Does BGOnline show rating?

[gflohr]

Hi,

I never really played with it but some time ago I downloaded BGOnline on my iPhone, the app that ipdentifies itself as PhoneUser.MaybeFlaky.net on FIBS. My information is therefore maybe wrong because I don't know it good enough.

I have actually not seen any information about my own rating in the user interface, leave alone what RepBotNG is thinking about me.  The screenshots available online also don't suggest anything contrary.  So, isn't it possible that many of these evil "droppers" are actually not even aware of the consequences of their behavior? Imagine somebody who downloaded that app for € 1.79 from AppStore, now plays a couple of matches "online" and then comes into a low-equity position and says "F.* it!", and turns off the phone.  I somewhat doubt that these people really deem themselves overly evil.  It's just a natural reaction: I play against a computer, I'm losing, I click "Cancel", "X", Alt-F4, and I go on my business.  Honestly, start playing any other game than backgammon against a computer, and this is exactly your behavior, when you are not aware that your opponent is a human being that you are socializing with in that very moment.

Actually, in a non-professional environment, it is even quite a natural reaction in live-play.  Play any odd game against somebody who is not taking this particular game too serious, and maneuver this person into a losing position.  If it takes a minute to lose, many people will agree to play to the bitter end.  If it takes longer, then the losing party may find it ridiculous to play that farce to an end, maybe because this party is ignorant of more or less marginal winning chances.

@the authors of the mobile apps: Can't you make it more obvious that your users are playing a human, social being? If the rating of the users of the "classic" clients is such a big thing for them, can't you make this rating more obvious?  If you see yourself how much it hurts being dropped you are more reluctant to drop yourself, and more willing to continue dropped games.

NOT @the authors of the mobile apps: I think it is mostly impossible to prevent the drop clicks by software.  For example in the iphone this is not possible by design. Everybody should therefore find a way to live with that situation.  It is not that difficult; dropper-whining can only be topped by dice-whining.  Just don't play droppers (there's many ways to avoid them).

If you are not sure about my point, here it is: FIBS today would probably run dry without mobile users.  If these people that contribute a good deal to the mere presence of FIBS today misbehave, don't blame them, they maybe don't even hear you.  Rather cooperate with the authors of the mobile software, so that they can try to make the problem more apparent to their users.  And to the rest of yous: If you are not in the top 100 on FIBS, it is not because of droppers.  It is because you are a lousy backgammon player! Like me! ;-)

Cheers,
Guido

[jackdaddy]

I use the BGOnline app on my iPod, and it is not identified by the PhoneUser.MaybeFlaky tag. Could be you have some other app, or you need to update yours. Also, the BGOnline does show the inviter/invited RepBot ratings, and saved games, and if i remember correctly, has a player list that identifies bots.

[diane]

If you are not sure about my point, here it is: FIBS today would probably run dry without mobile users. 

This is not true...it is my understanding that accommodating the phone users is pushing FIBS beyond what it was designed for.  Particularly when you consider the dropped connections [unintentional], because the interface does not log you out of FIBS - so you continue to sit online, long after you are doing something else.

That was one of the reasons for introducing the time out.

As jd states, BGOnline players do not get labelled as flakey - and are generally much more reliable than Odesys players.  That seems to back up the fact that the more of FIBS the user sees, the more involved they feel, and the less likely they are to drop when losing etc.

The Odesys interface has none of the functionality of even BGOnline - they don't see repbot, they cant invite players to resume matches, they cant even change matchlengths easily.  Talking is a pain, and there are no shouts, or server messages.  All of that makes for a very uninvested player, who mostly doesn't know what is going on and has no chance to learn.  They will get frustrated, probably as frustrated as the computer users, because they haven't the foggiest what's going on.

Odesys users get a message on logging in that they are playing at FIBS and to be courteous and finish matches...but all fibsters logging into FIBS are asked to be nice to each other and told that bad behaviour wont be tolerated - and look how seriously that is taken 

I wont play Odesys players from my computer, but I do have Odesys on my phone, and sometimes log in with it. Then I will play them, because on an equal playing field, it isn't so bad.

The key message still seems to be for me that the concept of logging into FIBS from a phone on the move is wonderful - and can alleviate boredom of journeys as well as allowing a little log in time when away from the home PC.  BUT, the reality isn't really there yet, and it is best used by people who ALSO log in from a computer and can pick up dropped matches later.

All that said - Odesys was a great step out there towards mobile FIBS - and BGOnline, second generation is much better - soon mobile clients will be just as functional as the PC interfaces 

[gflohr]

@jd: I think the application for the iphone and the ipad are not the same.  On the iphone you can only see your own rating and experience in the players list.  And I haven't found anything at all about RepBotNG.

@diane: My point is that the behavior of the mobile droppers is quite normal, quite human, quite understandable.  The interfaces should enforce a certain level of netiquette.  The distributors of Odesys and BGOnline make money with their apps.  I think as a compensation they could enhance their applications so that their use becomes tolerable for the FIBS community.

Mobile internet connections are instable, there is nothing that the authors of the mobile apps can do about it.  But they could for example automatically resume all saved games when the user logs in.  And they could automatically accept all resume requests.  Most mobile users would probably even appreciate such a feature.

And, yes, I agree.  The mobile apps should expose more of the FIBS community and should maybe also put more focus on the rating system.

[enoix]

Hi all,
I'm the programmer of BG Online (both iPad and iPhone). (I'm also a student, so everything takes a while ...)

Current state:

The first screen in the players section shows you some categories into which all players are sorted (a bots and a saved list as well ...) and also - at the top - a table cell with the login name, reputation and experience (on iPad this is not exactly the case, but after the already submitted update it will). Also, when you are invited or select a player BGOnline automatically asks the RepBot for informations about the invitee/inviter which are subsequently displayed to the user. If you select yourself (which atm only is possible when you select youself in a category; the table cell mentioned above is not selectable) you get this information for yourself.

@gflohr you can also chat directly to RepBotNG but as I mentioned above the green/red alerts at the top of the display when being invited or inviting is the result of a RepBot query

The latest version (already for iPhone, upcoming for iPad) also shows any new Message of the Day in the player list (until you hide it manually).

BGOnline players (both iPad and iPhone) are not marked as flakey


what could be done:

I have a few ideas to encourage netiquette:
- enrich the user table cell with reputation info
- ask the user to resume when someone with a saved game logs in (rather than fully automatic resuming which I wouldn't like the user to be forced to)
- mark player's which are mentioned by MissManners in the player lists
- and forward a MissManners warning to the user itself directly as an alert to the user
- add a netiquette sheet to the help pages

I will add these and any other good ideas here (which don't force the user to do s.th. but helps him and encourage him/her to be a good citizen) to my to-do list. But as I mentioned above, everything takes a while atm.

sorry for my english and greets from Germany

Regards,
enoix

[diane]

@diane: My point is that the behavior of the mobile droppers is quite normal, quite human, quite understandable. 

Please bear in mind, the majority of fibs users are not very understanding...

The experience of playing an Odesys user from a computer is currently not very rewarding - so it is ideal if they play each other for now.

I am sure the clients will improve, and am eagerly awaiting that, and my admiration goes out to those who put all this time and effort into building the clients for all to use, whether or not they make a few pence off them.

and greets to you to too enoix

[Tomawaky]

I play sometimes with http://www.bgblitz2go.com/ and it's a quiet good interface.
All of these new mobile interfaces are a great improvment for fibs I think.

[jackdaddy]

Hi all,
I'm the programmer of BG Online (both iPad and iPhone). (I'm also a student, so everything takes a while ...)

Oh man do I have a lot to ask you, but it may take another thread. There are a lot of improvements with the latest update, but seems to be far more bugs than before. I have never had to leave as many matches due to bugs in the app as I had before. When is the next update due?

[socksey]

- ask the user to resume when someone with a saved game logs in (rather than fully automatic resuming which I wouldn't like the user to be forced to)

I'm wondering why this would be so disagreeable?  If the dropped player is free, I can't imagine they would not like to resume, unless, of course, they are dirty rotten dropper scum, too!     This gives you a clue how the old-timer, desktop/laptop computer users feel about the frequent dropping of phone users.

I am happy to have a programmer reply here to possibly solve some of the problems phone users experience.     I am looking forward to the day that I accept phone users happily.     I have thusfar been avoiding them like the plague except a few I know already.   

socksey



"Lying in bed would be an altogether perfect and supreme experience if only one had a coloured pencil long enough to draw on the ceiling." - G.K. Chesterton

[enoix]

Oh man do I have a lot to ask you, but it may take another thread. There are a lot of improvements with the latest update, but seems to be far more bugs than before. I have never had to leave as many matches due to bugs in the app as I had before. When is the next update due?

Sorry for that ... the next update has already been submitted to the app store but it always takes some days until it's downloadable (which is a shame if a quick update is necessary ... like now)

[maria]

If you are not sure about my point, here it is: FIBS today would probably run dry without mobile users. 

Cheers,
Guido

Excuse me, but that comment has really got me riled up.  FIBS has been around for over 18 years and about 15 of those years WITHOUT mobile users.