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Author Topic: Levelling The Playing Field  (Read 2687 times)
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dorbel
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« on: October 20, 2005, 04:07:48 PM »
Could something be done to level up the huge imbalance in playing standards between Master A and Master B divisions? The highest rated player in Master A is on 1635, but Master B has six players higher than this. It is clearly much more difficult to get into the playoffs from the B division than it is from the A and this can't be right. How about using the rating system to divide the divisions up more fairly?
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lewscannon
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 05:09:15 PM »
Dorbel,

Let's recheck the ratings in MasterA. 1635? Wachoo drinking?
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 05:09:15 PM »
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dorbel
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 09:06:29 PM »
I should have made it clear that I meant fibsleague ratings. I'll have a pint of Shires please. (In joke for UK readers)
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socksey
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2005, 04:59:31 PM »
You looked up all those ratings?Huh???   24  Anyway, Fibsleague ratings have almost zero to do with real ratings.   Wink

socksey



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dorbel
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2005, 07:56:15 PM »
All the ratings are on the first two pages of the fibsleague ratings list, so didn't take a lot of looking up. Fibsleague ratings are much more accurate than fibs ratings IMO, in that they are based on meaningful matches of reasonable length. They are a reasonable indication of playing strength, not always true on fibs of course. As you say, the two rating systems bear little relation to each other!
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lewscannon
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2005, 08:08:07 PM »
If you keep dissing the mastera group, we gonna come over and smack you around.
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Tomawaky
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 10:04:52 PM »
Why not a random distribution next session ?

 
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
tryout
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 10:47:38 PM »
A random shuffle would of course be feasible, but we could end up randomly at the very same like now. It would also only be a one-time solution.

This topic has come up already a few times. I'll quote myself from another thread:

Quote
I'd suggest that the first 2 or 3 players of the Master divisions are swapped every season (the play-offs should be played irrespectively). This way there are 5 - 6 new players every season also in each Master division. An additional benefit is that not one Master division gets "heavier" than the other. At least it should help to level both divisions. The lower divisions are imo taken care of with the current shuffle system.




 
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Tomawaky
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2005, 09:41:30 AM »
Yes it's true that we discussed this so many times.
If I want to copy rules from other divisions I woull say
The 3 Top players from MasterA go to MasterB
The 3 Top players from MasterB go to MasterA

I think that we could add those rules ...
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
socksey
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2005, 12:20:05 AM »
Dorbel, you think my rating should be 1514.67?  That's what my Fibsleague rating is after exp. of 1618 games!   24  Conversely, my rating on Dailygammon.com is 1848 after exp. 2990.  My rating on Fibs was 1676.61 after 41,322 exp. as of  sometime today.  That's some span and that's why I don't put much credence into ratings anywhere.  Dailygammon reflects no droppers.  The games are awarded for time.  Fibs reflects how many droppers while winning?  I couldn't venture a guess.  

Look at donzaemon, who was playing in the 1800's and dropped to somewhere in the 1100 or 1200's (IMHO intentionally), but the point is, ratings cannot be trusted.

You'll never convince me I should be rated at 1514.   Tongue   Well, maybe some days!   24

Didn't I blow your theory, tho, by being champ from B division in session 22?   Wink  

socksey




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« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 12:23:23 AM by socksey » Logged
KDP
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2005, 02:02:41 AM »
i also play at dailygammon and my rating there is about 150 pts higher than my fibs rating.  more than anything else i feel the discrepancy is due more to the strength of the competion between the two sites.  that is, fibs has stronger players accross the board than dailygammon and has less to do with dropped games, etc etc.  i do agree with dorbel that the fibsleagammon ratings are probably a more accurate reflection of ones ability than their overall fibs rating.  my 2 cents worth.
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adamosad
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 11:07:47 AM »
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Yes it's true that we discussed this so many times.
If I want to copy rules from other divisions I woull say
The 3 Top players from MasterA go to MasterB
The 3 Top players from MasterB go to MasterA

I think that we could add those rules ...
Well I prefer my alternative idea that was posted in the "another thread" that Tryout mention. According to it, lower divisions will be shuffled too and not only the master ones.

However, the main Dorbel’s idea is based on fibsleagammon ratings and the two ideas above do not contain this point.

Of course this idea is better than the current situation as it can offer shuffling in master divisions.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 10:48:04 PM by socksey » Logged
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Tomawaky
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 01:07:26 PM »
The shuffle as the inconveniant to be contested.
I like the rules that can't be discussed ;-) and avoid most of complaints from a player or another
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
socksey
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2005, 10:53:12 PM »
I love it!   24   Your tourney, Tomawaky.  You decide!   Wink

socksey



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dorbel
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2005, 05:45:01 PM »
Socksey, you won the league last session, which was great and you did it from the harder division, even better. However if your rating on fibsleague is 1514, that is what it is. It's based entirely on matches of reasonable length against your peers, untainted by droppers, boosters, bots or anything else. The actual number is not particularly relevant, except insofar as it compares to other players in the league. I can see that you might prefer other systems where the number is higher, but it is a fact that the fibsleague rating is probably one of the most accurate on the net. Even so, we should all bear in mind that ratings vary by a lot entirely independent of ability. Even a bot that plays very well and very consistently can have a rating anywhere in a 200 point range and so can we. My only point in raising the matter was to try and even out the two divisions, as one is incontestably stronger than the other, a point that you would presumably agree with.
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socksey
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« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2005, 07:17:01 PM »
Quote
a point that you would presumably agree with.
 No, I don't agree at all.  My point was, that ratings can vary so much, how can we possibly assess?

Quote
I can see that you might prefer other systems where the number is higher, but it is a fact that the fibsleague rating is probably one of the most accurate on the net.
 No, here too, and for the same reason.  Tongue

Backgammon is a dice game and therefore subject to luck.  We have some very fine players on Fibs and on Dailygammon.  No matter what your rating and your skill in playing, sometimes there is nothing you can do right, and conversely, nothing you can do wrong.   24

1514?  Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

socksey



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Tomawaky
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« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2005, 08:35:33 PM »
The trouble with rating in the league is you are always playing always the same people and only good players in case you're in the master division.
So it's hard to increase it.
Easier if you come from the bottom
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Tomawaky "I feel good da da da da da da da.........i knew that i would now........."
adamosad
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2005, 02:09:43 PM »
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The trouble with rating in the league is you are always playing always the same people and only good players in case you're in the master division.
So it's hard to increase it.
Easier if you come from the bottom
And if you come from the bottom and you are increasing your league rating with a fast growth rate (I suppose here that you are an advance player and you have just started playing in the league). Then sometimes you will go to a higher group. There, you will play with better players and your rating will still increase but not with the same growth rate as before. Finally when you will join master league, it will rarely increase or decrease. (If you are still the same advance player with the same luck as before....)
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