FIBS Board backgammon forum

Backgammon => Fibsboard Forum Matches => FFM2 => Topic started by: diane on October 25, 2009, 08:33:05 AM

Poll
Question: Move?
Option 1: 6/4*, 5/4 votes: 8
Option 2: 6/5, 6/4* votes: 1
Option 3: 8/5 votes: 0
Option 4: 13/11, 6/5 votes: 0
Title: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: diane on October 25, 2009, 08:33:05 AM
Forum, blue, to move 2-1, hopefully this will be quite interesting - even though it is seemingly very simple.

bBu3AATQ58EBMA:8AmlACAAIAAA
Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: diane on October 25, 2009, 08:36:27 AM
Spoiler
When I saw the roll, I wanted to play 6/5, 6/4*, and I voted for that.  Then out of the corner of my eye, I got a quick look at rkbs homeboard and wimped right out...6/4*, 5/4 for me in the end - but I am not sure it is the right thing  ;)
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Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: diane on October 25, 2009, 03:12:00 PM
It is looking pretty much unanimous, I might move it along this evening - I wonder if Adrian had time to vote yet?  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: adrian on October 25, 2009, 08:01:44 PM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yes , I did had the time and I voted too. As stiefnu said in an earlier post about OLMatches, he also found the poll locked even tho it was supposed to be open! Maybe stog will looup this problem of locked topics. I think it was a forum software issue (but I am no connoisseur, so don't take it for granted).
Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: ah_clem on October 25, 2009, 10:00:45 PM
Spoiler

Hitting is mandatory.  The question is whether to point on his head or make the 5 point and hit loose on the four.  

We're very likely to be looking at an ace point game, so timing is an important consideration here.  The  problem is, I don't know how to apply timing here.  We'd like more timing (ie further behind in the race so our board doesn't crunch), but facing a four point board means it's likely that we'll wind up with too much timing if we get hit.

So, since timing considerations doesn't really help me make the decision, I'll observe that we're behind, gammons don't count, so take a bigger risk. Make the 5 and slot the four. 6/5, 6/4*.
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Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: ah_clem on October 25, 2009, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: diane on October 25, 2009, 03:12:00 PM
It is looking pretty much unanimous, I might move it along this evening ...

As I'm massively outvoted, I'd concur that moving it along is the way to go.

However,  I would like to ask someone who voted for the winning move to provide some reasoning behind it - it may be obvious to everyone else, but it's not obvious to me.


Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: diane on October 25, 2009, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: ah_clem on October 25, 2009, 10:44:15 PMHowever,  I would like to ask someone who voted for the winning move to provide some reasoning behind it - it may be obvious to everyone else, but it's not obvious to me.

I gave my reasons....not as comprehensive as you would like I am sure - but that is one scary board  :unsure: :unsure:

It will have to wait until morning to be moved on though now, so maybe more reasons will come  ;)
Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: diane on October 26, 2009, 07:04:42 AM
Quote from: ah_clem on October 25, 2009, 10:44:15 PMAs I'm massively outvoted, I'd concur that moving it along is the way to go.

Now that we have moved on, I am sure you are right - a rollout will tell us..but knowing what we know now, I am so glad we didnt make the better move  ;)   :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Game 6, move 6 : Forum 2-1
Post by: ah_clem on October 26, 2009, 11:40:49 AM
rollout

Spoiler


The riskier play is the way to go here. Playing it safe  is a .057 error.

Of course, the rollout tells us nothing about the timing considerations...





    1. Rollout          6/5 6/4*                     Eq.:  -0.428
       0.308 0.055 0.005 - 0.692 0.333 0.011 CL  -0.428 CF  -0.428
      [0.002 0.003 0.001 - 0.002 0.003 0.002 CL   0.005 CF   0.005]

    2. Rollout          6/4* 5/4                     Eq.:  -0.485 ( -0.057)
       0.277 0.064 0.006 - 0.723 0.262 0.011 CL  -0.485 CF  -0.485
      [0.002 0.003 0.001 - 0.002 0.003 0.001 CL   0.005 CF   0.005]
        Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
        1296 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 868989065 and
quasi-random dice
        Play: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
        Cube: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]



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