posting a position as a problem was a problem

[webrunner]

Personally i find the image inside the poll annoying. it messes up the lay-out and doesn't make reading the poll easier. I really don't see the benefit of the image in there, especially with the work you are creating for yourself.
Futhermore it will leave a X when the image is deleted. Since backgammon problems are informational resources that stay interesting, no matter how old they are, i would advise for a more durable solution.

I think uploading the image with the post is still the best solution. It is a proven mechanism and everyone can use it.

[Tomawaky]

Agreed with Webrunner, uploading is more simple.

I thought about html code to avoid using too many space, but if it's not a problem !






Let's go with uploading....

One other thing is that the way it is done here, is very simple for all : Edit position online then copy/paste in post and nothing else to do.

[sixty_something]

well, some like chocolate, some like vanilla .. i really like seeing the image in the question space and find having to scroll down for the uploaded image annoying .. particularly when readers replies may contain spoilers giving away the answer .. imho, there is nothing more annoying than looking forward to solving a problem only to find another reader has enthusiastically given away the answer

yes, if the on-line image disappears or if the url changes we get no image (and it inevitably will) .. thus, i will continue to attach the image so it will always be available as will the GNUbg analysis or answer .. the only resolution to this is to allow access to stored images at the fibsboard server or another permanent location .. i recognize this creates another level of admin or permissions which i've been asking Eric about for over a week .. i assume that's not going to happen and respect your perspectives and opinions as server administrators

my intent all along has been to seek simplicity, but my priority has been simplicity for:

• reader
• poster
• admin

as i have experience primarily from the top of that list down with only limited experience with managing smaller Yahoo! groups on-line and yours is from the bottom up, i suspect that explains the difference in our perspectives

regardless, it appears we have a workable procedure for creating an interesting series of problems which will hopefully add to both the entertainment and enlightenment of our readers .. i will continue to post problems using my preferred image inserted method, for now, but will also include the attached reference file .. at worst at some point in the future, we get a little red X and readers will learn to scroll down for the reference file .. until then all is well

i will write up a procedure for "Posting Problems" focusing on attaching problems and pin it to the top of the forum .. given that we may have hundreds of these problems by years end, i think it would be best to create a separate forum called "Problems", but they certainly fit in "Improving your backgammon skills"


All creative people should be required to leave California for three months every year.
-- Gloria Swanson US actress (1899 - 1983)

[webrunner]

Tomowaky, i wrote to the owner of the site with the board creater where i can get e version. I haven't recieved any answer yet 

[webrunner]

Also: i could install a mod of the forum that gives the ability to posty spoiler information behind a button. That way readers first have to push a botton before they can see the spoiler information. I think that would be usefull don't you agree?

[sixty_something]

yes, avoiding spoilers yet encouraging commentary would be really nice .. otherwise, readers would have to create a separate post or attach their comments in a text file or something

still leaving the initial message may be necessary even useful for first time users

good idea

How little a thing can make us happy when we feel that we have earned it.
-- Mark Twain in The Diaries of Adam and Eve
    US humorist, novelist, short story author, & wit (1835 - 1910)

[Tomawaky]

Tomowaky, i wrote to the owner of the site with the board creater where i can get e version. I haven't recieved any answer yet 

Good I waited to know if this solution will be used or not before writing him an email and ask to make some change for Forum post.
We'll see if he will answer or not. I think this feature would be great to fibsboard.

[webrunner]

Good I waited to know if this solution will be used or not before writing him an email and ask to make some change for Forum post.
We'll see if he will answer or not. I think this feature would be great to fibsboard.

I offered to make the changes for him and donate them back to the users community.

[rubreg]

yes, if the on-line image disappears or if the url changes we get no image (and it inevitably will) .. thus, i will continue to attach the image so it will always be available as will the GNUbg analysis or answer

Attaching the image to the posting certainly is a good idea.

As for the longevity of uploaded images to IsaraPix - I have no idea how long they will stay online and I couldn't find any info on their site either. Guess we'll find out the hard way. It could be a certain fixed time span, but I think on some sites files only get deleted if no one *accesses* them for a certain time. Personally I haven't used IsaraPix yet (only heard good feedback from other users), but on imageshack I've had some pix up for a year or two and they're still there. The ideal solution would be having a direct (and permanent) link to the image on the fibsboard server.

As for the design of the polls, I like having the image up there together with the poll question and I prefer proper images over ascii drawings but obviously that's a matter of personal taste.

As for spoiler tags - good idea.

Spoiler

testing - Hey, it already works

[close]

[sixty_something]

IsaraPIX image time limits
according to a reply  on the Isara forum:

No expiration date on IsaraPIX but that's a good suggestion to have as an option. We're also trying to figure out how to change the name of the file based on a keyword entered by the user (vacation.jpg instead of 12345678.jpg).

i just joined their forum as sixty_something, too .. apparently, one must join to view the forum .. i haven't posted anything there yet, as this reply answered our immediate question .. Isara looks like an interesting place .. it's a non-profit based in Thailand that uses 100% of its ad revenue in various worldwide charity projects

elsewhere in that thread a mention of a brief 24 hour downtime was also mentioned, but the problem was resolved and a part of an upgrade and transfer to a new server

i still stongly agree with, rubrek, that "The ideal solution would be having a direct (and permanent) link to the image on the fibsboard server"

A "Standard" Problem Style

As for the design of the polls, I like having the image up there together with the poll question and I prefer proper images over ascii drawings but obviously that's a matter of personal taste.

i really like this too .. i'm excited to see another fibster, blitzxz, has posted a problem, Doubles are hard to move .. it is our first move problem, much harder to create as a question than cube decisions .. he used an ASCII board representation .. personally, i found it very difficult to read, but i'm just not accustomed to that style even if it is perhaps the oldest and most universal .. i took the Position and Match ID's and set the problem up in GNUbg .. it was so so much easier to see

i resisted the temptation to go into blitzxz's post and edit it to bring it into conformity with the style i'm proposing in the Cube 10x series .. basically the only changes required are renaming it Move 101 - Doubles are hard to move, saving and inserting the board image into the question, and rewording the poll question (it now simply reads: "Correct checker play?") .. i did add a reply suggesting that and attached PNG and SGF files for others convenience

further, i realized there was no text file evaluating the answers .. so, i added another reply with those attached .. composing that text file was non-trivial, as it required copying and pasting each move alternative individually from GNUbg's hint window

thus, the process of editing a problem to conform to a "standard" style is almost as time consuming as creating a problem from scratch .. regardless, i do think a "standard" style might be best .. other than adding a post to the forum called suggested problem style and pinning it to the top (which i can do), i don't know what else to do other than what i've done here

if we're going to opt for a "standard" style, i'd rather get on top of it now than wait for a multitude of miscellaneous styles to come in .. on the other hand, i'd like to see what others may come up with .. there may well be a better style than the one i've laboriously created and adopted

whatever we do, i don't want to either impose my style on other users or discourage users from posting a problem in whatever style they want .. some problems might even be posted with nothing more than a Position/Match ID with no answers .. readers could then reply to it with their move or cube decision hidden behind a spoiler tag

what do you all think? maybe we should form a committee



Committee--a group of men who individually can do nothing but as a group decide that nothing can be done.
-- Fred Allen US radio comedian (1894 - 1956)
(maybe if we let socksey in the "group of men" we could even decide something )

[webrunner]

About uploading:
You are making this all to difficult and not failsafe. I could set up a upload service just for fibsboard. There are pated scipts that do that very well. I could buy one and install it. It is not more then 100 dollars or so. Probably even less.
That would create less problems.. agreed?

Anout your style: please don't enforce anything to users, they will get dis encouraged to post again (that is my experience).
If your style is the best way they will gradually adopt them (at least ... most people).
A forum is made by all the users, not one user or moderator, don't forget that

Spoiler

One user or moderator can however have a positive effect on a community, right sixt? 

[close]

[sixty_something]

trust me, if there is a better way, i'll be the first to jump on that band wagon .. i'm a rank newbie when it comes to handling files on servers .. so, i'm clueless as to what may or may not be easy .. this has seemed easy to me .. it is moderately time consuming, but i have nothing to compare it to

as for editing other problems, i asked blitzxz and he encouraged me to do so here and in tells at fibs which i'm happy to do .. but i'm not enforcing anything .. i certainly don't want to suppress anyone from posting their positions either, in any format they like, in fact i'm doing everything i can to encourage it

but np, Eric, i'm just excited to have a convenient place for sharing fibs related game situations as problems .. time will take care of most issues that come up anyway .. for now,  i really don't see anything to be concerned about .. yet, i respect your experience and opinion

regarding simplicity, the only thing required to use the style i've adopted for these first few problems is outlined in the code window below

Code Select Expand

[img]http://www.yourimagefile.png[/img] [size=13pt] your problem setup ... [b] question

that's all there is to it .. note that neither the size nor boldface bracket needs to be closed .. since the space in the question of a poll seems to be limited to about 230 characters, this can be a helpful tip .. btw, is there any way you can increase that space for a poll question, Eric?

Spoiler

also, i have been around long enough to know trying to enforce anything on fibsters is like herding cats in a thunderstorm

[close]

blame socksey for "enforcing", by good example, my new habit of adding a quote to the bottom of my posts .. i like quotes almost as much as puzzles and problems

He who postpones the hour of living is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out before he crosses.
-Horace, poet and satirist (65-8 BCE)

(imo, he who waits for or insists on a perfect solution
       won't get across the river either,
       there are many ways and many places to cross a river)

[rubreg]

composing that text file was non-trivial, as it required copying and pasting each move alternative individually from GNUbg's hint window

You don't have to copy&paste each move individually. You can select more than one move by holding 'shift' or 'ctrl' while clicking. If you want a continuous part of a list, click on the first item and shift-click on the last. If you want several single ones, ctrl-click each of them to add them to your selection. Press ctrl-A to quickly select the complete hint window in one quick go.

As for a standard style I agree with webrunner in that nothing should be enforced. Still I think a few ... eerr .... well ..... suggestions could be given. Like a standard topic title with consistent numbering ('Cube [no.]' / 'Move [no.]'), because this way it's easier to keep track of and refer to problems. I'd also suggest posters include a solution to their problem, for obvious reasons (either as an attached text file or simply hidden behind spoiler tags).

As for image vs. ascii - whether an ascii board displays well strongly depends on your system/browser/font settings. I'm attaching an example of cube 106 as displayed on my konqueror with standard settings. Maybe this could be remedied if the ascii board were inserted between 'code' tags, but I'm not sure. Yes, I have worked on terminals and I appreciate the command line and all - but I really think images look nicer and I did the exact same thing as sixty - set up the ascii boards in gnu to look at them there...

[sixty_something]

thanks for another good GNUbg tip, rubreg .. i use that ctrl/shift technique a lot, but it didn't occur to me to try it when copying from the GNUbg hint window or analysis panel

as for enforcing anything, that's just impossible unless we set up some sort of submit/approve cycle . i'd rather just see what comes in, if anything .. i'll continue posting a problem every day or so and see whether others join in .. i'll also try writing up a description of what i do to post a problem in the style i've developed (already have in a thread below) .. i'll rewrite it from the suggestions received in this thread and things that i've learned, but for a simple idea it is tricky and subtle to get it functional and useable .. regardless, others can chose to use it or develop their own style

i too like the idea of numbering the problems in some way, but i'm not going into future posts without permission from the poster to modify them .. i edited blitzxz's three problems yesterday with his consent .. it was not much different than creating the problem myself in either time or attention .. despite carefully checking and double checking the image that got posted was a mirror image of the board in Cube 107 .. Tomawaky caught the error and i corrected it before it caused any confusion .. but it's a good example that the job of problem editor, if we were to have one, is a job requiring careful attention and skill .. i self-appointed myself to that job with blitzxz's posts, but will not do that again unless asked

it seems as if we're coming dangerously close to making a committee decision about something that exists only as a worry anyway .. i'm going to just keep doing what i've been doing and be glad to help others along the way - helping isn't enforcing .. but it is a fine line which without consensus will lead to frustration for all .. frustration is not fun

Committee--a group of men who individually can do nothing but as a group decide that nothing can be done.
-- Fred Allen US radio comedian (1894 - 1956)

[webrunner]

I stumbled upon this:
http://image.backgammonbase.com/

A great way to make board images from GNUBG ID's.

[stog]

http://www.fibsboard.com/backgammon-problems/hi-stog-whats-the-best-way-to-post-a-readable-match-to-fibsboard-t2106.0.html