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New droppers

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Offline robthablob

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New droppers
« on: August 26, 2009, 11:57:17 PM »
Hi,

User jcr after dropping a match (not sure whether just to avoid losing) persistently refuses to resume. Maybe one to add to the drop-list?
New user russekz similarly dropped a match just as it became unlikely to be a win - maybe one to watch.

Rob

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New droppers
« on: August 26, 2009, 11:57:17 PM »

Offline robthablob

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 06:46:31 PM »
Add to that joesoluk - as a new player I gave him benefit of the doubt first time, but...

1. Attempting to start a new game with me without resuming a saved game.
2. Dropping the same game again as soon as he/she realised it was unwinnable on resume.

Forewarned is forearmed.

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 06:46:31 PM »

Offline adrian

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 08:10:29 PM »
Hey Rob !

1. If you use Javafibs, there is a nice feature , Villains list, a list that may be filled by you with the players who dropped you, were rude during the chat or simply were too lucky for your taste  ;) (or any combination of the above)
2. In Javafibs you can see the software used by players. I suggest to avoid Odesys and IPhone users. Mostly the Odesys ones. Player zbilbo may help you if you try to use his bot called whofibsvillains.
3. Use the show savedcount <playername>     command to see the number of the unfinished matches of a player and act accordingly. Or better make two programmable buttons for it (only in in Javafibs) : show savedcount <inviter> and show saved count <player>. 

I hope this was helpful. do a search for the term dropper on fibsboard, you will learn (maybe) more that way.
Helping people is tricky. Give help to anyone and he will remember it only when he is in need again.

Offline rebcalale

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 05:13:32 PM »
I personally do not drop but the only smart players on FIBS are droppers.  Why would anyone not drop when u have a "FIBS" (which is synonymous with highly improbable, more like impossible) chance of winning?  Do players enjoy beating others because of the ridiculous rolls commonly seen on Fibs that blatantly favor one player over another.  Is this good sportsmanship? NO its not!!!!!!  Not surprisingly, do the stats and u will see that ranked players r more often than not the recipient of unusually favorable rolls.   Guess what (again do the stats and/or use GNU) this has nothing to do with ranked players making better moves.  It has everything to do with fibs dice being absurdly improbable.  I once saw one of the Fibs apologists offer some reward if anyone could prove cheating and or that Fibs dice were not legit.  Well the same goes for the opposite position, I'd like to see someone prove that fibs dice r legit rather than simply say they r.  Doubt I will ever see it and I'm betting it's because it is impossible to prove something that is false.

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 05:13:32 PM »

Offline socksey

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 07:04:14 PM »
I'm sure someone of your vast experience on Fibs (892 as I post) can authoritatively make these assumptions!   :laugh:

We have some of the best backgammon players in the world playing on Fibs and most of them do not agree with what you have said.   :)  Stick around a few years, and then decide.   :dry:

socksey



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Offline rebcalale

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 08:13:08 PM »
As always another sad response from a FIbs apologist. "we" what ever that means, do not have any of the best players in the world.  What Fibds does have is a sad collection of misfits who take pleasure in the absurd rolls of FIbs dice.

Offline Yvon

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 08:20:31 PM »
Actually THERE IS a way to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the dice at FIBS is neutral.
Playing through password protected  file containing the rolls. The file been emailed to both players before the start of the match, the password been emailed ONLY after the game is finished. WINRAR is known to  produced such password protected files, even the author of WINRAR states he cannot open a file unless he knows the password.
I suggested this some time ago.... the answer i got was "it's difficult".

Well...

Here's one experiment you can do to check FIBS dice:
Use 2 different clients. Login to Fibs with 2 different nicks. With each of your client watch a different matches. Record the dice when rolls appear either simulltaneously or say max 0.5sec from each other.
See anything strange? :yes:
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 08:30:28 PM by Yvon »

Offline dorbel

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 08:57:12 PM »
Actually Fibs does have a number of very strong players who are quite happy to play on fibs. if I found myself drawn anywhere in the world in a bracket that included dlevy, kitwoolsey, mamabear, gumpi, runnerup, mws, melzi, weaky, Zagloba, _Z-, gnomystwo, gandp, sita, c_ray or roderick, to name but few, I would expect to see some world class play, because these are world class, or at the very least expert players. They are well known in the bg world under their real names and this is by no means a complete list, or anything like it.
These are people who know and who are known. Who are rebcalale and Yvon?

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 08:57:12 PM »

Offline ah_clem

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2010, 09:38:37 PM »
robthablob,

Being dropped is very frustrating, and when I was first starting out on Fibs I encountered a lot of droppers.  But as adrian points out, avoiding the droppers is not that difficult.  My personal policy is:

1) Don't play phone users. (odesys as client)

2) Don't play anyone with more than 10 saved matches unless I know them

3) Don't play anyone with a negative RepBot rating

4) Think carefully before playing someone with less than 1000 experience points.  (I'll play someone with less, but only if their repbot and saved count looks good.)

I rarely get dropped anymore. 

Offline ah_clem

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2010, 09:39:58 PM »

These are people who know and who are known. Who are rebcalale and Yvon?

Don't really know Yvon yet, but rebcale is just your everyday dice whiner.  But you knew that.  (c:

Offline Yvon

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 09:44:09 PM »
Actually Fibs does have a number of very strong players who are quite happy to play on fibs. if I found myself drawn anywhere in the world in a bracket that included dlevy, kitwoolsey, mamabear, gumpi, runnerup, mws, melzi, weaky, Zagloba, _Z-, gnomystwo, gandp, sita, c_ray or roderick, to name but few, I would expect to see some world class play, because these are world class, or at the very least expert players. They are well known in the bg world under their real names and this is by no means a complete list, or anything like it.
These are people who know and who are known. Who are rebcalale and Yvon?

I am nobody dorbel. Just someone who has higher rating than you on Fibs AND SUSPECTS Fibs dice equally as the newbie above.

Offline dorbel

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 09:46:34 PM »
Anonymity is a useful cloak, from behind which anybody can assert anything. Even if you do have a higher rating than mine, it doesn't necessarily mean that you know what you are talking about, particulalry if you equate a high rating on fibs with knowing the game!

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 09:46:34 PM »

Offline diane

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 09:49:59 PM »
I am nobody dorbel. Just someone who has higher rating than you on Fibs AND SUSPECTS Fibs dice equally as the newbie above.

You dont play as Yvon...what is your nick?  Are you really rated higher than 1929?

How much experience do you have playing live matches with precision dice under tournament conditions?

I don't accept any comments on dice until someone has  spent about 2 years playing live with good players...because then you will really have seen crazy rolls...with your dice, on your board, rolled by your hand...fibs starts to look very normal after you have done that.
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Offline Yvon

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2010, 10:29:56 PM »
Of course I don't play as Yvon. Yvon was my daughter's email, that she abandoned, and just used it myself to register here. I am actually on and off from Fibs, backgammon is just one of my hobbies, i consider it a rather easy game to be on top, (compared with chess that i dealt with in the past), i ve been playing BG from childhood, i have a few thousands experience at fibs, and I use 2 different nicks one playing bots, and one humans.My highest rating a bit less than 2000 is the one i play bots.

Now if dorbel thinks I am lying so be it i don't care.I don't think he ever managed to cause the bots to disappear/be removed for maintainance for more than 2 weeks like i did last year..... I don't use BG to make money, I never use computers to analyse my games, i never read a book on bg. I just use it bg for pleasure and excitement.

Any further questions Diane?

And yes i dare say I suspect the dice at FIBS, and i tell you something:Most top players don't dare say it because the are afraid of their reputation. Ask them what they think when playing with bots for example. Damn you REALLY think the bots have the ABILITY to play better than the best HUMAN? Are you really serious??

Then explain me how ALL bots on fibs are rated higher than the best human...

Offline jackdaddy

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2010, 03:30:05 AM »
East yvon. The bots are programmed to play flawlessly (with the exception of the blunderbots). Now, I'm a bit curious as to why you won't reveal your FIBS nick. My guess is because you aren't all you claim to be.

Offline dorbel

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2010, 07:08:54 AM »
Bots don't play perfectly, but bots based on Gnu do play better than any human, which is why on fibs their rating is higher than any human who plays without cheating or manipulation. Note too that they are dropped several times a day, without which they would all be higher than they are.
How can we tell that they play better than humans? Ask any of the world's greatest players who they would choose as a doubles partner. If allowed a choice of a bot, they would all choose one over any real person, falafel, nack or grandell included.
The person who caused the gbots to be taken off is commonly known as geissenpeter, a saboteur who achieves his aims by using bots. One way or another, this makes you a liar and your opinions worthless.

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2010, 07:08:54 AM »

Offline Yvon

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2010, 07:29:15 AM »
East yvon. The bots are programmed to play flawlessly (with the exception of the blunderbots). Now, I'm a bit curious as to why you won't reveal your FIBS nick. My guess is because you aren't all you claim to be.

You guessed wrong! As far as I can see from my log I only played you once. Here's the result:

"Done.
You win the game and get 4 points. Congratulations!
You win the 7 point match 8-4 ."

Now guess who "you" is. :laugh:

Offline Yvon

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2010, 08:35:56 AM »
Bots don't play perfectly, but bots based on Gnu do play better than any human, which is why on fibs their rating is higher than any human who plays without cheating or manipulation. Note too that they are dropped several times a day, without which they would all be higher than they are.
How can we tell that they play better than humans? Ask any of the world's greatest players who they would choose as a doubles partner. If allowed a choice of a bot, they would all choose one over any real person, falafel, nack or grandell included.
The person who caused the gbots to be taken off is commonly known as geissenpeter, a saboteur who achieves his aims by using bots. One way or another, this makes you a liar and your opinions worthless.

Too bad calling me a liar and stuff... At a time that I alllll...most started respecting you dorbel.Well I am not geissenpeter if that's important for you. Why don't you  all  just stop and listen carefully for a moment. I 've seen many people complaining about the dice at FIBS. Most of them newbies and most of them on on wrong grounds. In fact when I personally first complained in this forum they called me newbie, and the fact was, I was a newbie then, so i had no defence. Now I have, and I have hard evidence that I can use any time I wish. It's like holding the cube if you like :laugh: So for the moment I will just continue "holding the cube" without revealing my nicks at fibs...

The SUSPICION though about the dice at FIBS is still there and THERE IS NO WAY to remove it unless the runners of FIBS convince us otherwise by providing evidence that goes beyond any reasonable  doubt. I already proposed one way to do it perhaps there are other ways, i don't know. Such assurances that the rolls come directly from Fibs server, or watch the rolls getting generated through Telnet etc etc cannot convince me.

I know very well how the bots play. Yes they play at top level so we agree on that. What I disagree with you, is your absolute conviction that they generally play better than the BEST human players.
I keep my reservations.




Offline diane

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2010, 09:47:03 AM »
Of course I don't play as Yvon.

Of course?  Why of course?

You were asked to use the same nick here as you do on fibs when you registered, why would I naturally think that you didn't do that?

Then explain me how ALL bots on fibs are rated higher than the best human...

Because they don't play equally skilled players all day, they are predominantly playing weaker players, and therefore win more often.  Obviously if they played with you exclusively and were still rated 2000+, they would have to be cheating  ;)


And since you are now playing some other game than backgammon, I have lost interest.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 09:57:50 AM by diane »
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Offline dorbel

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Re: New droppers
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 10:13:23 AM »
I lose interest too.

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