FIBS is taking a day off

[Patti]

This is the current logon message:

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|                                                                    |
|  FIBS news/announcements at http://twitter.com/fibsdotcom          |
|                                                                    |
|  FIBS will be offline from Wednesday, August 24 noon PDT           |
|  to Thursday August 25 noon PDT.                                   |
|                                                                    |
|  I want one day where I am not providing a forum for people        |
|  to be rude and obnoxious to each other.  I want one day           |
|  where there are no droppers, no dumpers, no people complaining    |
|  about the dice, and nobody accusing the bots of cheating.  I      |
|  want one day where I am not hosting incessant interpersonal       |
|  abuse and bickering.                                              |
|                                                                    |
|  I will not be answering FIBS-related email during this time,      |
|  nor otherwise dealing with FISB in any way.                       |
|                                                                    |
|  Please take this time to think about how you use FIBS, and        |
|  its importance in your life.                                      |
|                                                                    |
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If you miss FIBS while it's down, and you really want to log in, then think about that for a while.  Think about how much you enjoy FIBS, and how sad you'd be if it went away for good.

If you're wondering if this is because of something you've done, and your conscience is even a little bit guilty, then it is.  If you've ever abused someone on FIBS, it's your fault.  If you've ever dumped matches, it's your fault.  If you have multiple accounts, you're to blame.  If you've deliberately dropped on someone, or even not resumed a match when you had the opportunity to, you're guilty.  If you're constantly bickering with someone on FIBS, you caused this.  

[diane]

Enjoy the day, and lets hope it has the desired effect.  Like banging your head against a brick wall, the pleasure in just 'stopping doing it' is immense...

[dorbel]

It seems to me that there are two problem areas here. Those related to play issues, cheating basically and those related to shouts.
99% of regular fibsters don't drop, dump or abuse multiple nicks. I can't speak for phone users, but most of us would happily lose them anyway. It's a great pity that Patti has to spend any time at all dealing with this, but while Fibs is a free server, there will always be a bit of it. Share the load Patti. I am sure that one or two reputable regulars would be happy to help with a bit of admin. I would, as long as it doesn't require programming skills.
I would estimate that less than 1% of fibsters ever shout at all and and of those the very great majority are not offenders, but shouts is still a problem area for Patti. I see three solutions. The first is to ban a few more problem shouters. The removal of those that we have already lost has immensely improved shouts and discouraged the worst abuse from those who remain. The second is to shut down shouts altogether. I expect that tourneybot can be adapted to message or tell everybody for tourneys or even be the only allowed user. I would willingly give up the pleasure that I get from using shouts to retain fibs.
The third is to allow a bit of load sharing. There are plenty of fibsters with good judgment who never abuse shouts, so use two or three of them to operate monitor, warning and then removing those out of order.
It's great that you provide Fibs Patti and if you pull the plug one day, who could blame you? Perhaps if you get in a little help around the place it will seem less of a chore and more of a pleasure.

[jackdaddy]

There are plenty of fibsters with good judgment who never abuse shouts, so use two or three of them to operate monitor, warning and then removing those out of order.

And don't forget to create a committee to decide what consists of being out of order...

[jackdaddy]

99% of regular fibsters don't drop, dump or abuse multiple nicks.

I think Patti said, "have" multiple accounts, not "abuse".

[dorbel]

I know you don't mean that seriously, nor is it a good idea. If we have a monitor, it would be a personal judgment, just as it is when Patti does it. It would however mean that when someone is in the grey area, they get a monitor warning and if they want to go on with it, they get gagged. It's just an idea that might deter people, can't do any harm and might do some good.
Patti did say "have mutiple accounts", but she has always made it clear that she was not concerned with that if not abused, hence I interpreted it as meaning abused.
No, before you ask, I don't think that I would be a good candidate for monitor.

[jackdaddy]

Of course I wasn't serious. The implication I thought was obvious though. What is proper to some, is abuse to others. What some see as witty sarcasm, others see as an attack.

[garp_02]

If you're wondering if this is because of something you've done, and your conscience is even a little bit guilty, then it is.  If you've ever abused someone on FIBS, it's your fault.  If you've ever dumped matches, it's your fault.  If you have multiple accounts, you're to blame.  If you've deliberately dropped on someone, or even not resumed a match when you had the opportunity to, you're guilty.  If you're constantly bickering with someone on FIBS, you caused this.  

I would say that one or other of those points applies to, if not everyone on Fibs, then 99%.

Just as an example, let's look at Dorbel, who puts himself forward as a 'reputable regular' - guilty of at least two of Patti's 'crimes'. This is not an attempt to score cheap points or 'bicker', but merely an indication that Patti can't trust anyone else on Fibs to share the load, beacuse we are all guilty to some extent. It could be reasonably argued that Patti herself has been guilty.

Those who think they are not involved, or adopt a smugger-than-thou attitude, really should have a look inwards.

[Patti]

I did not say "If you've abused multiple accounts..."  I said "If you have multiple accounts..."

Having multiple accounts is a flagrant violation of the rules of FIBS.  I've looked the other way, but if you have multiple accounts and you haven't first gotten permission from me then yes, you're part of the problem.

The social problems on FIBS tend to be clique infighting to a large extent.  I can't think of anyone on FIBS who I would trust to deal with that particular nightmare. 

[dorbel]

This is not an attempt to score cheap points or 'bicker'

Actually, it is.

I would say that one or other of those points applies to, if not everyone on Fibs, then 99%.

I don't think that 99% of fibsters are guilty of anything at all. The overwhelming majority, never shout, play nice, finish their matches and are model citizens. Many of those who do shout never shout anything offensive from one year's end to the next.
In the end, it isn't what any of us think that matters. It's what Patti thinks that counts and anybody who has a problem with that can go and play somewhere else. If multiple nicks is a problem, by all means clean them out. If what some people shout is a problem, ban another dozen or so for life if that is what it takes.

Let's discuss the problems and try and find ways to deal with them, ideally without the personal digs. The "I can't discuss the problem rationally, but I can jeer at you" attitude is one of the things that stinks out shouts. Let's not do it here as well.

[garp_02]

Actually, it is.

Actually it's not - I think I should know better than you what my intention was 

[dorbel]

Your intention in naming me as somebody who is, in your opinion, guilty of some of Patti's crimes is obviously personal. It's somewhat disingenuous to pretend that it isn't! I note that you haven't withdrawn it or apologised, something that you would surely have done if your intention wasn't to "score cheap points or bicker".

[garp_02]

I have already told you what my intentions were dorbel. Obviously you know better and I think that my origional intention has been vindicated by your responses. Patti can trust no-one because of the clique-mentality which is ingrained in even the most reputable members.

I note you haven't apologised for, or even admitted to, any of the 'crimes' of which you are guilty. This is not 'my opinion' but fact.

My intention, yet again, my friend, was to try to expose hypocricy and show that Patti can'y trust those entrenched in the clique-mentality.

Let's forget the petty squabbling and try to remember that it's not all about you.

[Patti]

Wow.  It took HOW MANY messages before you guys started bickering?  Thank you for illustrating one of the problems so perfectly.

[garp_02]

Ty Patti - my work here is done.

[NIHILIST]

I laughed so goddam hard I had Pepsi shooting out of my nose.

All this time I thought that when Vic and I were shout-banned that FIBS would become the Utopia longed for by others. Now it turns out that not only hasn't the abuse diminished, but Patti has to do something she never had to do in my and Vic's worst moments............SHE HAS TO SHUT FIBS DOWN FOR A DAY !

I have only four words to say about this tragic series of events................ BWA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Bob

depersonalised by Diane, have a nice day.

[sorrytigger]

Maybe you want to try tigergammon.dyndns-home.com port 4321 during that day.

Don't forget, if you never played on that server, you first need to register. It is done the same way as on fibs. Use the adequate features of your client.

The server is a clone of fibs. It has some minor flaws. The beta will be released in fall some time.

The website (tigergammon.com) is in German only, but I plan on releasing an English version, soon.

Have fun

Andreas

[sorrytigger]

Check out tigergammon.com.

English version is available now.

There are issues, of course. Biggest problem is: JavaFIBS doesn't register properly. I am working on that.

[moonshadow]

I was rather surprised at patti's apparent level of exasperation. I had thought the overall tenor of FIBs shouts had greatly improved and was much more friendly than in the past.

For those that actually like to play backgammon, its really one of the best servers to play at.

[garp_02]

Me too, to be honest. Then again, I rarely shout and rarely even have the shout window open when on Fibs, so wouldn't really know.

BTW Moon - I think we play in Fibstyten tourney if you would care to e-mail me regarding setting up a 'date'.

No hijack intended

[diane]

I had thought the overall tenor of FIBs shouts had greatly improved and was much more friendly than in the past.

Me too..but that might dependent on time of day you visit and I think there is a lot more going on behind the scenes - emails and tells etc.

[garp_02]

May I take this opportunity to applaud Patti for the stance she has taken.

She has tried everything else - banning people from shouts, from Fibs etc etc and still it goes on.

Let me offer a little comparison and let you draw your own conclusions.

Three years back, my wife and I decided to join a lawn bowls club - I know quite sad but hey. I was a bit sceptical to begin with but soon found that I was drawn into the tactics and skill involved in the game.

The comparisons I would like to draw on are based on the points Patti raised in her initial post on this thread and my intention is to show both the similarities and differences between real life organistations and internet organisations.

In my bowls club, there are little cliques where people talk about how they would do things differently from those on the committee, how some members don't support the club as much as they etc etc.

What they don't do, referring back to Patti's original post is:

a) Walk off the green halfway through a game and refuse to  finish it.

b)Turn up in a  mask and pretend to be someone else. Even sometimes taking the mask off after each shot to play themselves.

c) No-one, myself included, ever has walked up to another member and called them a f***ing b****ard or w***ker etc etc

I'm sure everyone can relate this to some organisation they are involved with, or indeed, life in general.

So where does the problem lie? Is it because people sitting in the comfort and safety of their homes, communicating only over the internet, feel more empowered by being able to abuse, drop etc etc? I think so.

What can be done about it is another matter and it is more  than just a problem for Fibs,; it is a global and increasing problem.

[DavidK]

That way I see it, the issues leading to Patti's dummy-spit could/should have been rectified long long ago.

FIBS seems to be run as an ego-trip by a small clique.

This in no way diminishes the respect and gratitude due to those who devote their time and energy supporting FIBS.
========================================================================

It's just that if people hold something close to their chest, run it their way (or the highway), don't allow the wider
community to contribute, etc - who is to blame when their policies plainly have not led to good results?

There are many obvious things that could be done to eliminate anti-social behaviour.
FIBS has been moribund for many many years. Some slight movement recently but not nearly enough.

AGAIN - for those who shoot the messenger - this in no way diminishes the respect and gratitude due to those
who devote their time and energy supporting FIBS. Thank you Patti.

[dickbalaska]

@DavidK: "...time and energy supporting FIBS."  And money, you forgot money.  It costs >$0 to host a server of any kind.

@garp_02: You should play at our (Town of Guilford CT USA) lawn bowl courts.  They overlook the harbor; beautiful. (and so does one Little League field).  In Prague last month, I watched a Bocci tournament with some world class players, it was truly amazing.

I usually don't watch the shouts.  They have been better lately (the past year or so) but do occasionally veer off.  I'm here to just play.  One of the first config options I added to my client was "Ignore shouts".

I am guilty of having multiple accounts and I apologize for that.  I used to be dickbalaska.  I created BuckoFIBSa to test my client and it seems I am now stuck with it, as I try to get to 10K experience with it.  Once in a blue moon I will launch dickbalaska on JavaFIBS and start a 13 point match against myself; like if I can't work out some protocol issue (undocumented messages, there are many).  I never finish that match, which I would consider cheating, and let it roll off.  Mostly though I do my testing on my own jIBS server.  I actually did a lot of work on jIBS because I felt too guilty running the two accounts on FIBS.

I will add my thanks to Patti too, but that is not what she is looking for.  I believe she is looking for civility in the lawless Old West of the Anonymous Internet. (Hey, did you ever notice that the Padgammon users are a polite bunch )

[Broncowolf]

Wow!  I tried to log in last night for a little backgammon and found I couldn't!  I almost never have peeked into the 'shout' area and I bet I'm with the majority of FIBS users in that respect so I don't really know what's going on with that but it sounds like it's a pain so maybe I'll continue to keep away.  My only dealing with Patti has been stellar and she's tops in my books.  I only have one account and not sure why you'd want others.  I win some, lose some and I finish all my games unless someone else drops out on me.  They are GAMES.  It's fun, win or lose!   Can't wait for FIBS to come back today! 

I do look at Repbot and try to keep away from some of the people that don't have good reps and also people that look like they drop a lot, as I'm sure most of you do.  I'm glad it's set up so you can check!  I also make notes on the complainers that make little snide comments all the time if you make a good roll and whine and complain throughout the game.  I just don't play them again.  Who needs it?  But the vast majority of the FIBS group are great fun and you don't really have to worry much about finding a good fun match.

Keep up the good work!  This group of people are the best and a lot of fun.

[MichaelP7]

I just couldn't login to FIBS today and I thought I was giving it a wrong password. Since I couldn't find where i was wrong, I tried to create a fresh new account. Am I now guilty for having multiple accounts or do I get some discount for just "attempting to do so" like we say "attempted murder"

I would suggest Patti to take not only one day off but perhaps a few weeks off from FIBS. Then everything will be just fine

[garp_02]

The problem with owning the site and making statements is that if you don't honour those statements, you look silly and unprofessional and, to be honest, as bad as all the muppets who shout abuse at each other.

No offence intended