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Future Of Quotebot And Jokebot

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Offline tryout

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Future Of Quotebot And Jokebot
« on: September 25, 2005, 07:41:34 PM »
Hi Fibsters,

you'll probably know QuoteBot and JokeBot by now. Some detest one or both of them, but as much as these may not want to believe it, there are also quite some who like them. At least it looks like it. And a majority seems to be rather indifferent about the topic. To me it was certainly fun to provoke some reactions, either way.

I had heard a few people mentioning the idea of a jokebot in shouts over the last months. Some weeks ago I thought, why not?, let's go for the fun. It only took a couple of minutes to write QuoteBot. That it became a quotebot was rather coincidental. Quotes were just the first thing I stumbled across. After some weeks I extended the code slightly for multiple lines, which you know as JokeBot. The bots log in each every hour, one at the full hour the other at half past.

Now I'd like to ask around whether these bots are too much a pain, and what should happen with them.

Here are some pros and cons:

Both bots are apparently not BG related. On the other hand hardly anything in FIBS shouts is BG related. One can equally well go to lengthy discussions about what has a higher/worse quality - the quotes or jokes or the filth spewed by some shouters.
Some regard it as spamming. I do understand this argument. However, it's very easy to gag anyone on FIBS (with JavaFIBS it's even easier: see the help for perma-gag/villains list). You won't see anything of the bots at least as long as you're logged in; with the perma-gag forever.
Some actually like to read now and then a quote or joke. Not too few have said so in shouts. The quality of the quotes and jokes may be criticised, though. But the content has been compiled by humans, due to the English language presumably mostly by people with English as their native tongue. Note that the jokes got actually rated (by humans) and the bot selects only the top 30%. (Imagine ;))

Also, having seen some reactions by now, I think it's a good cause to contemplate whether or how much you value FIBS shouts. Some people persist on the free nature of shouts. Does this apply to bots, too? Why? Why not?

So what future shall the bots have?

I'd be prepared to dump them.

They could serve other content, too. Think of a "TourneyAnnounceBot", which would even be BG and FIBS related. Or a "NewsBot", or whatever.

Since at least some people like them, the bots could be kept running. Perhaps at longer intervals. I reckon that, if you like them and don't want them to be shut off, you'll need to voice your preference. The contra-fraction will likely be loud. ;)

I'm curious for your thoughtful opinions and arguments.


 
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« on: September 25, 2005, 07:41:34 PM »

Offline webrunner

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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2005, 09:41:29 PM »
I like the idea, but then again... i have shouts off most of the time.
You should prolly have a quotes or jokes database to which users can submit their quotes/jokes. We could set that up here, but the submissions would have to be moderated for obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 01:46:23 PM by socksey »
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Offline inim

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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2005, 12:24:57 AM »
I don't like any bot which is non BG related on fibs. Here are some arguments.

First, techically speaking you can connect any information feed to fibs in a 50 line script. So why do it? We got RSS and other push channels for that. Feeding information (jokes, news, advertisements, quotes, you name it) to fibs just because it can be done easily is a bad idea. It is spam. Period.

Secondly, fibs has a limited amount of login slots ("show max"). If everybody runs bots at will, they are used up. That much on "you can gag it". I don't wanna gag it, i don't want it to exist.

Thirdly, I propose a poll on this issue in parallel to this discussion. Would one of the bot guys (juggler, tryout) please set up one?

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Offline diane

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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2005, 03:06:17 AM »
Overall , I dont mind them too much - in quiet periods - like when bonehead used to shout - it livens things up.  When things get hectic - a stupid row over nothing - it is nice to have a distraction.  What I do kind of object to - is the same as with bonehead - they interrupt tourney shouts - so - could they be 'taught' to respect tourney times - and say have a couple of hours off around Fridays3, MiniMatches and Bago - the three definite scheduled tourneys?  There may also be adamosads championship thingy - but I am not quite sure when that happens.  The jist being - we know when some tourneys are held - could the airtime be freed for those?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 11:25:22 AM by diane »
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2005, 03:06:17 AM »

Offline tryout

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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2005, 02:57:18 PM »
Thanks for your opinions so far.

Quote
You should prolly have a quotes or jokes database to which users can submit their quotes/jokes. We could set that up here, but the submissions would have to be moderated for obvious reasons.
I certainly wouldn't want to moderate submissions (on what, btw, sexual explicity, offense, low quality, style?). This is just asking for trouble, especially on FIBS. The databases exist and are rather big, 11000 jokes and 37000 quotes. Since they are selected completely at random new entries will have a very hard time to show up.
As I mentioned already, the jokes are actually rated by people. The bot takes only jokes which are rated above 8 out of 10.

Quote
Overall , I dont mind them too much - in quiet periods - like when bonehead used to shout - it livens things up. [..] What I do kind of object to - is the same as with bonehead - they interrupt tourney shouts - so - could they be 'taught' to respect tourney times - and say have a couple of hours off around Fridays3, MiniMatches and Bago - the three definite scheduled tourneys?
This should be possible. Shall this cover the starting periods of tournaments and some time before or also until they are over? Usually it's getting quiet when a tournament is half an hour in progress. It would be nice if the TDs could provide me with detailed times.

Quote
First, techically speaking you can connect any information feed to fibs in a 50 line script. So why do it? We got RSS and other push channels for that. Feeding information (jokes, news, advertisements, quotes, you name it) to fibs just because it can be done easily is a bad idea. It is spam. Period.
Yes, I know that as long as it's text based it can be brought to FIBS. I also understand the spam argument to some extend. But I think that the question is whether it's tolerable. It's too easy to shove it in the spam corner and denounce it. Quite some people seem to like it, so there is a benefit. On the other hand those that hate it can rather easily do something against it -- simply gag it, with JavaFIBS and perhaps other programs, too, forever. No more spam, even if you call it like this. It compares better to a newsletter than to spam. Granted, opt out only.

I'd also like to point out again the option to announce FIBS tournaments with the bots. What about this content? What do the TDs say about this?

Quote
Secondly, fibs has a limited amount of login slots ("show max"). If everybody runs bots at will, they are used up.
Your limited resource argument doesn't have any ground. There's one bot at a time logged in, not many, and for merely about 2 - 5 seconds. This doesn't take away anything from anybody.
Also, are you sure that "show max" really shows the maximum possible logins, or just what has been reached so far? Even if there was a limit, if it had been reached neither the bot could log in. So I don't see any point.

If you're concerned about wasted resoures on FIBS, do something about droppers, users with multiple nicks and more things. E.g., there's a control user for one bot, which logs in and out and checks every 5 minutes whether the bot is still logged in and alive.
Last but not least, shouts surely take up resources, too. ;) And I think e.g. you are shouting more per day than these 2 bots together. Not that I'd mind it. As opposed to others your shouts are perfectly bearable.

Regarding the poll I prefer to have a discussion and talk about arguments. Polls on FB haven't really proven to be, uhm, reliable. Well, I guess that's the fate of most online votings.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 01:53:18 PM by socksey »
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Offline webrunner

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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2005, 07:45:25 PM »
You would have to moderate if any spam is posted f.i.
 
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2005, 08:03:38 PM »
Quote
You would have to moderate if any spam is posted f.i.
You're of course correct that submissions couldn't pass unmoderated. But since I don't see me doing this job, I gave reasons why new entries aren't necessary. Least problems.  B)

 
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2005, 08:20:12 PM »
Well, I usually do not listen too much to shouts. IMHO inims spam-argument does not count that much, as most of the shouts are spam already  :P

If there would be a poll pro / con Quote-/JokeBot I would abstain.

But the idea of installing a TourneyAnnounceBot sound great to me  :yes:  This Bot could either shout the upcoming tourneys and/or could be asked induvidually by players. TDs would get permission to feed the bot with their events.

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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2005, 08:20:12 PM »

Offline diane

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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2005, 02:49:21 AM »
Well, I will just speak for the tourneys I am involved in at all , so - if they could be off from say, 1400 - 1600 (UTC)  on fridays (this changes when daylight saving kicks in and it is 1500 - 1700) - that should cover the shouting of the final etc. For Bago, the times are:
Every Sunday 11:00 GMT
Every Tuesday 20:00 GMT (From the last Sunday in March To the last Sunday in October)
Every Tuesday 21:00 GMT (From the last Sunday in October To the last Sunday in March)
Registration starts 30 mins before - so if they could go off for that - since there is a lot of activity for bago - collecting countries etc, and allow 1 hour for the major activity, that would be splendid.

As for the bots shouting tourneys - for sure - this would be very nice - on the day of an event - shouting perhaps every hour rather than at 30 min intervals.  I would expect to see an improvement in player numbers fom this, and that cant be bad. :yes:  
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Offline socksey

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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2005, 05:29:01 AM »
Since I have my own joke list that I send out and a lot that I get, I have heard most of the jokes, but once in a while I have a chuckle from one I may not have seen.  

I'm a big quote fan so I love the quotes.

I guess you could say I don't object and I don't mind them in the middle of my tourneys either.  I've learned how to ignore what I don't like in shouts either by mentally turning them off or by putting them on my villians list.  It took me a few years to get to javafibs so this could be done nicely to include shouts.  

It has been my habit to show up an hour or more before Mini-Matches and shout when it starts every 15 minutes.  So, it would be nice if a bot did that for me.   ;)

Viva la bots!   ^_^

socksey



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Offline Mookie

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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2005, 06:55:06 PM »
I was thinking it might be great if Socksey created a eroticlitbot which would randomly shout statements off the erotic page she endorsed several months ago.  That could become very confusing.

mookie
 

Offline dorbel

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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2005, 07:03:35 PM »
It's mildly amusing to have a JokeBot run by a German of course. When I worked at the Comedy Store we had a week of German comedians under the Banner of "You Only Win On Penalties". They went around asking everybody why this was thought to be amusing as "We have a very good football team". The audiences were utterly mystified by the German stand-ups and the experiment was not repeated.
 

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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2005, 07:03:35 PM »

Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2005, 07:22:35 PM »
Quote
It's mildly amusing to have a JokeBot run by a German of course.... [snip]
You had some traumatic events with some Germans, hadn't you? Poor you  :P


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Offline diane

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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2005, 07:36:13 PM »
Quote
  The audiences were utterly mystified by the German stand-ups and the experiment was not repeated.
I can imagine german humour possibly struggling at the comedy store - where expectations are, shall we say, a little different from that - but they have a great sense of humour.  One strong area is wordplay - which I find particularly appealing - course it all needs explaining to me...  :rolleyes: what this word means and where it comes from - and what it is like that makes the joke - etc - but when I get there - it IS funny  :D
My German tutor asked me to bring back a copy of this magazine when I was there, and although it may not appeal to all - what I could follow was funny -  Titanic
« Last Edit: September 27, 2005, 07:38:33 PM by diane »
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2005, 07:49:56 PM »
Quote
... - but they have a great sense of humour.  ...
Thanks diane, I knew I can count on you!    :yes:


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Offline tryout

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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2005, 03:18:21 PM »
I've implemented that the bots respect the tournaments and shut up for those times. Yesterday's Bago had already shouts to itself until 21 UTC, well, except for the countless directly human produced lines. The bots will stay away Tuesdays from 19:30 till 21 UTC (accounted for DST), Wednesdays from 16:30 till 19 UTC, Fridays from 14 till 16 UTC (accounted for DST), and Sundays from 10:30 till 12 UTC. If any TD would like to change this, just drop me a note.

The Titanic magazine is great. You should also have a look at the Eulenspiegel!

And I'm sure that in the archives of either magazine (Titanic archive is for free) there must certainly be buried articles about how exactly foreigners take loving care of their prejudices about (in this case) Germans.  :lol:

 
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2005, 03:18:21 PM »

Offline socksey

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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2005, 12:25:30 AM »
Quote
That could become very confusing.

Explain please, mookie.  Exactly what is confusing about eroticism?   :P   I thought I taught you all I know!   ;)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2005, 12:26:24 AM by socksey »

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2005, 01:14:00 AM »
Just count the human shouts in this real world javafibs log. See my spam point?

Quote
ihr waves goodbye.
ihr waves goodbye again.
JokeBot shouts: You are so fat, I put a quarter up your butt and you spat out a Little Debbie cake.
oeleo waves goodbye.
oeleo waves goodbye again.
mgnu_expert shouts: Looks like jule dropped me! Would someone else like to play?
You shout: ban them bots from shout!
Slipshod shouts: inim<----true author of I Robot
Cheba waves goodbye.
Cheba waves goodbye again.
mgnu_advanced shouts: Looks like bobscafe dropped me! Would someone else like to play?

inim
 
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Offline Hardy_whv

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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2005, 09:09:17 PM »
Quote
Just count the human shouts in this real world javafibs log.
Quote
... 11 lines of FIBS shout ...
See my spam point?

Not yet inim. I don't think your little probe shows any sign of statistical relevance. I actually feel more spammed by those "xyz waves goodbye" and "xyz waves goodbye again".

Hardy  :rolleyes:


P.S.: Please don't feel forced to post some 1000 lines of shouts to prove statistical relevance  :lol:
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Offline vegasvic

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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2005, 03:12:54 AM »
Inim is Right it is spam the point being if a human tells a joke its within a converstation . This bot comes out of the blue not relating to Jack Sh____! Joke is funny when it is in context to somethign said in shouts , not just some freakin list you find ,
Imin is so right what next you are going to list the frankfurt stock exchange for us tryout ?



 

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