Support for JavaFibs

[paulie]

It appears there is no longer any development being done for JavaFibs.  I would like to volunteer to support this software as there are a couple of enhancements that I would like to implement that would make this software favored over Fibszilla.  I studied Java programming about 12 years ago as a programmer/admin person.  Is the source available for perusal?  Probably the environment has changed significantly over the decade that I was doing Java, so maybe I am not able to do what I think I can, but I'd like to try.

[diane]

Take some time to talk to inim on this one..it isn't straightforward, there are software ownership issues with the original author.

[Tom]

Take some time to talk to inim on this one..it isn't straightforward, there are software ownership issues with the original author.

Yeah that is true, but after all these years I wonder if he really cares any more.

The issued dealt with who had a say in what features went in to the code.
We were working with the original author at making changes and improvements when things went south.

Tom

[dorbel]

Javafibs is already vastly superior to Fibzilla anyway.

[paulie]

Javafibs is already vastly superior to Fibzilla anyway.

Well, there are a couple of things that Fibszilla does better involving checker movement:
1) JavaFibs requires you to right-click to use the smaller number even if the larger number is illegal.  Fibszilla automatically recognizes this and makes the only legal move. 
2) Checkers occasionally disappear when being moved under JavaFibs.
The net result of 1 and 2 means it takes longer on average to make your move even when you know the one you want to make.

With respect to conversing with other players, Fibszilla is superior there also.  It will pop up a box in which you can type directly to that person without having to "t username ...".  That is a nice convenience.  True, the user list totally sucks on Fibszilla, but on the whole, during tourney play I prefer FIbszilla.

[diane]

With respect to conversing with other players, Fibszilla is superior there also.  It will pop up a box in which you can type directly to that person without having to "t username ...".  That is a nice convenience. 

That is my single most detested feature of Fibzilla..nothing worse than trying to concentrate on a tourney final and having pop ups popping up all over the place.

It was much worse when TDing was a more manual process too.

By all means have that, but please keep it optional. I know some love it, but those that dont, really dont.

[Zorba]

Just in case: In JavaFIBS you can right click on a player's or friend's name and choose "Chat" from the menu, to get a pop-up dialog box.

[paulie]

Just in case: In JavaFIBS you can right click on a player's or friend's name and choose "Chat" from the menu, to get a pop-up dialog box.

Thanks, I did not realize that.  Probably because I am hardly using the client, now, but it's good to keep in mind.

[dorbel]

No offence paulie, bu if you think that Fibzilla is better than javafibs, then why not put your efforts into fibzilla? You already say that you hardly use javafibs anyway! Perhaps somebody who does use it and is enthusiastic about it would be more suitable to develop it.
In all my years of using it I haven't noticed the disappearing checker syndrome more than two or three times. It is a resizing glitch, so using the board full screen eliminates the problem. I don't think that right click to play the smaller die first is a big deal either, certainly not one that can possibly cause an increase in the average time taken to make a move surely?

[paulie]

No offence paulie, bu if you think that Fibzilla is better than javafibs, then why not put your efforts into fibzilla? You already say that you hardly use javafibs anyway! Perhaps somebody who does use it and is enthusiastic about it would be more suitable to develop it.
In all my years of using it I haven't noticed the disappearing checker syndrome more than two or three times. It is a resizing glitch, so using the board full screen eliminates the problem. I don't think that right click to play the smaller die first is a big deal either, certainly not one that can possibly cause an increase in the average time taken to make a move surely?

I volunteered to support JavaFibs because I actually studied Java at one time.  I don't know what language Fibszilla is written in but if it was a language I knew (C, Ada, Fortran,  Cobol, or XWindows/Motif), I would be happy to support it.  I think, however, I am dreaming a bit, because I've been retired for 10 years now and I've forgotten most of what I knew.  I know that because my last job was as a Unix system admin and I recently logged into a Unix machine and couldn't even remember how to display the disk drive information.

Possibly the right-click thing is because I got used to the Fibszilla interface first and then when using JavaFibs, I found myself on the bar and clicking away with nothing happening, only realizing after a couple of clicks that the high number was blocked.  I suppose I could get used to that, but the checker disappearing is disconcerting and I have heard other folks claim that there is no problem or, as you say, if I play full-screen the problem goes away.  I suppose I could try that.  I got frustrated because a couple of my opponents were claiming I was playing too slowly, when sometimes I was having to undo and redo a move due to checker disappearance.  And I do like to think, so I'm not real quick.  Tonight I'll try the full-screen JavaFibs and see if I have any problems.

[diane]

Tonight I'll try the full-screen JavaFibs and see if I have any problems.

Excellent! 

Consider setting your hello message to greet your opponent and ask for them to have patience as you are learning a new interface. That might offset some complaining.

If you stick at it, I am sure you will come to see why we all worship the javafibs 

[paulie]

Excellent!  

Consider setting your hello message to greet your opponent and ask for them to have patience as you are learning a new interface. That might offset some complaining.

If you stick at it, I am sure you will come to see why we all worship the javafibs  

Well I tried it full-screen and had a checker disappear on me.  It only happened once, though, in 2 matches.  I don't like playing full-screen, either--it occludes the other parts of the application where people are kibitzing and shouting.  In the actual play, disregarding other features, Fibszilla plays better, imo.  Unfortunately, u can't adjust the screen size at all there.  I would like it to be a little bigger... sometimes I misread the dice.  Clearly the players listing on JavaFibs is vastly superior. I like the ability to filter out groups of players, but that's only helpful when you're looking for game.  In a tourney, you don't need the feature because your opponents are determined for you.  BTW, when I went full-screen I chose the option to detach the board into its own window.  I assume that's what you meant.  Not everybody worships JavaFibs.  I see other players using Fibszilla and 3DFibs, which I think is its predecessor.  Of course, you can only tell that if you're using JavaFibs, since Fibszilla doesn't display that info.  I dunno. I guess if I'm not in a tourney, JavaFibs is the way to go.

P.S. I just discovered something else Fibszilla does better than JavaFibs.  If you watch a playing using Fibszilla, you won't time out.

[AllanM]

Hi Paulie, personally I think the screen sizing is a red herring.  I also sometimes get the checkers disappearing, or even stranger, I hit a white blot, the white checker goes onto the bar and instead of the red checker taking its place the white one stays on the board!  In the past I have tried undoing the move and redoing, minimizing and maximizing to re-draw the board but the easiest and quickest way to get the board re-drawn is just to click the players list and then the board again and all is as it should be.

I have found that the disappearing checker seems to be caused by the way you click the mouse.  If you make a very quick jab at the mouse button that tends to cause the problem whereas if you make a slower, more deliberate, click everything is fine.  I think programatically that the MouseDown and MouseUp events are occurring almost simultaneously and happen too quickly for the software to handle both events.  This probably accounts for why a lot of players never experience the problem.

I too have thought that it would be good to get hold of the source code for Javafibs and make some enhancements, such as some Tourneybot integration but it does not seem to be available anywhere so I doubt you will get anywhere with that.

I thought that the 15 minute timeout was controlled by FIBS server and not the client code so I don't see how Fibzilla could by pass this.

[socksey]

Could the problem you're experiencing be with the version of JavaFibs you're using?  I'm using version 1.011.  Or maybe you need to redownload? 

socksey



Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value. - Albert Einstein

[KDP]

If you stick at it, I am sure you will come to see why we all worship the javafibs

speak for yourself Diane, i much preferred the look and the simplicity of use of fibzilla and the ONLY reason i dont use it now is because its not available for mac users.

[paulie]

Hi Paulie, personally I think the screen sizing is a red herring.  I also sometimes get the checkers disappearing, or even stranger, I hit a white blot, the white checker goes onto the bar and instead of the red checker taking its place the white one stays on the board!  In the past I have tried undoing the move and redoing, minimizing and maximizing to re-draw the board but the easiest and quickest way to get the board re-drawn is just to click the players list and then the board again and all is as it should be.

I have found that the disappearing checker seems to be caused by the way you click the mouse.  If you make a very quick jab at the mouse button that tends to cause the problem whereas if you make a slower, more deliberate, click everything is fine.  I think programatically that the MouseDown and MouseUp events are occurring almost simultaneously and happen too quickly for the software to handle both events.  This probably accounts for why a lot of players never experience the problem.

I too have thought that it would be good to get hold of the source code for Javafibs and make some enhancements, such as some Tourneybot integration but it does not seem to be available anywhere so I doubt you will get anywhere with that.

I thought that the 15 minute timeout was controlled by FIBS server and not the client code so I don't see how Fibzilla could by pass this.

Thanks for the tip on redrawing the board.  Fibszilla prevents timeouts by periodically performing a "whois" on the opponent of the player you are watching, thereby resetting the timeout.

[diane]

I thought that the 15 minute timeout was controlled by FIBS server and not the client code so I don't see how Fibzilla could by pass this.

This is a feature I had noticed, I am not sure if it is intentional or not. FIBs times you out if you are inactive..so my best guess is that FIBzilla does something on a regular basis that tells fibs you are still active [even if you aren't involved in that..a time request maybe?].

It is useful, but over rides the intent of the timeout, so admin isn't keen on that.

For me, it just doesn't swing the choice..the timeouts dont bother me at all. If I'm watching a match, actively, I will be chatting or whispering, or can just send a 'time' command, or toggle ready / not ready every so often. I realise others find them a pain, but not me. That is considered one of the main advantages of tigergammon.

By 'WE', I do not mean everyone, I mean those who favour Javafibs...by default, if you don't worship javafibs, you are not one of the 'we'..Imagine a primary school class learning set theory. They may all move into groups according to likes or dislikes..the group who likes Star Trek may well describe themselves as 'we all like Star Trek'...simples 

[paulie]

..so my best guess is that FIBzilla does something on a regular basis that tells fibs you are still active [even if you aren't involved in that..a time request maybe?].

See my last post above ...

[diane]

See my last post above ...

Ah yes, sorry, not sure how I missed that one. Thanks for the info!

[paulie]

Could the problem you're experiencing be with the version of JavaFibs you're using?  I'm using version 1.011.  Or maybe you need to redownload? 

socksey



Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value. - Albert Einstein

I'm using version 1.012

[diane]

I'm using version 1.012

Me too, and I don't see the checker issue. I use the blue and white board designed by Alef..not sure if that is relevant.

Have you had a conversation with inim? - he really understands the issue, and will be able to answer questions more fully.

[Tom]

I am talking to Peter about making a release to addressee the biggest issues.

I am hopeful we can make it happen.

Tin

[KissMyAss]

Tin

Tired bossman??? 

[paulie]

Just realized another thing about JavaFibs that is annoying to me.  The moves are instant.  Complicated doubles by my opponent are instantly made and I find myself often going to the text to see what happened.  It also happens on the first move.  Is there any way to slow it down? (Fibszilla provides a speed adjustment.  You can make it as fast or slow as you please.)  w/r/t board usage: I am using a vector board which is resizeable.  If I used a non-vector board, would the checker problem go away?  Those boards are pretty small.

[paulie]

Me too, and I don't see the checker issue. I use the blue and white board designed by Alef..not sure if that is relevant.

Have you had a conversation with inim? - he really understands the issue, and will be able to answer questions more fully.

What is the board designed by Alef?  I see no reference to that in the Boards... menu.

[ah_clem]

Just realized another thing about JavaFibs that is annoying to me.  The moves are instant.  Complicated doubles by my opponent are instantly made and I find myself often going to the text to see what happened.  It also happens on the first move.  Is there any way to slow it down? (Fibszilla provides a speed adjustment.  You can make it as fast or slow as you please.)

JavaFibs does not provide animated checkers like gnu, XG, 3DFibs, Fibzilla, et al.   The screen goes right from the previous position to the next position.

I don't have a problem with this since you should be making your decisions on where the checkers are, rather than where they were a moment ago.  But some people really like animated checkers, and  Fibzilla is probably the client for them.

[paulie]

What is the board designed by Alef?  I see no reference to that in the Boards... menu.

Again, Diane, what is the board designed by Alef that you  refer to?  Where is it found?

[paulie]

Again, Diane, what is the board designed by Alef that you  refer to?  Where is it found?

Nevermind.  Finding the non-vectored boards too small, I took the "wood" board and doubled it in size.  The size is now very nice.  I will use it tonight to see if the checker issue goes away with a non-vectored board.

[diane]

Again, Diane, what is the board designed by Alef that you  refer to?  Where is it found?

Sorry, havent been here in a while..

some custom boards are here:

http://www.fibsboard.com/javafibs/custom-boards/

Alefs board is here:

http://www.fibsboard.com/javafibs/new-boards/

FYI..I had the instance of a checker disappearing on me the other day. It is the only time, and I knew it was really there, so it didnt cause me too much trouble. I guess it will depend on how frequently that happens, and how much you recall the location of your men as to how big a deal it will be.

[paulie]

Sorry, havent been here in a while..

some custom boards are here:

http://www.fibsboard.com/javafibs/custom-boards/

Alefs board is here:

http://www.fibsboard.com/javafibs/new-boards/

FYI..I had the instance of a checker disappearing on me the other day. It is the only time, and I knew it was really there, so it didnt cause me too much trouble. I guess it will depend on how frequently that happens, and how much you recall the location of your men as to how big a deal it will be.

Alefs board is very attractive but a little small for my taste.  I might just modify it to make it a little bigger.  The double-sized wood board is almost too big... and I'm not crazy about the colors of the checkers.  I'll probably mess with them both.  With the tourneybot debable last night, I can't even remember if I had a checker disappear while using the double_wood board.

[paulie]

Alefs board is very attractive but a little small for my taste.  I might just modify it to make it a little bigger.  The double-sized wood board is almost too big... and I'm not crazy about the colors of the checkers.  I'll probably mess with them both.  With the tourneybot debable last night, I can't even remember if I had a checker disappear while using the double_wood board.

Ok, I've created an Alef board about 1.4 times as big.  I'll try it in tonight's Tampa tourney.

[paulie]

Ok, I've created an Alef board about 1.4 times as big.  I'll try it in tonight's Tampa tourney.

Played all night with this board. Not one checker mishap!

[diane]

Excellent 

[paulie]

I have uploaded a zip-file containing the larger version of Alef's design.  I put it in the thread where Alef created his board.  Thought that was the logical spot for it.