hunting at kranskop

[Tanika]

My friend, George with a buck he shot last week

[socksey]

Nice, Tani!  What is that strange critter? 

socksey



Christmas waves a magic wand over this world, And Behold, everything is softer and more beautiful. - Norman Vincent Peale

[garp_02]

Shame!!!!

[garp_02]

I'd like to post a picture of me with a George I shot last week but can't be arsed, so could someone please remove this scandalous picture please?

[stog]

while i am no subscriber to horse and hound, george's shot buck ain't going to become unshot, by having its pic removed here. i am howevever willing to contribute  50 p towards a fund for a ticket for you garp, to travel over and make your case personally with george. i should though very much like to see the resultant photos. (martial art lessons can be arranged for you here in Cumbria in preparation for your travelling ...

dead animals i agree are not human's finest moments.........

and a pic of some gork with his trophy kill kinda speaks for itself
now if yer man had run after said beast, wrestled it to the ground and bit decisively into its neck, then i'd be impressed..
but guns are, and forever remain, the power extension of weak folk. however if i lived where lions and rhinos roamed, i might take a different stance...


mmm this celery tastes good

[garp_02]

Whilst I agree with most everything you say Stog  and will gratefully accept all 50p's, I was just trying to make the point that pictures such as that may be distasteful to some or many.

[Tanika]

get over it.... where do you think the meat come from you eat ? they grow it somewhere in a field? when we hunt,   the animal is killed with one shot.... it takes 4 min to shock your dinner to death! We need to cull out to prevent in breeding of our wild stock on all 3 farms. why is hunting cruel ? how do you think your grandfather and his grandfather supplied for their families? Just because we carry on a tradition it's wrong? and the pic of george... NO animal will ever suffer when killed by George. He's just too good for that.

[Tanika]

no need to fly over here.... here's my daughter..... and George ducking a bullet !

[adrian]

Someone should add a warning that this post is NOT for vegetarians and pompous pussies who aren't aware of industrial meat processing, which is way more cruel than hunting.

[garp_02]

LMAO - what a load of infantile bollocks from Tanika and Adrian.

What do they do to stop the in-breeding amongst the human population there?  Obviously nothing!

[adrian]

I had once a black pussycat. I smashed it to a wall once and I felt good in the next 5 mins. (Ok, I was 13 at that time and I am not proud ). Since then, I still look after another opportunity.

[socksey]

This is getting a bit off topic here.    

I'm pro-hunting as long as I don't have to do it myself, and I'm a meat eater, although I do not eat as much meat as I did when I was younger.    

All you anti-hunters should start a topic of your own and leave Tanika to her nice post.   

I repeat.....what is that animal, Tanika?  It's beautiful and I don't think I've ever seen one.  I'm just curious.

socksey



Some people dream of success, while other people live to crush those dreams. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[stog]

All you anti-hunters should start a topic of your own and leave Tanika to her nice post

yes indeed there is a very possibly, non personal related & available topic/thread running in the Campaigns board at present see http://www.fibsboard.com/campaigns/the-uk-hunt-ban-rumbles-on/

[diane]

I repeat.....what is that animal, Tanika?  

I think you meant what WAS that animal  

I don't agree with hunting for purely sport [as posted in my other topic on fox hunting], or inhumanely [again - refer to the links in my anti-hunting post] or to prove man/womanhood, but for food - that is almost as old as mankind.

I fervently believe that NO man should be permitted to eat meat, unless he/she has hunted, killed, skinned and cooked up at least one meal.  Only that way do they truly understand the sacrifice they are asking of the beast. I think there would be a whole new crop of vegetarians that way.

The ancient way was to kill what you need to eat in the most humane way possible, bless the animal for giving its life for you, and then to make use of every single part of the animal. To throw any away is to seriously disrespect that animal.  If these criteria are met, then I can see no reason to object to hunting for food.

I am still wrestling with whether photographing the kill glorifies or shames the animal - I certainly feel a little off about it having its head turned, to smile for the camera...but lets face  it - you post this piccy on a hunting forum, you will be applauded. Post it on a backgammon forum, then surely you must expect someone to disagree??

[Tanika]

The pic was posted on request of some of my friends, the same way other people post holiday and dinner pics on here. Let me explain something quickly -

#1. "I fervently believe that NO man should be permitted to eat meat, unless he/she has hunted, killed, skinned and cooked up at least one meal."
Thats exactly what happens here.... animals are NOT hunted for trophies. Besides the 3 hunting farms George also own a butchery that supply not only the farms and the workers, but also the top restaurant in our area. If George didn't hunt at least once a week, the native families on the farms would not have fresh meat to eat every day. It is just to expensive for them to afford.

#2 "The ancient way was to kill what you need to eat in the most humane way possible" ....
Yeah right.... next week I'll get George to club them to death...

#3" am still wrestling with whether photographing the kill glorifies or shames the animal"
This is Africa, Diane, our animals are food not gods, and are bred for that purpose alone.

and socksey it WAS a blue waterbuck before he became dinner.

[inim]

I think posting images of firearms is very poor taste on fibsboard. I especially dislike the one which shows Tanika's daughter aiming into the direction of a human.

[PersianLord]

I think you meant what WAS that animal  

I don't agree with hunting for purely sport [as posted in my other topic on fox hunting], or inhumanely [again - refer to the links in my anti-hunting post] or to prove man/womanhood, but for food - that is almost as old as mankind.

I fervently believe that NO man should be permitted to eat meat, unless he/she has hunted, killed, skinned and cooked up at least one meal.  Only that way do they truly understand the sacrifice they are asking of the beast. I think there would be a whole new crop of vegetarians that way.

The ancient way was to kill what you need to eat in the most humane way possible, bless the animal for giving its life for you, and then to make use of every single part of the animal. To throw any away is to seriously disrespect that animal.  If these criteria are met, then I can see no reason to object to hunting for food.

I am still wrestling with whether photographing the kill glorifies or shames the animal - I certainly feel a little off about it having its head turned, to smile for the camera...but lets face  it - you post this piccy on a hunting forum, you will be applauded. Post it on a backgammon forum, then surely you must expect someone to disagree??

Hunting was the first practice our ancestors learned for subsistence. So, it's a sacred tradition. Of course, I am too opposed to kill animals for recreation or trading of their skin and fur. But hunting for food is completely OK to me.

Now about eating meat. Meat is the healthiest food one can dream of in term of nutrients and there is NO alternative that would contain ALL the nutrients meat has. Those vegetarians are embarrassingly misled.

Also note that meat has had a leading role in advancement of some human groups as it was the best nutrient. Here, I would like to quote Frederick Engels on the role of meat in the progress of humans:

"In the Eastern Hemisphere the middle stage of barbarism began with the domestication of animals providing milk and meat, but horticulture seems to have remained unknown far into this period. It was, apparently, the domestication and breeding of animals and the formation of herds of considerable size that led to the differentiation of the Aryans and Semites from the mass of barbarians. The European and Asiatic Aryans still have the same names for cattle, but those for most of the cultivated plants are already different.

....

The plentiful supply of milk and meat and especially the beneficial effect of these foods on the growth of the children account perhaps for the superior development of the Aryan and Semitic races. It is a fact that the Pueblo Indians of New Mexico, who are reduced to an almost entirely vegetarian diet, have a smaller brain than the Indians at the lower stage of barbarism, who eat more meat and fish.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch01.htm



Note#1: I am sure we don't want human devolution. So, happy hunting and devouring animals.

Note#2: Engels  wasn't racist.

Regards

 

[socksey]

I especially dislike the one which shows Tanika's daughter aiming into the direction of a human.

Please look again, inim.     That rifle is aimed far to the right of that man.   

socksey



A few harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[diane]

#2 "The ancient way was to kill what you need to eat in the most humane way possible" ....
Yeah right.... next week I'll get George to club them to death...

#3" am still wrestling with whether photographing the kill glorifies or shames the animal"
This is Africa, Diane, our animals are food not gods, and are bred for that purpose alone.

#2 - erm, I preferred it when he killed them with a single shot...that was the point I was making.  He isnt clubbing them to death, nor setting dogs on them to tear them apart, nor hacking at them with knives until they bleed to death over hours. And - as you pointed out, he isnt dragging them around the country packed in lorries where they cant get water, or comfortable, then moving them in the most vicious way possible - prodding those too tired to walk with electric prods to get them moving again - then killing them in what is *supposed* to be a humane way, but really isn't.  The meat industry in the *first* world is, quite simply, horrific.  I would prefer all the meat I eat to come in the way you get it - it lived a natural life - outdoors, then was killed quickly where it stood - but that wont happen anytime soon.

#3 - I dont ask that an animal is treated as a God, but simply respected as having a life force that will be used to feed many humans. I can regard meat as food, whilst still regarding the animal as more than food, until it arrives on the plate - if that makes sense 

[Tanika]

I regard this topic as closed. I don't expect everyone to agree on every subject but this is getting out of hand and ridiculous. It started out with a buck being shot because he was old and were not fit for breeding anymore, to a personal vendetta. I refuse to listen to personal insults from people not fit to judge me. Not ONE person took the time to ask WHY the buck has been shot, but just went ahead and atacked me, that just shows how quick people are to judge on things they know nothing off. If the picture was so offensive why keep coming back to the link to spit more venom ? Garp was quick to judge me on a photo of a buck being shot, but could post a picture of German soldiers torturing a Jew. So much for respect to fellow German and Jewish fibsters. As for the complain he launched against me, I have no problem. It is his right to do so and I take no offence for him doing so. It is however sad to see how adults can behave so childish... I really do hope that they set a better example in their personal lives than what they do on FIBS and the board. Maybe it would be a good idea to get some more info on a topic before attacking people posting. People like George and his family, are the backbone of the South African Tourist Industry, and we as South Africans should thank them for keeping it alive. Most of you know my e-mail address should you like to know HOW a hunting farm work. Maybe I can get George to reply to your questions. Being the stunning person he is, I'm sure he will do it with love.

[Tanika]

oops sorry Garp..... you didn't complain...    just noticed in the e-mail its YOUR pic I complained about that was removed !

[stog]

ok -- i am locking this topic - any discussion on hunting can take place in the available topic/thread running in the Campaigns board at present -- the Campaigns section was set up for such divisive subjects and should be non personal..

the available topic/thread running in the Campaigns board at present is http://www.fibsboard.com/campaigns/the-uk-hunt-ban-rumbles-on/


the photo of human cruelty referred to has been pulled btw.

the one self censorship i apply on Fibsboard for example with my random pics on the front page, is usually to try and avoid graphic pictures of war and death - although there are symbolic ways round that (see attached pics below)  - and, hence my inclusion of the Picasso pic of the goat skull's head... (painted in the dark times of the early 1940's) ie/ if the simplistic point you are trying to make for example is that - animal killing leads to human killing (or * below) - you do not need to show/ indeed cannot show graphic photos which could further upset or inflame..make the effort to explain your point or choose a symbolic
mode of expression..

we are all free to say/do what we please, but others then are just as free to 'bop us on the beak'.
On this forum we must all manage our content..

there are though diverse opinions available from all members and, -as long as we all try and respect each other's views - we can all learn something --

i thought what diane said about "if it were posted in a hunting forum, but as it is a general/bg forum - you see now that some folks are really anti hunt - formalised  hunting with dogs is now banned here in uk, and as i live in a deer park, on a working farm, where the deer are managed - because of 'space' food etc I can certainly understand managed hunting..

Adrian's points on our often hidden and sometimes inhumane factory farming, is very relevant, and that sometimes hidden/inhumane "for profit" approach can lead to far reaching consequences --

*one might include an acceptance of 'bad practice' by folks not speaking out about things -- which may be the reason why someone posted a picture of human on human barbarity.

there are real issues that can be discussed  - but please no personal attacks and ' respect each other' please, and for these sort of contentious topics - please use the Campaigns board, and post a link to it
thx
go to http://www.fibsboard.com/campaigns/the-uk-hunt-ban-rumbles-on/
or see this interesting take on animal management..Sweden culls its resurgent wolves http://www.fibsboard.com/campaigns/the-uk-hunt-ban-rumbles-on/msg21143/#msg21143

we are indeed stewards of the world's animal variety, or at least their environment..........