Banning people from tournaments...

[JonJon]

I ran a tournament tonight, and I had a bunch of people not start their matches and then tell me that their opponent was not responding...trying to bullshit me...

What they didn't realize is that you can't bullshit a bullshitter...

And I got all the matches started after some calling out of the bullshit in question.

The tourney mods need a private forum, where only we can read and post, where we can discuss who is doing what and who needs to be a banned and why....

We should make it democratic and fair....

I am sick of the not a nice persons though who think the can manipulate the rules however....there should be consequences for those who cause trouble and tell lies to the mods....

So a locked fourm that only tourneymods can go into would be a great idea..

What do you guys think?

JonJon

oh, and for the record, here are some of my shouts and tells during my tourney tonight......

You shout: TourneyBot says: T86R1M1 (3-pt): vegas_vic (1660.32) vs. toks (1476.0) TourneyBot says: T86R1M2 (3-pt): cowgirl (1612.74) vs. socksey (1634.21) TourneyBot says: T86R1M3 (3-pt): sunray (1686.01) vs. kid_pantyhose (1582.06)
Slipshod shouts: my pips are sensitive
vegas_vic shouts: he is suppose to be playing vic
Slipshod shouts: i am playing vic
stacy shouts: is everyone who registered playing now?
Slipshod shouts: my pips are still outcasts
billz shouts: roger stacy
Slipshod shouts: segregated tourney
Slipshod shouts: no red pips need apply
vegas_vic shouts: JON ?
kid_pantyhose shouts: sunray has disappeared behind a cloud, it seems...
vegas_vic shouts: come on what kind of a place are you running here
You shout: 3 mins til I start booting people, get to playing your tourney matches players
Slipshod shouts: his time had come, he set
vegas_vic shouts:  toks just left
Slipshod shouts: jonjon you're so manly
stacy shouts: play
Slipshod shouts: why can't i play in your tourney
Slipshod shouts: why won't you allow me to join
toks shouts: toks i back vegas vic is invisible!!
Slipshod shouts: I'm humiligated
You shout: Vic, are you pulling some bullshit here?
stacy shouts: you're too late slip
You shout: you know better...
Slipshod shouts: arghh
billz shouts: I'm humidified
Slipshod shouts: born to late for you to love me
Slipshod shouts: why, oh why, why was i born to late
rhia shouts: joooooon
rhia shouts: I need tourney bot.. I cant see it
Slipshod shouts: just as jonjon rhia, he can ring your chimes
stacy shouts: Are we having fun yet?
rhia shouts: lol slip
stacy shouts: good... now hurry up and finish
stacy shouts: hehehe
You shout: Everyone remember that the tourneybot has a ban function, if you ruin a tournament for the other players, you will get banned
Slipshod shouts: vegas vic is manuvering tok into a corner
You shout: the tourney mods communicate with each other regularly......
stacy shouts: and lose rating points...
Slipshod shouts: tok is clearly nervous
You shout: so don't be a *rick about the tourneys.....

theres more......

You shout: Rosco....are you missing?
You shout: You need ot play with Vic
You shout: TourneyBot says: Listing Tourney #86 Round 2 (match length: 3): TourneyBot says: T86R2M1 (3-pt): Rosco (1588.33) vs. vegas_vic (1660.32) TourneyBot says: T86R2M2 (3-pt): jasonj (1590.17) vs. cowgirl (1612.74) TourneyBot says: T86R2M3 (3-pt): sunray (1686.01) def. stacy (1532.14) 3-0 TourneyBot says: T86R2M4 (3-pt): cloud_one_four_nine (1546.89) def. billz (1677.23) 3-2 TourneyBot says: 2 out of 4 completed.
vegas_vic shouts: i dont see him
stacy shouts: can i take his spot?
You shout: I don't see him either
You shout: if he's not back by the time this round is complete, I will award the win to vic
stacy shouts: it'll be like a second bye
You shout: but we gotta give the guy a chance
stacy shouts: doh!
You shout: sorry stacy, there's no way to replace a player
You shout: just to award a win to another player
stacy shouts: okay
vegas_vic shouts: huh?
vegas_vic shouts: i thought there is  10 min limit
You shout: Vic, when the rest of the matches in round 2 are complete, I will award you a win, and round three will start
vegas_vic shouts: not that i want to be in the same game as that guy
stacy shouts: stop whining vic
jinnate shouts: http://tinyurl.com/3gqhm
souptree shouts: that would require death
You shout: I'm the tourney omd, I can make up the rules as I go if I so choose
You shout: tourney mod
vegas_vic shouts: well one good thing would be if all of you keep the same tourney rules
vegas_vic shouts: or its going to be hell changing every tourney
vegas_vic shouts: but thats my take
stacy shouts: rules... shmules!
You shout: each tourney is at the descretion of the mod
You shout: we cna allow whom we want to play in it, and can make our own rules about time limits and such
You shout: so it pays to be nice to the mod
You shout: and not screw around
resh_lakish shouts: jonjon, gargle my testes
You shout: my only interest is that everyone gets a faur shake
You shout: fair shake
souptree shouts: say please, resh.
vegas_vic shouts: todos if i dont take your invitation the the first time , i am not ging the 7th time , i am in a tourney thank you
You shout: and I don;'t trust a single one of you
vegas_vic shouts: what ever
socksey shouts: if moderators don't behave, they can be dethroned  LOL
stacy shouts: lol socks
You shout: sorry if you don;t like it, you can complain to MaddMatt
dapmat waves goodbye.
dapmat waves goodbye again.
souptree shouts: there's a moderator?
resh_lakish shouts: socksey for fibs dictator
souptree shouts: fibstator
resh_lakish shouts: yeah soup, i thought Patti was G-d around here
sackofjaweea shouts: I though Patti was P-tti around here
You shout: if rosco isn't back by the time jasonj and cowgirl finish, I'll award the win to vic
souptree shouts: P-tti doesn't moderate usually
You shout: tourney moderators
sackofjaweea shouts: what a p-ty
jasonj shouts: we're almost done...
socksey shouts: patti the boss
stacy shouts: mu cough is killing me
stacy shouts: making my abs hurt
commtech waves goodbye.
vegas_vic shouts: soup did you think Bush did well in his interview?
resh_lakish shouts: i sometimes dream of patti whipping me with her leather on
commtech waves goodbye again.
souptree shouts: not particularly
resh_lakish shouts: bush is testy
sackofjaweea shouts: My testes are bushy
souptree shouts: he has a pattern of having good arguments to make and not making them.
stacy shouts: gross
stacy shouts: gett em waxed
resh_lakish shouts: stacy go to bed this is fibs after dark
stacy shouts: it's past my bedtime
sackofjaweea shouts: what time is it in hell?
resh_lakish shouts: stacy what time do you get up in the morning
You shout: I awarded the win to vic since rosco is awol
TourneyBot shouts: *** Round 2 of Stacy's Special Tourney (Tourney #86) has been completed! Round winners: vegas_vic, cowgirl, sunray, cloud_one_four_nine ***
vegas_vic shouts: stacy how was the visit with boobie ?
cowgirl shouts: it's me and you vic!
stacy shouts: i'm so tired
vegas_vic shouts: me and youuuuuuuu
vegas_vic shouts: make two
cowgirl shouts: u ready?
Tony_The_Tiger shouts: 1pt anyone?
vegas_vic shouts: take me   to the moooooooooooo ___ n
stacy shouts: good luck cg
socksey shouts: go get him, sis!!!!!!!  ))
cowgirl shouts: I'm trying sis!
vegas_vic shouts: <<easy
stacy shouts: thx to all who played my tourney
stacy shouts: and to jonjon
stacy shouts: for helping me
socksey shouts: thx jonjon and stacy!  ))
You shout: TourneyBot says: Listing Tourney #86 Round 3 (match length: 3): TourneyBot says: T86R3M1 (3-pt): cowgirl (1612.74) vs. vegas_vic (1660.32) TourneyBot says: T86R3M2 (3-pt): cloud_one_four_nine (1546.89) vs. sunray (1686.01)

So those are the shouts, if you want you can read it fior yourself...and decide...

I left out the kibitzes....it would be too long....

[webrunner]

Although i understand your wish and complains about the mentioned practices, i think a closed forum is not the way to go. It creates the idea that there is a clique that wants to run FIBS (as Alef described in a other topic).

IMHO all should be open, also discussions on banning etc. This way people can defend themselves. There are enough ways to warn, punish or even ban people from the forum when things get out of hand.

I think FIBS should be as open as possible, although the initiators and creators of FIBS seem to think different about this. I am trying to supply an open playgraound here, in the spirit of what i think FIBS is all about. Creating a closed forum doesn't fit in that picture IMHO.

But.. i am open for any comment or debate about this. If more people like the idea of a closed forum, please let me know and i will consider creating one.

[MadMatt]

The mailing list at the webpage has been created for the purpose of discussing stuff that's not of interest to the general TourneyBot public, but perhaps only to Tourney Directors, coders and those wanting to be informed on everything related to it.

So, if you really want to discuss something that you don't think everyone should hear (although I fail to see why you would), use that. (Note that the list is public, too, everyone can join, but it's mostly TDs now).

Cheers,

[JonJon]

Right on, I hear what you folks are saying. And I dig that you want FIBS to be as open and honest as possible. I respect that.

I run the tourneys in the hopes that a smany people can enjoy tourneybot as is possible, and it pisses me off when a couple of jackasses spoil it for the rest of the people, thinking they are being cute....

Now that I know about Rosco, I will keep an eye out for him.

I also nominate Vegas_Vic for being watched, as he was pulling the I can't get my opponent to respond routine.

I think each individual mod should make his own rules for his own tourneys. There should be general rules that apply to everyone, and then let the mods intrepret and apply the rules as they see fit.

Thats just what I think.

I am always open to discussion.

JJ

[webrunner]

I for one, would regret that Burper.
Just keep doing what you are doing, only maybe a little more subtle.

[socksey]

good idea, i think to have a private forum for directors and to copy insults or problems at the time.  i didn't think of that.  i left messages to most directors/moderators concerning vqs, whom i suspect was drunk or otherwise out of control during one of my tourneys.  he refused to whisper while watching final match.  was cheering one finalist and otherwise being disruptive in kibitz, and was rude to me when i asked him to whisper............3 times.  as far as i'm concerned, i have banned him from my tourneys for some time and recommend the other directors do the same.  this all resulted in many insults to me and much kibitzing by him until one of the players blinded him from the match.  then we were subjected to many rude shouts.  

socksey

[socksey]

in defense of vegas_vic, although he is a whiner, for sure and annoying at times in shout when he gives play by play info that not many care to hear, i think i can say that he is honest.  if he said someone wouldn't respond to him, i wouldn't doubt it for a second.

i agree with being easy on the banning.  sometimes after a disagreement, i have become best friends with someone.  a good example of this is jester/jackson.  people do change.  if you are kind to them, be matter of fact with them, take the time to explain to them the problem they have caused, then most will respond by giving you no more trouble.

i think most problems are caused by miscommunication or lack of communication.  if your communication skills are lacking, you will probably make a bad director.  using the golden rule (do unto others as you would have them do to you) usually makes friends.

socksey

[alef]

Dealing with idiotic behaviour on FIBS has to be the biggest factor that drives people to join GamesGrid and other pay servers. It's such a thorny and nightmarish problem.

I propose the creation of the FFTC, the Fibs Free Tournaments Committee. Here are my recommendations:
- Anyone can stand for election to the committee
- Fibsters vote committee members into place for a fixed term
- There are seven places on the committee
- It's the committee's responsibility to draw up a code of conduct and the necessary sanctions
- The committee's discussions are in a closed but public forum

RepBot has been an excellent example of a grass roots solution to droppers, can this be a way to fairly deal with tournament abuse?

Are there actually enough people willing to stand for such a committee?

[MadMatt]

Dealing with idiotic behaviour on FIBS has to be the biggest factor that drives people to join GamesGrid and other pay servers. It's such a thorny and nightmarish problem.

I propose the creation of the FFTC, the Fibs Free Tournaments Committee. Here are my recommendations:
- Anyone can stand for election to the committee
- Fibsters vote committee members into place for a fixed term
- There are seven places on the committee
- It's the committee's responsibility to draw up a code of conduct and the necessary sanctions
- The committee's discussions are in a closed but public forum

RepBot has been an excellent example of a grass roots solution to droppers, can this be a way to fairly deal with tournament abuse?

Are there actually enough people willing to stand for such a committee?

I have to say, while the idea is not without merit, I find it to be too complicated. Tourneys are simple and fun, let's not overcomplicate the entire manner by creating councils and whatnot.

What I hope is that some standard rules will form themselves in time through experience and trial and error. I think that'd be better than artificially trying to invent some.

Cheers,

[alef]

I agree with you both that putting the energy into running the tournaments themselves is far more sensible. I'd just love to see FIBS have some form of democracy...

[socksey]

Since I am already serving on two committiees (volunteer political party) and am spending much time listening to endless arguing, I am not agreeable to more committee work.  Sorry, Alef, bro, but I think we can weed out the bad seeds ourselves individually for now.  I think if we deal with each one as it happens, all will smooth out eventually.  

While I hate the arguing, flaming, and general bad taste of topics in Fibs shout, I don't think we should be the designated police there.  I think if we start creating a lot of rules, people will think we are trying to run Fibs by removing freedoms and I don't think that is what we want to do.  I think we can get away with individual censorship (with caution) simply because we are volunteering our time and effort.

I'm for more tourneys and fun.  I love the competition, and it seems many others do, too.  Also, I like the idea of 1 pt  matches.  It gives the weaker players a better chance to win.  I think it is boring to always have the same winners, and I like the idea of making the underdogs day!  

socksey

[socksey]

ROFLMAO............bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaa...........I thought all that was pretty funny, JonJon!  

socksey

[socksey]

Here's my latest exchange with vqs, 21 Feb 04, after he registered to play in my tourney #118.  I had a problem with the ban command and didn't get him out in time before the match began.  Note:  I did tell him I was tourney director when I asked him to whisper in the match in which he was declared banned by me.

socksey

You: i told you that you couldn't play in my tourneys again.
vqs: hi good luck
You: were u drunk the evening i banned you?
vqs: socks you are sucha hoot
You: well, i didn't find you amusing, dear.
vqs: wow that is realllly too bad
You: that was a very rude thing you did in kibitz with the
finalists.
vqs: i love to chat with you
vqs: funny socksey dear but teh personPLAYING didn't mind
at ALAL
vqs: ALL
vqs: just your nosey ass did
vqs: maybe you should concentrate more on your OWN
biz
vqs: ;-)
You: no, it is playing protocal. the other player didn't say
anything. i was directing and it was my call.
vqs: oooooh
vqs: the director huh?
vqs: but teh GUY PLAYING SAID he didn't mind
vqs: but you are omnipotent huh?
vqs: ;-)
You: i thought i might allow you to play again, but not with
this attitude you are copping.
vqs: he THANKDED me for rooting for him!!!
vqs: ;-)
You: sparti, yes, but what of the other player?
vqs: YOU are putting on the attitude
vqs: i was SIMPLY palying and OU came in and HARRASSED
me
vqs: right?
You: when? today? i told you before you were banned from
my tourney. why did you register?
vqs: now socksey is talking in ANOTHER game but THAT
is OK???
vqs: ;-)
vqs: this is where it IS AT
vqs: lol
vqs: get a life burp
You: never mind...........i can see there is no talking to you.

vqs: btu socksey i like you
vqs: but
vqs: ;-)~

[webrunner]

Just another question: Why not suggest and discuss global bans right here on the forum? If we want democracy and say that we all do it for fun and the honest fibs user, then this is the best place to start discussions like that, out in the open.
This way the suggested player and other players can respond and defend themselves, or even apologize

It might get more users to the forum on a regular base too.

[Zorba]

Hi Jonjon and others,

Reading part of these shouts, I think some players were actually genuinely having problems, and not trying to fool you or cheat in any way.

FIBS seems to have a bug, at least in combination with some clients, so that not all players show up in the playerlist. It can be tricky for people not used to give text comands to still play or chat with these players then and in fact people might think their opponent isn't on FIBS.

At any rate, I think it's wise, especially for TD's, to assume players are fair even when you might have some doubts about it. You never know what might be going on. People can have general PC problems, clients may be buggy, connection may be shaky, FIBS can be buggy, there might be severe lag etc.

If you notice players are just annoying and provoking you, as seems clear to me in the vqs vs. socksey discussion, I think it might be best to quit conversation after making your point. No more discussion.

(can't resist:)

Unless you enjoy some good old FIBS mud fight, of course!   In that case may I suggest taking it out on shout and involve as many shouters as possible!  

[webrunner]

You've got a good point there Zorba, in fact it happens in RealFibs, 3DFibs, WinFibs and even JavaFibs i've seen it happen.
I see people shouting that aren't in the pleyerslist, even after a refresh.

Thanks for pointing that out to us.

[webrunner]

I think 3DFibs does this already, but it still isn't flawless.    

[JonJon]

That does happen, that sometimes players are not visible on the players list. It happens all the time as a matter of fact. Being that it is not unusual, I would expect that an experienced player would have the sense to either, 1) refresh the list 2) 'tell' the assigned opponent that he/she cannot se them and would they please invite 3) not start screaming about how they deserve a win RIGHT NOW because they can't see the opponent in the player list 4) speak nicely to the TD and ask for help

In the instance I was reporting in the original post in this thread, when I informed one player that if he didn't accept the invite, he would be awarded a loss, the match started immediately. Isn't that funny? It started right away when I called out the bullshit?

JJ  

[MadMatt]

This is a known bug with FIBS. For unknown reason, sometimes only a subset of a player's list is sent on who/rawwho. Especially players who do not change their state for extended period of time seem to be prone to be left out. Hence the frequent problem with TourneyBot and RepBot not showing up on the list -- they never toggle ready, they rarely log in or out and they often stay completely idle for a long time.

There is really no way to completely solve or work around this problem. Even if the clients check shouts etc., the player table will still be partly inaccurate. If you suspect someone is on FIBS, but you can't see them, then send 'rawwho <name>' to FIBS (type it in your command window). That will fix it.

[socksey]

That does happen, that sometimes players are not visible on the players list. It happens all the time as a matter of fact. Being that it is not unusual, I would expect that an experienced player would have the sense to either, 1) refresh the list 2) 'tell' the assigned opponent that he/she cannot se them and would they please invite 3) not start screaming about how they deserve a win RIGHT NOW because they can't see the opponent in the player list 4) speak nicely to the TD and ask for help.

In the instance I was reporting in the original post in this thread, when I informed one player that if he didn't accept the invite, he would be awarded a loss, the match started immediately. Isn't that funny? It started right away when I called out the bullshit?

JJ

As a heads-up, jonjon, I am using 3DFibs and have a constant problem with seeing players.  Lately, sometimes, I have to refresh 3 or 4 times to find someone I know is there, so please don't be too quick to jump to conclusions about who may or may not be lying to you.  If it's slipshod, he is a total tease.  Don't believe anything he says.  

socksey




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