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Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"

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Offline sixty_something

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Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
« on: January 05, 2009, 06:58:08 PM »

Brennan's Restaurant in old New Orleans
"From 1841 to 1891, the mansion [in the heart of the French Quarter]
had been owned by the Morphy family, with Paul Morphy,
the celebrated chessplayer and unofficial world chess champion,
living there until his death in 1884."
Automatic Bloody Marys

At Brennan's, a grand old restaurant in New Orleans, Bloody Marys on Sunday mornings are almost automatic .. beginning this Sunday, the second week of Bloody Mary Season III, the "Sunday Special" tournament will be going automatic .. Automatic Bloody Marys -- no place but FIBS, but then only at Brennan's can you enjoy Eggs Benedict and sip Bloody Marys with the ghost of Paul Morphy

Why Change?

the move to automatic is necessitated by upcoming conflicts in my schedule on Sundays .. while i won't be disappearing, i will be around FIBS less frequently, particularly on weekends .. finding a sub is always a challenge and repeatedly setting up the same tourney format each week becomes a bore after a few months and is always open to error .. an automatic tourney solves and removes those problems .. hopefully, there will be no changes apparent to our regular players

i suggested to Tom and socksey that we use this thread to introduce and describe how a tourney is set up as an automatic .. as players, TD's, and developers, i'm sure we'll all have questions, suggestions, and even a few complaints as the season evolves using these new automatic tourneys .. so, for now, here is how the next Bloody Mary is currently set up -- i have highlighted several issues that need further discussion and clarification:

Quote
sixty_something: tourney 2740
TourneyBot: Displaying information about Tourney 2740:
TourneyBot: |2740: [single] Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"| |Mon, 05 Jan 09 12:24 UTC| |Directors: sixty_something socksey adrian manxcat adz spielberg| |Status: Being created|
TourneyBot: Min players: 4 Max players: 32 Registered players: [not yet open for registration]
TourneyBot: Match length: 3 Match length finals: 5
TourneyBot: Player Seeding: Random
TourneyBot: Registered Players:
TourneyBot: Limits: Rating: minimum 1400, maximum: (no limit); Experience: minimum 1000, maximum (no limit); Reputation: minimum 50000, maximum (no limit)
TourneyBot: Description: This is a weekly tournament scheduled each Sunday at 1600 UTC (10 AM Texas time or CST). The weekly tourney is a single elimination event - if you lose, you're out, if you win, you advance to the next round. The winner of the tournament is the winner of the last round. Weekly winners become eligible for the Bloody Mary Season Championship (BMSC). A Bloody Mary championship season consists of 32 tournaments. Winners of two or more weekly tourneys will receive two invites to the BMSC. Additional wins entitle players to first round byes *** PREVIOUS CHAMPIONS: Season I (2007-2008) -- pck ; Season II (2008-2009) -- ? ? ? *** For current season results, winners from previous seasons, and additional information about this tourney and more see posts at FIBSboard -- www.fibsboard.com

TourneyBot: Tourney Start Time 01/05/09 12:24:35
TourneyBot: Tourney Next SPAM Time 01/05/09 12:24:35
TourneyBot: Duration of SPAM 20 minutes
TourneyBot: Registration open to Anyone
TourneyBot: Done displaying information on Tourney 2740.

    TourneyBot Issues:

    • Tourney Type: SINGLE -- Tom, the TourneyBot admin and active developer, has suggested it be created as a tourney type SINGLE rather than BRACKET as an automatic tourney .. i suspect SINGLE is the same as BRACKET, but includes Tom's many recent improvements
    • Directors: the list above reflects trusted regular Bloody Mary players and experienced TDs who are empowered to issue TourneyBot commands during any weekly Bloody Mary tourney, if necessary .. since the tourney will be opened and started each week automatically, their role is limited to possible interventions and decisions that may be necessary before or during registration and play .. this may not ever be necessary, but seems like a good idea at the moment, as my schedule is now such that i will not be able to assure when i will be able to host the tourney or play .. the principle ways i see Director intervention taking place are in use of the ALLOW and AWARD commands
    • Seeding: this is a new feature of TourneyBot .. i have chosen to use Random seeding for Bloody Marys merely because that is the way we have consistently played it since starting .. i may change that to seeding by rating which will reward players with higher ratings with first round byes when available .. however, i like the idea of underdogs having an equal chance at a bye .. so, for the remainder of Season III, i will leave the seeding as random
    • Limits: since its beginning, the Bloody Mary tournaments have had the highest limits of regularly scheduled tourneys for registration .. while a 1400 rating is the same used in socksey's long running Mini-Matches, the most controversial issue is the rather high threshhold i have set for experience, 1000 games, and RepBot reputation, 50000 .. my justification for this is twofold .. i think experienced players at FIBS should be acknowledged and given the benefit of having a tourney in which they can play and be assured of playing against players with good experience and reputation .. while 50K may seem high for reputation, my goal is to raise it even further to 100K .. my logic is not to exclude players or create a Bloody Mary clique (other than at Brennan's in NOLA), but rather to provide visible benefits and recognition for players with a good Rep .. in so doing, a secondary goal is to actively encourage responsible and consistent RepBot usage .. whether or not that goal works will be difficult to determine, but since gradually increasing Rep and Exp limits to there current levels there has only been one player unable to meet these limits due to a Rep of about 20K .. since his Rep is now 47K, that will soon no longer be a problem and somewhat demonstrates how the limit policy is encouraging RepBot use

      additionally, a new TourneyBot feature, ALLOW, now enables any TD to allow any player not meeting registration limits to register .. so, with ALLOW, now any player not meeting registration limits may be "approved" with a simple command to TourneyBot by a registered Director of the tourney .. i soon hope to see even FIBS perennial bad boy, NIHolympic, enjoying Bloody Marys with us on Sundays
    • START time: the TourneyBot admin, Tom, will have to help out by setting this .. the time will, as in the past, be 10 AM Texas time, CST in the USA -- except for a few weeks around the daylight savings time that is 1600 UTC
    • SPAM settings: again clarification is needed on how this works
    • CLOCKS: timers on starting play and disconnections are also handled automatically, but i recall Tom saying a TD might soon be able to override even that which in some circumstances might be necessary and useful .. so, clocks will be an area to observe carefully when playing
    • Other: i am sure there are other issues that will come up .. please feel free to post any questions and concerns here

    so, welcome to the world of Automatic Bloody Marys :thumbsup2:
    :s40:[/list]
    « Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 06:01:55 AM by sixty_something »
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    Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « on: January 05, 2009, 06:58:08 PM »

    Offline socksey

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 08:20:56 PM »
    Quote
    while a 1400 rating is the same used in socksey's long running Mini-Matches

    I use 1200 for my minimum rating on Mini-Matches.

    Quote
    timers on starting play and disconnections are also handled automatically, but i recall Tom saying a TD might soon be able to override even that which in some circumstances might be necessary and useful .. so, clocks will be an area to observe carefully when playing

    As far as I know, the clocks used by TourneyBot rely on Fibs time which is not always correct, so an overriding feature would be very welcome and I would be willing to put Mini-Matches on automatic in that case.   ;)

    socksey



    46 years, of solitaire.  To win or loose, I did not care.  The lessons learned, along the way, were not to miss, that one important play. - unknown




    « Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 12:27:36 PM by socksey »

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 08:20:56 PM »

    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 02:21:32 AM »
    If the TD tells tbot

    ALLOW <tn> player1 player2 player3...

    It will allow those player(s) to register no matter the limits set

    DISALLOW <tn> player1    removes them

    RESETCLOCK player tourney <tn>

    Will clear a player's clock to 0 - USE THIS SPARINGLY and typically use it for BOTH players of a match

    Also sixty will get an email log of the tourney (basically all the messages Tbot shouts/tells for the tourney)

    Oh YES! Remind me to move this to the right time when DST changes again!

    tom

    Offline sixty_something

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 01:04:59 AM »
    we had our first automatic Bloody Mary today and it came off smoothly, IMO .. attached is a copy of the TourneyBot Report Log i received immediately after the match .. i like the way the time, albeit it in UTC(not Texas time), appears for each entry

    the only confusion occurred  in Round 1 when a couple of players went on the clock and several players complained of the TourneyBot TELLs about other players clock issues .. adrain had connection problems shortly after registering and was not logged in when play began .. thus, his first match couldn't start on time .. for some reason the first "On the clock" message received seemed to be late in coming .. here are the messages relevant to that clock incident

    Quote from: TourneyBot Report Log
    16:00:16 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2746) has opened for registration! Type 'tell TourneyBot tourney 2746' for details. Register with 'tell TourneyBot register 2746'. ***

    16:20:18 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2746) has just been started! ***
    16:20:18 *** Tourney 2746: Round 1 (3 pts): rockfish (1768) vs adrian (1690) winner plays karmakat (1542) ...

    16:20:18 rockfish: T2746R1M2 (3-pt): rockfish (1768) vs. adrian (1690)
    16:20:18 adrian: T2746R1M2 (3-pt): rockfish (1768) vs. adrian (1690)

    16:22:54 rockfish: rockfish  on clock at 16:22, clock used 00:00 (Logged Out)

    16:23:07 rockfish: It appears you are in Tourney 2746 and should be playing T2746R1M2 (3-pt): rockfish (1768) vs. adrian (1690)

    16:28:24 adrian: It appears you are in Tourney 2746 and should be playing T2746R1M2 (3-pt): rockfish (1768) vs. adrian (1690)

    16:29:21 rockfish: rockfish off clock at 16:29, clock used 06:26
    16:29:21 adrian: adrian off clock at 16:29, clock used 04:02

    16:42:13 adrian: You won your match against rockfish in Round 1 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2746).
    16:42:13 rockfish: You lost your match against adrian in Round 1 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2746).

    the TourneyBot clock used today was actually a 7 minute clock, even though the tourney rule states matches will be awarded after 5 minutes .. even though adrian was offline when the tourney started, it is curious to note that his opponent, rockfish, seems to have been dangerously close to using the full 7:00 at 06:26 compared to adrian at 04:02 .. i may be reading that incorrectly, but it is nice to see what is going on nad would be better to understand it .. also, note that no "On the clock" message was ever sent to adrian since he was offline

    regardless, since adrian didn't log on until after 16:27, according to my unofficial tournament clock on my VCR,  it appears rockfish should have been awarded the match on time by TourneyBot .. i briefly considered doing that myself when rockfish made me aware of the situation at 16:27 on my VCR, but adrian logged in soon thereafter and started play promptly .. additionally, the rule i use is 5 minutes after a delay is first reported in a TELL
     :rules:in the future, despite TourneyBot being the official clock, if a match is not started within 5 minutes after the TD is advised of a delay due to a player not being logged in or not responding, that match is subject to being awarded by the TD to the player making the report .. it is important to note that during play, neither the time clock nor time stamps on TourneyBot messages are available to the TD .. regardless, a Bloody Mary TD may, with just cause, still AWARD a match when necessary after a 5 minute time period after failure to start a match is reported .. it is up to each TD to use whatever clock is available to make such calls .. finally, a TD may also extend the time at his or her discretion when connection problems with a reliable player, such as adrian are suspected .. time extentions to the eTourneyBot clock may also be made by a TD, as Tom has explained below

    finally, the full description of Tourney #2746 appears below as it was created using TourneyBot's automatic scheduling feature

    Quote from: TourneyBot chat window
    sixty_something: tourney 2746
    TourneyBot: Displaying information about Tourney 2746:
    TourneyBot: |2746: [single] Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"| |Sun, 11 Jan 09 18:26 UTC| |Directors: sixty_something socksey adrian manxcat adz spielberg| |Status: Completed|
    TourneyBot: Min players: 4 Max players: 32 Registered players: 22 (tourney completed)
    TourneyBot: Match length: 3 Match length finals: 5
    TourneyBot: Player Seeding: Random
    TourneyBot: Registered Players: RickrInSF, jackdaddy, adrian, cassandra, erdbeere, Trilli, pck, Picasso, pilogen, sweets, stog, rollingfool, johnwayne, sixty_something, supermane, rockfish, socksey, karmakat, rossa, sunray, Miccimalou, WiFi
    TourneyBot: Limits: Rating: minimum 1400, maximum: (no limit); Experience: minimum 1000, maximum (no limit); Reputation: minimum 50000, maximum (no limit)
    TourneyBot: Description: This is a standard single elimination tourney. If you lose, you're out, if you win, you advance to the next round. The winner of the tournament is the winner of the last round.
    TourneyBot: Tourney Start Time 01/11/09 16:20:16
    TourneyBot: Tourney Next SPAM Time 01/11/09 18:28:26 <<< ??? - Tom, what does this mean?
    TourneyBot: Duration of SPAM 20 minutes
    TourneyBot: Match Report email address <email addy for TD>
    TourneyBot: Registration open to Anyone
    TourneyBot: Player Clock  00:07  timed out players will forefit
    TourneyBot: Done displaying information on Tourney 2746.

    all things considered, i am still quite happy with our first Automatic Bloody Mary, but wonder whether TourneyBot can provide vodka next time ;)
    « Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 01:19:08 AM by sixty_something »
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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 01:04:59 AM »

    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 12:15:10 PM »
    I am glad things went well.

    TourneyBot: Tourney Next SPAM Time 01/11/09 18:28:26 <<< Huh? - Tom, what does this mean?

    It is an internal timer of when tbot is gong to check things out, when spamming the tourney that is when it spams,
    I think it is also used to check clocks etc

    The clock handling may need some fine tuning (careful fine tuning)

    I have tbot wait 5 mins at the start of a tourney before clocks are checked, and I have the clock set to 7 mins because
    the bot is always on time that a little extra time gives the TD a little freedom...

    tom

    Offline sixty_something

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 04:05:35 PM »
    I am glad things went well.

    TourneyBot: Tourney Next SPAM Time 01/11/09 18:28:26 <<< Huh? - Tom, what does this mean?

    It is an internal timer of when tbot is gong to check things out, when spamming the tourney that is when it spams, I think it is also used to check clocks etc

    The clock handling may need some fine tuning (careful fine tuning)

    yes, it went very well  :thumbsup2: for me, it was a first time run using the automatic feature .. it went far better than expected, IMHO - so, nice job, Mister TBot

    the clock is funky .. frankly, when i've observed idle times and most FIBS server time functions .. there seems to be no consistency, even accuracy .. the report log time-stamps really helps to see what is going on, but is only available after the fact .. a nice new feature would be a constantly updated URL making it available to TD's during a tourney

    regarding spam, what is the time interval? IMO, it should be on starting, 5 and 10 minutes after start, then every 3 minutes until 4 minutes from the start .. at that time, every minute until the start with a LAST CALL at one minute, and LAST LAST CALL at 30 seconds with a 20 second buffer before actually starting .. if with fine tuning you can pull that off, it would be great

    additionally, regarding spam, preregistration spam would be nice, too .. for example, at 3, 2, and 1 hour before start, then two at 15 minutes intervals, 2 at 10, and one 5 minutes before start

    I have tbot wait 5 mins at the start of a tourney before clocks are checked, and I have the clock set to 7 mins because the bot is always on time that a little extra time gives the TD a little freedom...

    from my experience, most awards due to time are in round 1 matches .. further, it seems when a round 1 match gets delayed, it often delays the entire tourney, especially when it is a first round pairing in which the winner plays a third player before the winner of that match advances to round 2 .. so, if any change for Round 1, i'd opt for a shorter, not longer, time fuse .. a hard 5 minute clock on round 1 would be fine with me .. i agree with your logic of 7 minute clocks for subsequent rounds

    while rushing is no fun, waiting for a match is a pain in the arse and a killer for TD's as we must relieve the frustration of the player waiting, try to chase down the tardy player, become mindful of a clock, and, if necessary, make an AWARD which always seems to take longer than expected .. when a TD is playing or involved with other tourney issues such as another players confusion about whom to play, this becomes chaotic fast .. worse, such events tend to effect far more players than one might think .. thus, first round matches awarded by a hard 5-minute timer would really be a big help and further encourage players to be ready and start promptly when a tourney begins .. additionally, by taking it out of the TD's hands enforcement would be fair, prompt, and predictable - such discipline even works in a high school classroom and is generally appreciated by all

    :applaus: thanks again for the great work you're doing in supporting TourneyBot, amigo .. while i doubt there are many, for those of you who think there isn't much to do as an admin of key FIBS features such as TourneyBot, RepBotNG, OogaBot, FIBS-O-NACCI, FibsLeague, and Team League, not to mention all Patti does as FIBS admin, these little details are but the tip of an iceberg of suggestions i've shared with Tom since he began hosting TourneyBot .. as a former programmer, i am also aware that these fine tuning adjustments can often require much more work than expected, sometimes even requiring major rewrites of complex code sections .. so, don't expect these changes implemented by next week - i certainly don't

    the week after will be fine  :laugh4:
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    Offline sixty_something

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 06:31:57 PM »
    Tom, another question is about making changes to the tourney format such that they will be implemented in the next scheduled tourney .. can TD's do that by making changes to Tourney #2740 at anytime before the tourney is launched?

    if it requires going through you each time, can we continue to use #2740 as our standard mask or should that tourney be deleted?

    for example, i'd like to test the various seeding options by selecting a different one each week for the first few weeks of the season .. i may also need to change the registration limits from time to time .. my intent remains to increase the Rep limit to 100K once all this is stable and all co-TD's are familiar with using the ALLOW command to enable a TD to let even a rank beginner to register
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    Offline socksey

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 10:51:00 PM »
    Quote
    i may also need to change the registration limits from time to time .. my intent remains to increase the Rep limit to 100K once all this is stable and all co-TD's are familiar with using the ALLOW command to enable a TD to let even a rank beginner to register

    Why have limits if you're going to make exceptions?  Isn't this a bit unfair to some who may not have the wherewithall to ask the TD to make an exception for them?

    socksey



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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 10:51:00 PM »

    Offline sixty_something

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 03:23:36 AM »
    in brief, yes, no, and maybe

    remember, my original intent in setting high registration limits was not and is not to exclude players .. the intent is to reward and promote responsible RepBotNG use .. despite much concern over high limits the average attendance at Bloody Marys remains high, at 20+ .. before i embarked on raising the limits i carefully examined the Rep and Exp levels of several randomly selected Bloody Mary tourneys (since i've always had 1400 as a Ratings limit, that was not worth checking) .. the result of my study of nearly 100 players (before i began gradually increasing the limits) was that very few did not meet the Rep=50K and Exp=1000 limits .. so few, my conclusion was it would seldom be a problem .. since setting those limits only two players have expressed not being able to register .. one now has a Rep > 50K and the other switched to a nick which qualified .. thus, i remain unconcerned and hopeful my original intent is working

    regarding exceptions, there are always exceptions .. for example, i am actively trying to get players i know in the Houston Backgammon Club to play at FIBS and will soon be extending invitations for them to join us for Bloody Marys .. for an extreme example, if a rank newbie joins minutes before registration opens a TD can ALLOW them to join with Exp=0 and Rep=0 .. of course, i'd prefer they know the interface, but would welcome anyone, even a stranger to register and play .. the benefit of the ALLOW command is it enables the TD a degree of control over registration heretofore not available with TourneyBot

    regarding wherewithall, like we used to say about oil wells -- if you don't have one, :s38: get one

    most folks who can read shouts will see me now using spam during registration like i did last Sunday at least twice, *** If you don't meet the registration limits for the Bloody Mary (Tourney #2746) and would like to play, please send me a Tell  *** .. if someone feels excluded and fails the wherewithall test, i don't feel as if i have been exclusive at all

    that's my story and i'm sticking to it, for now -- onward thru the fog, shizen bloogen
    :s40:
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    Offline socksey

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 12:55:50 AM »
    In the famous words of Joe Pesci's character, Tom Atkins, from the old Rockford Files series, "oK, oK, oK!"   :lol:

    socksey



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    « Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 01:04:08 AM by socksey »

    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 12:13:23 PM »
    if it requires going through you each time, can we continue to use #2740 as our standard mask or should that tourney be deleted?

    Yes we can continue to use 2740 as a template.

    I have been thinking of making a way to move these templates to tourney numbers from 1-10 or maybe even < 100

    I may have to change the way the schedule is stored to allow the TD to make running changes without me.

    (tom goes off into programmer land, and everyone's eyes glaze over)
    Code: [Select]
    If I use T#'s 1-99 to store the tourney templates then I can make the schedule
    MON 1630 run tourney 5
    TUE  1530 run tourney 7
    SUN 1600 run tourney 40
    etc

    I could even add a flag the TD can set to skip that tourney all together, to skip a week with out getting me involved
    (tom comes back)

    So yes I think there are things we can do to make it easier for you

    Tom

    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 12:24:30 PM »
    the clock is funky .. frankly, when i've observed idle times and most FIBS server time functions .. there seems to be no consistency, even accuracy .. the report log time-stamps really helps to see what is going on, but is only available after the fact .. a nice new feature would be a constantly updated URL making it available to TD's during a tourney

    How about a command that TELLS you the last N (default 10) lines of the log?
    I might (someday) be able to send the log to your favorite IM interface...

    regarding spam, what is the time interval? IMO, it should be on starting, 5 and 10 minutes after start, then every 3 minutes until 4 minutes from the start .. at that time, every minute until the start with a LAST CALL at one minute, and LAST LAST CALL at 30 seconds with a 20 second buffer before actually starting .. if with fine tuning you can pull that off, it would be great

    additionally, regarding spam, preregistration spam would be nice, too .. for example, at 3, 2, and 1 hour before start, then two at 15 minutes intervals, 2 at 10, and one 5 minutes before start

    The SPAM is sent out every 5 mins, then a 2 min warning, so you want me to add a 1 min and 30 sec waring?

    from my experience, most awards due to time are in round 1 matches .. further, it seems when a round 1 match gets delayed, it often delays the entire tourney, especially when it is a first round pairing in which the winner plays a third player before the winner of that match advances to round 2 .. so, if any change for Round 1, i'd opt for a shorter, not longer, time fuse .. a hard 5 minute clock on round 1 would be fine with me .. i agree with your logic of 7 minute clocks for subsequent rounds

    while rushing is no fun, waiting for a match is a pain in the arse and a killer for TD's as we must relieve the frustration of the player waiting, try to chase down the tardy player, become mindful of a clock, and, if necessary, make an AWARD which always seems to take longer than expected .. when a TD is playing or involved with other tourney issues such as another players confusion about whom to play, this becomes chaotic fast .. worse, such events tend to effect far more players than one might think .. thus, first round matches awarded by a hard 5-minute timer would really be a big help and further encourage players to be ready and start promptly when a tourney begins .. additionally, by taking it out of the TD's hands enforcement would be fair, prompt, and predictable - such discipline even works in a high school classroom and is generally appreciated by all

    Maybe I should remove the 5 mins delay in evaluating the clocks or make it 1 min, that would get the clocks started quicker.
    I want some sort of delay because it would be silly to announce the pairs and then put *everyone* on the clock.

    :applaus: thanks again for the great work you're doing in supporting TourneyBot, amigo .. while i doubt there are many, for those of you who think there isn't much to do as an admin of key FIBS features such as TourneyBot, RepBotNG, OogaBot, FIBS-O-NACCI, FibsLeague, and Team League, not to mention all Patti does as FIBS admin, these little details are but the tip of an iceberg of suggestions i've shared with Tom since he began hosting TourneyBot .. as a former programmer, i am also aware that these fine tuning adjustments can often require much more work than expected, sometimes even requiring major rewrites of complex code sections .. so, don't expect these changes implemented by next week - i certainly don't

    the week after will be fine  :laugh4:

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 12:24:30 PM »

    Offline adrian

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 02:04:37 PM »
    Yes we can continue to use 2740 as a template.

    (tom goes off into programmer land, and everyone's eyes glaze over)
    Code: [Select]
    If I use T#'s 1-99 to store the tourney templates then I can make the schedule
    MON 1630 run tourney 5
    TUE  1530 run tourney 7
    SUN 1600 run tourney 40
    etc

    I could even add a flag the TD can set to skip that tourney all together, to skip a week with out getting me involved
    (tom comes back)

    So yes I think there are things we can do to make it easier for you

    Tom

     :thumbsup2:  Thanks Tom !
    Helping people is tricky. Give help to anyone and he will remember it only when he is in need again.

    Offline socksey

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #13 on: January 18, 2009, 01:55:05 PM »
    Everything is looking great for TB here, except, have we addressed the problem of the opening and starting time being real time?   :mellow:  The Fibs clock is not always right.   :ohmy:  How can we compensate for that?   :unsure:  That has been my main beef with the auto tourney setup.  I did not like my tourney starting before real time start time.   :(

    socksey




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    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #14 on: January 18, 2009, 02:11:30 PM »
    Everything is looking great for TB here, except, have we addressed the problem of the opening and starting time being real time?   :mellow:  The Fibs clock is not always right.   :ohmy:  How can we compensate for that?   :unsure:  That has been my main beef with the auto tourney setup.  I did not like my tourney starting before real time start time.   :(

    I am open to suggestions.

    In other leagues we found that if starting time were relaxed then we'd be starting 5-15 mins late and player would be upset if we started
    5 mins late this week and last week we started 15mins late...

    How far off does the clock get?

    Maybe the right answer is to get the fibs clock fixed

    tom

    Offline socksey

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 04:54:43 PM »
    Quote
    How far off does the clock get?

    Maybe the right answer is to get the fibs clock fixed

    A couple of minutes is all I've noticed, but that is enough, and getting it fixed would be Patti's domain.  I'm not sure she will help.   :unsure:

    socksey



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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 04:54:43 PM »

    Offline Tom

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 09:53:17 PM »
    A couple of minutes is all I've noticed, but that is enough, and getting it fixed would be Patti's domain.  I'm not sure she will help.   :unsure:

    I talked to her, she will help, there are some more pressing issues right now.

    tom

    Offline sixty_something

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    Re: Automatic Tournaments: Bloody Mary "Sunday Special"
    « Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 03:40:40 PM »
    our second automatic Bloody Mary last Sunday (18-Jan) ran smoothly, but two players matches were forfeited due to the clock .. as the log excerpts below show one was properly awarded .. there was confusion and protest about the result, but once a round is forfeited there is no going back .. the times in the log excerpt indicate the forfeit was correctly awarded .. no one likes to lose by a forfeit, but when delays occur due to connection problems or whatever the whole tourney is held up for one player .. obviously, that isn't a good situation either

    attached is a copy of the complete TourneyBot Report Log which i receive immediately after the match .. in it each TELL and SHOUT issued by TourneyBot is recorded and timestamped .. the time is UTC and appears for each entry .. below is an excerpt from the complete log with entries relevant to the forfeited matches and opening for registration, official start, and end of the tournament

    Quote
    16:00:25 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) has opened for registration! Type 'tell TourneyBot tourney 2754' for details. Register with 'tell TourneyBot register 2754'. ***

    16:05:25 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) will start at 16:20UTC (in 14 minutes) Type 'tell TourneyBot tourney 2754' for details. Register with 'tell TourneyBot register 2754'. ***

    16:10:25 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) will start at 16:20UTC (in 9 minutes) Type 'tell TourneyBot tourney 2754' for details. Register with 'tell TourneyBot register 2754'. ***

    16:15:26 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) will start at 16:20UTC (in 4 minutes) Type 'tell TourneyBot tourney 2754' for details. Register with 'tell TourneyBot register 2754'. ***

    16:20:26 *** Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) has just been started! ***

    16:50:07 rossa: rossa  on clock at 16:50, clock used 00:00 (Left Match)
    16:50:09 abi: logged out
    16:50:09 abi: abi  on clock at 16:50, clock used 00:00 (Logged Out)
    16:50:33 abi: It appears you are in Tourney 2754 and should be playing T2754R2M3 (3-pt): rossa (1481) vs. abi (1623)
    16:50:44 rossa: logged out
    16:50:55 rossa: It appears you are in Tourney 2754 and should be playing T2754R2M3 (3-pt): rossa (1481) vs. abi (1623)
    16:51:10 rossa: rossa off clock at 16:51, clock used 01:02
    16:51:10 abi: abi off clock at 16:51, clock used 01:00

    17:21:23 dorbel: logged out
    17:21:23 dorbel: dorbel  on clock at 17:21, clock used 00:00 (Logged Out)
    17:27:50 dorbel: It appears you are in Tourney 2754 and should be playing T2754R3M4 (3-pt): dorbel (1838) vs. cassandra (1597)
    17:28:35 *** TIMEOUT dorbel in Tourney 2754 ***
    17:28:35 cassandra: You won your match against dorbel in Round 3 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    17:28:35 dorbel: You lost your match against cassandra in Round 3 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).

    here is where the confusion began .. dorbel was having connection problems and logged out at 17:21:23 as documented above .. tourney rules state that players have 5 minutes from the time the TD is advised to resume play .. since cassandra did not advise me, i did not start a clock when dorbel logged off .. however, TourneyBot started a 7 minute clock immediately .. unfortunately, dorbel successfully logged back in at 17:27:50 (06:17 after logout), but did not resume play with cassandra within the next 45 seconds which was all the time remaining on the 7 minute clock .. TourneyBot awarded the match to cassandra at 17:28:35 (07:12 clock time)

    dorbel protested the clock call, but was advised by me that i could not override the awarded match .. unfortunately, he and cassandra continued to play their match .. the correct procedure here would have been for cassandra to finish that saved game after the tourney and to begin play with kristoffer, ASAP .. however, since cassandra was playing, TourneyBot apparently did not put the players on the clock immediately .. after continued dialog and in TELLs with dorbel who was very frustrated, i was asked by kristoffer who he should be playing .. i said very clearly to follow the TourneyBot pairings in a TELL and in a SHOUT .. at some point kristoffer asked me about the clock, probably after 17:34:35 below .. i issued a TourneyBot command to reset his clock, not cassandra's clock since she was still in her match with dorbel  .. before i could advise cassandra to stop play with dorbel and begin the match with kristoffer, TourneyBot awarded their scheduled match to kristoffer at 17:43:36 .. since this was a full 15 minutes after their match announcement was made at 17:28:35 below, it was a fair call

    however, since TourneyBot did not apparently advise cassandra that she was on the clock, i'm sure she may have been confused and surprised by losing the match on time .. my apologies if that was the case, cass, but i hope my explanation clarifies the situation .. Tom will be advised of this very unique situation and will no doubt make adjustments to the timing algorithm for future events

    Quote
    17:28:35 kristoffer: T2754R4M2 (3-pt): kristoffer (1852) vs. cassandra (1597)
    17:28:35 cassandra: You have advanced to Round 4 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754). Your next match: T2754R4M2 (3-pt): kristoffer (1852) vs. cassandra (1597).
    17:28:35 dorbel: You have been eliminated from Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754). Better luck next time!
    17:28:35 Round 3 (3 pts): rossa (1481) vs hotdice (1490) winner plays blitzxz (1897), Round 4 (3 pts): kristoffer (1852) vs cassandra (1597)

    17:34:35 kristoffer: kristoffer  on clock at 17:34, clock used 00:00 (Did not Start Match)
    17:36:27 *** Round 3 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) has been completed! Current Standings: Round 4 (3 pts): blitzxz (1897) vs rossa (1481), kristoffer (1852) vs cassandra (1597) ***

    17:43:36 *** TIMEOUT cassandra in Tourney 2754 ***
    17:43:36 kristoffer: You won your match against cassandra in Round 4 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    17:43:36 cassandra: You lost your match against kristoffer in Round 4 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    17:43:36 kristoffer: You have advanced to Round 5 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    17:43:36 cassandra: You have been eliminated from Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754). Better luck next time!

    17:46:57 *** Round 4 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754) has been completed! Current Standings: Round 5 (5 pts): rossa (1481) vs kristoffer (1852) ***
    17:46:57 kristoffer: T2754R5M1 (5-pt): rossa (1481) vs. kristoffer (1852)
    T2754R5M1 (5-pt): rossa (1481) vs. kristoffer (1852).
    17:46:57 Round 5 (5 pts): rossa (1481) vs kristoffer (1852)


    18:09:57 *** Congratulations to kristoffer, who wins Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754)! ***
    18:09:57 kristoffer: You won your match against rossa in Round 5 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    18:09:57 rossa: You lost your match against kristoffer in Round 5 of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).
    18:09:57 kristoffer: You are the winner of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754)! Congratulations!
    18:09:57 rossa: Congratulations, you are the Runner-Up of Bloody Mary "Sunday Special" (Tourney #2754).


    finally, it is important for all Bloody Mary players to understand that all matches must be started or resumed within a 5 minute time frame .. the 5 minute clock is manual and started only after i have been advised in a TELL and have acknowledged same .. that is the long standing rule for Bloody Mary tourneys and most other tourneys run at FIBS .. what is NEW with this automatic format is the TourneyBot clock which uses a 7 minute clock to award a match will start automatically when one or both players have not begun a match

    TourneyBot's clock is deadly accurate as demonstrated above with dorbel's timeout and cannot be overridden by the TD once awarded .. cassandra's timeout demonstrates some additional work needs to be done on advising players about when a clock is started, but this was a very unique situation .. regardless, the win awarded to kristoffer after 15 minutes waiting for cassandra to start play was quite fair, IMHO, as was dorbel's forfeit

    thanks to all for playing .. i will continue to update everyone with weekly posts here to confirm the new automatic feature is working successfully and correctly .. so far, so good
    « Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 10:35:37 PM by sixty_something »
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