Disgruntled.......again

[garp_02]

Hi,

I'm extremely annoyed 

I didn't join this league to waste 2 HOURS playing some muppet in Russia on a mobile!!!!

I have noticed that the rate of play is somewhat slow, but this takes the biscuit. I would have resigned, or indeed dropped, but it was a league match which I wanted to finish (lost 7-6 btw). But finally I was doubling just to speed things up.

Can anything be done, cos I don't see me hanging around too long - I don't have that much free time on my hands.

Cheers

[Tom]

I didn't join this league to waste 2 HOURS playing some muppet in Russia on a mobile!!!!

OMG playing a league match on mobile is crazy!

Look at the WHOIS for a player and look for the Phone.user.may.be.flakey.net

I would also complain to the TD (Tomawalky?) about that player

tom

[sixty_something]

muppets, Russians, and mobile users aside some matches just take time .. two hours is long even for a close 7-6 match, so perhaps you are legitimately annoyed .. there is little way to tell .. time issues are, IMO, compounded further in on-line play .. lag, disconnects, distracted and frustrated players all tend to wrench up the level of time awareness and disgruntlement

however, the issue of time in face-to-face major backgammon tournaments is a hot one nationally .. some major tournaments are beginning to use clocks in tournament matches as has been the custom in chess for decades .. i'm not sure exactly how clocks work in backgammon, but the issue has been discussed at length in other forums

for example, an interesting thread was passed my way recently by the director of the Houston Backgammon Club describing several instances of time issues during the three or four days of play in the recent New York Metro Open, one of the major American tourneys .. see the top article in an interesting, entertaining, and enlightening thread titled Homeless man camps out at NY Metro Open .. in addition to being a good read, it will provide a good chuckle

for another example, in today's Bloody Mary tourney we also had time issues when two players forfeited matches due to an automatic 7 minute clock which i use as a backup .. the tourney rules for Bloody Marys require players to start play within 5 minutes or resume within 5 minutes if a disconnect occurs .. i will start a 5 minute clock when advised .. when not advised, TourneyBot will automatically award a match when a player exceeds the 7 minute clock in either starting or resuming .. no one likes to be in a situation where a match is called on time, but when administered fairly all benefit in the end by strictly enforced time rules, especially in tournament play

in league play, assuming you're in FLG, the only time constraints are finishing your matches before the last day of league play .. there is currently no provision in on-line play that i am aware of for awarding a match when one player, for whatever reasons, plays much slower than the other -- maybe there should be, but just think of the controversies that would create .. a slow match just happens from time to time in on-line play .. so, your only recourse, garp, is to air your disgruntlement as you did or just pick your opponents very carefully .. of course, in league play you have little choice in who you must play

meanwhile, enjoy your good matches, garp .. the bad ones are generally far fewer in number, but tend to stand out like a rock in a shoe .. ironically, the good ones are easy to forget because we always expect a good match .. so, we just move on to the next one fully expecting yet another good match which we usually get .. the good news is you won't have to play that same opponent again during this league session .. the bad news is you won't always have problem free matches -- c'est la vie

[stiefnu]

i'm not sure exactly how clocks work in backgammon

At Bristol Backgammon http://www.bristol-backgammon.org/ we started using clocks after Ian Tarr, our TD, was suddenly faced with having to use one for the first time in the most important match of his life, the final of the British Open in 2007 (which he went on to lose). We play a series of monthly Clock Tournaments. For a 7 point match, the clock is set up so that each player is allowed 14 minutes total match allowance with a 12 second delay per move. Only one pair of dice is used. The clock has either a rocker switch or stop buttons on either side. Play is commenced with the clock paused as each player rolls one die, to determine who is to move first. The clock is then started, so that time is counting down against the opening player, who then has 12 seconds in which to make their move. Having moved, or offered the cube, they set the other side of the clock running, which as in a chess clock, stops their side and starts their opponent's. Only if you takes longer than 12 seconds to make your move does your 14 minute match allowance get reduced. At the end of a game, the clock is again paused, while the board is reset. Play may also be paused mid-game for corrections or discussions about illegal moves. It takes a while to get used to not picking up the dice to signify the completion of your move but hitting the clock.

Since we started using clocks in late 2007, only one player has lost a match by being timed out on this time allowance, at which point their clock makes a beeping noise. Typically, there are many minutes left unused. 12 seconds is usually more than enough time to pick up the dice, roll, move and hit the clock. If you need to take longer, because the position is complex or a cube decision is difficult, then the match allowance starts ticking away. This is alarming at first. I suspect that some rash decisions are sometimes made as a result, though fewer now, as we get used to the discipline. It helps to do one's pip counting on your opponent's time, as far as possible.

We also sometimes play a blitz version, 5 point matches with just 2 minutes match allowance and a 10 second delay. This is a much less relaxed affair, which personally I do not enjoy much, as it adds too much stress to what is, after all, supposed to be fun.

[garp_02]

Would it be possible to incorporate such a timer into Fibs? Maybe with a slightly longer time allowance per move.

I know it happens on many other online sites and certainly cuts down on the very slow or those who wish to use 'assistance'.

I'm not sure whether with the seemingly erratic behaviour of the FIBS server, it wuold be possible though.

garp

[garp_02]

There's another painfully slow one - that's ermolam and ako - maybe a new thread is in order to name and shame.

Unfortunately, the painfully slow seem to be more the rule than the exception

[sixty_something]

great reply, stiefnu .. rather than split off your post completely, i started another topic, Backgammon clocks .. there i quoted the clock related portions of this thread rather than see a potentally good discussion on clocks get lost under an irrelevant name

so, if you are going to reply about clock issues in live tournament play, or potentially here at FIBS, please consider replying to the Backgammon clocks thread above

[Tom]

in league play, assuming you're in FLG, the only time constraints are finishing your matches before the last day of league play .. there is currently no provision in on-line play that i am aware of for awarding a match when one player, for whatever reasons, plays much slower than the other -- maybe there should be, but just think of the controversies that would create .. a slow match just happens from time to time in on-line play .. so, your only recourse, garp, is to air your disgruntlement as you did or just pick your opponents very carefully .. of course, in league play you have little choice in who you must play

It could be possible some day if I ever get the Round Robin tourney type implemented that FLG matches could be monitored and reported by tourneybot.

The idea is that tbot could watch for match starts that match FLG matches and then ask the players to both confirm it is a FLG match and then clocks and reporting could be enabled.

tom