FIBS Board backgammon forum

Well, blitzxz danced again with 6-3, so Forum, blue, to move 2-1 - so many possibilities!!

Hope this doesn't just split the vote to 1 vote for each move  ;)

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note: bot results of previous move discussed below.

That was always a recognised pitfall here..

the countermeasures to that are:
This thread is a discussion area - anyone can put up an argument for or against a move - and you usually do.  Maybe more need to do that.
Post move bot analysis - to allow us to see why things are a mistake, and guide.

Contributers to that:

The move towards 1 day only voting will remove opportunity for discussion [albeit there is provision to extend voting for more interesting choices, but be aware that the author of the thread can't really get too involved in that, because they have almost always seen the bot analysis.]

Delayed bot analysis [more often than not now it is being left out altogether.]

A misconception that we are doing this to beat 'Blitzxz' or any other player, or that the guest player is here to beat the Forum....we are doing this with the intention of playing the best possible game we can - and learning from it.

No matter what voting system is used there is always some sort of problems.

it isn't as simple as 'first past the post voting', as we all have ability to change our vote - depending on which arguments we are swayed by  -- this gives us the best chance to learn, and make the best move most of the time - hence the benefit of as many of us making 'spoilered' comments in the first place.....  enjoy :)

to change vote - click "remove vote" and start again -- only available until vote closes of course

In this case, we had two basic ideas - hit on the 2pt or make the bar point. The bar point theme got more votes, but those votes were split between two options, resulting in the hitting play winning the poll despite getting fewer votes than the bar-point theme.  When this happens, those favoring the less popular option of the leading theme should change their vote to support the front-runner.

It's an open question whether the moderator should extend the vote when this happens to give folks more time to change their votes.  I tend to favor that approach, but there are good reasons not to i.e. stog's observation that anyone could see it coming and change their vote, and the fact that extending the vote may precipitate a tie where there wasn't one before.

I'd say leave these calls to the discretion of the moderator, and I think Diane made a perfectly reasonable call here. 

Yes I broadly agree with these points. I didn't intend to criticise the moderator or the way in which this forum is conducted, I just thought that it was an interesting point generally. Still think we should have made the bar though!

This is getting offtopic but I got stuck to this. It's actually mathematically proven fact that it is impossible to come up with any voting system that could always combine individual preferences into preferences of the group. In every voting system (where there is more then 2 options) there remains possibility that voting leads to choice that only small minority wanted in the first place.

Ah_clem's voting tactics might have worked here if all the bar point makers really prefered the other bar point move to hitting and if everybody would really do as he suggested. But it's not immediatly clear why the minority bar point makers would want to change their move to the other bar point choice. They might just as well stick to their guns and demand that the majority bar point voters have to change their vote or nobody gets nothing (forum hits). The majority has only the same treat as the minority which doesn't make it's position any better. Best strategy would propably make some sort of long term alliances here, some sort of voting groups with promises to scratch your back if you will scratch mine. And this is just the beginning. What if there were several different "themes" with small number of votes? The problem would then be nobody even knows who prefers what and what is the winning "theme". And nobody propably wants to tell his/her real preferences, because this could affect the result of the deals between different voting groups. And somewhere in between all of this the whole cause, which is backgammon of course, was lost. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox)