posting a position as a problem was a problem

[sixty_something]

OK, i am now officially pissed .. i just spent an hour or more trying to create a method for posting problems for us to share and to solve using the poll feature .. it seems the attached file was too large .. it aborted without loading and i couldn't return to the post which i didn't think to save .. the text including detailed instructions on how to create such a problems was lost

well, it din't work anyway .. so, all i learned is don't do it that way .. time to start over again 

FYI, Eric, exactly what is the attached file size limit? .. i had 2 files, one a full screen shot in RTF the other a small GNU SGF (2 Kb) .. screen shots with PrntScrn can get quite large this one was 4.7 Mb

is there a way to save a full screenshot into a smaller file?

i guess jpeg would be best   i just seldom do it that way

sixty

To bring one's self to a frame of mind and to the proper energy to accomplish things that require plain hard work continuously is the one big battle that everyone has. When this battle is won for all time, then everything is easy. -- Thomas A. Buckner

[sixty_something]

well, well, even a blind can find an acorn every now and then 

on my second attempt , using a jpeg file (0.25 Mb) for the screenshot and with a few mods, i think it came out nicely 

here are the steps i used:

For the snapshot of the position:
load the match in GNU
position to the situation you wish to submit
enable full screen view
copy the screen with PrntScrn
open an image editor (eg, MS Photo Editor)
create a new image, sized 10" wide, 8" tall (or 10.25" x 5.65" to be exact)
use 256 colors resolution to minimize file size
save the image as Cube 101.jpeg

For the new Poll:
create a poll named Cube 101
compose the question
compose the answers
toggle show results only when user has voted
leave poll open ended, that is no time limit
describe the situation using a style similar to mine
attach the image above using Additional Options below

For the GNU analysis or answer:
switch back to GNU in normal screen
show analysis panel
open Notepad
* use the copy button to copy the analysis to the clipboard
* paste analysis from clipboard
(* repeat to copy next cube decision(s) if necessary)
save as Cube 101.txt into My Documents
switch back to new poll
attach the txt file using More attachments
run spell checker, if you like
post the poll

Final check:
open it and check way it looks and reads
modify as necessary
open the image, is it ok
open the answers, are they ok
cast the first vote, as originally played
sit back and see how others vote over time

if you create a problem for a new poll, use a naming style like Cube xxx or Move xxx, where xxx is an ascending serial number .. that will create a set of problems easy for us to manage and allow comments added as a reply to remain associated with the problem .. but be careful with your comments, so you don't give away the answers

thanks, this could be fun


sixty

If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.
-- Nikola Tesla , New York Times, October 19, 1931 US (Serbian-born) electrical inventor (1857 - 1943)

[rubreg]

For the snapshot of the position:
(...)
enable full screen view
copy the screen with PrntScrn
open an image editor (eg, MS Phote Editor)
create a new image, sized 10" wide, 8" tall
use 256 colors resolution to minimize file size
save the image as Cube 101.jpeg

Also possible: directly exporting a position from gnubg.
Click 'Export', select 'Position' and 'Export to format' --> png.
Select path and filename.
Careful, this works only in 2-D view (at least for me).
The size of the exported image can be adjusted in 'settings --> export...'
The standard path for exports can't be set via the menus yet, but you can type
'set path png [pathname]'
into the command line. (type 'help set' or 'help set path' for further info)
...and don't forget to 'Save Settings' afterwards...

For further fiddling with the exported image (or screenshots as suggested by sixty_something) I'd suggest a free little prog called 'Irfanview', small but very powerful for things like this (can resize, convert to 256 colours, jpg or tons of other formats, and all you might wish for). Available at http://www.irfanview.com/.

Edit:
...since file size was an issue: I'll attach an example screenshot.
Exported from GNU as described above, size was set to 540 x 410 pixels.
Loaded into irfanview and saved as jpg --> file size = 47KB

(max allowed attachment size is 2 MB, says so in the attachment menu thingy)

[sixty_something]

thanks, rubreg, great idea i didn't know about that .. but i noticed the PNG file when opened is smaller (but not too small) and opens within the post window .. a JPEG opens in a larger separate window .. for me, i like the larger separate window which can be moved around allowing the voter to read the poll without scrolling back and forth over comments that may contain *spoilers*

what would really be great is to be able to attach the PNG file to the poll panel itself and then appear within the Poll voting panel when opened .. then comments from others about the decision won't unduly influence their vote .. i wonder if webrunner can make that happen?


A person travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it.
-- George Moore

[webrunner]

Sixt, 4,7 mb is an enormous large file for a forum. Imagine people posting 5 of these kinds of files a day. That would  ad up to 9 GB a year, that would cost me a fortune, not alone but also cause fibsboard to slow down considerably.

The maximum is 2 MB i think, total per post. Please use the download section to upload large files like software packages and stuff.

[webrunner]

Also i would advise to resize images to 800x600 pixels (f.i. by using Irfanview, i use it too).
That size is more then enough to see the board clearly for everyone and is a lot smaller.

[rubreg]

(...) i noticed the PNG file when opened is smaller (but not too small) and opens within the post window .. a JPEG opens in a larger separate window .. for me, i like the larger separate window which can be moved around allowing the voter to read the poll without scrolling back and forth over comments that may contain *spoilers* (...)

The test image I attached was *not* a png but a jpg. I don't know why your jpg openes in a seperate browser window and mine doesn't - my educated guess would be: pixel size. Your jpg is 1000 x 800, mine 540 x 410. Also the extra browser window / inline display only happens on clicking the thumbnail image. If instead I click the filename underneath, I can open the image in my external image viewer (in my case irfanview) and move it about the screen just like the separate browser window. This behaviour is the same for your big jpg and my small one.

[sixty_something]

i may have found a way to get the PNG to appear in the Poll section with the question

see Cube 103 for an example .. the banner is a file at FibsLeagammon inserted into the question this coding {img]www.filename[/img} (just replace the {} with [])

as soon as i can find a place to put up the PNG file on-line, i'll change it to test the idea .. attaching as well should also be done, imo, in case the on-line file should disappear .. but having an image up there with the question is "the best of all possible worlds" 

Eric, would it be possible to upload them to the fibsboard site? that way the attachment would be unnecessary and there'd be no additional overhead for you or concerns about losing the PNG file

thanks for the PNG idea, rubrek

[To a first-term congressman who wanted to be excused from voting with the party to satisfy his biggest contributors:] Son, if you can't take their money, drink their whiskey, screw their women, and then vote against 'em, you don't deserve to be here.
-- Texas democrat Sam Rayburn (Mr. Sam), Speaker of the House, circa 1950 , John Hazlehurst, CO Springs Independent

btw, this Texan met old Sam once in the sixties, he was the real deal

[don]

Probably easiest and best for all is to simply include a text version of position.  There's no compatability issues, no large files, no nothing.  Inclusion of gnu match/board ID numbers is a plus for those who want prettier images and analysis.

Move number 1: O to play 54

    GNU Backgammon  Position ID: 4HPwATDgc/ABMA
                    Match ID   : MIByAAAAAAAA
    +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+  O: gnubg
    | X              O |   |    O           X |  0 points
    | X              O |   |    O           X |  Rolled 54
    |                O |   |    O           X |  
    |                O |   |                X |  
    |                O |   |                X |  
    |                  |BAR|                  |^ 3 point match (Cube: 1)
    |                X |   |                O |  
    |                X |   |                O |  
    |                X |   |    X           O |  
    | O              X |   |    X           O |  
    | O              X |   |    X           O |  0 points
    +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+  X: user
Pip counts: O 167, X 167

* gnubg moves 24/20 13/8

Rolled 54:*    24/20 13/8

BTW, above box was done using the "quote" and "pre" buttons on webby's editor (pre for preformatted text so it all lines up).

Yes, those graphic images look nice and include them if you want to, but IMO ALWAYS include the simple text versions for all--those who don't have the software to, don't want to bother with, or don't know how to figure out how to get to the pretty images.

--
don

[sixty_something]

thx, don, i like the idea of always including the text version for compatibility, but it's almost unreadable to me .. i had to zoom it to 150% just to read it without resorting to my glasses .. then i had to familiarize myself with the text version and by then had lost interest

so, while more generic and universal, perhaps, it's just visual noise to me .. i'd always opt for the graphics unless on safari in Africa and then i doubt i'd be interested in solving a problem anyway .. maybe i'm just spoiled by broadband .. so, i'll leave it to you to come up with a problem and show us how you'd include it

nonetheless, good suggestion as always

~v~

Words are the small change of thought.
-Jules Renard, writer (1864-1910)

[Tomawaky]

I have difficulties too to read text version even if I already tried to play Fibs with telnet command only

[reon]

There is a board generator at

http://www.sydbg.uniq.com.au/gabbi.php

although it is still under development.

[Tomawaky]

I prefer html coding rather than picture like that http://gammon.free.fr/bom/form.htm
Not big place needed to host

[sixty_something]

Tomawaky, i think i prefer the PNG files exported directly from GNU as rubreg suggested .. they are almost perfect .. Cube 103, for example, was only 432 x 328 pixels and 81.9 Kb .. that's very reasonable in size, quite readable, and easy to export .. further a sample text file, copied from the GNU analysis panel for the position provides a readily accessible answer for the curious

an HTML file i accidentally created of the same position was only 9 Kb .. but i could not get it to display properly without the dozens of associated files for pips, board, etc

so, for my two cents, inserting an image into the question space of the poll is best .. it looks as if either PNG or a smaller JPEG is the most direct way to do this within the constraints of fibsboard .. IF IT WORKS

also, Tomawaky, i'm still awaiting a place to upload the PNG to for a final test .. if you can download this image and make it available on your FLG site, we can do that .. i haven't had time to look into setting up a new Google/picassa site for myself yet and likely won't for a week or two (i'm resitant to adding too many new things at the moment) .. but if this works, i still think putting them up at fibsboard may be the best long term solution

thanks to all for your help in this little project .. i think we're getting close



Our heads are round so that thoughts can change direction.
-- Francis Picabia, painter and poet (1879-1953)

[Tomawaky]

look at this

[webrunner]

actually sixt, if you use jpg for image format it will be even smaller.

[rubreg]

as soon as i can find a place to put up the PNG file on-line (...)

Have you tried http://www.isarapix.com/ or http://imageshack.us/ ?

[sixty_something]

i setup a Google Picasa site yesterday .. two or three hours later i discovered it had kinks, new syntax, another learning curve, and just another stupid place for me to visit, maintain, and keep track of .. i have little patience for that and less time .. so, rubreg, it's unlikely i'll try your suggestions, but thanks

when i tried using the url for the uploaded Cube 103 PNG, it was not able to be displayed in the poll area of the question .. i am not sure whether this was a good test or not .. the image displayed in question space of Cube 103 now is a GIF file displayed with the following

Code Select Expand

[img]http://fibsleagammon.free.fr/minifibs.gif[/img]

maybe the img command does not support PNG files .. maybe there is a problem induced by the picasa reference .. i have no clue .. so, next i'll try the same test with a GIF or JPEG file .. but i am not confident or satisfied with the Google Picasa account at all .. i am certain such a procedure is not the answer for ease of use

let me make it clear what i am seeking

1) a simple procedure for displaying problems
2) an entertaining and educational poll for users to participate in
3) once established, a procedure that others can use to post problems of their own

simplicity is the most important aspect .. saving the user or poster time and avoiding confusion is far more important than saving a few Kb in file size .. clearly, IMO, the simplest procedure is to export a PNG file and TXT answer from the gnu analysis panel then attach them to the new problem posted as a Poll .. my attempts at inserting an image in the question space is really just cosmetic, but it would be nice - IF IT WORKS

toward that end, i've emailed Eric Cube 103 images in PNG, GIF, and JPEG formats .. if he can put those files up on the fibsboard server, them maybe i can directly test the result to see if they can be inserted directly into the question .. that still seems the best solution- IF IT WORKS

regardless, it seems we have a way to post problems with nothing more than a Poll and attachments - THAT IS A GOOD THING and SIMPLE too

  sh**, now i can't access my new Picasa web album and am having problems with "session validation" here at fibsboard .. simple this is NOT


Like bumper cars in amusement parks, our direction is often determined through collisions.
--Yahia Lababidi, writer (b. 1973)

[rubreg]

when i tried using the url for the uploaded Cube 103 PNG, it was not able to be displayed in the poll area of the question
(...)
maybe the img command does not support PNG files .. maybe there is a problem induced by the picasa reference (...)

I doubt the problem lies in the png file format, but that's only an educated guess. Also I don't know about picasa and the links you get from them. But often, links you get from picture sites aren't direct links to the pics, but links that take you to their site and then display the image there. When you upload something to imageshack for example, you have to scroll way down to find the 'direct link to image' at the very bottom of their list. If you want to insert an image to a forum posting, you'll always need a direct link to the image.

good: hxxp://some.site/some/folder/picname.png <-- will work
bad: hxxp://some.site/some/folder/somescript.php?parameter=someparameter <-- will not work

(I hope I'm not stating the obvious here....)

[sixty_something]

thanks again, rubreg, nothing is obvious to me when it comes to file servers .. i have very little experience with using them for anything but direct uploads and downloads

i tried the Picasa thing again with JPEG and GIF files with no luck there either .. i was about to give up, but may try your suggestion after all .. i did using IsaraPIX and it works !!!

see Cube 103 now and tell me if the size is too small or just right .. i figure if i can read it without glasses, it's good enough for almost everyone ..  it's now sized at  width=346 height=262, 80% of the default PNG file exported from GNU (432 x 328) .. the default GNU size did seem a little large visually in the context of the question space .. here is the BBcode

Code Select Expand

[img width=346 height=262]http://www.isarapix.com/pix90/1201523878.png[/img] [size=13pt]In the first game of a 2 pointer in Mini Matches semi-finals against [i]adrian[/i] (RED) this position arose. [b]What are the correct cube decisions  - WHITE to play?[

putting the image first is necessary to prevent it from breaking up an imappropriate wrap around of text .. note the trailing [ that appears on the screen and in the code .. that is where truncation occured when i added the size parameters to the img command and increased the font size for more proportional readability with the image .. it appears the maximum character length for the question, BBcode and all is about 228 cahracters which is probably sufficient

there are still a few kinks, but this looks good .. thanks again, rubreg and all



Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who would want to live in an institution.
-- H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

[webrunner]

Personally i find the image inside the poll annoying. it messes up the lay-out and doesn't make reading the poll easier. I really don't see the benefit of the image in there, especially with the work you are creating for yourself.
Futhermore it will leave a X when the image is deleted. Since backgammon problems are informational resources that stay interesting, no matter how old they are, i would advise for a more durable solution.

I think uploading the image with the post is still the best solution. It is a proven mechanism and everyone can use it.

[Tomawaky]

Agreed with Webrunner, uploading is more simple.

I thought about html code to avoid using too many space, but if it's not a problem !






Let's go with uploading....

One other thing is that the way it is done here, is very simple for all : Edit position online then copy/paste in post and nothing else to do.

[sixty_something]

well, some like chocolate, some like vanilla .. i really like seeing the image in the question space and find having to scroll down for the uploaded image annoying .. particularly when readers replies may contain spoilers giving away the answer .. imho, there is nothing more annoying than looking forward to solving a problem only to find another reader has enthusiastically given away the answer

yes, if the on-line image disappears or if the url changes we get no image (and it inevitably will) .. thus, i will continue to attach the image so it will always be available as will the GNUbg analysis or answer .. the only resolution to this is to allow access to stored images at the fibsboard server or another permanent location .. i recognize this creates another level of admin or permissions which i've been asking Eric about for over a week .. i assume that's not going to happen and respect your perspectives and opinions as server administrators

my intent all along has been to seek simplicity, but my priority has been simplicity for:

• reader
• poster
• admin

as i have experience primarily from the top of that list down with only limited experience with managing smaller Yahoo! groups on-line and yours is from the bottom up, i suspect that explains the difference in our perspectives

regardless, it appears we have a workable procedure for creating an interesting series of problems which will hopefully add to both the entertainment and enlightenment of our readers .. i will continue to post problems using my preferred image inserted method, for now, but will also include the attached reference file .. at worst at some point in the future, we get a little red X and readers will learn to scroll down for the reference file .. until then all is well

i will write up a procedure for "Posting Problems" focusing on attaching problems and pin it to the top of the forum .. given that we may have hundreds of these problems by years end, i think it would be best to create a separate forum called "Problems", but they certainly fit in "Improving your backgammon skills"


All creative people should be required to leave California for three months every year.
-- Gloria Swanson US actress (1899 - 1983)

[webrunner]

Tomowaky, i wrote to the owner of the site with the board creater where i can get e version. I haven't recieved any answer yet 

[webrunner]

Also: i could install a mod of the forum that gives the ability to posty spoiler information behind a button. That way readers first have to push a botton before they can see the spoiler information. I think that would be usefull don't you agree?

[sixty_something]

yes, avoiding spoilers yet encouraging commentary would be really nice .. otherwise, readers would have to create a separate post or attach their comments in a text file or something

still leaving the initial message may be necessary even useful for first time users

good idea

How little a thing can make us happy when we feel that we have earned it.
-- Mark Twain in The Diaries of Adam and Eve
    US humorist, novelist, short story author, & wit (1835 - 1910)

[Tomawaky]

Tomowaky, i wrote to the owner of the site with the board creater where i can get e version. I haven't recieved any answer yet 

Good I waited to know if this solution will be used or not before writing him an email and ask to make some change for Forum post.
We'll see if he will answer or not. I think this feature would be great to fibsboard.

[webrunner]

Good I waited to know if this solution will be used or not before writing him an email and ask to make some change for Forum post.
We'll see if he will answer or not. I think this feature would be great to fibsboard.

I offered to make the changes for him and donate them back to the users community.

[rubreg]

yes, if the on-line image disappears or if the url changes we get no image (and it inevitably will) .. thus, i will continue to attach the image so it will always be available as will the GNUbg analysis or answer

Attaching the image to the posting certainly is a good idea.

As for the longevity of uploaded images to IsaraPix - I have no idea how long they will stay online and I couldn't find any info on their site either. Guess we'll find out the hard way. It could be a certain fixed time span, but I think on some sites files only get deleted if no one *accesses* them for a certain time. Personally I haven't used IsaraPix yet (only heard good feedback from other users), but on imageshack I've had some pix up for a year or two and they're still there. The ideal solution would be having a direct (and permanent) link to the image on the fibsboard server.

As for the design of the polls, I like having the image up there together with the poll question and I prefer proper images over ascii drawings but obviously that's a matter of personal taste.

As for spoiler tags - good idea.

Spoiler

testing - Hey, it already works

[close]

[sixty_something]

IsaraPIX image time limits
according to a reply  on the Isara forum:

No expiration date on IsaraPIX but that's a good suggestion to have as an option. We're also trying to figure out how to change the name of the file based on a keyword entered by the user (vacation.jpg instead of 12345678.jpg).

i just joined their forum as sixty_something, too .. apparently, one must join to view the forum .. i haven't posted anything there yet, as this reply answered our immediate question .. Isara looks like an interesting place .. it's a non-profit based in Thailand that uses 100% of its ad revenue in various worldwide charity projects

elsewhere in that thread a mention of a brief 24 hour downtime was also mentioned, but the problem was resolved and a part of an upgrade and transfer to a new server

i still stongly agree with, rubrek, that "The ideal solution would be having a direct (and permanent) link to the image on the fibsboard server"

A "Standard" Problem Style

As for the design of the polls, I like having the image up there together with the poll question and I prefer proper images over ascii drawings but obviously that's a matter of personal taste.

i really like this too .. i'm excited to see another fibster, blitzxz, has posted a problem, Doubles are hard to move .. it is our first move problem, much harder to create as a question than cube decisions .. he used an ASCII board representation .. personally, i found it very difficult to read, but i'm just not accustomed to that style even if it is perhaps the oldest and most universal .. i took the Position and Match ID's and set the problem up in GNUbg .. it was so so much easier to see

i resisted the temptation to go into blitzxz's post and edit it to bring it into conformity with the style i'm proposing in the Cube 10x series .. basically the only changes required are renaming it Move 101 - Doubles are hard to move, saving and inserting the board image into the question, and rewording the poll question (it now simply reads: "Correct checker play?") .. i did add a reply suggesting that and attached PNG and SGF files for others convenience

further, i realized there was no text file evaluating the answers .. so, i added another reply with those attached .. composing that text file was non-trivial, as it required copying and pasting each move alternative individually from GNUbg's hint window

thus, the process of editing a problem to conform to a "standard" style is almost as time consuming as creating a problem from scratch .. regardless, i do think a "standard" style might be best .. other than adding a post to the forum called suggested problem style and pinning it to the top (which i can do), i don't know what else to do other than what i've done here

if we're going to opt for a "standard" style, i'd rather get on top of it now than wait for a multitude of miscellaneous styles to come in .. on the other hand, i'd like to see what others may come up with .. there may well be a better style than the one i've laboriously created and adopted

whatever we do, i don't want to either impose my style on other users or discourage users from posting a problem in whatever style they want .. some problems might even be posted with nothing more than a Position/Match ID with no answers .. readers could then reply to it with their move or cube decision hidden behind a spoiler tag

what do you all think? maybe we should form a committee



Committee--a group of men who individually can do nothing but as a group decide that nothing can be done.
-- Fred Allen US radio comedian (1894 - 1956)
(maybe if we let socksey in the "group of men" we could even decide something )

[webrunner]

About uploading:
You are making this all to difficult and not failsafe. I could set up a upload service just for fibsboard. There are pated scipts that do that very well. I could buy one and install it. It is not more then 100 dollars or so. Probably even less.
That would create less problems.. agreed?

Anout your style: please don't enforce anything to users, they will get dis encouraged to post again (that is my experience).
If your style is the best way they will gradually adopt them (at least ... most people).
A forum is made by all the users, not one user or moderator, don't forget that

Spoiler

One user or moderator can however have a positive effect on a community, right sixt? 

[close]

[sixty_something]

trust me, if there is a better way, i'll be the first to jump on that band wagon .. i'm a rank newbie when it comes to handling files on servers .. so, i'm clueless as to what may or may not be easy .. this has seemed easy to me .. it is moderately time consuming, but i have nothing to compare it to

as for editing other problems, i asked blitzxz and he encouraged me to do so here and in tells at fibs which i'm happy to do .. but i'm not enforcing anything .. i certainly don't want to suppress anyone from posting their positions either, in any format they like, in fact i'm doing everything i can to encourage it

but np, Eric, i'm just excited to have a convenient place for sharing fibs related game situations as problems .. time will take care of most issues that come up anyway .. for now,  i really don't see anything to be concerned about .. yet, i respect your experience and opinion

regarding simplicity, the only thing required to use the style i've adopted for these first few problems is outlined in the code window below

Code Select Expand

[img]http://www.yourimagefile.png[/img] [size=13pt] your problem setup ... [b] question

that's all there is to it .. note that neither the size nor boldface bracket needs to be closed .. since the space in the question of a poll seems to be limited to about 230 characters, this can be a helpful tip .. btw, is there any way you can increase that space for a poll question, Eric?

Spoiler

also, i have been around long enough to know trying to enforce anything on fibsters is like herding cats in a thunderstorm

[close]

blame socksey for "enforcing", by good example, my new habit of adding a quote to the bottom of my posts .. i like quotes almost as much as puzzles and problems

He who postpones the hour of living is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out before he crosses.
-Horace, poet and satirist (65-8 BCE)

(imo, he who waits for or insists on a perfect solution
       won't get across the river either,
       there are many ways and many places to cross a river)

[rubreg]

composing that text file was non-trivial, as it required copying and pasting each move alternative individually from GNUbg's hint window

You don't have to copy&paste each move individually. You can select more than one move by holding 'shift' or 'ctrl' while clicking. If you want a continuous part of a list, click on the first item and shift-click on the last. If you want several single ones, ctrl-click each of them to add them to your selection. Press ctrl-A to quickly select the complete hint window in one quick go.

As for a standard style I agree with webrunner in that nothing should be enforced. Still I think a few ... eerr .... well ..... suggestions could be given. Like a standard topic title with consistent numbering ('Cube [no.]' / 'Move [no.]'), because this way it's easier to keep track of and refer to problems. I'd also suggest posters include a solution to their problem, for obvious reasons (either as an attached text file or simply hidden behind spoiler tags).

As for image vs. ascii - whether an ascii board displays well strongly depends on your system/browser/font settings. I'm attaching an example of cube 106 as displayed on my konqueror with standard settings. Maybe this could be remedied if the ascii board were inserted between 'code' tags, but I'm not sure. Yes, I have worked on terminals and I appreciate the command line and all - but I really think images look nicer and I did the exact same thing as sixty - set up the ascii boards in gnu to look at them there...

[sixty_something]

thanks for another good GNUbg tip, rubreg .. i use that ctrl/shift technique a lot, but it didn't occur to me to try it when copying from the GNUbg hint window or analysis panel

as for enforcing anything, that's just impossible unless we set up some sort of submit/approve cycle . i'd rather just see what comes in, if anything .. i'll continue posting a problem every day or so and see whether others join in .. i'll also try writing up a description of what i do to post a problem in the style i've developed (already have in a thread below) .. i'll rewrite it from the suggestions received in this thread and things that i've learned, but for a simple idea it is tricky and subtle to get it functional and useable .. regardless, others can chose to use it or develop their own style

i too like the idea of numbering the problems in some way, but i'm not going into future posts without permission from the poster to modify them .. i edited blitzxz's three problems yesterday with his consent .. it was not much different than creating the problem myself in either time or attention .. despite carefully checking and double checking the image that got posted was a mirror image of the board in Cube 107 .. Tomawaky caught the error and i corrected it before it caused any confusion .. but it's a good example that the job of problem editor, if we were to have one, is a job requiring careful attention and skill .. i self-appointed myself to that job with blitzxz's posts, but will not do that again unless asked

it seems as if we're coming dangerously close to making a committee decision about something that exists only as a worry anyway .. i'm going to just keep doing what i've been doing and be glad to help others along the way - helping isn't enforcing .. but it is a fine line which without consensus will lead to frustration for all .. frustration is not fun

Committee--a group of men who individually can do nothing but as a group decide that nothing can be done.
-- Fred Allen US radio comedian (1894 - 1956)

[webrunner]

I stumbled upon this:
http://image.backgammonbase.com/

A great way to make board images from GNUBG ID's.

[stog]

http://www.fibsboard.com/backgammon-problems/hi-stog-whats-the-best-way-to-post-a-readable-match-to-fibsboard-t2106.0.html