Community or snakepit?

[Zorba]

Since I notice I've been mentioned in this thread a couple of times, after a humorous start by NIHILIST, here's something to consider if you wonder about Bob Ebbeler's credibility.

*** WARNING: probably offensive material for many people ***

Just thought it might be nice to quote NIHILIST (Bob Ebbeler) on shout tonight (censoring by me):

NIHILIST shouts: me too, also at the image of that n*z*-sh*t-covered d**k  in zorbas granny mouth

Not worth commenting on any further, I'd say, just thought I'd share this for information. Although I doubt Patti will ever cooperate when it comes to freeing FIBS from shouts like these, I thought it only fair to share this with her, after all this is appearing on the FIBS server she runs.

[burper]

Different people find different things offensive. Your extreme bigotry towards all American's offends me, for instance, but it's not worth whining about.

[Zorba]

There's a difference between a political debate and the sort of shouts NIHILIST likes to make, I'd say. I'm sorry for you if you can't differentiate between the two.

[diane]

Top tip Zorba - and i think you might have heard it somewhere before.....
GAG HIM
He was the first player i gagged on here, about two weeks after i first joined i think!!  I ungagged him for a while when i saw some of the nice people talk to him.  That lasted maybe another week.  Whilst most of the other controversial shouters are often humerous, sharp and have moments of brilliance - i have never seen anything from him worth reading (albeit it over a very short time span!!)
When it comes to what one finds offensive - it is indeed subjective - and i find "hello" from him to be offensive.  So - he remains the only player i have gagged.

[amarganth]

Hi all

Please read my statement about TourneyBot.

Ok, the problem with the children is new for me.

The *special* shouts I've read a lot of time. I don't understand all, because of my mother language. May be it's sometimes better like that.  

If I play at FIBS, I can check the players. If they have a very bad reputation, I don't play with them. So, I play mostly against very nice players.

But in tourneys, I *must* play against the opponents, that I get from TourneyBot. And so my suggestion to all tourney directors is to use the TourneyBot with the min-reputation feature. May be, we can't change the language in the shouts, but we could change the language in the tourneys.

What do you think?

Greetings
amarganth

[diane]

I am with you on that one - and i always use it.    

[NIHILIST]

Here's some incredibly good advice for you, Zorba; Don't pick fights and you won't get punched.

Lately you've made a habit out of giving me sh** from the minute I log in. I decided long ago to never throw the first rock, but to throw a bigger rock when not a nice persons like you continue to run your mouth. The result is always the same. The guy who picked the fight, you in this case, run to Patti tearfully whining about how badly you've been abused.

Your comment about POLITICAL DEBATE is laughable. I invite Patti to review the logs and decide for herself whether your xenophobic ravings in any way resembled a DEBATE.

While she's at it she might look at shout logs for when you AREN'T logged in to see how the noise level decreases.

Bob

[webrunner]

You don't throw the first rock NIHI?

So.. what did you do yesterday in a private chat to me when i only wished everyone a good night? That wasn't a kind goodbye or even farewell!
It was an insult that came out of nowhere.. i never even spoke a word to you before that!

And don't call me a lier on this since i saved every letter of it!

BTW.. i have picked a fight and you never saw me running to Patti.

And also: yesterday you called me a dutch whiner that cries like a baby on the forum.. What are you doing now?

Don't get me wrong.. i am not taking Zorba's side here, although i have to agree that the language he uses is prolly a lot more civilized then yours.
And i appreciate you venting your opinion here, i really do, even after what you started yesterday.

But don't tell other people off about things you do yourself too.. i think that is what you call a double standard isn't it?

So a good advice to you: although you have the highest rating on fibs, that doesn't mean you are also the best person on fibs. Everyone has a right to be there and enjoy it without being bullied. So stop whining (yes i said whining) about Zorba yourself. (and that goes for biggles too).
I have noticed that you guys shout his name at least once every 5 minutes when he is NOT even there and it's getting way boring. Give it up already!

For Zorba: i don't understand why you keep picking fights when obviously a lot of people are fed up with it.

[Zorba]

I guess reality is something which completely escapes NIHILIST now and then.

Your assumptions are wrong. I just gave this quote to Patti and this forum for information, that's all. I didn't comment on it; I think your shouts speak for themselves.

I also don't mind getting responses to my shouts from people that disagree and from somebody like you I don't even mind getting insulted for many shouts in a row; I'm used to the gang of rude people you like to participate in (badass, Biggles_two, zyxtcba...). The only times I might feel "punched" is when respectable people criticize me; you're not one of those.

Judging by your language Bob, you always sound like a highly frustrated kid to me. Your long-term abusement of FIBS is starting to show ever more and out in the open for everyone. That's what you really hate me for, isn't it? I show you what you've become on FIBS over these years and it's an ugly sight. Many FIBSters might be surprised to learn you're in fact not a hormonally challenged 16 year old boy who thinks he's a man, but a settled middle aged guy. Is this really the image you want, Bob?

N.B. I suggest you read that shout by yourself a few times more, and then conclude you're disqualified for giving any moral qualifications about others supposed xenophobia. It's laughable Bob.

I hope you will never get banned, but rather learn to control yourself. It's part of growing up; never too late for that.

[Biggles]

God Bless Zorbald.....

Always good for a bellylaugh.



Have a good day, my fellow Fibsters.

Bigg
(The most popular Fibster)

[whidbeycraig]

Hi,

I have been on the server for awhile now and have noticed a deterioration of manners as well.  I feel it is sad that immature idiots pollute servers that  others hold dear and enjoy.
I agree with your decisions and feel that banning players who are offensive to others is the ONLY WAY to control these bad apples.  I hope you stick to your principles on this.

Regards,
Whidbeycraig

[Zorba]

Now there's an avatar!

I must say this is by far the funniest thing I've ever seen by Biggles. Keep it up!

 

[jinnate]

midnight musings and deep sea diving...

i was thinking about the charge of whining. and i was thinking about what i said in shouts the other day, about how nihi, biggles and others feel attacked by zorba. when zorba says something they feel offended by, they don't complain to patti, or plan local proxies, etc. they pull out their verbal bats and begin whacking.

my back and forth on a lot of this commy vs snakepit topic... once i used to be a member of this artists coop. a bunch of us got fed up with what we saw as abusive behavior by another group of artists in the coop. damned democracy, it took a majority vote to get anything done, and it seemed that on the subject of the abusive behavior, the coop was split right down the middle as to who wanted change and who wanted things to stay the same.

frankly, my own views on the subject was ban, bar, slash and burn: kick those ne'er do wells the blank out. it didn't take a genious to see where these schmucks were headed so why put up with their crap?

there was a lot of other stuff going on as well. to make a long story short. the division helped close the place.

i came away from that experience doing a lot of soul searching.

we had some really valid complaints. well, that's what i think anyway. ask someone else who was there and they might tell you differently. in the end it didn't matter because we weren't listening to them and they weren't listening to us. i still wonder how we could have done things differently.

it seems to me everybody at fibs is wearing protective armor in shouts.

[webrunner]

<_<
I am not...

[jinnate]

I am not...

you're not what?

back to my ramblings...

what i kept coming back to was maybe it was wrong to outright ban them. maybe, well, there had to be some way of getting them in on the action.

i should back up. after the place closed (and btw, i am not suggesting that fibs might close because of any of this), i kept going back and forth over what went wrong. we were putting a great deal of effort into keeping the place clean and nice and attractive. of keeping supplies and donations coming in. we were putting a lot of work into the place. and it seemed like the other group were putting a lot of work into getting as much out of it as they could, without putting anything into the place. we always felt like ... well, to use an analogy, you sweep and mop a floor, and then someone comes in and tracks in mud from outside. so you sweep and mop. and they do it again. and in normal situations, or healthy situations, you can go to the person, talk reasonably and come to an agreement. maybe they won't wear their shoes in the house so that doesn't happen. or they wipe their feet. but in the case of this place, the others seemed to resist all of that: why were we mopping floors anyway?

[alef]

jinnate, either you're smoking the whacky stuff or your anologies are on too high a level!

No, actually that's not quite fair, I think I follow some of what you're saying. Instead of giving up on the difficult people figure out how to include them more in the process of improving FIBS? burper has talked a lot about how RepBot and TourneyBot can give people motivations to behave and act sensibly in our online community, perhaps you're talking about something even more inclusive?

If you're trying to say something more specific maybe you need to spell it out concretely. By no means do I wish to poo poo your more ideological ramblings -- it's definitely good to brainstorm and rethink issues these ways -- but I do feel you need some more grounding in what you're saying if you want to hold people's full attention.

[PortWine]

Difficult people?  A pox on difficult people!

Work with them?  There is a difference between people who are difficult because they want things a certain way and people who are difficult because they base their lives on being difficult.

We have all run into people like this in our lives.  People who look to take offense for the least possible reason and than act all righteous.

FIBs needs to sort out who has valid complaints and suggestions and who is just trying to create problems.

And as for Jinnate's point, I think it was clear as day.  Sometimes people get so caught up in the fight they forget what they are fighting about and eveything falls apart as a result.  You are left wondering if you could have resolved it.

The only way to deal with people like this is to recognize them for what they are and not heed to their petty demands.  But personally, I say keep'em around because I find them amusing!

[jinnate]

No, actually that's not quite fair, I think I follow some of what you're saying. Instead of giving up on the difficult people figure out how to include them more in the process of improving FIBS? burper has talked a lot about how RepBot and TourneyBot can give people motivations to behave and act sensibly in our online community, perhaps you're talking about something even more inclusive?

If you're trying to say something more specific maybe you need to spell it out concretely. By no means do I wish to poo poo your more ideological ramblings -- it's definitely good to brainstorm and rethink issues these ways -- but I do feel you need some more grounding in what you're saying if you want to hold people's full attention.

you know, before beginning the midnight musings post, i came prepared with a whole bunch of arguments and tightly bound logic, and none of it felt right. i'm getting tired of preaching. mostly because it doesn't seem to be getting anyone anywhere. i'm noting people quick to stand on the soapbox and starting banging on the podium, and it doesn't feel like there's a conversation going on, just people yelling at each other and pointing fingers.

so i want to be less specific and concrete. i want to stop pounding on the podium. i am kind of new here and while what's going on here reminds me of that coop, this isn't that coop. i don't want to tell you how to handle it. i don't know that i can tell you how to handle it. we weren't successful in how we handled it, i can't imagine i'm really qualified to say "do it this way."

so i'm just spinning a yarn and seeing where i wind up.  

[PortWine]

Actually, I have an additional thought/comment.

A while back I discovered the shout log from 9/11.  Man was I pissed off!  Regardless of politics, these were innocent people.

So people want to complain about certain people on fibs right now?  Sure some of what people say it is definately rude and over the top.  Some of it might border on a warning from Patti or a temporary suspension.  But you want to talk about things that should get you banned?  Take EVERYONE from that 9/11 log who said something so cute and clever and ban them forever.

I would love to see if there was a log about people joking about lynchings of blacks in the South or slavery.  Or perhaps a log making jokes about the about the holocaust.  Funny stuff to be sure!

Lets all grow up and realize that there are sick and sadistic people out there.  We can all have fun, but lets not cross over that line.  Engage in some rough humor at times (I personally love it) and move on.  You don't climb into the ring if you aren't expecting to get popped in the mouth a little.  Take it like a man or women.

But where to draw the line?  I knew that when I was a kid on the school yard.  You say whatever you say to another guy, but you bring up his mother and everyone would beat the hell out of you.  We all know where the line is, we just need to respect it.  The 9/11 stuff is definately over the line.  The rest of this is just bull$hit is comparison!

[webrunner]

I am not...

you're not what?

wearing protective armour