FIBS vsDailyGammon

[PersianLord]

I think that ratings in DailyGammon reflect the player's strength more truely in comparison to ratings in FIBS. The reasons are as follow:

1- In DailyGammon, your friendly match score don't affect your rating. So having multiple accounts would not be of help. But In FIBS, every match result affects your rating. So the cheaters may create multiple accounts and play against themselves.

2- In DailyGammon, you can't choose your opp in official tourneys, thus you can't pick up some weak opponents and take advantage of defeating them for rating-boosting. But in FIBS, you can.

3- In DailyGammon, you can't drop your losing matches, as your matches will get timeout and you will lose. But in FIBS, you may drop your losing matches. True that the opponent may report to repbot, but still you can drop from time to time without affecting much your reputation.

What do you think on this issue? Do you agree with me or not?

[don]

Dunno about Daily Gammon, but you are correct in points 1 and 3, wrong in 2.

--
don

[blitzxz]

When you can't choose opponents (fish overrrated or so) that surely makes ratings more reliable. Even if you're not trying to cheat but you only play against small circle of friends that too is going to screw up ratings. You and your friend would then have your own sub-rating system. Or some sort of semisub-system if you play sometimes against other players too.

Getting high rating with just dropping is hard thing to do? Or am i wrong? People should learn it and only other droppers or new players would like to play against you after a while.

In Dailygammon there might be bigger chance that players use outside help as there is more time to do so.

Rating formula also gives too little credit for skill in 1-pointers (or too much in longer matches) so you can boost your rating by playing only those. This works both in Fibs and Daily.

There's always way to manipulate ratings. No system is perfect. I see little reason to do so as the only gain is reputation (as a cheater). Although some might see it as accomplishment to be the best rating manipulator of all.

[PersianLord]

When you can't choose opponents (fish overrrated or so) that surely makes ratings more reliable. Even if you're not trying to cheat but you only play against small circle of friends that too is going to screw up ratings. You and your friend would then have your own sub-rating system. Or some sort of semisub-system if you play sometimes against other players too.

Getting high rating with just dropping is hard thing to do? Or am i wrong? People should learn it and only other droppers or new players would like to play against you after a while.

In Dailygammon there might be bigger chance that players use outside help as there is more time to do so.

Rating formula also gives too little credit for skill in 1-pointers (or too much in longer matches) so you can boost your rating by playing only those. This works both in Fibs and Daily.

There's always way to manipulate ratings. No system is perfect. I see little reason to do so as the only gain is reputation (as a cheater). Although some might see it as accomplishment to be the best rating manipulator of all.

It's quite the opposite, dear blitzxz. Since in DailyGammon you opp is not online and instead computer is guessing his moves, using a software would be very hard, as more than often computer's moves don't match with your opp's move and if you're using a software, you will have to edit the moves on a regular basis, just to finish a single match.

On the other hand, in FIBS, as there is no timetable and your opp is also online, you can use software much more effectively.

The other point is the fact that in FIBS, you always can pick up some weak players for rating-boosting, a trick that can't be done in DG.

[webrunner]

It's quite the opposite, dear blitzxz. Since in DailyGammon you opp is not online and instead computer is guessing his moves, using a software would be very hard, as more than often computer's moves don't match with your opp's move and if you're using a software, you will have to edit the moves on a regular basis, just to finish a single match.

Yes but this is really easy to do in f.i. GNUBG.

[dorbel]

Any rating system where you can select your opponents is open to abuse, but there are very few fibsters who bother to prowl for newbies and they are well known. Very few fibsters drop regularly and they are well known too. One or two fibsters also no doubt play both sides of the board to boost their rating, but it is soon spotted. Try not to worry about all of this.
Fibsleague ratings, in an entirely separate system, are of course more accurate, unselected opponents of around your own strength, matches of meaningful length, no dropping. Look there to get a more accurate idea of how you compare with others if it is important to you. However, as all ratings fluctuate over a range of 200 points, sometimes more, we cant learn much from them. A system taking the average of our rating at the end of each of our last 100 matches would be more stable and give a much fairer picture of where we stand. For even greater accuracy, matches of less than 3 points should also be taken out.
Still, at the end of the day, the plays the thing. Rating means a whole lot less than a pleasant and sporting opponent. BG Giant Bob Wachtel is a great guy to play, not because he plays solid World Class bg, although he does, but because he is courteous, amusing and accepts victory and defeat with charm and style.

[PersianLord]

Any rating system where you can select your opponents is open to abuse, but there are very few fibsters who bother to prowl for newbies and they are well known. Very few fibsters drop regularly and they are well known too. One or two fibsters also no doubt play both sides of the board to boost their rating, but it is soon spotted. Try not to worry about all of this.
Fibsleague ratings, in an entirely separate system, are of course more accurate, unselected opponents of around your own strength, matches of meaningful length, no dropping. Look there to get a more accurate idea of how you compare with others if it is important to you. However, as all ratings fluctuate over a range of 200 points, sometimes more, we cant learn much from them. A system taking the average of our rating at the end of each of our last 100 matches would be more stable and give a much fairer picture of where we stand. For even greater accuracy, matches of less than 3 points should also be taken out.
Still, at the end of the day, the plays the thing. Rating means a whole lot less than a pleasant and sporting opponent. BG Giant Bob Wachtel is a great guy to play, not because he plays solid World Class bg, although he does, but because he is courteous, amusing and accepts victory and defeat with charm and style.

Dorbel, seems that you got it wrong.

I never claimed anything bad about FIBSland's people. I just said that as cheating is much easier in FIBS and much harder in DailyGammon, you may find ratings in the former site, less real then the ones in the latter. That's all.

As this guy puts it in a nutshell:

"DailyGammon :A turn-based system, you just log in once a day to make your move. The standard of play is excellent, there are always tournaments going on, the players are nicer, and come from all over the world. Because the games are not "live", you can be engaged in several games at once. One of the best things about DailyGammon is that because games are timed, droppers automatically lose! I've won a handful of games this way (once a gammon). No special software is needed."

http://members.tripod.com/~msenecal/Backgammon.htm

Sure I like FIBS too, as it's real-time and sometimes you may get tired of the turn-based DG. 

[cassandra]

talking about rating is a bfwot