Drunken TD's

[adrian]

 cheers, tschuss, sante, sanatate, ciao, egeszeget, a votre,

[PortWine]

It appears the drunken TDs win!

I'll drink to that!   :2drunk:  

[don]

I don't know if this is the right place to say this, but PortWine has gone ballistic.  He left me a cryptic message yesterday, and when I asked him about it, he seemed to fly into a rage.  He is now dragging up and quoting old messages on rec.games.backgammon, and shouting them.  His manipulation of his GUI has not improved, and he's accidentally shouted some of his messages intended as tells to his goaders.  As near as I can tell, he is supportive of NIHILIST's messages on r.g.b. from a few years ago in which NIHILIST and others stole my ID and made some very crude comments about my deceased mother among other things.

I have made it known to various TourneyBot directors that I would like a forum in which to discuss the problems I have had with TBot, which mostly stem from PortWine, I believe.  I have attempted to communicate in various manners.  I would like to suggest here, that we discuss it here.  If the TBot directors want to keep it private, then make this post the start of a thread in which we can reasonably discuss things, but limited to TBot directors and me.

But it is the secrecy with which TBot directors communicate among themselves that I object to.  Now that one of them is acting in such an unreasonable manner, I merely request a forum in which to discuss PortWine's hateful behavior.  I have no idea what is being said behind my back, but I can guarantee you that anything said by PortWine needs to be viewed with skepticism.

Help?

--
don

[burper]

I'll try to help you don.

The TD's are a group of individual's. We have differing opinions on many things, believe me. If you have an issue with any one of us, as you appear to, try to work things out with that individual, same as any other situation. If PortWine has "gone ballistic", whatever that means, what business is it of mine?

The TD's are not a "secret" organization having special meetings about you behind your back. I send and receive many email's each day, some of which don't have to do with backgammon or you at all, and on which you are not copied. I am sorry the TD's don't copy you on all their communications, but the things we are discussing would  not be of interest to you, and frankly they are none of your business. I don't mean that to sound rude. I am sure you feel the same about your communications.

As far as the subject of don goes, some of the TD's, (dare I say most?) are generally of the opinion that you enjoy arguing, and consider it sport, even when there is nothing worth arguing about. You even seem to invent arguments out of thin air. Most of us have better things to do, so we generally ignore you. I *know* I don't speak for all, but I am trying to help you understand why much of your "communication" goes ignored, based on my own feelings, and by guessing at the meaning of fellow TDs' "secret" messages. You tend to turn molehills into mountains. When someone tries to help you, as I am doing now, they get their olive branched slapped right back at them.

That said, all reasonable communications regarding a particular TD should be sent to that TD via whatever means you have: fibs chat, or fibsboard personal messages I think are preferred by most. If it is regarding a legitimate issue, I don't think it will be ignored. If you really have an issue of great importance (and you shouldn't, it's just a game for crying out loud) that you can't work out with the TD, I think that MadMatt would hear your case if he has time. He may not. If you have worn out your welcome with him, then that's your fault, not his I am sure.

I mean all this in the best possible spirit I can muster. I hope you continue to enjoy fibs and playing TB tourneys. Peace.

[alef]

If you have problems with an individual, a TD or anyone else, try to sort it out with them in private. If that doesn't work then gag/ignore them and move on.

don, as one of the TourneyBot TDs I have spent a lot of time listening to you. I've previously written you some emails in private and unfortunately you did not reply to most of what I had to say -- and our communications ended. From my point of view time is limited, other Fibsters need help, tournaments need organizing, positive contributions can be made...

If you object to how TourneyBot is run then I suggest you refrain from being involved with it. Constructive criticisms are of course always appreciated.

[lewscannon]

The TD's are not a "secret" organization .

Then what's with the hoods and the secret handshakes?

[burper]

I'm sorry lews, but we're going to have to silence you now.

[PortWine]

I edited this post because I was responding to don.  I would just like to state that I offered an olive branch, unbanned him from my tourneys and everything was fine.  Eight days later he disagreed with something I said (not to him or anyone in particular) and started to flame me.  Here we are.  If he stops shouting at me, sending me tells and messages it would all stop.

[don]

I made my post here because I don't know where else to attempt to communicate.  PortWine did indeed offer me an olive branch, which I accepted,  even though he had made no apology for his previous actions.

What really happened was that Port left me a cryptic message, I asked him about it, and he couldn't or wouldn't explain it.  Instead, he went into flame mode.  Port started the flames after I politely asked him to explain his words.  I've never flamed Port, and I have no intention of starting.

This would have nothing to do with Tourneybot if PortWine was not guilty of feeding people like Biggles information from email (or other communications) from other TBot directors for the specific purpose of flaming me.  I find it amusing to learn the opinions of other TBot directors, which I have sought, through the distorted path of PortWine/Biggles.  If PortWine had not screwed up with his GUI once again (a source of an original problem) I would not know of his behavior, but it is certain that PortWine has taken private (to me) information and fed it to Biggles to flame with.

If PortWine can separate his actions from TBot, I'll have no problem ignoring him.  When he uses TBot to flame me, directly or indirectly, I'll comment on it.

Oh, and alef, I've always found you to be reasonable, and I apologize if I failed to respond to something you've said.

--
don

[JonJon]

Don...Why do these people have such a hard-on for you? In the closed TD forum there are at least 2 threads with more than 100 posts screaming for you to be decapitated...well...okay....permanently banned from TB actually. These people have a SERIOUS problem with you. Why?

Just so you know, its not all TD's, there are a handful of us who don't really care, but believe that all the people should be allowed to use TB until a really serious violation occurs, more than just petty semantics and quibbling. And it got particularly nasty, so much so that I have refrained from participating in TB or these boards for a few weeks.

Why Don? Why Port? Why can't you two just grow up and act like adults and leave each other alone?

Oh...and when you make allegations, I think proof shold be posted...both of you, instead of just screaming that so and so did this and that. Post it. Post the offending material so we all can see it and make better judgements.

J

p.s. And Don, if you don't know where to start with a topic on a message board, then just start a new topic...there's a button you press and youcan just start a new thread rather than tacking it on to somethign else.

[PortWine]

This was a happy topic....lets keep it that way.   :2drunk:  

[don]

JonJon, I've been told that such private communications about Tbot do not exist.   Also, I've tried starting a new topic, AND provided proof and arguments for my points, with no replies nor requests for more information from Tbot directors.  You are the first to reveal the private forums.  Other directors have denied that these private forums exist.

The reason I'm posting about Tbot here is because I've attempted to communicate with TBot directors in other public and private fashions and received no satisfactory answers to my questions.  For example, I've heard of some kind of vote that was taken, from TBot directors who were afraid to vote because they were afraid of getting on the wrong side of burper.  (I heard this from a Tbot director who was afraid to vote against burper and lose priveleges, tho I had no clue where this vote was taken before now, nor what the arguments were.)

Right now, I'd like to know if PortWine's current campaign is approved by Tbot directors.  Port had asked me to resume what he calls civility, and I'd agreed, when he started shouting/flaming me.   I suppose I should never have agreed until he apologized for his previous behavior, but I was being nice.

Now, when I login, I get these messages (and PortWine wants me to leave him alone!).

     From TourneyBot (Jun 17 20:55 PDT): You have been banned from Tourney #762, by the order of PortWine.

This is kinda funny when my "Last login:  Friday, June 18 21:41 PDT from oneworld.owt.com", is over a day late and it's obvious Port is just making Tbot leave me these messages out of spite.  (Just one example, BTW.)  Or else Port is once again unaware of how to use an interface:  First his GUI (and that caused a lot of problems); now TourneyBot.

I would say that, if a Tbot director wants me to leave them alone as far as Tbot is concerned, they shouldn't set me up for messages from Tbot when I login regarding tourneys I'm not even there to play.  This is just PortWine using his Tbot priveleges to annoy me.  I'm not annoyed, but I'm amused at such juvenile behavior.  I'm also concerned to know if Port or other Tbot directors use their priveleges to flame or discriminate against OTHERs, via Tbot.  And that's why I think discussions about Tbot should be public and not private...

--
don

PS -- thanks JonJon, for revealing the secret.  I don't know why it IS a secret that there are TourneyBot communications about me I'm not privy to, I'm just surprised that anyone has bothered to deny it, and amazed that decisions have been made about me with no feedback from me.  I suppose it's just a habit of mine, learned from the bottle of a a land that has free speach as a basic right, to resent thought police.  In my country, we get to face our accusers.

[socksey]

This is kinda funny when my "Last login: Friday, June 18 21:41 PDT from oneworld.owt.com", is over a day late and it's obvious Port is just making Tbot leave me these messages out of spite. (Just one example, BTW.) Or else Port is once again unaware of how to use an interface: First his GUI (and that caused a lot of problems); now TourneyBot.

When a TD bans you from a tourney, tourneybot will leave you a message, so it's not Port making the tourneybot leave you the message, it's just the way it's programmed.  Duh, a bot only does what it's programmed to do, don.  If Port is uncomfortable having you in his tourneys, it's his priviledge to ban you from them.

PS -- thanks JonJon, for revealing the secret. I don't know why it IS a secret that there are TourneyBot communications about me I'm not privy to, I'm just surprised that anyone has bothered to deny it,

You are so full of it, don.  No one has kept any secret from you.  We do have a private TD forum where we discuss all kinds of things.  You have been the topic of a lot of discussion because you have made yourself a topic.  You haven't been kept from anything.  Nothing has been said there that hasn't been said to you directly, I can assure you.  

I'm so sick of this discussion I could throw up.  Excuse me while I run to the toilet!

socksey




"Talk low, talk slow, and don't talk too much." - John Wayne

[PortWine]

Should we allow TD to hold turnements when they are drunk ?

Let's restart on topic. :2drunk:

[diane]

i soo wasnt going to reply to this - but here goes...

I dont think anyone has denied there is a TD only forum - and we have it because jonjon started asking for one - way back on Feb 10th - when - as far as i was concerned there were no problems!!

I ran a tournament tonight, and I had a bunch of people not start their matches and then tell me that their opponent was not responding...trying to bullshit me...

What they didn't realize is that you can't bullshit a bullshitter...

And I got all the matches started after some calling out of the bullshit in question.

The tourney mods need a private forum, where only we can read and post, where we can discuss who is doing what and who needs to be a banned and why....

We should make it democratic and fair....

I am sick of the not a nice persons though who think the can manipulate the rules however....there should be consequences for those who cause trouble and tell lies to the mods....

So a locked fourm that only tourneymods can go into would be a great idea..

What do you guys think?

JonJon

So he got his wish - since we supported him - as seemed fair at the time.

Don you have communicated with me all by every possible avenue - i will agree with that - but i have lost patience at times - since you cut the conversation when i didnt say what you want me to - and then pester me when it is inconvenient.  So i bounce your emails and gag you if im busy (though you are not generally gagged).  I will chat with you about anything - as long as im not playing - but i will tell you what i have told you over and over again - and you dont seem to like it - so what is the point?  You dont agree with me - and i dont agree with you - that is ok you know.....we dont all have to agree all the time.  And as yet - I still dont dislike you, despite the fact that you like to take every and all opportunities to tell me i am stupid and a drunk (fortunatley my superiority complex kicks in at that point - and i regard anyone who calls me stupid - as incapable of understanding me   ) and a drunk - hell yeah!!!  You have some good stuff to stay - and you remain ungagged - but this chasing your tail is just plain dull now, there is a private forum, it will stay so and the TD's will continue to do what they can to make tourneys fun and fair for all entrants - which means doing their best to restrict unecessary kibitzing, time wasting, dropping etc.. WE KNOW WE CANNOT ENFORCE THESE THINGS - but we can do our best.

Now - i have made my point by yet another medium - since telling, shouting, emailing etc seem not have made an impression - and i will refrain from discussing this anymore - please lets move along!

[diane]

Sorry Port - you posted while i was rambling - so yes back to the subject - anyone else care to comment on.....

Should we allow TD to hold turnements when they are drunk?

Maybe a poll is required - moderators if you please .....

(if the answer is no - it will cut the number of mine in half i think    )

[don]

socks, diane, you make my point for me.  I didn't really need JonJon.  I already knew from the feeds from PortWine to Biggles that there was a forum where you all talk behind peoples' backs.  It's just nice to have it confirmed, finally.

The fact is, tonight Kari asked me to cool it with Port, and I agreed.  I then asked diane if I could repectfullly ask her a question, and was insulted for my efforts.  I respect Kari, so I won't start up anything against PortWine, but I have to ask, once again, if it is possible for anyone to read and respond to an apparantly private and secret source of flames, or do we have to wait for TourneyBot directors to feed them to some of the worst flamers of FIBS?

I have said from the start that I am willing to confine my comments to a restricted community.  Now I request access to what a few people in that community have been saying about me, on two boards here, and hundreds of shouts.

I am generally polite on FIBs, and usually respond to flames on a ratio of 10 flames from fools, one response from me.  I'd like to see the flames from a couple of TBot directors that are the basis of the noisiest ones in public.  May I have access to the private Tbot boards just to see what's been said, or are the flames too private?

It's not my problem if there are two secret boards, and it's not my problem if there are comments there that are made by people who don't want them public.  I do feel sorry for people who whisper things among themselves that they are afraid to say in public, but as I said previously, I'm an American.  I laugh at people who can't keep their whispers to themselves and feed them to others to shout on FIBS.

--
don

[diane]

Yawn, there was no insult - i just refused to have private conversations with you - as i told you last time we spoke.  Feel free to ask me anything - as long it is a public forum.  And it was all in shouts folks - so no need for copying and pasting  

The 'flames' as you refer to them - are largely transcripts of conversations held with you (yes - there have been THAT many) - not put out in public - because we prefer to try to maintain some of your dignity. We are aware that there are some who would take what was said - in conversations with you - and use it - so the aim was to protect you.  Sorry it isnt working out that way.  But that is not our fault.

You would not converse with me in public - and i think you know why, it is the same as the reason we do not make public your conversations.  I am just done with those now.

[Kari_Grandi]

The fact is, tonight Kari asked me to cool it with Port, and I agreed. I then asked diane if I could repectfullly ask her a question, and was insulted for my efforts. I respect Kari, so I won't start up anything against PortWine, but I have to ask, once again

Yes Don, we chatted with a good manner and decided that we end this thema here. You respect me an I respect you and I believe, that we've seen the end of this thema now.
Lets forget this and enjoy backgammon.

Kari

[adrian]

thx god , hope it IS the end.