rude behavior

[sixty_something]

recently, a new player politely asked me in a Tell whether they could ask a question .. i wasn't familiar with the nick .. on checking, i noticed the player had 0 experience .. at one time, i'd frequently welcome even invite FIBS-virgins like this to play and help them thru the ropes of learning javafibs .. but, on the whole, i'd found the experience less than satisfying

on this occasion the proper and polite way the newbie's first and following remarks were worded led me to to playing her and giving her a very quick and very detailed intro to javafibs .. she proved to be a very quick learner and earned a very justifiable 10K vouch.. her nick is kleine_meid .. but as it turns out this experience has proved less than satisfying, too, but it has been no fault of kleine_meid

we played a one pointer which included continuing chats and examples about cube handling, RepBot, droppers, and many javafibs functions, that took me weeks even months of use to understand .. i watched her play a second one pointer with another newbie with no problems .. since i was working on something else and waiting on Tuesday Bago to begin, i moved on, but i was still in watching mode .. a little later, i noticed kleine_meid was playing her first 3-pointer .. i felt like a proud papa

then she made an unusual request as it seemed her opponent, MCJGammon was giving her trouble or grief of some kind .. i began paying closer attention and checked the Kibitzes, but there was nothing unusual other than she was the only one kibitzing .. yet her level of consternation continued to rise .. in her Tells to me she was obviously upset even wanting to drop the match .. i encouraged her to just cube out, lose the match and move on then add the MCJGammon to her Villain list .. she did finish the game and lose but progress of play moved very slowly especially toward the end and she remained upset ..

i assumed it was just bad lag, but became curious what MCJGammon was saying in Tells .. i coached her thru saving the text of the Kibitz/Tell window and she sent it to me .. MCJGammon was displaying rude behavior in Tells from the first which only escalated and was apparently stalling out of spite for what he claimed was her slow play .. i had noticed slow play when watching, but it wasn't hers .. additionally, MCJGammon was way over the top with his Tells and behavior, but not abusive, profane, or racist, so i encouraged her to just let it go and move on .. knowing such behavior from time to time while playing on FIBS is just another fibs-lesson all newbies must unfortunately learn .. soon, Bago began .. she began watching .. i began playing and watching myself .. after Bago she contined playing again and from time to time asking a few more questions (some quite good) .. one question even taught me a new way to use javafibs with the board in a separate window during serious play .. after i logged off, i replied to her email and encouraged her to ignore it and move on

knowing socksey might be interested in the Kibitz/Tell transcript, i Fwd'd a copy to her ..  socksey's reply encouraged me to post the transcript here as an example of what newbies and others can expect from time to time from some of fibs uncivilized citizens .. i was inclined not to, knowing i'd spend inordinate time and energy writing and thinking about this already, as i am now

but yesterday i crossed paths with MCJGammon in shouts as he was defending his reputation and complaining about his opponents play and droppers .. i challenged him about his rude behavior that i had personally observed asking his permission several times to let me post this transcript from the game here .. his replies were evasive .. several other longtime fibsters whom i respect encouraged me to go ahead and post this .. kleine_meid consented as well .. so, to bring this already too long intro to a close here is the transcript from kleine_meid's game Kibitz/Tell window unedited other than as noted

on the positive side, MCJGammon and i crossed paths again later yesterday and today.. he behaved like a good citizen of fibsland and even displayed a pretty good sense of humor 

in no way do i want this to turn into a personal attack or vouch war against MCJGammon  while his behavior was rude and inappropriate, he may just be a little quirky, irksome, and impatient or was just having a bad day .. i've seen far worse behavior in shouts and during play .. quirky characters are often the ones who give fibsland its most unique even appealing flavor   

but there is a point where quirky, sarcastic, cynical, and even humorous behavior cross the line and are just plain rude and can become offensive .. it's that sort of behavior and sexual or racially abusive comments wherever they occur (shouts, tells, or kibitzes) we need ways to prevent, and discourage here in fibsland .. maybe this is one such way, maybe not .. humans are as houmans do .. even some bots can get cranky

but someday soon i want my grandsons and granddaughters to join us in fibsland ..  maybe bringing this out into the daylight a little here will help prevent it from happening to them and other newbies .. regardless, here 'tis, the good, the bad, and the ugly .. judge for yourself .. pardon the length, but the context here is as important as the content .. with the singular exceptions of the greeting and goodbye messages and a pretty funny opening stab at humor which kleine_meid unfortunately missed in the translation, this is classic rude behavior here in fibsland

THIS IS NO WAY TO TREAT A NEWBIE   

sixty

MJCGammon kibitzes: Hi & Good Luck, kleine_meid
MJCGammon says: if it was MY turn, I would be done by now
You kibitz: hi thank you
You kibitz: sorry, first time here today
You kibitz: getting used her
MJCGammon says: got a used her for sale?
MJCGammon says: flesh peddler
You kibitz: here
MJCGammon says: still, flesh peddler
You kibitz: what does that mean?

MJCGammon says: I ain't yer funk and wagnal
MJCGammon says: look these things up, try to remember them
MJCGammon says: if it was MY turn, I would be done by now
MJCGammon says: if you are doing the best you can, I pith you
MJCGammon says: piss on you
MJCGammon says: if you are doing the best you can, I pity you
MJCGammon says: swine
MJCGammon says: if it was MY turn, I would be done by now
MJCGammon says: tooooo slow for me
MJCGammon says: are these decisions TOOO hard for you?

You tell sixty_something: sixty, can i shut this game?
You tell sixty_something: or better not

MJCGammon says: tooooo slow for me
MJCGammon says: are these decisions TOOO hard for you?

sixty_something says: shut?

MJCGammon says: tooooo slow for me
MJCGammon says: are these decisions TOOO hard for you?
MJCGammon says: tooooo slow for me

You tell sixty_something: close it...
sixty_something says: why?
You tell sixty_something: but it will report as unfinished theb
sixty_something says: yes, that's called dropping
sixty_something says: unless you both agee to it

MJCGammon says: if it was MY turn, I would be done by now

You tell sixty_something: can you read it?
You tell sixty_something: i'm called swine
You tell sixty_something: f, example

MJCGammon says: if it was MY turn, I would be done by now
MJCGammon says: are these decisions TOOO hard for you?
MJCGammon says: like when to ROLL?

sixty_something says: yes, but i haven't been following it
sixty_something says: is he getting obnoxious?
You tell sixty_something: i will save it
You tell sixty_something: yes very
You tell sixty_something: and not on the kibitz

MJCGammon says: rambi starts watching kleine_meid, is that like watching paint dry?

sixty_something kibitzes: hey, guys
sixty_something kibitzes: gl, both
sixty_something kibitzes: mind if i watch

MJCGammon says: I ain't stopping ya

sixty_something says: said the cop

You kibitz: i dont
You kibitz: ty

MJCGammon says: would like it better if this jerk could roll in a timely fashion
MJCGammon says: and then move like they mean it
MJCGammon says: and occasionally say something witty

sixty_something says: he must be sending you Tells .. i see nothing

sixty_something says: other than the greeting
You tell sixty_something: yess that true

MJCGammon says: like NOW

You tell sixty_something: making fun of you too

MJCGammon says: these are called forced moves, jerk, you have NO choice

sixty_something says: ask him to stop if it keeps up .. stop the Tells, that is
sixty_something says: RepBot says: MJCGammon's reputation is 14438(GOOD) (23 saved games)

MJCGammon says: would you LIKE me to take as long as you?
You kibitz: would you mind behave a little bit more polite MJCGammon?
MJCGammon says: I can take TWICE as long

sixty_something says: note the high saved games and that's a rather low rep
sixty_something says: it's a borderline situation
sixty_something says: and we do have our fair share of arseholes around here

MJCGammon says: and in exchange you will play better than you are able to play? I think not
MJCGammon says: stop stalling and play better
You kibitz: if you want a better play, play with someone else
MJCGammon says: like now, this is stalling, like you didn't know that
MJCGammon says: you type after you move
MJCGammon says: and move before you finish typing, or else it is stalling
You kibitz: you dont tell  me what to do, i decide that for myself
MJCGammon says: like I am doing right now
MJCGammon says: but, indeed, your actions determine mine own actions, idiot

sixty_something kibitzes: shalomtfu, boyz
sixty_something kibitzes: he's a newbie, MJ

MJCGammon says: to life?
MJCGammon says: the excuse used is not working for me, there is not a good excuse for this stalling
MJCGammon says: the only way to stop a staller is to out sit them
You kibitz: then stop this game if you are sooooo angry with me 1!!\

MJCGammon says: so, I have decided to stall as long as they do, then 2x as long, then 3x as long
MJCGammon says: etc,

sixty_something says: cube him
sixty_something says: and let him win
You tell sixty_something: okay, thank y0u

MJCGammon says: I will have moved, like now, and will return the dice after the time period I determine is a stall

sixty_something says: then avoid him, gag him, complain, and move on
sixty_something says: much less hassle in the long run

MJCGammon says: then 2x as long, etc
MJCGammon says: youtr dice, learn well
MJCGammon says: waiting for the atll, BEFORE I roll
MJCGammon says: to show a bit of comtempt

sixty_something says: i'll send you a list of good friends at your level, if you like
You tell sixty_something: i getting al fixed up ....
sixty_something says: introduce yourself, say you're a friend of mine, and you'll have some good times

MJCGammon says: timer is ticking, next level of waiting for you is 3times the stall... enjoy!
MJCGammon says: currently that wait is one minute...
MJCGammon says: waiting one minute and 2 seconds now

MJCGammon says: doo doo dee deee, enjoy the wait staller

You tell sixty_something: this idiote is stalling the time now
You tell sixty_something: sorry for that word
sixty_something says: right, typical, arse
sixty_something says: np, understand the frustration
You tell sixty_something: can i make a complaint as a newbe?
sixty_something says: after a while, but not at first

MJCGammon says: the next level of "reward" for the staller is 4 times the wait, are you getting the idea Kleine?
MJCGammon says: 20 seconds to go!
MJCGammon says: and answer would be polite, ass
MJCGammon says: tick tick

sixty_something says: also, add him to your villains list, asap, after the match
You kibitz: i will not talk to someone who calls me "ass"
sixty_something says: that gags
sixty_something says: which prevents Tells
sixty_something says: and further invites
sixty_something says: best to just ignore and move on
sixty_something says: sorry, but, as i said, we have characters of all kinds, good and bad

MJCGammon says: 46 seconds idle, idle time indicated you had it on autoroll
MJCGammon says: you "should be able to roll and think and move in 20 seconds, time in excess of that is idle time
MJCGammon says: 20 seconds stalling again

MJCGammon says: 4 times 5 is 20 more seconds...
MJCGammon says: next level is 5 times the wait, ass

sixty_something says: brb
You tell sixty_something: how many games i have to do with that man ?

MJCGammon says: 3
MJCGammon says: 4
MJCGammon says: 5
MJCGammon says: 6
MJCGammon says: 7
MJCGammon says: 8
MJCGammon says: 9
MJCGammon says: 0
MJCGammon says: 11
MJCGammon says: 12
MJCGammon says: 13
MJCGammon says: 1
MJCGammon says: 2
MJCGammon says: 3
MJCGammon says: 4
MJCGammon says: 5
MJCGammon says: 6
MJCGammon says: 7
MJCGammon says: 8
MJCGammon says: 9
MJCGammon says: 0
MJCGammon says: 1
MJCGammon says: 2
MJCGammon says: 3
MJCGammon says: 4
MJCGammon says: 5
MJCGammon says: 6
MJCGammon says: 7
MJCGammon says: 8
MJCGammon says: 9
MJCGammon says: 0
MJCGammon says: staller
MJCGammon says: staller
MJCGammon says: staller
MJCGammon says: staller
MJCGammon says: why not resign, you have lost again!
MJCGammon says: 9 vs 15
MJCGammon says: \7 vs 15
MJCGammon says: 5
MJCGammon says: 3
MJCGammon says: you are an idiot, and an ass!
MJCGammon says: Thanks for playing, kleine_meid  it was nice playing with you.

[socksey]

Wow, kleine_meid!  You have a lot of patience!     I wouldn't have been so nice.  
Sixty-something seems to be the new "father of Fibs", always helpful and cheerful.     I would have dropped the SOB and added another to MCJGammon's hefty saved number!    

Being a veteran here, I can tell you there are lots of jerks floating around the net and Fibs certainly gets it's share!  

It's hard for a newbie to deal with this stuff, so I urge you to hang in there and learn who the good guys are and put the bad guys on your villians list and be done with them, or as I do, put them on your friends list, color them red and don't play them again.  

It's even hard for a Fibs veteran like me to deal with some of the unkind, careless shouts and tells that come my way all too often.  I've seen too many good people leave Fibs    because of this bad behavior.  I wouldn't like to see any more leave.     Bad behavior breeds bad behavior as I can attest to this myself having fought back and only gained more heartache with my own bad behavior.  

I can think of at least seven regular fibsters (really good people) who talked to me personally before they left Fibs because they couldn't take the bad behavior.   If I thought longer, I'm sure I could probably come up with a few more names, but I won't name them here because a couple of them pop in rarely to say hello and to name them would, unfortunately, submit them to more harrassment. The thing is, they no longer stay and this is unfortunate for us because they added fun and substance to the community.  It's all our loss, never to be regained.  

socksey



"I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever find it out." - David Sedaris

[moyang]

My english is far from good enough to compete with native english speakers although I suppose that an Australian could take the piss out of an American (whether heââ,¬â,,¢s pissed or not) and vice versa (or Neo-Zealander, Canadian, Scott, Irish ââ,¬Â¦) so, I took the option to say as little as possible in shouts, in kibitzes or on this board (What am I doing here then, I have no idea !!! )

I never actually had to face such a bad behavior but I always keep quiet when someone starts complaining, thatââ,¬â,,¢s why I do understand kleine-meidââ,¬â,,¢s (lack of) reaction, she probably wouldââ,¬â,,¢ve received a shower of insults just for coughing out loud. I suppose I wouldââ,¬â,,¢ve insulted MCJGammon in french which wouldââ,¬â,,¢ve been quite funny to me (but to whom else ?).

Anyway, yes, let's assume MCJGammon had had a bad day and it was too tempting to take it out on kleine-meid who is new to FIBS but, that's no excuse. Let's just hope that kleine-meid wonââ,¬â,,¢t stay a newbie for long and will enjoy Fibsland as much as I do.

moyang

[burper]

I've always said, there is more than dropping to complain to repbot about.

[Sequit]

I've seen MJCGammon in shouts trying to command a political discussion. He's just a rude nubie, or rude alternate nick. Actually, many established players are proud of their rudness, racism, sexism. So. in-the-end, it's been that way here for a long time and I guess we have to live with it. Sixty_Something, you are cool to help a new player through the abuse, and maybe we'll have another player who enjoys the site, despite the few jerks in shouts who have pretty low behaviour standards..