new category and board on fibsboard

[stog]

hi i have added a new category on fibsboard for the tigergammon server with this board in it for feedback and discussion
regards

[diane]

Could a similar one be set up for melbg server too?

server.melbg.net, also port 4321

This one is further along and considerably more functional at this point than tigergammon.

[socksey]

Whose site is melbg?  I think I noticed that server in my fibzilla login place?  I haven't actually been there yet, tho. 

The tigergammon site is coming along.  We have more and more members every day.  Still more work required. 

socksey



"Better to have a big goal and reach half of it than to have no goal and reach all of it." - unknown

[stog]

ok have done -- changed category to Other Fibslike free Backgammon Servers for 'fibs like free servers', whose model i presume they are using? and have included 2 new forum boards; one for the melbg and the other for Tiggergammon. let me know if there are any others to add.

cheers

ps for info on these new servers go to http://tigergammon.dyndns-home.com/gb-tigergammon.html

and http://www.melbg.net/server.htm respectively

[socksey]

For the moment, tigergammon seems to be regressing rather than progressing.   

The bots can only be played in 1 ptrs and at that, they kick you off the server several times requiring you to reconnect several times during a 1 pt match.   

No progress seems to have been made in several weeks.  Almost none of the players who started out there are still participating.  When there is no participation, there is a dead site and no reason to go there.

I hope andreas can inform us of any progress here, so that we may know what is happening there.   

Sadly, at the beginning of our drive, there was much opposition and a few who were trying to sabotage the effort.  I would hope that element are happy now and will leave it alone.  I can't imagine why it would make any difference to those people whether the site succeeds of fails, but who know what lurks in some minds?   

socksey



I set my sights high and with determination.  If you believe in yourself, you need only reinforce all your dreams. - Les Paul

[moonshadow]

On tigergammon I was 20 pips ahead in a race for the win in a 5 point match when the damn bot refused to move when I had one pip left.  Actually, it waited until I had only one pip left then stopped moving. It would resume, but not move. That's the only match I tried to play there.

It seems to have a number of bugs, but as the "shout" function seems to work quite well it will probably have a certain appeal to some.

Sadly, at the beginning of our drive, there was much opposition and a few who were trying to sabotage the effort.  I would hope that element are happy now and will leave it alone.  I can't imagine why it would make any difference to those people whether the site succeeds of fails, but who know what lurks in some minds?   

What is "our drive" and what is it? This really needs some clarification.

Unless socksey can produce some evidence of this supposed opposition I suggest it might be all balderdash.

What's funny about this is that socksey says people were trying to "sabotage" the effort. Why would anyone want to sabotage tigergammon when tigergammon doesn't seem to need any help in sabotaging itself?

[diane]

It was the 'opposition' part I didn't get, as far as I could tell, most were really hoping they would go for good...

Sadly, where there is a community, and internet, someone will try sabotage - FIBs has seen plenty across the years. Often by those who call themselves regulars, and usually when they feel a decision didn't go their way..

[socksey]

There were some saboteurs at the beginning.  Do you really think I would lie about this, moonshadow, and for what possible purpose?    

I don't intend to bash anyone here on fibsboard.  I was speaking in generalities and I don't feel the need to prove anything with "evidence" for your enjoyment.  Had you been there, you would have seen the evidence. 

Yes, you're right about tigergammon sabotaging itself, but that wasn't so evident in the beginning, hence sabateurs emerge. I am still hopeful the bugs will be ironed out eventually. 

We were hoping for an uncensored backgammon site where people can say what they want without having to fear being banned forever from shouts which I know you and many others are opposed to.  But, of course you knew that.  You just like to yank my chain a bit, eh, moonshadow?   

socksey




"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." ~ Proverb

[moonshadow]

There were some saboteurs at the beginning.
Do you really think I would lie about this, moonshadow, and for what possible purpose?    

I recall occasions when you have been "mistaken" and perhaps this was another instance of something innocent that you took to be "sabotage." You are not the server admin and you apparently don't have any connection with him, so how are you even qualified to say "this is sabotage" when you are not privy to what is going on from the admin side of things?

I would take your claim that there was "sabotage" more seriously if you give an example of what this sabotage was instead of refusing to do that, or even if you had said the tigergammon admin had stated attacks had been made on his program/server.

I have no idea if you are lying or not, but often when a politician or government official loudly challenges you with "Do you really think I would lie about this?!" that is in fact what they are doing.

Several months ago I happened to see your FIBshouts while playing a match. You were shouting a list of some fibsters that supposedly "hated" you. "Username A hates me. Username B hates me," then, shockingly for me, "moonshadow hates me".

I was stunned. Shocked. I seldom shout so why were you even dragging poor username moonshadow into your list of "these people hate me". I don't "hate" you (but neither do I "love" you) and there was no rational reason for you to shout that unless you were looking for sympathy from other shouters about how all these people supposedly "hate" you and how badly they have treated you.

Perhaps I should have screamed in shouts at the time, "SOCKSEY IS A LIAR" (and added some profane vulgarities for emphasis--after all you want "uncensored" shouts don't you?) but at the time I actually thought it was quite amusing.

So yes, if you were mistaken about me "hating" you then you are very likely to be mistaken about tigergammon being "sabotaged."

I don't intend to bash anyone here on fibsboard. I was speaking in generalities and I don't feel the need to prove anything with "evidence" for your enjoyment.  Had you been there, you would have seen the evidence.  

Yes, I actually do get a great deal of enjoyment from your posts, as I do pck's and others. (stog needs to spice his up a bit though.)

Yes, you're right about tigergammon sabotaging itself, but that wasn't so evident in the beginning, hence sabateurs emerge. I am still hopeful the bugs will be ironed out eventually.

I noticed "bugs" in the beginning, but no saboteurs.

 

We were hoping for an uncensored backgammon site where people can say what they want without having to fear being banned forever from shouts which I know you and many others are opposed to.

You want an "uncensored" backgammon site yet as a fibsboard moderator you censor and eliminate posts on fibs board! Please explain!

I think only a handful of fibsters out of thousands have been permanently shout banned. And Patti gave thousands of chances and explanations to those that were banned so there's really no excuse. Persian Lord is the only banned fibster to state--here on fibs board--that he deserved what he got and that Patti was justified in what she did. I greatly admired that.

People don't "fear" being permanently being shout banned on FIBS. That's nonsense and you know it.

You and the others who want an uncensored backgammon site don't really want a site to socialize and play backgammon, you want a site where shout abusers have an audience that includes unwilling participants.

Without an audience, most shout abuse would stop.

You will not find two shout abusers in a locked room trying to insult and humiliate each other. Why? Its no fun for them because they want spectators, they want a snake pit, and if no one is watching, they are not going to be shouting.

You just like to yank my chain a bit, eh, moonshadow?  

socksey

Well I really would like to know the nature of the "sabotage" and surely you can disclose the nature of it without naming names.

And yes, you always leave such a long chain hanging out there I can't resist pulling.

I just hope nothing gets unravelled in the process.

[socksey]

My information comes straight from the horses mouth.  Like I said, had you been there, you would know, too.  Andreas spoke of it in shouts on tigergammon site.  I choose not to mention details here.   

socksey



"The capacity for delight is the gift of paying attention." - Julia Margaret Cameron

[socksey]

I'm speechless.  You may quote me on this.

socksey



"Growth is a spiral process, doubling back on itself, reassessing and regrouping." - Julia Margaret Cameron

[dorbel]

As the main reason for Tigergammon appeared to be to provide a home for the Fibsters denied shout access on Fibs and their sympathisers, why don't they open both sites, shout on tigergammon and play on fibs?
The answer is probably that the type of shouts for which they received their bans has no point if the intended victims can't see them.

[vegasvic]

Main reason for Tigergammon  IS and WAS and WILL be Andreas wanting a backgammon site !

As to how he RUNS Tigergammon is up to him ALONE!

Do you all  really think he likes me to be able to shout so badly, that he puts in Hundreds of man hours to program a backgammon site?

NOW THAT IS A LAUGHER

Look folks you got your playground (FIBS) with your school mom looking out for you when the bullies poke a finger in your face after you stick your tongue out at them.

Get a life move on no one is begging for you to come and play on Tigergammon... i am sure it will catch on after people see its a fun place to play .

[sorrytigger]

As the main reason for Tigergammon appeared to be to provide a home for the Fibsters denied shout access on Fibs and their sympathisers, why don't they open both sites, shout on tigergammon and play on fibs?
The answer is probably that the type of shouts for which they received their bans has no point if the intended victims can't see them.

When I read this here I realize, that you very obviously don't know of the concept of 'gag' and 'blind'. And not only you but very obviously also the 'victims'. And now my vision blurs and I can't distinguish victims and culprits any more.

Seriously - I have been attending to a 'shout war' at tigergammon and now I am pretty sure that anyone shouldn't be quick with labelling 'victims' and 'culprits'. If people use 'blind' and 'gag' with prudence things will stay an acceptable level. If they don't they simply want to fuel the whole thing.

[garp_02]

TG can keep the people who seem to be congregating around it.

I feel sorry for Andreas, who has set up an alternative site but has attracted the (let's say) less welcome members.

[diane]

Seriously - I have been attending to a 'shout war' at tigergammon and now I am pretty sure that anyone shouldn't be quick with labelling 'victims' and 'culprits'.

I cant help but have a small, quiet wonder to myself who was in it..and no - there are no cuplrits and victims...I shall wait to see how you feel after 20 years of that,...when all your hard work is trivialised to the point people merely use it to call other people names.

You might find you have to introduce some global shout bans, and impose other such restrictions on freedom of speech.

Tigergammon did not so much attract the less savoury fibsters, who love a good bullying session and some ripe old English banter...as it was made for them - to allow them the freedoms they lost. And yes, Andreas may have built it because he wanted it...but he was encouraged by the fact he knew it would be used - and who by.


Absolutely every one who has been on the wrong end of folks in this thread do know gag and blind..and that it is futile - as long as there is some audience, it will go on and on and on and on and on....clearly you know about gag and blind - but not what it actually does.

I shall once again wish you good luck with your site - and hope your hard work pays off...

[vegasvic]

Can i ask why you two really care ?

Is tigergammon some sort of threat to your roost on fibs ?

Like we said you are most welcome to join us in some good old fashioned banter my dear .

But be fair warned there is no mother hen on Tigergammon .

Nor anyone handing out yellow and red flags.

Happy holidays and best wishes to you and yours .

[KissMyAss]

Just chillin.


   

[diane]

Looks like we found one of the participants..I wonder if any others will wander by and make themselves known..

[vegasvic]

Oh yes dear ,

It is moi

Now do not tell my you did not know this ?

I am the only Tigergammon player that has lost his or her shouts .

[Johnny_Boy]

I am reading this thread and wondering if it is just a few people that have personal grudges.... I find Tigergammon to be another site to have fun on... everyone there is enjoying it and the lack of timeouts and structure to the point of absurdity. Fibs could very well become the "alternative site"

[vegasvic]

Hear Hear JB ... i could not have put it in better words .

Welcome to the unsavory group now you are an official member in good standing .

Can we get a comment please from the upright fibsters out there.

[vegasvic]

Thank you Tanika for the ART and thank you Vic for the gammon board

[garp_02]

I wish all at Tigergammon the best.

I'm not quite sure why you are posting on Fibsboard though. I know it's not officially connected to Fibs but is supposed to be Fibs-related.

[moonshadow]

But be fair warned there is no mother hen on Tigergammon .

Nor anyone handing out yellow and red flags.

Happy holidays and best wishes to you and yours .

I am the only Tigergammon player that has lost his or her shouts .

I'm very confused. Does this mean vic gagged himself?

[vegasvic]

Garp you should ask stog about this .
I think it was his idea to have a Tigergammon link.

You really need to take it easy on that heart of yours and stay out of this link maybe ?

just sayin

Now as for the Bible Thumper what took you so long ?

yes i am the only shout banned fibster playing on Tigergammon ... is that a surprise you ?

[garp_02]

OK Victor, for once I'll take your advice.

Stog, why do we have a link to another backgammon site?

P.S. Nice of you to bring up my heart condition Vic - I have given you the respect of not mentioning your mental problems and I expect the same in return. But hey - I wouldn't expect anything else from you.

[vegasvic]

Lets see how long it will last !!

[zbilbo]

I am reading this thread and wondering if it is just a few people that have personal grudges.... I find Tigergammon to be another site to have fun on... everyone there is enjoying it and the lack of timeouts and structure to the point of absurdity. Fibs could very well become the "alternative site"

I quite agree on all points!

Tiga is as far as I have tried to well functioning, even though it is in beta. Its VERY fast, the bots are fast, and to my knowledge no drag if more people log in or any limit on that part. It should be real life tested of course with more people, doing all sorts of traffic to the server and then one might put up some judgement on that part, but still.

I am my self a software developer and have done some minor software developing towards fibs-related issues, and I know its a lot of stuff to take care of, so very much cudos to Andreas for what he has managed so far. its quite impressive actually!

[moonshadow]

Now as for the Bible Thumper what took you so long ?

yes i am the only shout banned fibster playing on Tigergammon ... is that a surprise you ?

You previously said," I am the only Tigergammon player that has lost his or her shouts ," which is ambiguous and confusing.  In light of the conversation in the thread and what you said, I took it to mean you had either been shout banned at tigergammon or perhaps voluntarily gagged yourself by attempting to fellate a stogie. Thanks for the clarification.

[vegasvic]

I ask why do you really care ?

[moonshadow]

There is a glitch with all the tigergammon robots.

If you play a robot and are losing, you can just drop the match and re-invite the robot to start a new match.

Rating boosters are hard at work repeatedly dropping matches against bots until they finally win one.

[diane]

 

that must be so good for them - they obviously really miss that at Fibs..

[vegasvic]

I'ts a glitch we all know about ... and Andreas is working on it .........

Once all the glitches are out and we are bug free he will set everyone back to 1500 or better yet maybe their last FIBS rating .

Keep the constructive comments coming . 

And merry Christmas to you all at fibs from tigergammon !!
From my house to the gutter where it seems you guys want to reside in .
You can talk all the trash you want its not going to change Andreas effort to have an alternate site.  

[zbilbo]

There is a glitch with all the tigergammon robots.

If you play a robot and are losing, you can just drop the match and re-invite the robot to start a new match.

Rating boosters are hard at work repeatedly dropping matches against bots until they finally win one.

that must be so good for them - they obviously really miss that at Fibs..

As the server is not in full run yet, it doesn't matter. As to my understanding all ratings will be nullified at release. sorrytigger may or may not confirm this if he wants.

As to why one would care so much as to actually go there and watch what is happening,  and report an already reported bug, or even worse, care to cheer on when not planning to join at all ...

Tip moonshadow:
on tigga just 'shout TODO and some bug report'

and sorrytigger wil log it and pick it up later on.

thx for helping out debugging btw.

[vegasvic]

I am trying to think WHY do you BOTH care about what happens on this forum or on tigergammon ?

We see your blind judgmental attitude . MOVE ON . there is gridgammon and FIBS.

[dorbel]

What does a rating matter on any server? By carefully selection of opponents (bots who will start a new match after being dropped are ideal in this respect of course) and careful selection of match length, a rating can be whatever you want it to be within reason. Never quite seen the point of chasing a number myself, but to each his own.
There is no relationship between separate systems, so transferring ratings from one server to another has no logic, particularly in the case of rating hunters of course. The purest list is probably Fibsleagammon, no short matches, no choosing of opponents, no droppers and no bots. Even then of course it only serves to order the players in the list. The actual numbers are irelevant.
I wish tigergammon every success, as we all do I am sure. It does though bear an uncanny resemblance to that early SF staple, the small crew who flee Earth and its despotic rulers for Alpha Centauri (other planetary systems are available) with a spaceship full of robots. Mayhem and hilarity ensue.

[vegasvic]

i think you  will see most of the players that now play on tigergammon to help andreas find all the bugs .

Also play on FIBS and GRID and Fibsleague .

To my view its the four of you that seem to be commenting on Tigergammon , where you have ZERO interest .

I say again MOVE on children its a wide open internet out there and may you find a peaceful playground.

You wish tigergammon success but cant help TRASH the idea . Is it some sort of a threat to you guys if another site is successful ?

[zbilbo]

i think you  will see most of the players that now play on tigergammon to help andreas find all the bugs .

At this time I think this is the main issue here, and as such other are more than welcome to test it out in every wicked way they want. Cheat, or not, any stuff done to this server at the moment as a player, I would guess are more than welcome.

As I have mentioned earlier, I think its quite stable and very well playable, though it has some minor quirks still (mostly the bots are somewhat unstable from time to time). Most are known, but the more people using it and testing it the better.

I have not yet encountered any show stopping bugs, and I will again stress the amount of work done in creating this server, and thank sorrytigger.

[MISS_IRAN]

well
I've been playing on tiger like 10 months ago, I remember I couldn't finish my matches with Bots so I left   , but tonight i played 4-5 1pointers there and I had no problem. Seems that the Server is working better

[vegasvic]

Kat please lift your panties .
So nice to have you come for a visit .

[vegasvic]

Happy New Year to all you FIBSTERS from TigerGammon ...

[Tanika]

ROFLMAO...what else can one do?

[vegasvic]

Well one can visit time to time and say hello .. or play a few games to help iron out the kinks on the site )

And have a glass of Cheval Blanc , tigergammon players drink better wine )

PS Zorba eat your heart out

[vegasvic]

Andreas , how about a FIBS vs Tigergmmon tourney ?

[sorrytigger]

Thanks, socksey, Tanika, zbilbo, and vic for your testimony and support!

Andreas , how about a FIBS vs Tigergmmon tourney ?

I would very much welcome a tourney on TigerGammon. All the more if I could join in myself and participate in it.

Now! What could a FIBS vs TigerGammon tourney be? Who would be FIBS? Diane? moonshadow? garp? dorbel? patti?

But of course - come on you guys, let's go, let's play a tournament on TigerGammon.

Andreas

[diane]

Now! What could a FIBS vs TigerGammon tourney be? Who would be FIBS? Diane? moonshadow? garp? dorbel? patti?

But of course - come on you guys, let's go, let's play a tournament on TigerGammon.

Andreas

Whilst I appreciate that you finally did the unimaginable and 'stopped whining and built your own fibs', and I am enormously impressed with that, please accept it is not a place I would want to go to, ever. The reasons for that are abundantly clear in this thread and many others.

So thank you for your kind offer, but I shall leave it for the people you have built it for to have 'fun'..and stay away myself.

[dorbel]

Thanks, socksey, Tanika, zbilbo, and vic for your testimony and support!

I have also supported tigergammon and wished it well, indeed I have an account there myself. However, can't see how a challenge match between teams from the two servers would do anything other than stir acrimony and discord. Logging in to any bg server should be for bg and that alone.

[vegasvic]

You are so right Paul, i think andreas was kidding since people have drawn lines.
It should always be about backgammon and FUN ...

Build your own FIBS ? Sorry Tigergammon has no cellphone users or time outs .

[vegasvic]

I am going to seriously suggest to take a CHILL pill and MOVE on !!

I really have no idea why me posting on tigergammon thread bothers anyone .

I post on the thread to get people interested and come and try the site out .

NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO PLAY ON THE SITE !!

[vegasvic]

How could i forget this wonderful bottle .... Zorba are you here ?

[socksey]

I see nothing wrong with a bit of healthy competition between teams.  Does it matter where the teams originate from?  There is competition between people from all over the world at some backgammon events in Las Vegas and other places.  Could we not hold a tourney between two servers?    

The only problem I can see is someone trying to decide whether to play for Fibs or for Tigergammon, and since it is meant to be a friendly competition, why should it matter.  It's just another tourney.   

socksey



Hearts will never be practical until they are made unbreakable. ~ L. Frank Baum

[garp_02]

Since I was mentioned somewhere, count me out

[vegasvic]

FOLKS please CHILL out i was JOKING about a FIBS vs TIGERGAMMON .

JUST CHILL and PLAY your GAMES !!