FIBS Board backgammon forum

Dear guest, members and moderators,
A little while ago i put up a donation button on the board, so i woulnd't have to carry the load of all the hosting by myself. Although i recieved some generous donations, it isn't by far enough to cover even a small part of the hosting costs.

That is why i was thinking about allowing ads on Fibsboard, although it is strongly against my principles.

I want to ad a google ad (you can see one like it on my site http://www.sprintweb.com (http://www.sprintweb.com), click it please ;) ) to fibsboard on the front page and maybe even on the other pages.

Since this is your forum too i would like to have some feedback on this.

Maybe even someone knows someone that will ploace a banner here. We have quite some pageviews.

Of course.. if you change your mind and want to make a donation.. that is allright too :).

I think if you vote no you really need to donate otherwise you are making webrunner shoulder the financial burden of the website alone.

So don't be a hypocrite, either vote that you don't mind ads, or vote that you do mind them but make a donation.  Of course I am sure webrunner wouldn;t mind the ads and your donation since this is all a worthy cause!

PortWine :2drunk:  

I hope the ads are in English, please.   :wacko:

socksey




"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility, there are so few of us left." - Oscar Levant

Erm - if you vote no - you are voting for ads   :rolleyes:  

Would we get a say in which companies were allowed to place banners? (i.e. Mama Resh's Laundry Service, Nihi's Used Cars, Mookie's Shoes & Cheese Store)

QuoteWould we get a say in which companies were allowed to place banners? (i.e. Mama Resh's Laundry Service, Nihi's Used Cars, Mookie's Shoes & Cheese Store)

I'd say the more they are on topic (fibs-topic, that is) the better

:-))

Sorry, I really couldn't resist. If Resh's Laundry service wants to place payed ads...

:no:  I definitely would mind. For me a big part of FIBS is its non-commercial nature, if there were ads on FIBS I suspect I would have left years ago.

If the FIBS Board is currently too expensive then I recommend other options be considered. I'm sure other people can host the bots, perhaps other technical solutions could be found to share the bandwidth? Where are the big costs? Could archives of older messages be kept elsewhere with this site just focusing on the new topics? Can some of the snazzy graphics be cut back? After all we've survived on FIBS all these years with just plain ASCII text for shouts and chats, the graphics are fun but are they worth paying for?

The Google ads would be on topic and in english. They are matched my google who will perform a search on the board (wich they do anyway) and match appropriate ads. The other oprion is to get some BG site to advertise or a shop. I will not allow any ads for other backgammon servers though. But if i get my ads through google i can't really control what kind of ads i will get, i just get a little control.

This site is not and never will be commercial!
I am not making any money out of it and if i will aver have a spare, i will give it back to the fibs community, justy like you are doing with your t-shirts.

I don't really see the problem Alef.. why is it allright to pay for a t-shirt, but not for hosting of a board. In fact.. the company i work now is sponsoring a big part of the hosting costs, but do you see their name mentioned anywhere?

It is not about commercial goals or earning money.. it is about paying for some costs, the t-shirts weren't free right?

Anyway, i haven't decided anything and prolly will not for a long time.. but i just wanted to know where you people stand.


About the costs: it is the hosting cost wich is about. it comes with more then enough bandwidth and power, and since it is my own server diskspace isn't really a problem. It is all explained right here (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?showtopic=361&st=0&#entry2283). There you cal also see that i really am against ads.

The board already uses a 50 Megs of diskspace (that is without all the extra sites like archive, postcard, tourneybot, etc.) and it is growing quickly. Nothing to get worried about now though.

(webrunner @ May 9 2004, 01:44 AM)

QuoteApart from an increase in spead, traffic and stability i would like to donate more webspace to projects like chouettebot, the fibs companion, the fibs archive etc.

Well the FIBS archive is something I created and can happily host independently from my own webspace (I have quite a few unused gig at present). As for the burper projects he gets plenty of space through sourceforge where the projects are held. It seems to me rather odd to ask about raising revenue through advertising for other people's projects without first asking those people?

(webrunner @ May 9 2004, 01:44 AM)

QuoteThe hostingcost of the server will at least be €35,00 a month, and the server i am aiming for now is about €300,00 (it is a used one).

The server is a fixed cost and something you own long-term. As for the €35/month bandwidth, all I'm asking is are there ways to reduce this cost if donations won't cover it?

(webrunner @ May 9 2004, 01:44 AM)

QuoteApart from that i pay for the domainname now €10,00 a year. The more money i get, the better (and faster, more powerfull) server i can get. The server i descibed will at least keep us going for another year and hopefully more.

My favourite FIBS site remains FibsLeagammon which uses a freebie domain name and can at times be a bit slow and awkward, but for me has the *essence* of FIBS which is totally non-commercial.

Obviously this is your site run it however you wish, but you've asked publicly what people think of having advertising, so why all the surprise at my reply? For the t-shirts I would never have considered putting anything on them such as the printers logo or a reference to those who provided the capital. But I don't think comparing t-shirts (which obviously cost to print and post) to web space (which there's a lot of and can easily be donated) is fair. And nowhere have I suggested that you'd be making money. It's just the advertisers who profit that I personally object to.

All I'm saying is that if there are ways to keep this discussion board going without adverts that's my preference. Bigger, faster, slicker is not necessarily better, especially if you have to pay for it by seeing ads.

If everyone one else likes advertising then fine, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. The thread asks what people think so I've replied  <_<

I assume you have received a few donations today from the no people webrunner?

webrunner is being nice to ask for our opinions.  If the ads are confined to backgammon than what could be the harm?  Everybody here reads a newspaper, watches TV, or reads news on a website where there are tons of ads for things you would never buy.

Ads are not necesarily a bad thing.  I like to buy things sometimes.  Having ads for backgammon books, boards, dice, etc. would not offend me in the least.

The is just my unhumble opinion.

PW

QuoteI assume you have received a few donations today from the no people webrunner?

Actually...... no PW :(

And i do get you Alef, i really do.
But don't get the impression that anything on the internet is free. There is always someone paying for it, even Fibs.. and i still believe that Kit Woolsey uses it as an add for his online magazine. And he should!
Even Andreus wanted (and still wants prolly) big bucks for the code of Fibs..

Besides, i think most people like that fact that fibsboard is fast. They also complain when Fibs is slow...

But.. i still see your point.. and i actually agree with you partly.. as you can read in that post.. and know.. because i all started this because i hated all that spam and banners on the yahoo groups......remember?

QuoteBut don't get the impression that anything on the internet is free. There is always someone paying for it, even Fibs.. and i still believe that Kit Woolsey uses it as an add for his online magazine. And he should!
Even Andreus wanted (and still wants prolly) big bucks for the code of Fibs..

Many things on the internet are free, DailyGammon is a beautiful example, gnubg an even greater one. Yes, of course someone behind it has to donate money or time -- besides time I have happily donated money to FIBS clients, FIBS Board, FibsLeagammon, GNU foundation, Urban75 and will continue to support those online communities and projects that survive under non-commercial practices.

Kit Woolsey has funded FIBS purely out of generosity. His GammOnLine site is an even greater act of giving as it takes a lot of time, no way has it ever been anything commercial. The subscriptions to the site hardly covered anything for what he has given out of his love for the game. (BTW, GammOnLine is now free if you're already a member or $36 for life which gives access to the rich archive.) Even Bill Robertie with his books widely available is probably not making anything from it. Backgammon publishing is simply not profitable, and once you have the brains to write at their calibre there are so many far easier ways to make a good living.

As for Andreas, who knows. I think the spirit of FIBS went far beyond what he created a long, long time ago. But he's obviously kept it going and never once has there been any advertising.

Patti is the one giving the highly valuable commodity of time. Read her posts on rec.games.backgammon and you'll pretty quickly get an idea of her outlook on advertising!

Ok.. i didn't know all that about Gammonline and Kit Woolsey, i heard other stories, but i'll take your word for it. :)

In the end maybe i am just asking for more donations.. or looking for alternative ways to get it done.
For now i am sponsoring it and will keep doing that. The company i work at has generously given me a 60% discount on the hosting, without the need for their name.

I am currently thinking about some other ways. and will keep you people posted.

It is good to know though that the majority would not mind (appropriate) ads.

One banner ad per page wouldn't bother me at all. I understand that it costs money to keep this thing going. Don't feel bad about trying to find more reasonable ways of funding this site than "all out of your own pocket".

Now, pop-up ads and redirects and such would be a real pain in the butt and would not be appreciated by the general community, I am sure. But one banner ad per page is no big deal and makes sense to keep the thing going.

JJ

Once again Port - since i think this poll is slightly misleading - a NO vote is a vote FOR advertising - it is the YES people who should be donating  :D

I am for advertising if it relates to backgammon - but i expect they dont really pay for space like the non backgammon related people.  The thought of other, non related advertising on here bugs me.
I loathe it really - from football t shirts - which kids (and men) pay a huge amount of money for - then wander round advertising a whole host of products for free, to glossy crap that falls out of every magazine i want to buy, to internet sites which are slowed down beyond belief (especially on dial up) waiting for banners to load. Any advantage   gained from the improved server thingy would promptly be lost for me in waiting for adverts, as well as them detracting from the actual board content.
I would rather it went by donations - but it seems not to be happening  :(

Although I voted correctly, I see that I may be misleading people because I am reversing what the yes and no mean in my messages.

No is for ads
Yes is for no ads

It is kinda confusing the way it was phrased.  Please see my link to "who's on first" for a comparison.

PW

Quote"to internet sites which are slowed down beyond belief (especially on dial up) waiting for banners to load. "

I general, I dont mind a banner for say gammonpress, gamesgrid,gammonline or carol Joy cole. But its easy to overdue things. www.Fibs.com and fibsboard are great sites, good content and fast loading, and it should stay that way.

Check out www.blip.se ,a swedish game site which gone commercial a couple of years ago. Now it is full of pop-ups, banners made in flash and so on
Impossible to use if you have less then 1MHZ, 500Mb ram and 0,5Mbit

Regards
MND

hi ,

i voted that ads would mind me but, if it's a single banner or something very light i wouldn't mind ... i understand webrunner matter and know a solution must be found .
I will also make a donation soon ... i was only blocked by paypal which is boring me as i always forget password and all ... ( i used it only one time a few years ago !)
>> is there a way to send you a cheque ?

I'm sure if thought out and delivered as well as everything else Webrunner has given us so far, a modest use of revenue raising ads won't hurt a bit  :yes:  

Or

Perhaps set a target figure ($) for the next period and see if donations from the members can make ads unecessary or minimised. :)  I'm in !

However you decide i will abide  :thumbsup2:

Thanks for everything so far  :beerdrinkers:

Eddie.

Note that if you use mozilla, the first time you see an ad on fibsboard.com (or anywhere else), you can simply right-click on the image and choose "Block Images from this Server".

mozilla? thought that was the email, not the browser? But if so - gonna try again to get me that (since i did eventually manage to get netscape going).  Does it actually block it from loading, or just from me seeing it? If it can stop them loading, perfect solution all round  :D

mozilla is actually several projects, but the main one is a "suite" of applications just like netscape: browser, email, chat client, html-editor, addressbook...   mozilla also bundles lighter-weight email and browser as separate, which have gotten rave reviews. See mozilla.org for more.

mozilla and netscape are related btw. mozilla is the pure OSS code, and netscape is built from that, with some additional "stuff" (like an AIM client and integration with netscape.net) that make into some sort of commercial business. It's a similar relationship to openoffice.org and staroffice.

Yes, I think it blocks loading of the images, so some sites should be faster. Find servers from which only ads are loaded and block them.

I think you should just spring for a new computer and a high speed connection.

Your fancy computer and high speed connection won't help you when the page you are loading is held up by a slow server named ads.doubleclick.net
Tell me *that* doesn't piss you off.

QuoteYour fancy computer and high speed connection won't help you when the page you are loading is held up by a slow server named ads.doubleclick.net

Edit your hosts file with the line:

127.0.0.1   ads.doubleclick.net

...and you'll never see another ad from that host again, nor will you have to wait on it.

In fact, there are many ad servers that I block using this method.  I have attached my hosts file as an example, in case you want to do it too.

GB

It sounds like great advice gammboy but I am terrified of your avatar!   :cry:  

Ok - looked at it and my brain immediately shut down :wacko:  - wanna pop round and put all that on mine - seems like a great thing to do!!  

QuoteNote that if you use mozilla, the first time you see an ad on fibsboard.com (or anywhere else), you can simply right-click on the image and choose "Block Images from this Server".

Too bad that doesn't work with the text ads from Google ;)

BTW.. no support from you for this Burper, or are you starting your own forum?

About the banners:
If i am going to implement ads it will defenetaly NOT me more then one per page, or one block per page. These text Ads from Google load very quickly and are related with the pages they are shown on (most of the time).

You have my full support on putting web ads on fibsboard webrunner.
I think your mistake was asking permission from the peanut gallery.
Just do it. If your service is worth it, they will come.
Too much discussion.

Personaly i have no problems with ads on fibsboard. especially the way they appear at the moment. As long as they help fibsboard. Go ahead! But reading the title of the topic  

QuoteAds on Fibsboard.com, How to get more money.

I didn`t find any advice how i can make more money with ads here. And i could REALLY need more of it and more and more and more and ........ :katsjing:

Ramses