Personal responsibility and FIBS drama

[Patti]

I've had to explain this several times in the last few weeks, and many many times in the last decade and a half, so I'm going to say it publicly.  This is not intended for any one individual.  Rather, it is addressed to all of you who create and feed drama on FIBS and engage in abusive behavior.

You are responsible for your behavior on FIBS.  You are the one sitting at your keyboard shouting, kibitzing, and telling.  You are the person who put your fingers on the keys and typed out your last message.  YOU.

I keep getting dragged into playground dramas and bad behavior.  Every time I talk to someone about their unacceptable behavior on FIBS, their response is, "But (the other person) said (some mean thing) about me.  (The other person) started it.  I was just defending myself."

That argument carries no weight with me.  Maybe (the other person) did say something mean about you.  They did not make you reply.  No, you are the person who put your fingers on the keyboard and composed a reply-- they did not make you do it.  You choose whether you engage with this person or not, and if you choose to engage with them then you are feeding the drama.  They did not make you do it-- YOU MADE THE CHOICE, and you are responsible for it.

You can't control what someone else says on FIBS.  You can control whether you listen to it or not, though, and you are 100% responsible for the way that you do or don't respond to it.

Own your behavior.  Think twice about what you say and do.  Try to deescalate conflicts rather than escalating them.  And whatever you do, don't blame your behavior on anyone but yourself.

[diane]

This is an admirable approach to what is a very difficult area to moderate, with regard to human behaviour.

Recent escalation of episodes of cyberbullying and associated suicides have highlighted just how incredibly powerful anonymous attacks over the internet can be. 

There is much work going on to understand this over reaction of people to [someone] saying something [mean] about them over the internet, and the most likely source of that reaction is that the [mean] thing is seen by so many people.

Once upon a time, someone said something [mean] to you in the playground, you could either ignore it and tell the 5 or 10 people who saw it the truth, or you could pummell the person who said it into the ground, so that the 5-10 people who saw it would not dream of repeating it, and the person who said it would defintely never do that again.  Now someone says something mean about you, you cant do ANYTHING about it, you cant ignore it, because it is spreading like wildfire, and you cant shut the speaker up, because they are hiding somewhere - physically and legally. 

That powerlessness drives humans crazy...literally.

We are evolving to deal with life on the internet, we are growing up and getting more used to and less outraged by things that go on.  In the meantime, some patience with and understanding that it is natural for people to escalate the bad behaviour would go a long way [note, I do not use words like 'condone' or 'tolerate'].

Take that understanding, and make positive, helpful statements like the one I am replying to, about why we need to not react - and to moderate our own actions..rather than have a place that is smothered, or burdensome to its admin.

And above all, do not allow people to sit on your site, abusing and ignoring the policy you have just outlined for well over 10 years without doing something about it.  All the time they do that, the new intake will escalate, troll, spread and feed on that.

[ah_clem]

I've been off fibs for a couple of weeks.  Sounds like I missed quite a soap-opera.

On the positive side, I'm sure that there's more to come,  so I doubt I really missed anything. 

[manxcat]

"Now someone says something mean about you, you cant do ANYTHING about it,
you cant ignore it,
because it is spreading like wildfire,
and you cant shut the speaker up,
because they are hiding somewhere - physically and legally." 

This is true...

but Patti you are saying that everyone has to abide by the same rules.

I have never seen that happen. 

There are people who are permitted to say whatever they wish about anyone else, and are never banned,
and
NOW
you are saying that we should just let them to continue to defame whomever they choose to.

The defamed should not ESCALATE things by DEFENDING themselves

which only allows the defamers to continue to create the impressions they choose

because the defamers are NOT STOPPED

But the defenders are.

Anywhere else in the country one is allowed to defend oneself.  It is a right, but not here.  Only defamers are allowed to continue.

[dorbel]

And above all, do not allow people to sit on your site, abusing and ignoring the policy you have just outlined for well over 10 years without doing something about it.  All the time they do that, the new intake will escalate, troll, spread and feed on that.

because the defamers are NOT STOPPED

But the defenders are.

Diane and WildThing make good points here Patti. There are aggressors and there are victims here. Perhaps if you were to distinguish between them and address the problem bullies, the bullied wouldn't have anything to whine about.

[stog]

i think this is not about whether people can respond, which they can, it is more about how they respond;

one type of response may merely correct an untruth, another may correct, but also inflame a situation...

and often it is best to let something disappear into the ether unchallenged........

How people treat you is their karma

How you react is yours

[ah_clem]

FIBS Shouts reminds me of that old aphorism about academia:

"The battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small."

[Patti]

See, that's the thing.  I don't believe there *are* aggressors and victims.  Every time I've checked, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME, I've found aggressors and aggressors.  Everyone claims that they're the innocent victim, but I've never seen a case where that was true.

[manxcat]

Then you are not looking very closely or carefully, because there have been many times and many people, myself included, where we have not been aggressive in response.  We have simply asked the person to stop, or asked why they insist on obsessing over us, and even ignored them while the flames continued.  I know dorbel, among others, has suffered in silence on many occasions, while he was flamed and insulted.  

And just maybe because we did not respond in kind, there were no complaints, and therefore you did not see those myriad occasions.

But sometimes... you need to set the record straight.
Why you ask?
Because otherwise you get a negative reputation and people come into tell to comment on the flames, or to ask the truth, and (most often) to insult and continue the abuse.  People begin to dislike others based on the venom spouted by the trolls and ****stirrers.



And in case you continue to not see this, I will be more than happy to inform  you of it, when I see it.

[Patti]

Show me one person, ONE, who has been the subject of hostilities and has never thrown any.

The only possible cases I can think of are Odesys users, and that's only because they can't participate in shouts.  The abuse that's heaped on them is usually "(user) is a dropper", and it's generally a fact-based statement.

[manxcat]

bonnita has been the target of unpleasantness and has never been even the slightest bit rude, much less thrown ANY hostility or invective.  There are others
but
I did not say never....

I said on myriad occasions
which you for some reason can't see...
because most of the time there is no issue because there is no response


Even you have said some very unpleasant things
But then you have the power to do what you wish.
Then again, all this discussion is moot because you will do exactly as you have planned anyway.

BTW are you going to return my shouts?  You started this over YOUR misunderstanding of a joke I made with socksey.  And in the end I defended myself during your 5 minute recess.  Much worse has gone one since and continues to, yet I have no shout.  But many other, worse offenders do.  I asked you to poll if people think you are fair.  You demurred.  I think i will set one up.

[Patti]

I declared a five-minute moratorium on picking on each other.  It took a whole 31 seconds for you to hurl an insult about someone, and do so in a way which indicated that you'd read my five-minute moratorium message.  Hurling an insult is not defending yourself-- it's attacking someone.  It was also doing something that I'd very clearly just asked you (and everyone else) not to do.  

As I told you privately, you can have your shouts back when you take responsibility for your actions.  You don't seem interested in doing that-- you keep hiding behind the empty excuse that you were defending yourself.

[manxcat]

I have told you I take responsibility for my actions, always have, always will.
I guess that is not enough.  


I did not insult inim
inim shouts: no need to comment that bunch of lies, WT
You shout: no lies
You shout: how many itmes have i asked you to stop evenwhen i agreed with you
You shout:  no lies
inim shouts: i is not exactly "we all"
inim shouts: and personally i do not recall you asking me anything
Patti shouts: FIVE MINUTE MORATORIUM ON PICKING ON EACH OTHER, starting now.  The first one who violates it gets a shout ban.
You shout: sure right after inim gets hto say his lies

I was commenting on your timing, and that i would not be allowed to rebut inim


Perhaps lies was the wrong term, perhaps he simply has memory problems. If so I do sincerely apologize.
But as often as he has been asked to stop, and cannot remember, I think we should help him.  And I would ask anyone here who has asked him to stop to please post here.
A simple "I have" will suffice.  Whether it was please stop, or give it a rest, or stfu need not be included.  


I personally have asked him as have most regular shouters.  On one occasion, I said to him, while I normally agree with you, just this once could you please stop.  It's Sunday.  Just for today.  And he said since you ask nice manxie, I will stop. 

[Patti]

And you don't think calling someone a liar (which is what you did by calling his statements lies) is an insult?  You could have said the same thing without insinuating that he was a liar with something like, "sure, right after inim had his say."

[PersianLord]

Should I remind you that the single most important recommendations to heed in jurisdiction sphere are 'consistency' and 'equity'? Well, I have to say that based on my 3 years of experience in FIBS, and even though that all FIBSters are assumed to be treated equally, it seems that some members are a little bit more equal than others in the eyes of our beloved, benevolent despot. This sad phenomenon sometimes reach such gigantic dimensions that I wonder what pleasing favors these blue-eyed boys have done to gain your Royal Assent which enables them to ignite the evil flames of war among the nation without any correctional action coming from the sysopian office.

If you abolish the unfair privileges that the apples of your eyes enjoy, all of the FIBS nation will be as obedient and calm as a retarded sheep and, I assure you, that there will be not even a single occasion of a blasphemous challenge to your sacred, divine throne. (Inshallah)

PL

[manxcat]

I told you then I responded so fast I could not stop it.
Have you never done that?
Of course not you are perfect as are your as Purrsian so aptly put it 'apples'.
Why do you think i shouted #### right after that???

[RickrInSF]

Patti,
  I think you are wrong to say that all aggressors are the same. You have some some cyber bullies on your site and this is not the same as kindergarten, although i understand your inclination to think so. I have no solutions to offer you, i wouldn't do your job unless you paid me far more than you make I am so sorry that i ever caused you extra work, i didn't understand at the time.

  I was attacked by bullies on your site from day one (in retrospect, i would not have put SF in my nickname if i had known there were so many homophobes on fibs), and i have found from other chat sites that the only way to not be constantly harrassed by bullies is to immeadiately fight back (not with name calling or swearing, but with humour and wit), "being nice" and taking it like dorbel does for hours, never seems to work.

anyway, thanks for fibs, i hope you can find some solution (if you do, you can probably make a mint selling it to other chat rooms

[Patti]

Perhaps the fact that you responded with an insult so quickly that you couldn't stop it is a reason to give you pause?  If insulting people is so ingrained that you couldn't stop it, then perhaps you are far more entrenched in the hostilities than you think?

As for consistency, everyone has a level playing field coming in. Once you've broken rules and caused problems then the standards do change.  I am far less lenient with repeat offenders.  I suspect that the people who whine about me being inconsistent are the ones who are caused me trouble repeatedly over the years.

[PersianLord]

As for consistency, everyone has a level playing field coming in. Once you've broken rules and caused problems then the standards do change.  I am far less lenient with repeat offenders.  I suspect that the people who whine about me being inconsistent are the ones who are caused me trouble repeatedly over the years.

Off point. Every one might behave badly from time to time and s/he should be punished. So what? Does it provide for a base to treat fibsters unequally?!

PL

[NIHILIST]

I dont have much of a gripe, I've been bully and bullied. I just have one simple question; why the special treatment for inim ? Does he have disemvowelling privileges or have you created a bot that does it or are you just always around to powder his bottom ?

I think youll find that he spreads as much discord as anyone on FIBS, especially when he gets on one of his anti-Israel rants.

Bob