari, and Eddie.

To be honest, I was looking to drop out of FLG after the experience with Eddie, but didn't want it to look like you guys got the best of me.  

Take care and remember things always come around full circle.

snowflakes

Oh and one last thing (and this really will be my last post in this thread).  Tomawaky you sent me an email many hours after the match took place between Amarganth and myself.  That email address I use only for fibs and FLG.  I checked that email the next day and saw you email asking why I called an you a$$hole.  I responded explaining I didn't appreciate your negative kibitzs towards me while I was in the middle of a semi final league match.  I then went to the FLG site, well less than 24 hours after the match and I couldn't confirm the match because I had been banned.  So Tomawaky, 2 days to reflect before making a decision?  hmm  yeah right.  You guys were looking to provoke me, both you and kari.  Well good job, you got what you wanted.  Maybe you guys should follow your own advice and rules of not talking while watching an FLG orgainized match.  

I'm out,
Peace
« Last Edit: July 07, 2005, 04:05:00 PM by snowflakes »

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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2005, 12:53:36 PM »

Offline Kari_Grandi

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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2005, 01:21:06 PM »
Snow, we both know (and tryout) that I only said 'hi, gm' as I always greet ppl when I go to watch somebodys match.
So leave me out of your ridiculous bs!!

Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2005, 04:40:11 PM »
Quote
From my point of view: it is correct, what Snowflakes said. That was the way we tried to find a time to play with several mails. The very first mails between us, I must explain Snowflakes, that he *is* in the semi final. He didn't know that. But we found a time and played our match.

We (Snowflakes) and me had an interesting and friendly match. Without any rude words. After banning Tomawaky from watching our match, i told Snowflakes, that I'm not happy with that.





So what is the problem here? Maybe I'm missing something, but Snowflakes' opponent had no problem intially, and actually agrees with him.

I know snowflakes well, and as he readily admits he has a huge bark, but unless he feels he is provoked he is always courteous during matches, especially in league.

As for the 'good match' quote. If I was playing a match, and someone watching said that to me (before it is over) when I am 6-0 down, I would of politely told them to go and have intercourse with themselves.

Finally it is not a God given right to watch a match, and if my opponent or I are not comfortable with someone not watching; take offence to something said or generally do not appreciate someone else talking, then so be it.
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Offline Mookie

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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2005, 05:36:32 PM »
Quote
So what is the problem here? Maybe I'm missing something, but Snowflakes' opponent had no problem intially, and actually agrees with him.

As for the 'good match' quote. If I was playing a match, and someone watching said that to me (before it is over) when I am 6-0 down, I would of politely told them to go and have intercourse with themselves.

 
Hi all:

While I'm certainly friends with both Shuggie and snowflakes (even if they refuse to admit it), I don't think my feelings about this one should be suspicious in the least.  Shuggie's point is not only reasonable but it should carry the day.  If the very opponent found no "bannable" problem with snow's action, it seems the issue emerges externally.  

Ultimately, why does everyone get so bent out of shape about words on a screen.  I mean, I sorta get it--my feelings have been hurt before here and elsewhere--but one look at msnbc and the sight of people being pulled from rubble, and I wonder why a snowflake's tantrum, or a biggles' bite, would actually bother anyone.

Finally, I actually have said "Good Match" to shuggie before a match was over.  He actually did tell me to have intercourse with myself.  And while difficult, I did follow up on his suggestion. And WOW, i'm good.

mookie
 

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2005, 07:44:04 PM »
Quote
Finally it is not a God given right to watch a match ...
Well, I think a tournament director  IS allowed to watch any match from a tournament series he is directing. During the match I would not kibitz (excempt a "hi, gl" or something like that), unless I know for sure the opponents don't have problems with watchers kibitzing. [I personally usually have no problems at all if watchers kibitz during my matches.]

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Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2005, 08:22:43 PM »
Hardy of course that is aceptable for a Tourney director. However if someone takes offence to something that it is said, it doesn't matter who you are; you may well get a response that you do not like.

And as I pointed out Aram had no problem so why did Tom?  
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2005, 09:09:16 PM »
Quote
... However if someone takes offence to something that it is said, it doesn't matter who you are ...
You are absolutely right Shuggie. But I can't really believe that Tomawaky started to offend someone. And I witnessed the above mentioned match tryout-snowflakes, where Kari entered wished "hi, gm!" and saw the reactions of snowflakes   :furios:

Perhaps two people met, who tend to overreact. Why can't people just have a good time onFIBS?  :grouphug:

CU there soon,

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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2005, 09:20:01 PM »
From someone that has been around a while at FIBS....it's very easy to see what has transpired over the years......

(1) The self appointed Euro tourney directors that started FIBSLeague and tourneybot tourneys started off doing a tremendous job of promoting play and making sure everyone was included.

(2) When things spoken in shouts that happened to be between US/Europe players or TDs or personal conflicts started happening between them, the TDs took their new found powers and decided to singlehandedly exclude US players in an effort to censor or control what they said either in shouts or between them personally.  (I personally had Tomawaky threaten me on more than one occasion of being kicked out of FibsLeague simply for things being shouted).  

(3) TDs start banning people from tournaments and league for shouts or simply because they don't like the person, and a HUGE majority of these are Euro TDs kicking out or banning a US player.  I have a hard time thinking of a Euro TD kicking out or banning another Euro player, and in fact can't think of a single occurence of this.

Interesting individual examples to think about:

- NIHILIST not being allowed to play team league simply over a team-name
- Team Grog (an all American team) going 11-0 in the first team league session and never having it posted, nor recognized on the FIBS league board.
- Snowflakes being harassed, when he is simply ASKING for TDs not to kibitz or comment during his match (ESPECIALLY a TD coming in saying 'Good Match' when he's down 6-0 and there is already tension between the 2 parties involved)
- tryout banning people (all US players btw) left and right because they found it funny that he would be compared to a nazi for kicking people out of his tourneys for personal stuff that had nothing to do with his tournaments.
- the Euros continually changing BagOlympic times to suit the needs on their end without considering the needs of all involved, or at least making it very difficult.  btw, BagoOlympics is a joke.....none of the good US players even bother
   
 
The list goes on and on and on.   If the Euros feel a burning desire to suppress free speech and thoughts on shouts because their little feelings get hurt, must they keep taking it to the backgammon forum and ruin leagues and tournaments?  Why not take it to shouts/tells where it started and deal with the personal conflicts like adults insteading of using their 'pretend' powers to limit playing experieces on what is supposed to be a backgammon site?  This latest example from snowflakes is just another example of someone (another Euro) not liking snowflakes and his behavior on shouts as a reason to justify kicking him out of league.  

You Euros really need to grow up and quit acting like babies......if someone says something you don't like, confront them face to face about it and not use it as a ridiculous reason to not let good players play.  Enough already.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2005, 09:22:54 PM by Biggles »
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2005, 09:57:43 PM »
Biggles, the times of BagOlympics were selected in that way, that the TDs that applied for that job were available. If there were 2 or 3 players that would be willing to organize envents at times that suit US players it would be great! The "self appointed Euro tourney directors"  are the only ones who took the initiative. So why cry instead of acting as a TD yourself?

I have seen no action of TDs that was based on nationality, only on misbehaviour. Maybe added some misunderstandings because of different cultures?! So I think we should stop argueing on a US vs. Euro basis. That doesn't help us any further.

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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2005, 10:12:17 PM »
If you can give me a case of a Euro banning or kicking out another Euro, I might let it slide but there isn't one single case of it, so my argument still holds true.  

You might want to look at it, before dismissing it without any merit.

 
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2005, 10:16:05 PM »
Quote
If you can give me a case of a Euro banning or kicking out another Euro, I might let it slide ...
If you give me an example of a US TD kicking out a US player I accept your argument.

And how about MY other points?


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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2005, 10:19:04 PM »
Socksey has banned several US players.......glad you finally conceded my point.  

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Offline dorbel

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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2005, 10:27:15 PM »
It is difficult to understand why people who react to any and every difficult situation with insult, cursing and rudeness, take such exception when other people decline to admit them to their leagues and tournaments. If all those so banned are Americans, then perhaps we could draw some inference from that, although I am sure that we are all too polite to do so! Happily, the very great majority of American fibsters that I have had the pleasure of competing with over the years, bring only credit to the game and their country. Sadly, we have not always, or indeed ever, been able to say the same of Biggles! Spare us the lectures Mr Moral Majority!  

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2005, 10:31:04 PM »
Quote
Socksey has banned several US players.......

Could you get more precise?

Quote
.......glad you finally conceded my point. 

I must have missed something.


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Offline diane

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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2005, 10:34:17 PM »
Unfortunately - I am forced to agree with biggles  - I can only think of one euro player who came close to the general unpleasant behaviour exhibited by some of the banned american ones (cheating and shouting unacceptable material)  - and he didnt even come close to being banned - nay, he remains on very good terms with all tourney directors.

Oh, but that is just my personal beef - but wait - aren't all these just personal beefs??  My beef was based on bad behaviour in a tourney, and subsequent unsportsmanly behaviour.  All grounds as valid as any documented here for a ban - but none was ever administered.

I cannot stand to see inequities in the treatment of players - and once again - we see exactly that.

 
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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2005, 10:37:08 PM »
Dorbel,

We've played a few times in leagues and tournaments....

Please name one occasion in league or tournament play where I've insulted or been abrasive during a match.  The answer is Never.  As snowflakes has also admitted, during league or tournament matches, I say nothing derogatory or distractive, in fact I usually say nothing at all except a 'gl' at the beginning.

You're proving my point without even realizing it.....

What's said in shouts has NOTHING to do with what happens in league or tournament play.  What part of this statement don't you get?  You keep missing the point.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2005, 10:37:48 PM by Biggles »
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Offline diane

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« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2005, 10:40:54 PM »
Oh, but I still think he would benefit from reading a copy of 'How to win freinds and influence people'  ;)  
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Offline dorbel

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« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2005, 10:49:31 PM »
I don't personally find you particularly abrasive during matches Biggles. Your standard whining about bullshit dice and your complete inability to accept defeat in anything approaching a polite manner is amusing to me actually. It is you that misses the point of international competition I feel.
As to my failing to understand your point that what happens in shouts should be irrelevant, I understand what you are trying to say, I just don't happen to agree with it. Incidentally, in the only tournament that I directed on fibs, I refused to accept one entry as you know. The other, who was disqualified during the tournament was from Australia.
 

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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2005, 11:01:45 PM »
LOL.....Dorbel

Now I know you're desperate as hell......If there is one thing I DONT ever do during league or tournament matches is complain about dice.   Simply no point.  I think you got the wrong guy.

And again, the banning that is taking place is over what's taking place on SHOUTS or TELLS outside of matches, not during the match.  I keep trying to point you in that direction and you keep running in the other direction with your blindfold on, dorbel.  Please stay on topic.  What I do or say (which is absolutely nothing) during a tournament/league match has NOTHING to do with this thread.


"It is you that misses the point of international competition I feel."
Actually dorbel, hard as it is to believe BAGO was originally my idea.......tryout (because he's a very angry person) won't admit it, but I had been writing Tomawaky and him discussing the possibility of putting together a World Cup type concept for FIBS long before it was actually ever built.  Most of my ideas were put in BAGO and am glad it finally got off the ground.  It really lost a lot of its charm when all this stuff started happening though, as you can probably understand.  





 
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Offline gammboy

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« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2005, 11:37:25 PM »
I'm kind of a outsider to this discussion, not being involved in the leagues and such, but it seems liks such a simple conflict.  If I'm involved in playing a match, and you want to watch, WATCH...  but STFU while you're doing it.   $DIEITY knows that I need all the concentration I can muster to lose gracefully.

Based on what I've seen here, Snowflakes is right and should not have been banned.  Anyone (TDs included) who watches his match should STFU until its over or until one of the players speaks to them.  Thats just common courtesy.

My .02, for what its worth.

GB

 

Offline socksey

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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2005, 12:19:29 AM »
Quote
I have a hard time thinking of a Euro TD kicking out or banning another Euro player, and in fact can't think of a single occurence of this.

Perhaps there are less vociferous Euro players or perhaps the handful of Americans we have who behave badly stand out more.   -_-

Quote
Socksey has banned several US players.......

Yes, please be more specific.  I can only think of one at the moment, and that was only temporary.  The only person I recall who I seriously banned was vqs and that too, was temporary and he was not from the USA, although he may have been from the USA at one time.  My bans have always been for bad behavior and/or bad sportsmanship and I have not considered where the players are from in the least.

Way back when I beat Biggles in league play, I truely can't swear if he said anything DURING the match.  There was plenty said after the match which made me angry.  However, I don't carry grudges, and tend to forgive and move on.  I will say that in the very few matches I have played Biggles since then, he has been polite.

It has been an understood that players in a tourney cannot gag and blind the TD.  No need to explain this to reasonable people.  If anyone gags and blinds me when I am running a tourney, I won't tolerate that and they should be prepared to be forfeited.  

Apparently, that godawful time for Bago at 6 am, my time, was to accomodate diane's TD duties.  The TDing was offered to volunteers who would accept the position, but none have come forth to volunteer to TD and change the time, that I am aware of.  That being the case, how anyone can complain, with good conscience, is beyond me.   :rolleyes:

Yes, the USA has a group of men who insist on behaving like bad little boys.  So be it.   :tears:   We must deal with it in shouts, but we don't have to deal with it in our tourneys or leagues when we are giving of our time and efforts.  In this regard, I must say that the behavior seems to have improved so maybe we are getting past this slowly.   ;)

Too bad it isn't a perfect world where everyone gets along with everyone and there are no insults.

socksey



"Here's a heartwarming story In Boston, a teenager's life was saved when a bullet fired at him was deflected by his cell phone. I know this sounds like a miracle until you realize, if the kid hadn't been talking on his cell phone in the movies, nobody would have shot at him in the first place." - Jay Leno   :lol:  
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 12:23:57 AM by socksey »

Offline diane

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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2005, 12:44:21 AM »
Quote
Apparently, that godawful time for Bago at 6 am, my time, was to accomodate diane's TD duties.  The TDing was offered to volunteers who would accept the position, but none have come forth to volunteer to TD and change the time, that I am aware of.
I must just correct this - it was to provide the and only slot that was both bearable to a European and useful to an Australian (and those on similar time zones) - since no Australian TDs were available - it was a COMPROMISE (and we did repeatedly ask for American TDs to set up a better slot for Americans). Now - back to the matter in hand...  :D  
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Offline socksey

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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2005, 07:09:19 AM »
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I must just correct this -
 What correction?   :wacko:

socksey



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Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2005, 07:40:12 AM »
Biggles,

Stop the point Euros vs US. I really believe that you try to generate a climate which does not exist, in my opinion.

I will not reconsider your temporary ban. Many have been right down there and those who want to learn more can search info in this forum.

About snowflakes
I think that snowflakes felt himself ready to explode when I start to watch and kibitz during his game and that I felt myself ready to explode my turn of his reaction.

The fact that I wondered whether I must ban him or not, comes from the simple fact and only that, that I heard "a$$hole", get gagged, and that I felt that Snow refuse any explanation.

As I said in the first post. I kept to days of reflexion and after hearing all of the reactions in this topic and Snowflakes' ones. I must acknowledged that my reaction was a little fast.
But I do not regret to have post this topis. I have nothing to hide and prefer to speak frankly with all of you even if my limited english does not allow me to be expressed so easily.

So, even If I do not guess that Snow and me become the best friends ;-), as the FLG Host and if Snowflakes is agree I cancel the ban and wish a good match to Snow and Spock for the final of the session 21.
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2005, 10:39:23 AM »
Quote
- Team Grog (an all American team) going 11-0 in the first team league session and never having it posted, nor recognized on the FIBS league board.

Team_Grog team captain = Shuggie_II
Shuggie_II nationality = English

Biggles you've known me for about 5 years and think I'm American, I think my sister has turned you brain to mush.

Anyway got that of my chest..........


Back to the issues in hand. Tom has admitted that he may of been heavy-handed. I never thought for one second Tom intentionally went out to offend or harras someone. However this was how it was received/perceived.

I think snowflakes should be re-instated as a gesture of goodwill.


 
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Offline dorbel

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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2005, 10:41:02 AM »
Bravo Franck, aka Tomawaky. That sounds like a brave and commonsense decision and one that does you credit. It is to be hoped that Snowflakes is big enough to go along with this. Let us all look forward to a good final, played in the best spirit, which is what almost all of us log on for isn't it?  

Offline tansley

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« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2005, 11:16:45 AM »
Snowflakes said..

Quote
Tomawaky I did confuse you with Kari. It was kari that jumped on my case during a league match last session and started at me in kibitzes while I was playing. But Tomawaky what you did was uncalled for and banning me when you are in the wrong is just a dick move


If I understand this correctly, Snowflakes abused, gagged and blinded Tomawaky because he confused him with Kari.

As we can see above, he has apologised unreservedly for his mistake.

It is surprising, given such a prompt and timely retraction by Snowflakes, that this has rumbled on for this long.

Well done Tomawaky for finding a compromise.
You and others who have invested their time, efforts, and in some cases money, into adding to FIBS deserve all our support.

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2005, 02:32:28 PM »
Quote
If I understand this correctly, Snowflakes abused, gagged and blinded Tomawaky because he confused him with Kari.

You got that wrong. That was totally different "event" during a match between snowflakes and tryout.

Hardy   -_-  
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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2005, 03:16:57 PM »
Good decision Tomawaky.

Out of all the Euro TDs, you've always been the most level-headed and fair.

(Even if you 'won't reconsider my ban', which I really don't give a flying flip about)


Ban away oh wise One.



LOL



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Offline snowflakes

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« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2005, 04:41:14 PM »
I have decided to play the final match with Spock.  It is only fair to him.  After that I will think about whether or not I want to continue to be a member of FLG.  I will give my decision soon thereafter.

Thanks to all who got involved in this thread.  

Sincerely,
snowflakes

Offline Kari_Grandi

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« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2005, 06:33:27 PM »
ohhh, how gracious from you. We all thank you snow.

Offline snowflakes

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« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2005, 06:49:38 PM »
Quote
ohhh, how gracious from you. We all thank you snow.
Just the type of response I'd expect from you kari.   :no:    Constantly trying to pick a fight with me.  How about acting with a little bit of professionalism, you are after all a director of FLG, no?  

Tomawaky asked me if I wanted to play the match, he also asked me via email if I wanted to also stay in league session play.  Not sure why I even bother trying to explain anything to you.  You just never seem to get it.

 

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2005, 07:20:47 PM »
Quote
I have decided to play the final match with Spock.  It is only fair to him.  After that I will think about whether or not I want to continue to be a member of FLG.  I will give my decision soon thereafter.

Thanks to all who got involved in this thread.  

Sincerely,
snowflakes
Thanks for your reflexion and the fact that you inform us.
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

Offline socksey

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« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2005, 09:26:42 PM »
Anyone going around singing James Brown's, "I Feel Good"  has something on the ball!  Thank you Tomawaky!  

Thanks to you, too, Snowflakes, for agreeing to play the final, and I hope you decide to stay in the league.   ;)

socksey......third most popular fibster!



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« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 09:29:35 PM by socksey »

Offline Mookie

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« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2005, 09:27:43 PM »
Everyone:

I very much enjoyed this thread.  It was once again an illustration of all the many sides of FIBS (the humor, the jerkiness, the compromises, the unwillingness to compromise, the international handholding, etc).  

But MOSTLY, I just wanted to CONGRATULATE SHUGGIE on his brand new United States' citizenship.  

Well done, shuggie, and WELCOME ABOARD.

mookie--fibs' second most popular player

Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2005, 11:00:06 PM »
Thank you so much mookie.


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Offline Zorba

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« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2005, 11:30:54 PM »
I'm glad the issue could be resolved, well done Toma :)

snowflakes may be a blabber mouth, but he's a sportive player IMO.

Someone in this thread who has nothing to do with it, wrote a lengthy article about how bad many current TDs operate. I can't wait to see when this person sets up his own FIBSleague where even the most rude americans are given a fair deal! Go for it dude.
 
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« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2005, 11:48:56 PM »
well at least i have nothing to do with this discussion (maybei just want to raise my numbers of posts :) ) but  i feel like that this was some of he rare disputs on fibs or flg or whatever which could have been solved. GREAT!!!
Many, many congrats to snowflakes and tomawaky!!!
But there is one thing i want to reply to biggles. if you feel bad about to much euro-td´s get yourself a td and feel free to ban whom ever you want.
( shortly seen a newsreport that even your courts dont feel very familiar with the freedom of press, which includes( for me) the secrecy or shelter of the informant.

yours sincerely

Ramses

Offline Mookie

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« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2005, 11:55:17 PM »
Quote
Many, many congrats to snowflakes and tomawaky!!!

I certainly agree with this sentiment, as I'm sure we all do.

But there is one thing i want to reply to biggles. if you feel bad about to much euro-td´s get yourself a td and feel free to ban whom ever you want.

Ummmmm, I don't think the point is to ban people.  It's rather to let people play on their own, without distraction.


( shortly seen a newsreport that even your courts dont feel very familiar with the freedom of press, which includes( for me) the secrecy or shelter of the informant.

Ramses, I don't get this part of your post at all.  While I also didn't like this opinion of "the court," I'm baffled about the connection between that court case, the rest of your post, FIBS in general, or Biggles in specific?  I'm not starting an argument here by any means, but was there a conneciton you were trying to make that I'm missing?

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Heck, I screwed up and typed all my comments in the quote box.  You guys figure it out.  

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Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2005, 12:03:28 AM »
Mookies post as he intended.......

Many, many congrats to snowflakes and tomawaky!!!

I certainly agree with this sentiment, as I'm sure we all do.

But there is one thing i want to reply to biggles. if you feel bad about to much euro-td´s get yourself a td and feel free to ban whom ever you want.

Ummmmm, I don't think the point is to ban people.  It's rather to let people play on their own, without distraction.


Quote
( shortly seen a newsreport that even your courts dont feel very familiar with the freedom of press, which includes( for me) the secrecy or shelter of the informant.

Ramses, I don't get this part of your post at all.  While I also didn't like this opinion of "the court," I'm baffled about the connection between that court case, the rest of your post, FIBS in general, or Biggles in specific?  I'm not starting an argument here by any means, but was there a conneciton you were trying to make that I'm missing?
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Offline Shuggie

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« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2005, 12:06:50 AM »
btw that was just a shamless way to get my post count up.

And so in fact is this.


 :lovenest:  <--- mookie and my sister
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Offline NIHILIST

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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2005, 05:30:02 AM »
Sad to say snowflakes has always been a bad seed. Despite the best efforts of me and his mother, he's always been incorrigible.

It started in the 3rd Grade when he regularly stole milk money from his classmates. He especially enjoyed stealing from the little immigrant children in the neighborhood, especially the little crybaby snotnoses from Holland, Germany and Finland.

It's apparent that these childhood expeiences influenced him greatly. He still responds badly to whiny Europeans. What's a father to do ?


NIHI
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Offline adamosad

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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2005, 03:40:20 PM »
Hi all,

I want only to congratulate Tomawaky for the way he chose to solve this problem

He is obviously a GREAT TD and he proves it every time…
 

Offline lewscannon

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« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2005, 02:54:16 PM »
Quote
Quote
Many, many congrats to snowflakes and tomawaky!!!

I certainly agree with this sentiment, as I'm sure we all do.

But there is one thing i want to reply to biggles. if you feel bad about to much euro-td´s get yourself a td and feel free to ban whom ever you want.

Ummmmm, I don't think the point is to ban people.  It's rather to let people play on their own, without distraction.


( shortly seen a newsreport that even your courts dont feel very familiar with the freedom of press, which includes( for me) the secrecy or shelter of the informant.

Ramses, I don't get this part of your post at all.  While I also didn't like this opinion of "the court," I'm baffled about the connection between that court case, the rest of your post, FIBS in general, or Biggles in specific?  I'm not starting an argument here by any means, but was there a conneciton you were trying to make that I'm missing?

Mookie---"Im_not_gimmeluck"'s favorite teammate
Heck, I screwed up and typed all my comments in the quote box.  You guys figure it out.  

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This just shows that Mookie is unable to think outside the box.

Offline socksey

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« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2005, 07:05:23 PM »
Long live the "box"!   :lol:


socksey



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Offline NIHILIST

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« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2005, 10:54:19 PM »
Gee, I hope you guys don't get all bruised from patting yourselves on the back.
Robert J Ebbeler

Offline Tomawaky

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« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2005, 07:57:30 PM »
Hi Snow,
Can you explain to me why didn't you join your planning match with spock for the Master Final ?

Sorry to post another time. I don't want to make another quick decision. But It's look like you try to play with my nerves.

I would like to think that I am mistaken once again.  But I start to doubt it.  And as I said it to you, I have really many other thing to occupy myself.

Or maybe you took your decision and already drop the FLG without notice me !

Cause you don't answer my mail, I try to post here.
Last time it has worked.

Thanks for your answer.
Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."

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