Dear Patti

[jackdaddy]

Right and Bob has never used the terms nigger or negroid...

[adrian]

  Hmm, obviously two people who posted in this thread saved the fibs shouts on daily basis maybe , rofl, what poor life for years maybe, and dorbel is not one of them.

[don]

As usual, there’s confusion here about the issue.  We have some useful and intelligent responses on this thread as well as some flames and some misdirected comments (mostly due to flames).  In advance I should warn you that this post is what is called a ‘rant’ by a few, and from a ‘sanctimonious twit’.  These are  Patti’s words, consistently quoted by flamers on FIBS and IMO speak for themselves as well as their sources.  Let me try talking about what really happened as well as the issues including racism on FIBS, Patti’s pique, and perhaps dealing with the pros and cons of the posts on this thread.

The proximate cause of my current ban on  FIBS goes more or less like this:

• I made some comment about objecting to racism, not specifically directed at NIHolympic;
• 
  Patti shouted that I should lay off NIHo.
• 
  In the CHAT that ensued I agreed to both ‘lay off’ NIHo for at least a month AND report NIHo’s abuse to Patti.
• 
  Patti objected to any future notification/complaints on this issue from me.
• 
  I objected to Patti’s objection.
• 
  Ban.

Note what was in shouts and what was in chat.

What’s there to say about racism on FIBS?  I think it’s not supposed to be there from day one (1992); There’s some people who get away with it who are very vocal on FIBS; The people who are frequent offenders number less than five; Others are encouraged to go along with them by the toleration of racism on FIBS.

Patti’s problem has several possible explanations:  Perhaps she supports the racists (I hope not); Possibly she doesn’t like being reminded of the opening premise of FIBS since she can’t or won't bother to  enforce it; Maybe she’s friends with some of the racists and is attempting to remove what seem problems by befriending one or more racists on FIBS.  I’m sure there’s more possibilities, but it is difficult for me to believe there is a way to get in trouble on FIBS by objecting to racist shoutsâ€"there is NO reason to object to an opponent of racism on FIBS that I can conceive, but no objection by FIBS or Patti to object to racists that I’ve seen.

Replying to those participants on this thread, in seems dorbel and KDP disagree with my point of view, spielberg roadkillbooks garp02, diane!, socksey! Bones, Adrian, maybe jackdaddy agree.  No surprise from dorbel, who hides behind permagag to flame.  I don’t think I need to comment on NIHIHLIST.

So we have a server where free speech is allowed as long as you don't object to racism or Patti's friends.  

Enjoy!

==
don

[NIHILIST]

As usual, well-reasoned, articulate and factual. Don't let the door hit you in your ass and enjoy your roadtrip.


Bob

[dorbel]

Replying to those participants on this thread, in seems dorbel and KDP disagree with my point of view, spielberg roadkillbooks garp02, diane!, socksey! Bones, Adrian, maybe jackdaddy agree.

Erm actually no don, spielberg, diane and socksey agree with me as you will see if you read their posts, while adrian and jackdaddy say nothing to support you. Gag those you find objectionable and move on. Your narcolepsy inducing posts are even more tedious than those of the racists, although I am sure that you mean well!

[Patti]

Dear Don:

A. If you want to discuss the issue with me, posting about it publicly is not the way to accomplish this-- you would be just as well served shouting into the wind.  I wouldn't have even seen the discussion here if someone hadn't pointed it out to me.

B. You got banned because you asked me to ban you.  Don't leave that part out.

C. I do not censor FIBS chat (with a very few exceptions, largely having to do with personal attacks and threats) because the act of censorship is far more distasteful to me than the speech that I might censor.  I have explained this to you countless times, but you have failed to absorb the message.

D.  People who shout racist comments serve only to make themselves look pathetic.

I will not continue this discussion publicly, nor will I continue to read this thread.

[KDP]

OR....... lets simply have the message of the day changed to say:  Welcome to FIBS! All sorts of racists, a-holes and retards are welcome.

Then it would seem you would have no grounds to objecting to certain shouts.  You would then be forced to a. gag those you find offensive b. find another place to play.  Ooops  thats what we've been telling you all along.  My bad.

[jackdaddy]

Bob, do you think Bill Cosby would construe your racial epithets as racist? Or would he think you're only trying to open up an intelligent dialogue about race relations in the United States as others have suggested.

Maybe you could clear something up here.
About a year ago you were invited to a match by a German player. Your response was that you despise Germans in general, and Inim in particular and that this person should refrain from inviting you in the future. Now, some might claim that you were only trying to be a provocateur. If this had been posted in shouts there is a slim possibility I could believe that. It was sent as a tell. Now, maybe it's my naivete, or just the simple fact that I don't like you that's clouding my judgement, but please enlighten me. How can this be interpreted as anything but racist?

Oh, and Don? I support freedom of speech 100%.

[socksey]

I knew with don's first post here that this would become a flame throwing contest, and under the past fibsboard server "king", I would have closed it immediately.     However, I await the present server king to do this himself, as I seem to be more rant sensitive than he.     Or, maybe he just finds it has entertainment value.

socksey



If We Don't Take Care of the Customer, Maybe They'll Stop Bugging Us. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[boomslang]

Why is there no condemnation of the daily shouted rabid anti-semitism from our good European friends ? Isn't that racism ?

... and I challenge you to produce at least one of such shouts in, say, the next 24 hours. Start logging, Bob.

[manxcat]

"Do racial insults matter? Actually, they do. The labelling of a racial group within one's country or the citizens of another country with epithets that portray them as alien, as "other", is a key first step towards legitimising their ill treatment and eventually death." -dorbel

Indeed, as I have said frequently, albeit with other words.  It also creates a self loathing view on those who are the victims of such.  Genocide of the Mind has some good essays regarding this.

[socksey]

Well said, dorbel, and thank you kitty for reiterating it.     I think you are right.     I have felt the bite of reverse racsism, and I have felt the bite of bigotry.     It's not a happy nor is it a positive feeling for sure.  Let's try to forget old hurts and move on. 

socksey



The best leaders inspire by example. When that's not an option, brute intimidation works pretty well, too. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[Johnny_Boy]

Don.... (will) correct me if I am wrong but A racist is the one who ultimately believes that black isn't beautiful, Hitler was vilified(he never gassed all those people),white is right etc... I personally haven't found anyone of that nature on fibs or if they were here they were only here briefly because they couldn't take the level of knowledge thrown around on this site and eventually left. I can think of a few but I won't get into naming them. What I see is the epithets thrown out speak more to ones upbringing and station in society rather than true racism. Don you should be ashamed that you react at all and act so self righteous. I would pity the few that can't keep a civil tongue, but then like I was advised when I first came on the scene......
I would have to lower my standards to survive shouts.
We are a disparate group but we are a cohesive unit. If anyone ever put down backgammon then I would certainly be asking Patti to correct their behavior. other than that most of us are adults and should know how to sink or swim.
The real issue is that you have put yourself in a position to be baited constantly and they are always going for the jugular.
So how do you get out of that position? That's up to you.

[diane]

I knew with don's first post here that this would become a flame throwing contest

My initial inclination was to ding it - same old same old.....but so far, it isn't so bad - and it seems we need to do this once a year or so, so all the new people can say all the old things and don has something to do whilst he is banned. [oh and a thread this long on one of his subjects must be making him feel more of a man than he has in a long time]

I also liked the stog posts much earlier in this thread - which were actually about the original post, not this tangential discussion about who is or isn't and what is or isn't racist....

[adrian]

  I am afraid of muslims. I really am. I try to never meet them, to speak to them, to get near them. I am racist? I feel like yes. But that fear is close to the fear I feel when I accidentally stumble upon a spider web in my yard , with my face and the spider was in the middle of that web and slowly crawls down near my nose. That is why I will never ever spend my holydays in a country where women must cover their face and I am not allowed to laugh or criticize religion.
Oh yes, I accidentally met a few normal guys who accidentally embrace that stupid religion. That didn't change my feeling about the majority of their kind, it only proved that some of them are unhappy living in the mud and I am right .
I am racist about this issue, shoot me 

Other people have other fears. Each of us have at least one big fear and some, exhibit it online, covering it in foulmouth shouts or futile wars against racism. It is entertaining up to a point. After that is dull.

[Zorba]

I've met a few catholics that actually were okay but just accidentally embraced this religion that killed more innocents than any other ideology in the world.

[NIHILIST]

The Inquisition especially targeted bald, Durch heretics.

We're all thrilled you survived.


Bob

[Zorba]

but nobody as much as you!

[boog]

Freedom is a Fibs command called "gag".  I need say no more, but I will.   

When people are censored in their speech, Fibs becomes a boring backgammon site.  The shout feature in Fibs and it's freedom, is what makes Fibs special and above all the rest.     Long may it reign!   

socksey



The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly. - Lithograph from Despair.com

Here, here! Couldn't have said it better myself, but will try. No. Will save it for later. Oh, by the way, Patti, you cloven-hoofed-crimson-oxen (bet she reads this), I got around your perm gag. Yea! See ya there, big red.

[inim]

How about giving Don and Niho their own private thread, readable only for their accounts? In other words: get a room, you too, preferably the "Pot and Kettle Hall".