Mac vs Windows

[SirLuzalot]

(( This post was originally in reply to a 3dFiBs post query but has been moved from original thread -Alef))

Stop wasting yer time and get a Mac, Shea, only wasting yer time with a zillion updates for a system which is only a crappy copy of the original, the Mac Desktop... and you'll be rid of viruses on top.. and great SPAM control.. I can't bear your misery, friend

For those of  you who are not aware of just some of the problems, one is that Pee See Explorer Supreme Slowness because it's busy when you connect to the internet in sending a 'menu' of yer activities to 'Mother'  who has disguised herself as a nerd to survive in a man's world, Billie Boy G., info then used to sell off to spammers.. It's good business but poor mentality.. Will give him credit for being the cause that Apple computers are now available to human beings, when back in the 80's cost as much as runabout! They never envisioned private use..   <_<

Was a great victory when Microsoft were served the biggest fine just recently, for scamming the good people on our planet..  

Oh, and there won't be no more stuff that will improve things in the future from Microsoft and they spend huge amounts buying or sponging into software companies, full of people who actually know what they are doing, because 'Mother' finally realised 'it' don't and will eventually lose the WAR by annihilation and your moeny is being put to good use.. Survival of the fittest is a grand term!

Well there is also Linux of course, but then I haven't used it much and can't be bothered programming, tho perhaps one should learn some about that in the future.. Good for laters!

And may I finally give praise to this fine 'board' and the people behind it.. Great work! Fibs rules!

See you all out there.

'Stay clear, cause the path is rightous'   these emotifonts ARE funny..

[SirLuzalot]

aw crap, forgot to say why Mac was the solution, because 'we' use MacFibs.. I tried ALL the others on both platforms and found that in 'cool' use there just isn't anything like MacFibs..

Leads me to my next post: MacFibs is out of touch with the  arrival of UNIX in Apple <-- thanking whoever responsable at Apple for a BRILLIANT manouver in choice of a tremendous OS, the PANTHER for OSX!!! WOW! <--- raving!  

Anyway, MacFibs is superbly user friendly compared to the lot! Tho I would like to rehash the client for use directly in OSX, the future as MacOS 9 will eventually be history... Actually have a new client in mind with same feel and usability but added features...

As is, many features such as RepBot, which I have begun to enjoy a lot, is only accessed through commands in terminal for me, then I might be in the dark here  <_<  .. RepBot saves a player lots of grief and frustrations which sometimes airs as acid in the shout ( sound familiar? ))

So any programmers on fibs up for it?

Sorry Pee Sees, am not including my great designs thoughts for a Xplatform, basically because I have no clue and actually couldn't give a toss!    

'These emotifonts ARE funny!'

[webrunner]

Please don't start a flamewar Mac versus Windows.
There is loads of other places to do that.

I'll just say a couple of things though..

1. your reaction to one single program not working is typical for mac users.
They are either to stupid or lazy to get to know their computer.
Suggesting to buy a new computer is the same as suggesting to buy a new car when the oil filter has to be changed. Madness!

2. Your Precious Mac desktop is nothing but a copy of one of the first windows operating systems created by Xerox or some other company. So actuaqlly apple copied it from someone else.

3. The latest MacOs x is based on FreeBSD, a spinoff of the one and only true Operating system, namely Unix, which is also the father of Linux. There is almost nothing left of the old MacOs. Actually now it is nothing other then a specialized FreeBSD distribution, like Lindows is a specialized Linux Dirtsibution.

Last i would like to add that your postings aren't helping sheawrite at all.

To Sheawrite:
I know 3DFibs is especially compatible with Windows 9x. TucsonAZ even creates and tests it on a Windows 95 machine!
I myself have run it on all Windows flavours and it always runs like a dream.
That tells me spomething else is wrong...
Could you give us some more information on the error you are getting?

[SirLuzalot]

Web... I know I am not helping Shea, simply cause I can't, and I would apreeciate you reading the fine print in my reply? A flamewar on Mac vs. PC is not the issue, but from yer post I deduct you're a keen PC kinda guy... Being a stubborn but realistic kinda guy and thinking the 'board' to be a free place for a fibber to post an opinion, I would appreciate not being patronized by you because you are the admin... fine by me,  but if you don't like my opinion I will state it elsewhere....

So what is the board is for really, if not to state an opinion and what I may perceive as fact, you being the guy in charge ;-)

No beef, no flame, and apart that, we're fine, and you know it!

[diane]

From my visit to webrunners place - he seemed to have one of everything - so no preference - i saw a mac for sure !!

The point being - if yer reply doesnt answer the question - then it belongs elsewhere!!  Aint saying it isnt an interesting conversation - we just need to get sheawrite working!! (and i cant help - sorry!!)

[alef]

First priority is helping shea which I can't do because I'm on a mac!

But secondly, a debate on Macs vs Windows is rather interesting. While I agree with you, webrunner, that SirL's "get a Mac" rant was over the top, I can't agree with you saying "don't start a flameware" and then following that with Mac slander! I was shocked to read "They are either to stupid or lazy to get to know their computer."  :angry:

When money is an issue then I fully understand going with Windows, but ignoring costs then Macs really are awesome. My early addiction to FIBS was very much due to using MacFIBS. When it came out in the mid-90s it was a great example of software in a totally different league to what was available for Windows, and it still stands up well now even though Macs themselves have moved on to a better operating system.

Orginally I had to get a Mac because of graphics work I was doing. And like many Mac users because of the general lack of help I've had to become my own Technical Support and feel I probably know my way 'under the hood' better than your average computer user. Sheesh, "stupid and lazy", I'm still speechless.

I've split this thread into two forums:
Original thread asking for 3dFiBs help
New thread on Macs vs Windows

[webrunner]

Alef, you are right, i overreacted.
Of course not all MAC an other Apple users are stupid and lazy.

Let me explain where this Mac Slander comes from:

I have been reading and posting on ICT related forums for many years and worlking in ICT for many years, using just about every kind of computer you can imagine: Sun Sparcs, Macs, Linux, Commodore 64, TI, Cobalt Cubes, Tandy, Zx Spectrum, AIX, AS400 etc.etc.etc.
So i would say i'm a fairly experienced computer user.
I am getting very tired of people who rave to me about macs being superior because it is so easy to use. Having a bad day anyway, i really expressed my frustrations a little to harsh.. and i apologise for that.

I do think that big portion of the Apple users only use it for stability and ease of use, but it is not a correct comparison.

In all this time i have yet to encounter a computer that has no flaws and does exactly what it is told. With no exception they all had flaws, bugs, errors, compatibility problems, crashes, etc. etc.
100% of these problems are caused by human errors :
1. Because users make misstakes or install too much software.
2. There are bugs in the software software is made by humans and often exist from millions lines of couse, surely they can't be without faults)
3. several programms conflict with eachother, because it is impossible to test all software together on one computer.

So.. in my opinion.. it is not the hardware that makes a computer stable but the OS , the user and the software.

Now coming to macs:
In my 15 years of ICT consultancy i have met 2 kinds of Mac users:

1. Professional Graphical artists, printers, etc. which in the past had to choose for Mac since it just was the leading pc in this market and all the good software was only mac comptible. But this is changing rapidl BTW.

2. People (endusers) who rand about how easy to use a Mac is and how it never chrashes, but only use it for internet, writing a letter, etc. These where the kind of people i talked about and i have noticed how they often have a blind spot for their Mac's flaws and inconsitencies (as do all computer users for their favourite OS).

I have had loads more problems with macs compared with f.i. Linux.
I agree that Linux needed more technical knowledge in the past to get it up and running right, but not anymore.

What i am trying to say here is.. this is an old discussion, which i have had with people at least a hundred times.
On the internet there are thousands of places specialized on this subject and discussion and i thought that this isn't the place for it.
But i have partially revised my opinion: if i can start a topic about battered seals you surely can start one on Macs vs Windows. But in the same time i have to agree with Alef that the way this discussion was started wasn't really in place.
Someone asked for help anbd didn't get it. In stead he was told how bad ihis computer was.
So.. Alef the perfect solution in splitting this topic. (Good call Alef )

Next time please start a new topic if you feel strongely about a subject.

Getting back to the topic i would like to say that Mac is a very nice system but is not in any way superior then windows, linux or any other. The way that they reach more stability is that they have (almost) 100% control over the hardware charactaristics that are being used in and connected to macs. Since anyone can build a machine for windows and or linux and has a choice of hundreds of brands for the parts, there are a lot more possibilities for errors an incompatibilities to surface.
Microsoft has proved that they can make a stable OS when they have full control over the hardware being used on the XBox,like apple has on it's own computers.

Just my 52 cents

[burper]

If you are a windows user, you can go a long way towards running a happier machine by doing a few simple things.

First, stop using IE and Outlook and switch to mozilla or netscape for browsing and email. Rather than argue that they are superior int he security category, let me just argue that cretins don't spend time writing exploits for them as they are not market share leaders. Many people do consider mozilla/netscape to be superior to IE currently, simply because MS doesn't bother to imrpove IE. It's already the overwhemling leader, why spend resources on it? Oh yeah, they are both free (as in beer) and mozilla is free as in speech.

You should also run spybot and ad-aware periodically. These are malware finders and removers, where malware means ad-ware, trackers, keyloggers etc... Free versions available. When I visit a non-techie friend and run these for the first time, it is incredible the stuff you find. I use both as they tend to find different things. Be careful to only use reputable malware removers, as there are some out there that actually install their own! Popup blocking software is notorious for this.

You should run a personal firewall too, although I won't recommend anything here. What I use is defintely non-standard. I hear XP packages their own you can turn on.

You should also pay your security tax to the A/V mobsters and keep up to date with patches.

Keep up to date with MS patches. Real up-to-date, like, at least weekly.

Run the disk de-fragmenter from time to time. I run mine monthly or so.

While I'm on the subject of windows software, there is a neat little project called theopencd.org to which I have contributed. The idea is to showcase the best of breed open source software for windows computers and package it up on a CD you can give to people. No need to go the full linux route if you are not comfortable with that, but you can have free software that is of high quality and very stable. mozilla for browsing and email, openoffice for office tasks, abiword for simpler word processing, gimp for graphics work, filezilla for ftp/sftp, putty for telnet/ssh, games, screensavers, scitilla for file editting, and 7-zip for compression. Great stuff you can feel good about using, since it's been tested and is open, so there will be no malware included.  

[SirLuzalot]

err.... the real issue was if there was some programmer on FIBS wishing to create a new client in a joint effort, with the feel and useability known in MacFibs and some added features to be used in the UNIX unit.. was just trying to be helpful to my 'colleagues' and bring the FIBS experience to a higher level.. I could be accused for being be selfish in my wish!

I did put Macfibs through an editing app. but didn't reallly figure out much, all mumbojumbo to me, but then unlike 'others' I don't claim to be an expert on software, au contraire.. Let alone other computers in general.. But I like the user friendly computer, where most is self-explanatory and there aren't many 'hidden' surprises and I go with Alef on this one, as we have the same 'foudation' when it comes to using computerz.. Whis is THE Mac!

That you, Webrunner, took my 'help' to shea as a personal attack is quite unfortunate, but then I have been reading your other threads on here and I see our opinions diverge quite a lot when it comes to FIBS and what the community or what it is all about in general.. But we might be friendly even if we don't agree on much ;-)

However I wish to praise you on this 'BOARD' and I recommend it to any newbees before they enter FIBS, I even told cyan about it, welcome back btw, which I highly recommend to any BG player, as it is the bestest place for it, so they have an idea what they are in for beforehand, so, people; 'pay attention to yer inputs here, for we are being watched!'.. Burper, Alef.. cheers!


'I know what I know, and I learn something new everyday'

[webrunner]

Actually i didn't see it as a personal attack at all..
As i said i just got fed up with this (for me) old discussion.
I also said iwas a bit to harsh to you and most Mac users.
You are right.. the friendly way is the best way.

Anyway.. i feel the same way and i am glad that you like this site.
It is what it is and i try to be objective in moderating and administering. But that doesn't mean i have to be objective in posting, in my opinion that is.

[diane]

Ok, heres one windows user (98 2nd ed) who would very much like to run a happier machine!!

I would dearly like to stop using IE/OE, so how do i go about this, do i download the alternatives and delete the offenders, or just run the new with IE/OE still lurking in the background?  Is this likely to cause any conflicts or other nasty surprises?

I do run adaware regularly (on the advice of another helpful fibster) and find it roots out some stuff - but not all, a folder called 'delete me' appears every time i open IE and tries to access the net - Norton stops it - but i cant get rid of it- and it is really annoying - also have one rogue popup that appears once a week or so. What else (specifically) can i run to help with these?

Also - i dont know if this is related - and wether or not it can be helped - but i can only run javafibs for 3 hours - after that - it 'freezes' and i have no alternative but to reboot.  Does anyone know if this is java, windows or just the unhappy combination?

And can i just quickly add - a new computer is NOT an option!!

[burper]

I would dearly like to stop using IE/OE, so how do i go about this, do i download the alternatives and delete the offenders, or just run the new with IE/OE still lurking in the background? Is this likely to cause any conflicts or other nasty surprises?

I haven't gone the route of removing them completely, although I am sometimes tempted. If you have the disk space, just install mozilla and run with that for awhile.

To get your disk space on on 98 click on 'My Computer' and select the C drive, and I think a pie chart will appear (or was that new on ME?). Otherwise you can right click and select properties.

Don't forget to defrag your disk, which is something like START->Programs->Accessoriries->System Tools->Disk Defrag

If you want netscape, which comes bundled with an AIM client and is integrated with the netscape online stuff (free email etc...), see http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/default.jsp . This is what I use. It's build on the same base of code as mozilla. For mozilla itself, go here and follow directions for download/install, it's easy: http://mozilla.org/ Once installed, just ask again here and I will suggest some popup-blocking, spam-filtering, privacy controls and tabbed-browsing things for you.

If you want to remove IE, here is some reading for you. Others might comment on the safety and effectiveness of doing this:
Ok, heres one windows user (98 2nd ed)
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9903/09/removeie.idg/
http://www.peoriatrader.com/resource/livin...ie4removal.html

I think you might need IE around at least for doing win98 updates/patches. It can probably be done with IE gone, but I wouldn't know how easy that is.

I do run adaware regularly (on the advice of another helpful fibster) and find it roots out some stuff - but not all, a folder called 'delete me' appears every time i open IE and tries to access the net - Norton stops it - but i cant get rid of it- and it is really annoying - also have one rogue popup that appears once a week or so. What else (specifically) can i run to help with these?

That's great that you run ad-aware. Do you also update the signature thingies each time? It's easy to forget that part.

As I said before, the other one of these things that I run is spybot http://www.safer-networking.org/

Also - i dont know if this is related - and wether or not it can be helped - but i can only run javafibs for 3 hours - after that - it 'freezes' and i have no alternative but to reboot. Does anyone know if this is java, windows or just the unhappy combination?

Not sure. Maybe a memory leak? I forget how to monitor your system resources with 98, but it's something in the system programs menu maybe. Watch your resources over time and see if something is running out? Maybe doing the other things will help.

I would post that question on the javafibs forum (unless you already have) and see what Chuthlu has to say.