FIBS Board backgammon forum

Backgammon => Fibsboard Forum Matches => FFM4 => Topic started by: ah_clem on January 13, 2010, 02:59:17 PM

Poll
Question: Another cube decision
Option 1: Yes, let's do it votes: 4
Option 2: Nope, let's not votes: 2
Title: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: ah_clem on January 13, 2010, 02:59:17 PM
Again, I'm recusing myself from the cube decision.  
Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: ah_clem on January 14, 2010, 03:34:33 AM
Ok, just because I've recused myself doesn't mean that nobody's allowed to say anything.  We've got a split decision - who wants to make a case for their choice?

This might be like playing a chouette with the Marx brothers, but does everybody have to channel Harpo?
Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: stog on January 14, 2010, 03:57:21 AM
Spoiler
beep beep!we got a chequer on the bar and a blot, and unless we have a very strong board, position & lead, tis not the time for shipping cubes methinks. i can only assume blitzxz's relatives have been voting!!
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Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: dorbel on January 14, 2010, 07:38:48 AM
Quoteunless we have a very strong board, position & lead, tis not the time for shipping cubes methinks.

Erm, actually stog we do have a 15 pip lead (equivalent to nearly two full rolls), a stronger board and a better position. Sixes make our bar, most fives and fours hit loose and even our worst non-dancing numbers, probably 2-1 and 3-1, are playable. If we dance, we won't be facing a recube for a good while yet. I've changed my vote. It's reasonable to wait, but I think this is probably a low end double for us.
Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: stog on January 14, 2010, 10:56:08 AM
i stand corrected :)
Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: diane on January 14, 2010, 11:02:39 AM
And I was right first time  ;)
Spoiler
For the reasons dorbel has stated better than me, we have a lead, a better board and great potential. This is one where we can sneak a cube that will be taken, wait one or two rolls - and he wont touch it with a barge pole...
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Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: stog on January 14, 2010, 12:09:05 PM
Spoiler
we is the brothers marx beep beep :)
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Title: Re: Game 2 Move 4 Forum Double?
Post by: ah_clem on January 15, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
rollout

Spoiler


We got this one right. 

The way I look at it (using my best post-hoc 20-20 hindsight) is that we have an advantage in the position (better board - he's got nothing in that dept), race (15 pips and on roll) and threats (prime/closeout).  When you have an advantage in two out of three, it's usually a double.  Here we have all three.  Double. 

Of course, if we knew he'd pass, it would have been an easier decision.  (c:




Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0.501 (Money:  +0.472)

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0.861
2. Double, pass         +1.000  ( +0.139)
3. No double            +0.714  ( -0.147)
Proper cube action: Double, take
Rollout details:
Centered 1-cube:
  0.641 0.282 0.012 - 0.359 0.097 0.007 CL  +0.501 CF  +0.714
[0.002 0.002 0.001 - 0.002 0.002 0.001 CL   0.006 CF   0.013]
Player blitzxz owns 2-cube:
  0.643 0.274 0.009 - 0.357 0.102 0.014 CL  +1.139 CF  +0.861
[0.002 0.003 0.001 - 0.002 0.003 0.002 CL   0.016 CF   0.019]
Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
1296 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 845650837 and quasi-random dice
Play: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
Cube: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]

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