Hit (once, twice) or play safe?

[ebi]

Hi all

This is my first post so please tell me if I did something wrong. I am currently reading "backgammon for serious players" from Bill Robertie (probably not the best book as I learned later on) never the less I was interested in the reasoning for some moves. So this one catched my special attention.


What and why do you think is the best move?

Spoiler

The book suggests 6/4* 13/10 which makes perfect sense to me since you can slot the 4 point (at some risk) and have another builder down from 13. Now gnubg suggest that 11/6 would be better and the best move would be 6/4*/1*. I can understand 11/6 which is probably the move I'd made (since apparently I play a bit too defensive) but how is 6/4*/1* a good move? The enemy will lose his next roll to get into the board but you kinda lose the checker at the 1 point and have a risk with next to no return?

[close]

Thanks for your answers
---ebi

[ah_clem]

If it weren't for the fact that red has a three point homeboard and black has only a one point homeboard, the automatic play is to whack both checkers 6/4*/1*.  Whenever you can put two checkers on the roof you should seriously consider doing so - it's not always best, but it's always worth a good look.  With two on the bar your opponent will have to use his entire roll to enter and this gains tempo - you get a chance to improve your position while his move is forced.  And even with a weak board like this one, 11/36 times he's still on the bar after his move.

In this position, red has a strong board so that makes the double hit and ensuing blot more risky.  I'm inclined towards 13/8 - I don't like stacking six(!) checkers on one point with 11/6 and I think it's worth leaving a double indirect shot to have the additional flexibility of a builder on the 11.  But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the double hit is correct.

[diane]

In this position, red has a strong board so that makes the double hit and ensuing blot more risky.  

If that were the case, wouldnt that make 13/10, 6/4* a bit silly, given that there will be too many rolls that hit the 4, and a couple that hit two checkers...?

I too like the double hit..quite simply because I dont have anything else going on, and the 'tempo' gain would give me a moment to try and throw a board together, or move some builders, or anything to try and perk this up a bit!  The pip on the ace wouldnt worry too much, it is either parked for later, or recycled - burying one checker for the sake of a double hit seems a fair trade off.

[ah_clem]

If that were the case, wouldnt that make 13/10, 6/4* a bit silly, given that there will be too many rolls that hit the 4, and a couple that hit two checkers...?

Agreed.  the double hit leaves 11 return shots and I count 18 return shots for 13/10, 6/4*.  Slotting the four point seems like leading with your chin.  But one thing I've noticed about pre-bot era authors is that they have an aversion to burying a checker  and a propensity to slot the 5 and 4 points, and this bias is not always confirmed by the bots.  See for instance the opening roll 6-4.  So, I'm not surprised if Robertie advocates slotting the four, but I doubt gnu or XG agrees.

BTW, I'm not entirely sure 'BG for Serious Players' is really pre-bot - jellyfish came out in '94 and the book was '97 - but I don't think every move was checked and jellyfish was still in its infancy.

[gaspar]

well the dbl direct shot isnt so safe all 7's and 6-4 that's 8 shots that really do nothing for your position OR hitting twice which gives only 3 more shots and you have his bar pt so it ain't that dangerous if you do get hit.

i think you have to attack ...you are behind in the race (and that usually determines your mind set in these positions)

[RickrInSF]

i think it makes a difference here if it's a one pointer or not, if it's a one pointer, the double hit or 13/10, 6/4* makes sense, your behind and you have to do something to correct this or you loose, if it's not a one pointer, both look too dangerous (because of gammon possibilities)

[ah_clem]

well the dbl direct shot isnt so safe all 7's and 6-4 that's 8 shots that really do nothing for your position OR hitting twice which gives only 3 more shots and you have his bar pt so it ain't that dangerous if you do get hit.

Good point.  My play leaves 8 shots, which is not much less than the 11 that the double-hit leaves.  And the double hit allows black to substantially improve his position while red is trying to recover from the double hit.  If this was a move in the fibsboard match I'd be changing my vote at this point.

[diane]

all 7's

What dice is he playing with?     

[ebi]

Thank you very much for your answers I can now understand the possibilities a lot better I guess I would do the double hit now