FIBS Board backgammon forum

II would like to start a discussion on the way some people are spoiling it for other people on FIBS.
First i want to point out the following: i am here and on FIBS for FUN, to play Backgammon and to meet interesting people, nothing else.
I think most players are on fibs for the same reason.

In this topic i mainly talk about zyxtcba but i also mean others like NIHILIST who sometimes, out of the blue, starts being rude to other people, even when those people are being positive.

Yesterday i saw zyxtcba shouting terrible faul language to Kari Grandi and others.
He was really being offensive to Kari, and i feld offended by just reading what he was shouting.
I know for a fact that there are children playing on fibs as well.
The level profanities was getting worse by the minute and i got fed up with my screen getting polluted by this guy. :puke:

So I entered the discussion asking if he for once could shut op or at least use some normal language. I really shouldn't have done this. It was just oil on the fire.
In the heat of the discussion i have said loads of stuff that might have offended other people watching. I was trying ,in his own language, to get him to stop, since everyone else already tried other things with this guy.
I truly apologize if i have offended anyone and want to set the record straight about me: i normally don't use language like that. :wacko:

The strange thing is that this guy has a good rep according to repbot. After looking with "list" i saw why: NIHILIST, Biggles, snowflakes, Mort etc.
All people who like to offend other people, using rude language and playing God because they think that a high rating gives them the right to kick around and offend anyone they like.
For now i will call these people the "kindergarden gang".   ;)

It seems to me that this gang is slowly ruining fibs for me and others.
We already lost a great player, and person by the rudeness of these people (Cyan), which is a real loss for FIBS. She is a great person and i think i speak for lots of players if i say that she is missed. She was everybody's friend.

I am really getting fed up with these characters and thus i am starting a crusade right here, right now against all the people that are spoiling fibs in my opinion.
Yesterday i almost decided that i would stop all my activities on Fibs and shut down the bots and fibsboard.
But then i figured, he got what he wanted and people who actually enjoy the board and the bots would be the victim of this.

But since i am putting a lot of time in this site and other stuff like the bots, i can at least choose for who i am spending my time.

So i will bann zyxtcba from all the mgnu bots as a first sanction.
The ban will only be withdrawn if:
1. zyxtcba stops using profound language and acts as a normal human being, with respect for others.
2. zyxtcba publicly apologizes to me, here on the board or on FIBS.

Also i would like to suggest a global ban for this guy for all TB tourneys. I know i am not a TB operator but since i run the bot i figure i can at least suggest it.

The last thing i want to ask anyone reading this and agreeing with me, to use repbot for complaining about people that are offensive to you in any way.
Repbot is not only for complaining about droppers but also for warning people about offensive players.

I am drawing the line here and will not hesitate to ban other people from the bots.
I don't want to be the fibs police but i do want this place to be fun and also safe for children. It is a free server, which attracts children. If you want a server with only adults, you should go to a payed server. And.. as i said before i like to spend time on this community but not on the people that spoil it for me and others.

A note for Trynity, who correctly stated that FIBS is depressing her : that is what i am trying to turn around.
Fibs is more and more turning into a snakepit of psychological damaged people who's life goal is it to offend other people. This keeps them from thinking about their own problems.

A note for Resh-Lakish: I know you are an allright guy deep down inside. It is too bad that you think it is cool to join the kindergarten gang and try to offend people. I liked you at first but that's all gone now. Too bad.. i thought you where one of the "good guys".

For now this is all i have to say.
I know not all of you people will agree with me. I invite everybody to discuss this here, only try to keep the language clean.
I will update the bad words filter with more words so most of them will be filtered out.

Well, I'm quite new on fibs (december last year), and I met quite some very nice and well behaved people with whom playing is outright fun (just because of the communication going on while playing). But it is definitely true that there's quite a lot of kindergarden behaviour. That's definitely a very good description going on. The shouts you  read while waiting for the next match. It's giving me the intention of a bunch of adolescents who try to impress each other with sexual "jokes" (mostly things which were around when I was starting school, more than 30 years ago) which is just *boring* and *not funny*. Some people also find it obviously just cool to make fun of beginners who ask questions (not happened to me as of now, but overheard). This makes it not a place you want to hang around.
Still, I would it consider a *major* loss if people like you, who invest quite some time, would stop contribute your most valued work or even drop out of fibs. Being that young I don't know much of the history you told me, but if people like you or people I like to play with would leave fibs, this would be the logical conclusion for me, too. Then, fibs would be just a bunch of adolescents (at least in their state of mind) hanging around, and in my oppinion this would a real loss, considering the history of fibs (I'm involved in other contributing work, in open source, so I know a bit what it means that people like you are offering for anybody here).
So yes, definitely, we should group together and try to use policy (i.e. banning) to just keep the fun in for us.

Thanks to all contributors, just to have it said! :-)

Klaus

Sadly FIBS has lost many, many, many great people besides just cyan. There is a definitely a serious problem of "bad culture" regularly dominant in the shouts.

A few of the worst offenders are clearly deeply disturbed and probably quite unpleasant in person, but I suspect that many players become more rude because of the atmosphere already there. I think I've fallen guilty of rudeness in the shouts after reading particularly racist and homophobic comments, and that definitely doesn't help the situation.

I recommend people use the gag command more, and it's helpful to others to shout that you're doing so. This is one of the worst punishments as mostly these people are trolling, desperate for attention and reactions. I once had snowflakes leaving me abusive messages for a while because I'd gagged him, clearly if he was that bothered by it then I must have done something right!

Also, if someone is particularly abusive and/or racist then I think it is worth copying the text and sending it to pattib@fibs.com. Especially if she hears from a few people she might act on it -- people do get banned from FIBS sometimes.

In my experience gagging people does not include shouting or messages. (or is that a feature of one of the fibs clients?)

Alef: I think you are a big man admitting your past mistakes. You have a good point there (that players become more rude because of the existing atmosphere) and that is exactly why i want to try to put a stop to this.

Next time he starts this kind of behaviour i will defenately mail it to Patti.

Klic: thanx 4 these kind words. You clearly understand what i am talking about.

Webrunner I COMPLETELY understand your concerns, and I agree, wholeheartedly. I just use the blind and gag feature, and forget that these people ever existed. I am not shy about removing a person from one of my tourneys that I have on the gag list.

And thats about the best we can do.

JJ

:yes:

I went through this (banning people) with Patti long ago.  She just won't ban people unless the person gets abusive with her, personally.  She will tell you to use gag command.  Period.  In only three cases in as long as I have been on Fibs, has Patti banned anyone.  In two of those cases, it was rumored the persons were abusive to Patti during a warning from her, so she has gone as far as warning, at least, on anothers account.  

None of the interfaces I have used gags in shout though.  I am told that Javafibs does.  I haven't been able to use Javafibs on either of my computers yet, in order to find out.

Many times, I have turned shouts off because they are disturbing to me.  I find this is a punishment to myself, rather than to the abuser.  I, then, cannot see good shouts as well.

In the case of zyxcha, I think he should be banned from Fibs.  He is almost always offensive to someone.  A week or so ago, he gagged me.  I didn't know he had done this until I tried to warn him that a 9 year old girl was the one he was being abusive to in shout (she had shouted to him to shut up, and called him an idiot).  LOL  I asked someone else to tell him who he was shouting at, and he did clean up his act for a short while that day.

I almost left Fibs over vqs and his abuse to me.  I see there is a double standard here.  Abusers aren't treated the same by everyone.  It seems that some TD's only ban when it is personal.  Since all TD's experience some of the same abuse, I think we should make some sort of rules for guidance.  I don't think an attack on one TD should be treated lightly by the others.  I think we should all stick together and agree on the same standards.  We need a private forum for this.  

That's what I think.   -_-  

socksey    

First, yes cyan miss me  :(
Second, yes we are all agree against those kind of behaviour
Third, I am not really disturbed from those guys and have choosen to ignore them
(It's maybe more easy for me  :rolleyes: with my poor english)

Fourth, I have met very many pleasant people on Fibs and hope to go on for long  :D  

My first comment on this topic - is please please please dont leave us webrunner - you do such good work - and I think the majority of fibs players appreciate it!!  (Give or take the new improved cheeky bots!!).

Yes - Javafibs does block out shouts from gagged players - and i use it sometimes.  It leaves you with half a conversation though - and that can be more annoying than seeing the whole thing - so is not a satisfactory arrangement - also does not help with the likes of resh - who regularly changes his nick - and you get him all over again.  It is certinly an attention seeking tool from those responsible - and as such i simply refuse to ever ever talk to these individuals - even to complain.  Like socksey - I have turned off the shouts to avoid some particularly disturbing material - but then you lose the good stuff too - found out a lot of helpful info through shouts - from good users such as Alef, and now the tourneybot uses shouts - and i dont want to miss those calls!!  Why should I have to restrict my use of this server because we have some emotionally retarded fools amongst us.  It is not enough to say there is nothing to be done - Im no computer bod - but feel sure there must be solutions - and banning all the kindergarden gang from the bots now would make em sit up - since im sure that is how they boost their all important ratings - and with repbot use - if people refuse to play they have no reason to be here (i am also in favour of a decaying rating - so they cannot sit proudly upon an impressive rating).
There are lots of little things we could do - which would make it harder to be the arrogant loud mouths they are - Biggles is a major offender - but yet is allowed to play in fibs league.  These little things should be used - with an incentive of replacing perks as rewards if their behaviour improves.  I try never to use foul language on here- and dont think i ever have in shouts - only in private chat - where i know it wont offend,  yet i have had much bad language used against me.  I am quite good at ignoring schoolground behaviour - but really really wish i didnt have to - and sometimes - as Alef mentions - the racist and homophobic stuff does upset me deeply.  I am also aware that it is highly innapropraite for the children on here at times. After a particularly upsetting afternoon in shouts where a couple of idiots - egged on by csg - were extemely offensive to santa - i had the greatest revenge.  whilst i did not comment at the time - since this simply added to their enjoyment - i had one approach me for help with java later that day - guess how much help they got !! And it was a good oppotunity to point out precisely why i would not help them.
I think this is a great site with many great people - and i look forward to meeting the people i have befreinded in person in the future - i think the site needs a little extra in the way of running to stop this persistent offending - lets do it  :)  

Burper, i have to disagree with you on this.
The passive attitude is getting us nowhere and things keep getting worse.
And as socksey and Diane pointed out.. gagging is not the solution.

I think i will start sending emails with chatlogs to Patti and try to get some reason in these guys that way. :evil:

Don't worry.. i am not gone just yet.
The positive response (on wich i anticipated) are appreciated. :)  :yes:

I am a newbie, and I noticed the shouting in question, and just figured that that WAS the culture that dominated the fibs environment. I found it pathetic but the service provided by fibs is really so good i just try to ignore it.

But u cant can u, EVERY DAY its the same racist, juvenile, sexist(not the lighter side), boring, abusive, hatefull stuff!  I was just watching them 'discuss' the jewishness of Woopi and sleeping with someones daughter in the back seat of someones car. might be fun on an adult sex board but of course totally inappropriate on this board.

Sometimes i'll see someone actually asking an appropriate question in the shout box, like how to join a tourney or something.  And they get lost in the garbage pouring out of these offenders heads. I try to throw them a lifeline when I can but its a small float in a big tide of sometimes really nasty chum.

I was amused to see burper chiming in here since he or she is often right in the middle of the action in question, like in todays chat.

I will say this, this problem is not unique to fibs. i have seen it on countless other chat areas around the web.  Non-adult oriented sites being coopted by these kids for their prurient fantasies.

I think the offenders should be cleaned out! kick em off. everytime the show up under new names kick em off. Nobody will miss them.

Yes each individual member could block them and deal with them in their own way but that won't change the culture that is projected to the public when they visit to play the occasional game.  The regulars here have evidently been accomodating this situation for a while and thats their decision.

But I must say it is a little dark in the playing parlor.

Kevins_back , the problem is that we can't kick people.
There is only one person who can do that and she hasn't shown much interest in doing so until now.
But i have to be fair and say i haven't complained to her yet. Nor, do i think, have a lot of others.

I was just playing and looked at the shouts you are referring to. I have to say that they where reasonably innocent compared to what was shouted yesterday. But then again.. maybe i am getting used to all the profound language.

I certainly hope not though.

:(  

Burper and all others.
As i said in my post, i ALMOST left. But then i thought about all the positive things.
I must say, with the losing streak i'm in right now they where hard to find ;)

But enough jokes...

Burper, i respect you and your input and motivation and all that you have done for fibs. I have been on fibs almost 10 years now (under a different name, mostly just playing and lurking), so i know what happened in the past and what it was like a long time ago.

I agree that the community is picking up and i know the important part you, MadMatt (TB)  and the fibsboard are playing in that. But i also know that there are a few people that are trying to destroy all that and that the level of profanities on fibs have never been as high as they are now.

For me it's all or nothing now. I don't want this to be a family BG server, but some level of civilisation isn't much to ask, is it?
This has nothing to do with thick skin and all that. I for one have quite a thick skin.. but this was just verbal abuse. Even in the Netherlands i could have sued someone telling me those things in real life. This is not civilized behaviour, it is just plain childish namecalling.
My first intent would not be to kick him off as you call it, but to just let him know that this is not appreciated. That is why i banned him from the bots and i still suggest a global ban for him.

But hey.. everyone can have their opinion!  <_<

I have read the posts on this topic, and, while I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am curious about a glaring omission in your list of FIBSters behaving badly.

Nowhere do I see any mention of Zorba who picks fights regularly and is as free with insults as anyone you did mention.

Obviously you are free to discuss anyone's bad behavior and deal with it in any manner you choose, but when you intentionally omit one of the worst abusers of courtesy on FIBS, it's hard to take you seriously.

I am as saddened as anyone by Cyan's departure. She's been a friend for years and I miss her presence on FIBS.


Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your reaction.

It shows character to make a response here like you did, even though we haven't exactly been friendly to one another.

I didn't intentionally leave out someone.
I just never had any bad experiences with Zorba.
And besides: there are loads other more people that are rude that i didn't mention as well. But if he does stuff like this i will surely point out to him that i (and others) don't like this.

Also i would like to point out that it is not the fight picking that i dislike, but more the language that is used doing it, the racist and homophobic remarks, etc.

I like a good discussion as the next one, but the things i am talking about aren't even discussions. You probably know what i mean.

Anyway.. i am just hoping that this will make people think before they open their shout screens and start blabbing ...

Whilst i agree Zorba does enjoy a rattling debate as much as any - and likes to retaliate to the kindergarden gang - a thing i told him i person i considered a waste of his time and energy - i have yet to see him use any obsence language, or any sexual obscenties.  Whilst his input is childish at times - it is not something i would object to a child of any age reading - and nor do i find it upsetting or disturbing.  That falls into the category 'the anarchy that is fibs' - the freedom to an opinion - and the right to state it and argue it through - it is not a mere litany of obscentities.

and now for the voice of (t)reason.

before we begin, some codes
z=zyxtcba
kg=kindergarden gang
kbg=kingdergarden gang behavior

i really enjoy listening to z. i am roflmao every time he's on. i did not agree with the global tourneybot ban and have unbanned him. i have banned him from fridays3 tourneys, as that is kari's tourney anyway, and as kari is the one who gave him the global ban.

in my opinion, until z, roscoe, or anyone does something really crappy in the tourney, what goes on in the shout room doesn't matter if they want to enter my tourney. and, i could be wrong, but in re-reading what madmatt had to say about banning, global bans are to be used only when a player after repeated tourney muckups.

and if they were to do something really crap repeatedly in my tourney, then i'd ban them from MY tourneys. i wouldn't arbitrarily decide for the whole TB TD community that that player shouldn't play in any tourney. i can't tell you how pissed i am that kari decided to do that as if i didn't have a say in the matter. how dare you decide that for me? you don't get to decide that for me. and after you had an argument with him? do you know how you sound? he called me names so i globally banned him from all tourneys? he was laughing at your decision for a reason. to my knowledge, he doesn't even play in tourneys.

for webrunner to ban him from bots. well, at first, i thought that was stupid, too, but reading all that's been written, i've changed my opinion. i think you have a perfect right to own that your work isn't going to be used for some idiot who keeps flaming you and creating a hostile environment for you.

and for everyone to be upset. well, i thought that was overwrought at first too, but reading all that's been written, i get a better picture of where you're coming from. you've been dealing with this for years, quietly employing methods that lessen the experience of fibs fun for you, and now you've just had enough.

i don't want to play fibs without diane, burper, yes, even kari. it's obvious that your care makes fibs the place i want to be. i guess i just want to be able to laugh at z and not have it hurt anyone.

so i'm glad to read burper say something about a local proxy with rooms. (btw, macfibs gags shouts. but you're right, you miss part of the experience. it's not fun.) and emailing patti seems to me to be a good idea. i mean, if 20-50 people are sending her emails about a person... hey, she could ban 20-50 people, but wouldn't it be easier to ban 1 or 2? and this still doesn't sound like it really solves the problem.

i don't know what the solution is.  

Just to add a bit to think about on this subject...

There is such a thing as verbal and emotional abuse. These people who think they are being funny or garnering attention for themselves by being abusive to other people, need to be met face to face, in real life, and be shown what it means to have ones ass kicked real good for running off at the mouth. The internet is wonderful in so many ways, but one of its drawbacks is that it allows wimpy little boys a venue to be nasty to people when they know they never could pull it off in real life.

It is sad that people behave like this when given the mask of anonymity.

And...calling people gay or making racial or ethinic slurs is never funny. People who think it is funny need to pull their heads out of their asses and see the bigger picture.

JJ

i keep going back to how i felt that first day as TD, and diane told me she tried to keep roscoe off my back and i hadn't even noticed he was talking, but i went back and read the shouts and was simply horrified. i mean the things he'd said to diane were just beyond the pale. and i keep telling myself that that's what it's like for webrunner, diane and others, that's how they feel on a minute-by-minute basis at fibs.

the thing that gets me is that roscoe is not banned from my tourneys and won't be until he does something in the tourney to muck up. hell, LILY's not banned from my tourneys. hell, nobody's banned from my tourneys (yet). so to ban someone who hasn't even played?

and i get that you want to exact consequences for behavior, i just feel like there's a less personal way to do this. creating rooms in a local proxy, talking to patti, emailing patti, suggesting decaying fibs ratings, and others, i like these because they speak directly to the behavior you want to change, they speak directly to the causes of the behavior. but a global ban on someone who never plays tourneys? i'm not getting how that's helping. and i see that it limits my fun on fibs.  

Well, I'd like to speak on behalf of all the 12 year olds that are supposed corrupted here. How else can we learn what mommy and daddy are up to when they're out and leave us in front of the computer for hours on end? I get tired of the endless beastiality sites and want to talk to someone my own age. It's kinda like staying up late and seeing what the grownups at the party are talking about, only without stealing bottles of booze from behind the bar. When I grow up I wanna be like Uncle Nihi!

I was giving half an eye to shouts on FIBS this afternoon when the amazing term, "dildiane" caught my eye.  I scrolled up, and it turns out Biggles was flaming someone named "diane" about her posts on FIBSboard.com.  I came here and checked it out.

Biggles' rants on this occasion were typical, and they make a point about shouts on FIBS:  The dog pack consists of 3-4 leaders and perhaps a dozen others.  When they are defecating with their keyboards, it doesn't matter if you object or argue.  Typically, it's a 5:1 typing contest, and in my experience, where I've had to think about what I say and they are free to excercise their sticky fingers typing the things they never dared to say in a seventh grade locker room, you are just providing entertainment for the kiddies.  Truth is something I concern myself with -- not them.

So this is what's funny or pathetic:  Biggles was whining because diane wouldn't defend herself in shouts, with Biggles' buds ready to flame her to cinders; and when I checked out this forum, I didn't see a single word from Biggles.  I'm sure this'll be fertilizer for Biggles' next tirade, so I'd ask him to quote this:  "Biggles, why don't you have the courage to respond when you don't have your backups?  Reply to diane's words on FIBSboard.com ON FIBSboard.com"!

As for the problem of shouts, if they are a problem, it has been correctly identified here that only Patti or marvin can do something about it.  marvin won't, and Patti is usually only concerned with hassles that involve her.  She doesn't want to do anything.  (But she is a bit inconsistent, and will respond in a picque with totally inconsistent actions.)   My attitude toward Patti is mixed:  Once I thought she was my friend, but she has denied certain things in conversations as if they never happened; I always respect her for her work keeping FIBS up and running; I have argued with her about some of her arbitrary actions against a few users and been punished for using facts to point out inconsistencies in her actions.

The fact is, I've been on FIBS for 12 years, it's my favorite place to play BG, and I can't leave because if I did, there'd be nobody to point out some of the egregious lies of some of the top-rated and most popular jerks there.  I have some changes I'd make, but I'm there still....

--
don

QuoteWell, I'd like to speak on behalf of all the 12 year olds that are supposed corrupted here. How else can we learn what mommy and daddy are up to when they're out and leave us in front of the computer for hours on end? I get tired of the endless beastiality sites and want to talk to someone my own age. It's kinda like staying up late and seeing what the grownups at the party are talking about, only without stealing bottles of booze from behind the bar. When I grow up I wanna be like Uncle Nihi!

Thats just fricking genius...

BTW, is spelled B-E-S-T-I-A-L-I-T-Y and I believe the phrase you were looking for is 'supposedly corrupted'

And well...I could point out errors in logic in your paragraph, but I'll spare you the trouble...

JJ

At least we know that Biggles knows of this thread, and obviously even reads (parts of) it. Short of insulting webrunner he mentioned it.
Yesterday, he was so helpful to a newbie that (s)he logged off cursing. Guess this one won't come back. (Whether it's a loss or not one cannot tell, but still, it's against the principles of any community thing, be it Fibs or something else!)
I just read parts of it afterwards, as I wasn't at the terminal when it was happening, but that boring stuff brought me to perma-gag those people. It's just not worth it (Hi Biggles, yes, that's my oppinion)

Klaus

i've been typing up comments, organizing them, and i hear the following

1.   how do we make fibs fun for everyone?
2.   how the hell does he have a good rep?
3.   how do we make fibs safe for children?
4.   how do we keep fibs from being depressing?
5.   how do we make others responsible and responsive to the community?
6.   how do we use gag/blind effectively?
7.   how do we go from defense to offense?
8.   how do we protect ourselves as TD's?
9.   how do we keep our response less personal?
10.   how do we protect ourselves without punishing ourselves?
11.   how do we change the perception that kgb is acceptable?
12.   how do we come together collectively to combat this?
13.   how do we change the culture of fibs?
14.   how do we kick people out?
15.   how do we get patti to hear us?
16.   how do we keep our focus on the positive instead of the negative?
17.   how do we decide, as a community, whose behavior warrants action/consequences?
18.   how does others' behavior make us feel?
19.   how do i feel safe to share myself with others in an environment where verbal abuse runs rampant?
20.   how do we police fairly?
21.   how do we keep consequences less personal and less punitive, yet effective?
22.   how do we get the kg to see us and treat us as people?

and i've been thinking that maybe if you're busy getting ratings, every player is an object to be used and less of a person to engage, and it's easier to flame an object than a person.

Below is a long posting I made on this topic on r.g.b over a year ago. Reading it again reminds me of how far RepBot has come, it's now pretty much accepted by everyone, but it took a long time for large numbers of people to stop moaning about it.

QuoteNewsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: 2002-11-24 04:06:01 PST

Zorba <zorba@chello.nl> wrote:
>> Freedom is great, but Bob NIHILIST Ebbeler is taking away other
>> people's freedom to play backgammon on FIBS in a friendly, non-racist
>> atmosphere.

> Oh bullshit.  I'm no fan of Bob's, but "toggle silent" is your friend.
>
> -Patti

Just because Zorba is fed up with one particular bully you're recommending
he "toggle silent" (turn off shouts/public chat) and cut himself off from
everyone else? Surely the most appropriate command here is simply "gag
[user]".

What I find most remarkable about FIBS is that despite its many years of
neglect and anarchy (in the negative sense) there remains a hardcore group
of shouters who are extremely friendly, fun and a pleasure to listen to. For
every sad dropper or bully mentioned here on r.g.b there are at least ten
others who have kept many of us from giving up on the public chats over the
years. A few names that spring to mind are cyan, mookie, socksey, Dutchie,
jasonj, webrunner, DDEEBBZZ, stacy, Tygger, MacMom...

I'm very much hoping that Andreas will either return to help improve things,
or better yet find another individual or small group he can trust to bring
new energy and enthusiasm to FIBS development.

Let me present one idea of how RepBot could provide a better service if
integrated: offer players the option to sign into filters.

"repbotfilter 0"
This would leave things just as they are now. An ideal setting for those who
love listening to absolutely anyone and who hate RepBot.

"repbotfilter 1"
This would add a gag/blind to only those who achieve the most extreme of
negative reputations, those who usually end up banned by Patti.

"repbotfilter 2"
A medium screen set at a threshold to not hear or play those who've achieved
a fairly bad rep.

"repbotfilter 3"
An option for the truly thin skinned who still want to keep the shouts on
but don't mind missing out on those who engage in, say, controversial
political debate or bad taste humour and have achieved a mildly negative
reputation.

Perhaps a further option would be setting these filters to create just gags
or blinds or both. The most controversial aspect of this system would be
choosing the default setting for new players. I'd argue for "repbotfilter 1"
since extreme droppers often prey on those with low experience.

With such options in place to automatically ignore others I would personally
want to see a complete end to all bannings. Instead I'd expect that those
deserving of a ban would simply get ignored to the point of giving up and
leaving on their own.

I'm not claiming this is a perfect system by any means, but I think
something like this would be a drastic step forward for FIBS. Constructive
criticisms are always appreciated!

By the way, I recently posted that RepBot would be adjusted to not allow
bots to votes. RepBot's current owner and programmer has decided against
this, arguing that RepBot is working fine as it is. I certainly acknowledge
that distinguishing between bots and players is a problem, and also the
attempted attack on me and others just forced more players to be aware of
RepBot. So thank you, otaku!

-Alef

Link: full thread (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=BA06710B.125B%25alefrosenbaum%40nospamthankyou.mac.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DBA06710B.125B%2525alefrosenbaum%2540nospamthankyou.mac.com%26rnum%3D1)

as of today, i have again globally banned vqs on tourneybot.  he entered my tournament today.  i forfeited his scheduled match.  as per his agreement with kari_grandi, he would be globally banned if he entered another of my tourneys or otherwise degraded me in any way.  somehow, i knew this would happen.  

i have never had an apology from him for his obnoxious behavior toward me in the first tourney he played of mine as well as in hours of shouts.  i was willing to allow him another chance for an apology.  he refused.  i am willing to lift the ban in one month, that will be 16 April 04, if there are no further insults to me, AND if there is a formal apology from him to me.  

if any tourney directors do not agree with me, you have the power to lift the global ban for your own tourneys.  please be so kind as to replace the global ban when your tourney is over, however, so that i don't have to reban or otherwise put up with a hassle every time i run a tourney.

thx...........socksey  

Reading sockseys post and regarding the list made by jinnate, I think there's no chance to make it generally a "better" place (as was already stated, that's not an universal thing, this is something everybody defines differently). But what is definitely necessary (IMHO) is some kind of defense. Those kg members are insulting people who are sacrificing their time organizing tourneys, webpages or programming and refining bots. This is something that should not go without answer. Well, if you would get some real amount of money, ok, then there would be some kind of recompensation and it would at least be open to discussion whether one has to accept that behavior or not. But in this case, it's just your free time (generously given) and we (i.e. for example me, who enjoys joining the tourneys and the mostly good atmosphere I had up to now, otherwise being a total newbie here on fibs) should be able to do something against it. If this is anything we can do, then fine, ban them from the tourneys. Not much, but at least something. Perhaps the time will come when they just can play themselves, because anybody else just refuses them. Probably then they will learn how boring they are.
And one thing I absolutely cannot understand is, why join a toruney and whine about the rules. I missed some tourneys because I thought my time at that moment was to limited, so I couldn't be there for long enough in the unlikely event :-) I reach some later round... The TD creates the tourney, the TD makes the rules. That's it.

Klaus

I am pleased about all the discussion going on here. This is exactly what i had hoped for.

Don understands what i am trying to do here.
I am proving that people like Biggles_Two and zyx don't have what it takes to have a mature discussion, where answers are based on intellect instead of fast wit.

I have heard that Biggles brought this thread up twice in less than half an hour, all by himself. This means two things:
1. he read it, but didn't post as Don pointed out already
2. It probably has him thinking, otherwise he wouldn't have brought it up.

Burper, i still disagree with your passive and defensive attitude regarding this subject. I still think that offense is the best defense and i know for a fact that this discussion is already paying off.

As for changing the community, i think we are all doing that already by posting here, raising our voice, where before everyone kept their mouth shut but thought the same things.

A note for Biggles: If you read this, you are here for at least the second time.
Please register and enter the discussion if you have the guts instead of calling me a whiner behind my back.

For your information: it is not censored here, only foul words are filtered and replaced by acceptable replacements. It should be a challenge for you to say your say without using swear words.

I just have a long talk with zyxtcba and i would like to point out that it is not him personally i'm after, although it maybe looked like that in my first post.

And for the record: I am not out to get anyone banned from FIBS!!!

I just want to make the shouting environment less hostile because i think (and this thread kind of proves that) there are a lot of people that are getting fed up with all the profanities.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, webrunner!

The profanity, explicit sexual content, and flaming in shout brings to mind as Steve Martin so aptly put it to a heckler during one of his stand-up comedy performances, "Yeah, I remember when I had MY first beer!"

socksey :P

10 months ago I found FIBS and it was a dream answer to a perinneal challenge.... living in a rural area where backgammon is known only as those stupid markings on the back of a checker board (most don't even know what it is called) and endulging a passion for backgammon was a hit and miss proposition.  

Logging in the first time, I was instantly amused, having read the log on admonition:  

"This server is on the net to meet people from all countries.  All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!  Rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice."

Almost immediately I noticed profane, racist, sexist, whatever-ist shouts in the chat room area of my FIBS interface, an amusing counterpoint to the admonition and a telling one.  Obviously the rules on behavior were not taken too seriously or enforced ("...will not be tolerated..." apparently had no teeth).

But, being fairly thick skinned, I ignored shouts and instead enjoyed the experience of playing backgammon with excellent players on a good interface with what feels like a good dice roller (I had unsubscribed at Netgammon after repeated incidents of players hacking the dice roller and some obvious cheats by the Netgammon bot program (entire player rolls ignored in favor of the bot)) and you just can't beat the price for all of this fun and connection to like minded backgammon enthusiasts world wide.

My first impression of the shouts was a reminiscence of the 70's CB radio craze, where the air waves were dominated by immature blatherings, flirtations and obscenities, all made possible by the relative anonimity of the media and lack of teeth in the regulations that were supposed to be in force.  In general, the FIBSters who spewed such pathetically immature rhetoric were acting like the kids of the 70's, giggling while they imposed their obscene little passions or hates upon an audience that lacked any means of control.  Well meaning individuals who tried to moderate the blatherings in the shouts simply found themselves the next targets of childish, low class rants and insults.  At least with CB's, well meaning individuals with amped up radios could squelch poor beahvior into oblivion.  Too bad it doesn't work that way in a chat room or in shouts.

In reading the above posts there is an essential common theme:  we really don't like or appreciate the nature of communications of some individuals, they step over the bounds of normal social propriety and courtesy, but what are we to do but throw up our hands in despair, gag-and-blind ourselves or send futile complaints to Patti.  But this is a problem that has been addressed in other internet chat vehicles where concern for the general enjoyment of the users is a paramount priority of the service.  That fix is moderators or monitors, select individuals, recognized by the service for their integrity and fairness, empowered to warn and subsenquently suspend from the service those individuals who just don't get it... that the general usership doesn't appreciate the profane, obscene, racist, xenophobic drivel that spews out of their mush for brains.  Yeah, others of the kindergarten mindset might cackle in appreciation, but the majority just find it boring, repetitive and distracting to the overall experience in inverse proportion to their ability to ignore it.  So... empowered monitors is one possible solution (since Patti chooses for her own reasons not to play this role except in the most egregious of cases).

Another possibility, this one inspired by RepBot, would be to have some minor parsing of reputation into not only the overall rep currently available, but one with more than one category.  Such categories which might include sportsmanship and FIBS courtesy.  Of course such a categorization of rep would be of limited utility as evidenced by the way that chronic droppers seem to be unaffected by repeated shouts regarding their irritating predisposition towards loss avoidance.  But it would provide an outlet for those frustrated by the few (found in every population) that just can't seem to control their baser impulses to spew their prejudices or profanities.  At least then we could be amused by the quantitative measurement of their shameful behavior.

Another possibility, this one inspired by a remark by Diane above, would be a degradation of rating for numerous and repetitive complaints of inappropriate behavior.  Just like in some online backgammon venues where ratings decay for lack of play, offended users could contribute to a decay in the rating of an offensive user through modulated repetitve complaints.  The more offensive the user, the more people offended generating more complaints at an increasing frequency resulting in a increasing rate of decay of the rating of the offending player.  Perhaps this could be tied to a courtesy rating in reputation, but that is the pervue of those with the admirable skill and ability to create programs that enable functions for the rest of us.

These are just thoughts.  Overall.... If we were all in the same room, those that in the FIBS environment who feel free to flount their profanities and prejudices with impunity, would find themselves the object of extreme and eventually physical counter prejudices.  I agree with the individuals above... shout behavior should take into consideration the children and youth that also are users or observers.  The kindergarten gang would think twice, in person, acting the way that they do in front of children knowing that they might be facing an irrate parent and other onlookers.  I know for myself, if my children were forced to suffer the repeated blathering of such individuals in a real-time situation, which continued despite warning the offender, said offender might soon be nursing black eyes and other such symptoms of parental displeasure.

To the offenders, who when told to improve their behavior complain that they are having their rights for freedom of expression trampled on, I would hope that your level of intelligence and imagination would enable you to find ways to express yourself fully and completely without having to resort to the profane and obscene.  You might then find yourself taken a bit more seriously.  The rules of polite company, in real-time situations, should apply to this most excellent FIBS community, improving the experience for all and enabling greater discourse.

Okay... my soap box is put away.  I won't say (for their sake... my comments and errors are my own) which respected member of the FIBS community enjoined me to contribute to this discussion, but I fully support those that have come together in the effort to make this a better place for all.  And I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to those with the skill and dedication who have created FIBS, its various bots, attributes and interfaces.  Thank you for your altruistic efforts and the countless hours you have applied toward making FIBS a truly great place to endulge a passion for backgammon!  Without you, we wouldn't be having so much fun!  And also, thank you to those individuals who contribute as tourney directors, sacrificing your game playing time to put together fun events for the rest of us.  

... just a few words from a newbie ...


Good job Webrunner started this discussion. I cannot say how much I hate these shouts with a discriminatory undertone.

Once or twice I was provoked to participate in a discussion I didn't want to be in. That was a big mistake! I learnt some new words but the faul language didn't stop, ofcourse.

Tempty or not, don't bite. Not taking the bait will spoil half of their fun.

I won't be making that mistake again.


-- Purol

The answer is obvious, and is staring you folks in the face.  If you are presented with a gang of bullies, you need a bigger gang of reasonable people.

What the group of excremental fools shout is magnified by the fact that they gang up on one person at a time.  Barring some intervention from Patti (unlikely) they will continue to monopolize shouts until they are overpowered.  What is needed is a group, note that a group is a collection of more than one, to take them on.

Or, the group could just whine about shouts far far away from FIBS, like on FIBSboard.com.

I would suggest that, as a group, protests are made often for boring English and inconsistency (lies) in shouts, via shout.  I would suggest that, if a group of people objected to, say, obscenity or lies in shout, then they support any individual in the group who, with decent language and reasonable credibility, takes on the kiddies of FIBS.

Get noisy on FIBS!  Recapture shouts!  Or do your lemming act here.

--
don

My goodness, I guess this was the topic to get folks posting and reading this board! Time for my $.02...I think webrunner may have found an answer to this problem in his latest post. If you actually have a conversation with most folks, you'll find that they are real people and can connect on some level. Yes, there are those on whom even I have given up, but they are few and far between.

I see ongoing battles between folks (Don/NIHI, Biggles/Zorba, etc) that could be stopped by just ignoring the abuser. I think these guys actually like the fight. It is said that one can't get your goat if they don't know where it's tied. These guys bring the silly goat out and put it on display.

If you are upset about the shouts, it's your problem, not the fault of the shouter. These are just words and most are taken out of context or just tossed out to get a reaction. If you don't want to be a part of it, ignore it. If you don't like FIBS, leave. If you can't stand the heat...

Censorship is just another way to be a bully.

burper's last posting in which i get my shouts quoted makes me sound like a dangerous psychotic with delusions of grandeur. And to think i wasted all of that money on therapy and drugs! where do i get a refund?

Reading this, slightly after midnight on a friday night where another argument has just kicked off on FIBS, I must say I agree with webrunner and would like to reassert what has already been said about not wanting him to leave. I also miss cyan a great deal as she was always a delight to chat to on FIBS and hopefully she will return some time when she has gathered the requisite emotional reserves needed to put up with some the going on on FIBS.
 In the end, this is the case. For me it sometimes becomes a chore to go onto FIBS and listen to the tripe being spewed. I haven't witnessed the kind of language and goings on noted here, but I have often watched the arguments flying. In the end I feel that the type of random arguments that occur are to be expected, even though they may all find root in one topic. What IS completely unacceptable is foul language etc. It doesn't bother me personally, and really it just serves to point out a severe lack of vocabulary on the part of some reprobates. I have found some great people to talk to on FIBS and have found a certain path that I follow. Sadly, the atmosphere in the shouts sometimes ecourages me to partake of the arguments. (I would like to apologise now if I have ever offended anyone, as this is unintentional and I do avoid bad language). The kindergarten group are easy to ignore and I find them innoffensive enough, once their behaviour upsets TDs and any children are affected I think something should be done. What one can do is a moot point however.
   On a side note I find it amusing to find NIHI here. You have been a feature of FIBS from the very first time I logged on. A semi-deity if you will (which I'm sure you would like to agree with). Saying Zorba abuses FIBS is completely erroneous, however, so don't start. He may say a great deal in shouts but at least he has the common decency to do it in a manner that does not lower the tone.
  Other than that, a great site and one that is keeping me from much university work.  :)
   Will.

Ok, this thread teetered out a bit, after everybody lost his steam... Still, I'm a bit unsatisfied, but mostly as I for myself did not find an answer except for just ignoring the kg. It's right that some ideas tend in the general direction of *horror* *shudder* censoring shouts, but then, there definitely is a point where you have to draw the line, or isn't? But then, like in many different areas, you just can't cope with people who, in a sense, are just a destructive bunch of people, feeling themselves great and overwhelming having just caused an outrage. So, I'm at the be beginning of my answer, and one round more clueless than before, I don't know what to do.

Then, on the other hand, just trying to be very selectively, you find very nice and funny people to play with, which leads me to think that there are just two universes on FIBS, the kg, and the rest of us (positively identified as the "sane crowd" :-)

Cheers,
Klaus

the official fibs ruinator would hate to see this lose steam, as so many people seem to be affected by it. then again, maybe i just like to start fires.

while it seemed like a lot of fibsters had different ideas on what was offensive to them, i think everybody (well, everybody who posted) agreed they didn't like foul language being used in the shouts, they wanted newbies to actually receive some assistance with their queries, they didn't like sexual references.

i think i'm beginning to grasp that more than anything, it's the tone and the spirit in which all of the above are done that is heart of the problem. that's just a gut feeling, which i can't quantify.

Yes. I think the most important thing here is that newbies aren't just treated bad so they log off and never return. It's a bad attitude to feel better just because one is  longer on fibs as the other and just kicks somebody around for some question. Not very educated...

Sure, that faul language thing is more gut feeling, as with so many people from so different regions (and different mastering of a language what  for many is just  a second/third/... language) you have to expect differing reactions. Still, even though I don't think those sexual remarks "shocking" I think they are extremly boring, always the same old stuff (see all those spam emails) and - at least to that extent - not something you'd expect from adult people (sure, some joke is ok, but always recurring to the same story, no)

Klaus

QuoteklicÃ,  Posted: Mar 24 2004, 10:25 AM
Yes. I think the most important thing here is that newbies aren't just treated bad so they log off and never return...

It might not make an enormous difference but one of the things we can easily change is the website material written for newbies. Please constructively criticize and suggest changes:
http://www.fibs.com/guide.html (http://www.fibs.com/guide.html)

Also, work was started on a large FAQ some time ago. It borrows heavily from www.dailygammon.com and needs lots of rewriting and links. If anyone would like to pick this up and develop it, please do! Or even just work on part of it?
http://homepage.mac.com/alefrosenbaum/fibs...jects/help.html (http://homepage.mac.com/alefrosenbaum/fibs/projects/help.html)

Since this is hopefully more than just Chit Chat I've copied this into a new thread...
http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=230 (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=230)

I had never read the advice to new players carefully - until you asked if it could be improved - sorry couldnt help but ROFL as they say, at - 'If you're unsure of anything then try asking in the public chat/shouts. There are often many Fibsters who are happy to help out new players.'
It seems that at times - that could be the worst possible course of action!!  If it was decided to include a list of playernames to contact directly in there - I would be happy for mine to be included.

Perhaps this statement ought to be removed - 'Racist and abusive players will not be tolerated. ........In serious cases you should report the player to Patti, warnings will be given and repeat offenders will be banned. ' - since there is little truth in it!!

In fact - an appropriate warning that NO form of censorship applies - and that players of a sensitive nature may wish to disable shouts would be more applicable.

I am not trying to sound negative - but these are exactly the issues faced by a newbie logging in for both the first - and subsequent few times - and without a warning - and accompanying statement to 'hang in there' - cos there are also many wonderful characters here - we lose many of the very people we would wish to see more of.  I have met players on other sites who have visited here - and been put off immediately, and they never really raise the enthusiasm to try again.  

I agree with you, Diane, and have also met people from other sites who reacted the same way.  They just didn't bother to come back.  I like your proposed posting better than Patti's.  At least it is an honest approach.  I wonder if Patti reads this?   :unsure:

socksey



"The secret of staying young is to live honestly, eat slowly, and lie about  
your age." - Lucille Ball

QuotePerhaps this statement ought to be removed - 'Racist and abusive players will not be tolerated. ........In serious cases you should report the player to Patti, warnings will be given and repeat offenders will be banned. ' - since there is little truth in it!!

In fact - an appropriate warning that NO form of censorship applies - and that players of a sensitive nature may wish to disable shouts would be more applicable.

i concur with changing that notice. it's obviously untrue that racist and abusive players aren't tolerated.

i think having that posted leads many to think any behavior is acceptable because stated rules aren't being enforced. and that particular rule being such an important thing at other sites, and in other areas of our life, to have that not being enforced here, sort of ... well it reminds me of don knotts as a frontier sheriff. he can make all the laws he wants about no spitting on the sidewalk, but who is going to pay attention to him when he tries to enforce that law?

rather than have a rule that is clearly not the reality, i think it would serve fibsters more to have the reality clearly stated upfront. even if patti won't change the message when you log onto fibs, we can easily change the faq/newbie info so that newbies aren't totally overwhelmed when they first log on.

wait a sec! i'm reading this really for the first time. what does patti connote as a "serious case"? i'm remembering that most forum posters have expressed that they haven't bothered to notify patti (because of a perceived? opinion that she found this acceptable).

socksey, could you expand more on your back-n-forth with patti regarding banning players and behavior?

So I haven't been around for a while. I stopped in last night and was told to check out this board. I love bg(I also live in a rural community where no even knows what bg is) and I've made a few friends on FIBS but here's what I have to say about this string:

When I shout I find that almost no one ever answers me. While the "kindergaten gang" goes on and on and on with loads of people either chatting with them or accosting them. That leads me to believe no one really wants clean decent chat on FIBS. There's the people that enjoy the vile and the people that enjoy condemning it. If you really want change... what's that old phrase? "It comes from the inside" you are not going to change anyone else. Ignore them and move on and give us all something to talk about or keep whining and make me laugh some more.

My god! What a bunch of pathetic, sissy, whiny bunch of posts these are. It's like that girl scout "camping" trip I took when I was 13. The other girls didn't want to sit on the gound because they'd get dirty and the troop leader's idea of a Saturday outing was going in to town to find the mall. I've never read such pansy comments.Censorship is not the answer folks. If you don't like what someone has to say don't listen to them. Howard Stern has high ratings because sadly it's what the majority of people want to watch the same goes for movies with vulgar language, sex and violence. Television does not form society, society forms television. If people quit watching all the crap they like to complain about the show's ratings would drop and eventually it would quit being made. People still watch it though. Then they complain forever about it. Maybe they just like complaining. It's the same damn thing with FIBS. Stop complaining and act.  Stop reading what they say and stop reacting to it. Eventually, hopefully, they'll go away and find somewhere else where they can be total not a nice persons and get all the attention their mommies never gave them as children.

Sadly though there are people out there who enjoy reading their vile. Just like the people that enjoy listening to Howard Stern and enjoyed seeing the Passion of The Christ. IMHO it is not my place or yours to force my opnions on others. Because I don't like to see the words make love to and pussy used every other word does not give me the right to forbid it for everyone. Gag and ignore the people you don't like. ######ing and moaning about it does nothing but make more people ###### and moan then we all suffer.

You see as a Libertarian just about my number one belief in life is people's individual rights. I may not approve of what you think or say and  you may not approve of what I think or say but it's beautiful that we each have the right to think and speak. I don't have to listen to you if I don't want to and you don't have to listen to me.

If you don't like what someone has to say the stop listening to them. If you whine and persist in telling the how "wrong" and "offensive" they are it's not like they are just going to give in and say oh yeah I guess you're right I'll stop now.

hey hng!  long time no see, and nice to see you are still with us!  ;)))

i agree a lot with hng about freedoms (freedom of speech being high on the list), and am a liberal at heart, also.  problem is as i stated elsewhere on here, gag is not an option in shouts for most.  we either get it all or nothing.  the entrance posting should be changed to be truthful, so that newbies don't suffer shock syndrome when entering.  i think it should also include a warning for minors and/or minors parents that fibs is not a desirable atmosphere for children.  i have learned to deal with the negative shouts by toggling shouts off when they are too disturbing for me.  being an imperfect specimen, i still get pulled in occasionally, but i am happy to say, that is becoming less frequent.  

as far as elaborating on patti's policies, jinnate, i don't have time for a book on individual cases!  i see no benefit from elaborating on the individuals involved, anyway.  it has just been my experience and considerable observation that patti will say, "use gag" unless the person was stupid enough to have words with her, personally.  hey, patti works for free.  it's her right.  enough said.  considering the amount of daily verbal abuse that goes on in fibs, the banning has been minute, to say the least.

socksey




"I base my fashion taste on what doesn't itch." - Gilda Radner

I agree the opening statement is rather ridiculous but it makes me laugh everytime I see it! I couldn't care less what it says. If you're telling me you think it should be changed so precious children don't read things they shouldn't then we'd have to get in a much larger scale conversation than FIBS alone. In my opinion that's poor parenting. The best example I can use is at the cafe I used to have an 11 year old kid that came in everyday after school and hung out for hours. He spent almost all day on the weekends and one entire summer he spent at my cafe. You know, his mother NEVER EVEN ONCE came in here to check the place out and make sure it was appropriate for her kid to be at? Now I run a nice, safe coffee shop but how the hell was she to know that? For all she knew he could be shooting up dope in the back room or surfing porn on my computers. That is her responsibility as a mother not mine as a cafe owner. I use loads of foul language and I'm sure I've given that kid plenty of ideas his conservative Catholic mother would never approve of but she woudln't know because she's never come in to talk to me.

Hello! It's the internet! All the sick make love tos of the world love the internet! They have an endless supply of people to listen to them, people to take advantage of and people to argue with. Everyone knows this and if they don't they are going to learn fast when they enter their first chat room. If a child gets caught up in the middle of it then yes...poor kid.... but that's poor supervision on the parent's behalf not Patti's for having FIBS. Giving a child free unsupervised access to the internet you may as well set them loose in the Playboy mansion. I refuse to have someone tell me that I can't do or say what I want because a child might be watching. Either the parents care enough to check out the things their precious children are doing or they don't. Anyway I worked I've worked with junior high kids and I've never seen anything worse on FIBS than I hear them say everyday.

In closing, I never believe signs on doors or posts on the internet. Bars have signs that say no one under 21 allowed and we all know that's a joke. It doesn't matter what the sign says, you're never going to know what's really inside until going in to find out. If a parent allows their child to run amuck they have no right to complain when the kid comes home one day and has learned the word make love to.

Just one more thing then I think I'll quit on this string:

MY GOD! I SAID I'M A LIBERTARIAN NOT A LIBERAL!!!

Scary thought that is.

see you guys on fibs.


hng

hng, I beg to differ with you.  Serving minors is not a joke.  In California, at least, , if a bartender is caught selling alcholic beverages to a minor, a heavy fine is imposed, as well as a heavy fine for the establishment, and the doors to the establishment can be closed.  When you lose your livelyhood, it becomes a very serious matter.  Of course there are exceptions to the laws, but there will always be the criminal element.   We must do the best we can in whatever circumstance we find ourselves to combat the lawless.

In the case of children beyond the management of their parents, I think it is every responsible adults duty to guide, protect, and care for those children in their vicinity, in the absence of a parent.  It is unrealistic to think that a parent can be in control of their children at all times.  It is humanly and physically impossible for a parent to keep tabs on their child at all times and/or even most of the time.

You're right, of course.  The internet is here and children can't be kept off.  That doesn't mean we have to close our eyes and allow whatever to go on under our noses.

Call me nuts, but I will be doing what I can when I can to protect the innocent.

The Fibs welcoming post is dishonest.  Why post a lie?  That's all I'm saying.

socksey



"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing." - George Bernard Shaw

I'd have to agree with sox here.
Although i understand your point about parenting hng, it still leaves us with the responsibility of adulthood. We should know better and protect the weaker ones on our society.. or at least the children. Even if they are not our own.

But hey.. that's only my opinion..

<_<  

As a school teacher I'm surrounded by kids all day long, and I'd say the language on FIBS is fairly representatitive of how my pupils chat to each other! It might be more a British thing, or even inner city London, but children will now swear very casually. For example, correcting a 13 year-old's work last week he just said "sh**" when I marked an answer wrong -- nobody flinched. I'll only reprimand children when their language is directly towards someone else in a hateful way. But regardless of this, I do find it tiresome and unpleasant reading the shouts sometimes that's why I've gagged most of the usual suspects.

What I suspect doesn't get heard about much and is really disgusting is the sleazy preying on women. Try creating a new username which is obviously female and then shout something naive sounding, see how quickly some of the sickest characters then try to invite you to a match... wonder why cyan left?

I agree with your remarks about female players Alef, but i think even your pupils won't make incestious remarks etc.
Sometimes the things that are said are far beyond the level of "sh**".

I don't even want to think about someone that will confess to be a homosexual on fibs.. he will be burned to the ground i think.

:angry:  

I am aware how the kids talk - also worked in a school - and whilst the majority of us are trying to teach them alternatives - and how to communicate effectively, it seems an uphill struggle sometimes. My own son has grown up amidst some very colourful language - but has an absoulute sense of when to use them - and when not to!  I have no objections to words - and use whichever is appropriate in the moment - and this is the example that should be set.  I do however, object to words being used as weapons (albeit it doesnt upset me in the least - so any and all personal attacks are a complete waste of time)
Noodles - you say you run a nice clean cafe.  Why is that?  Is it because that is a place more people will want to come to and spend their money - perhaps?  And if you had the kind of clientele we have here - you would start losing money hand over fist??
I dont need to gag anyone here - as i said - no 'words' will offend me - and i can imagine the sad individual behind those words - anyone craving attention in the way they do is deeply troubled. So there is no 'hurt' factor for me . In any of it (that is a side effect of my superiority complex  :) ).  But that is not the point - people logging in for the first time see that - and are not helped - but taken advantage of.  You often cant work gag as you start to use a client for the first time - and all that is pouring at you - while you try to get to grips with working the darn things.  It is very offputting - and the nice folk often leave quickly - whilst those who thrive on that join us - hang around being a further pain in the rear - it becomes a self perpetuating cycle.  
And furthermore - to reinforce Sockseys point - one day you wil be a mom - and you will be the kind of mom who lets her child go freely into the world without you holding their hand the whole time.  At that point - do you want the rest of society to completely ignore your child - and pass the buck back to you - or to help be your eyes and ears when you are not there?  Children are the resposibility of the whole society - not just the parents - if we let em run riot - and blame the parents - we will have to face the consequences of that as they become adult.  Anyway - as you say - that is a whole other topic.
The internet is a wonderful and powerful tool/toy, and i get very fed up with the constant scaremongering in the news about how bad it is - and how it should be policed etc - but then if a simple backgammon site can be this bad - i find it disheartening - since it just adds ammunition to those who would try to shut it down/control it!

the "protect the children" agrument has always seemed a week one to me. whenever it's used, it's always felt like someone was trying to control another's behavior indirectly, instead of just saying "your behavior affects me this way" and letting that stand on it's own.

it's like saying "you should be good because santa claus is coming". or it's always felt that way to me.

I was pondering over jinnate's post all last night.  I didn't quite understand her logic and couldn't figure out what Santa had to do with anything we have been discussing here.  Then this morning, I received an email from one of my sisters.  This might put things in a little more perspective for you, jinnate, or whoever.
                                               
                                           *************

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His Father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the back of the fence. The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence.

Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.  

Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. He told his father
about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper.

The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone. The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said, "You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the wound is still there. "

A verbal wound is as bad as a physical one.

                                              **********

socksey

it's the assumption that surely i must not curse because the children could be harmed. as if the person making the argument "well, what about the children?" had values i must surely agree with concerning children. i feel the person saying that to me is attempting to manipulate me.

i don't have those values. i don't hold that children are harmed by hearing curse words. nor do i hold that anyone using curse words in front of children must be a monster or an irresponsible adult.

if someone decides not to feed their child meat, that's on them. if the child comes to my house and wants meat, i might give them meat. the parents' values are theirs, not mine.

i just checked out a 95-post thread at rgb and boy are my mouse hand tired!

it was all about don and his 6-month ban. 95 posts.

anyway, i came away thinking that people seemed upset with patti because she seemed to be supporting the kg and kgb. and i'm wondering if this isn't true now - that people perceive patti as being friends with the kg and therefore unwilling/unmotivated to do anything about kgb.  

QuoteI recommend people use the gag command more, and it's helpful to others to shout that you're doing so. This is one of the worst punishments as mostly these people are trolling, desperate for attention and reactions. I once had snowflakes leaving me abusive messages for a while because I'd gagged him, clearly if he was that bothered by it then I must have done something right!

Also, if someone is particularly abusive and/or racist then I think it is worth copying the text and sending it to pattib@fibs.com. Especially if she hears from a few people she might act on it -- people do get banned from FIBS sometimes.

I agree with the gag comments alef, but Biggles brought up a good point in shouts today:

If Patti feels that FIBS is creating too much troublein her life, she might just shut it down. I don't know for sure that she is in a situation where she could do that, but she certainly can choose to stop administering it. If she did, would marvin and/or kit bother to find it another home? I don't know, but it certainly would be a roll of the dice to find out.

So, I would disagree that it is worth troubling her if one feels offended. You *might* get her attention if it fits the legal description of a crime, but I don't know if her attention is neccesarily a good thing. She might just do the quickest and easiest thing.

FIBS bullies will use whatever tactics they can to convince others of keeping the status quo.

No one can speak for Patti except Patti. But, for whatever it's worth, my impression of her is that she is actually very devoted to keeping it running.

When there's been severe lag or the whole thing has gone down then she's moved quickly to sort it out, check in the rec.games.backgammon archives. She might ignore our emails and leave the motd out of date but when FIBS isn't working she shows she cares.

Quote
No one can speak for Patti except Patti.

Right, and the times I've chatted with her, she has indicated that there isn't anything she can do if it doesn't meet the legal definition of some kind of abuse or harassment. She has also indicated that she hates to get gobs of email about stuff she cannot control.

Quoteanyway, i came away thinking that people seemed upset with patti because she seemed to be supporting the kg and kgb. and i'm wondering if this isn't true now - that people perceive patti as being friends with the kg and therefore unwilling/unmotivated to do anything about kgb.

biggles came roaring at me on fibs about this, and i thought maybe he was overreacting, but re-reading this i can see why he got the wrong impression. so let me put this another way:

more than once in the thread, players mentioned that don was being held to a standard not applied to nihi, honeygirl and a couple of other nicks i've already forgotten. i thought "hey, so these players felt like don's behavior was being singled out and patti's friends are getting away with the same type of stuff, or, at the very least, not being held to the same standard don is being held to". specifically, people mentioned that hg could have simply employed the gag feature that patti kept advocating don use.

and then i thought "you know, i think at the bottom of all that going on at fibsboard, or at least a very large part of what's being said and not said, is that some players perceive that patti is not enforcing good behavior, standardized bans, etc, because the majority of the transgressors happen to be her friends or people she's on good terms with."

also, dug this up out of the fibs' help ('help erase'). this is probably something that ought to go into newbie information, along with the some introduction to fibs culture:

QuoteNAME
erase - How and why accounts are erased
DESCRIPTION
I'm very sorry that this is necessary, but I can't wait any longer: There have been problems with users of the backgammon server complaining about other players.  Complaints were about cheating and about insulting other users.  It's not possible for me to verify if those incidents did really happen, because I'm not logged in all the time, because people tend to behave well as soon as I'm logged in and because listening to all players involved (which I tried) uses up a lot of the time I can use for maintaining and improving the server.  Therefore I have asked a couple of players to report those incidents.  Those players are users of this server for several months and I know that I can rely on what they tell me.  If those players keep telling me that someone is misusing the server I will erase the account in question without discussing about it.  I know this may not always be the ideal way to solve the problems, but I don't see any other way to deal with them.
REMARKS
Don't complain if it happens to you - it's not my decision.  No, I won't tell who the players are whom I asked to keep their eyes open.  I won't answer the insulting emails I'll get. I won't listen to complaints about other players by other players than the ones I asked to complain.

Since I notice I've been mentioned in this thread a couple of times, after a humorous start by NIHILIST, here's something to consider if you wonder about Bob Ebbeler's credibility.

*** WARNING: probably offensive material for many people ***

Just thought it might be nice to quote NIHILIST (Bob Ebbeler) on shout tonight (censoring by me):

NIHILIST shouts: me too, also at the image of that n*z*-sh*t-covered d**k  in zorbas granny mouth

Not worth commenting on any further, I'd say, just thought I'd share this for information. Although I doubt Patti will ever cooperate when it comes to freeing FIBS from shouts like these, I thought it only fair to share this with her, after all this is appearing on the FIBS server she runs.

Different people find different things offensive. Your extreme bigotry towards all American's offends me, for instance, but it's not worth whining about.

There's a difference between a political debate and the sort of shouts NIHILIST likes to make, I'd say. I'm sorry for you if you can't differentiate between the two.

Top tip Zorba - and i think you might have heard it somewhere before.....
GAG HIM
He was the first player i gagged on here, about two weeks after i first joined i think!!  I ungagged him for a while when i saw some of the nice people talk to him.  That lasted maybe another week.  Whilst most of the other controversial shouters are often humerous, sharp and have moments of brilliance - i have never seen anything from him worth reading (albeit it over a very short time span!!)
When it comes to what one finds offensive - it is indeed subjective - and i find "hello" from him to be offensive.  So - he remains the only player i have gagged.

Hi all

Please read my statement about TourneyBot (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?showtopic=215).

Ok, the problem with the children is new for me.

The *special* shouts I've read a lot of time. I don't understand all, because of my mother language. May be it's sometimes better like that.  ;)

If I play at FIBS, I can check the players. If they have a very bad reputation, I don't play with them. So, I play mostly against very nice players.

But in tourneys, I *must* play against the opponents, that I get from TourneyBot. And so my suggestion to all tourney directors is to use the TourneyBot with the min-reputation feature. May be, we can't change the language in the shouts, but we could change the language in the tourneys.

What do you think?

Greetings
amarganth

I am with you on that one - and i always use it.   :)  

Here's some incredibly good advice for you, Zorba; Don't pick fights and you won't get punched.

Lately you've made a habit out of giving me sh** from the minute I log in. I decided long ago to never throw the first rock, but to throw a bigger rock when not a nice persons like you continue to run your mouth. The result is always the same. The guy who picked the fight, you in this case, run to Patti tearfully whining about how badly you've been abused.

Your comment about POLITICAL DEBATE is laughable. I invite Patti to review the logs and decide for herself whether your xenophobic ravings in any way resembled a DEBATE.

While she's at it she might look at shout logs for when you AREN'T logged in to see how the noise level decreases.

Bob

You don't throw the first rock NIHI?

So.. what did you do yesterday in a private chat to me when i only wished everyone a good night? That wasn't a kind goodbye or even farewell!
It was an insult that came out of nowhere.. i never even spoke a word to you before that!

And don't call me a lier on this since i saved every letter of it!

BTW.. i have picked a fight and you never saw me running to Patti.

And also: yesterday you called me a dutch whiner that cries like a baby on the forum.. What are you doing now?

Don't get me wrong.. i am not taking Zorba's side here, although i have to agree that the language he uses is prolly a lot more civilized then yours.
And i appreciate you venting your opinion here, i really do, even after what you started yesterday.

But don't tell other people off about things you do yourself too.. i think that is what you call a double standard isn't it?

So a good advice to you: although you have the highest rating on fibs, that doesn't mean you are also the best person on fibs. Everyone has a right to be there and enjoy it without being bullied. So stop whining (yes i said whining) about Zorba yourself. (and that goes for biggles too).
I have noticed that you guys shout his name at least once every 5 minutes when he is NOT even there and it's getting way boring. Give it up already!

For Zorba: i don't understand why you keep picking fights when obviously a lot of people are fed up with it.

I guess reality is something which completely escapes NIHILIST now and then.

Your assumptions are wrong. I just gave this quote to Patti and this forum for information, that's all. I didn't comment on it; I think your shouts speak for themselves.

I also don't mind getting responses to my shouts from people that disagree and from somebody like you I don't even mind getting insulted for many shouts in a row; I'm used to the gang of rude people you like to participate in (badass, Biggles_two, zyxtcba...). The only times I might feel "punched" is when respectable people criticize me; you're not one of those.

Judging by your language Bob, you always sound like a highly frustrated kid to me. Your long-term abusement of FIBS is starting to show ever more and out in the open for everyone. That's what you really hate me for, isn't it? I show you what you've become on FIBS over these years and it's an ugly sight. Many FIBSters might be surprised to learn you're in fact not a hormonally challenged 16 year old boy who thinks he's a man, but a settled middle aged guy. Is this really the image you want, Bob?

N.B. I suggest you read that shout by yourself a few times more, and then conclude you're disqualified for giving any moral qualifications about others supposed xenophobia. It's laughable Bob.

I hope you will never get banned, but rather learn to control yourself. It's part of growing up; never too late for that.

God Bless Zorbald.....

Always good for a bellylaugh.



Have a good day, my fellow Fibsters.

Bigg
(The most popular Fibster)

Hi,

I have been on the server for awhile now and have noticed a deterioration of manners as well.  I feel it is sad that immature idiots pollute servers that  others hold dear and enjoy.
I agree with your decisions and feel that banning players who are offensive to others is the ONLY WAY to control these bad apples.  I hope you stick to your principles on this.

Regards,
Whidbeycraig

Now there's an avatar! :lol:

I must say this is by far the funniest thing I've ever seen by Biggles. Keep it up! :yes:

 

midnight musings and deep sea diving...

i was thinking about the charge of whining. and i was thinking about what i said in shouts the other day, about how nihi, biggles and others feel attacked by zorba. when zorba says something they feel offended by, they don't complain to patti, or plan local proxies, etc. they pull out their verbal bats and begin whacking.

my back and forth on a lot of this commy vs snakepit topic... once i used to be a member of this artists coop. a bunch of us got fed up with what we saw as abusive behavior by another group of artists in the coop. damned democracy, it took a majority vote to get anything done, and it seemed that on the subject of the abusive behavior, the coop was split right down the middle as to who wanted change and who wanted things to stay the same.

frankly, my own views on the subject was ban, bar, slash and burn: kick those ne'er do wells the blank out. it didn't take a genious to see where these schmucks were headed so why put up with their crap?

there was a lot of other stuff going on as well. to make a long story short. the division helped close the place.

i came away from that experience doing a lot of soul searching.

we had some really valid complaints. well, that's what i think anyway. ask someone else who was there and they might tell you differently. in the end it didn't matter because we weren't listening to them and they weren't listening to us. i still wonder how we could have done things differently.

it seems to me everybody at fibs is wearing protective armor in shouts.

<_<
I am not...

QuoteI am not...

you're not what? :huh:

back to my ramblings...

what i kept coming back to was maybe it was wrong to outright ban them. maybe, well, there had to be some way of getting them in on the action.

i should back up. after the place closed (and btw, i am not suggesting that fibs might close because of any of this), i kept going back and forth over what went wrong. we were putting a great deal of effort into keeping the place clean and nice and attractive. of keeping supplies and donations coming in. we were putting a lot of work into the place. and it seemed like the other group were putting a lot of work into getting as much out of it as they could, without putting anything into the place. we always felt like ... well, to use an analogy, you sweep and mop a floor, and then someone comes in and tracks in mud from outside. so you sweep and mop. and they do it again. and in normal situations, or healthy situations, you can go to the person, talk reasonably and come to an agreement. maybe they won't wear their shoes in the house so that doesn't happen. or they wipe their feet. but in the case of this place, the others seemed to resist all of that: why were we mopping floors anyway?

jinnate, either you're smoking the whacky stuff or your anologies are on too high a level!

No, actually that's not quite fair, I think I follow some of what you're saying. Instead of giving up on the difficult people figure out how to include them more in the process of improving FIBS? burper has talked a lot about how RepBot and TourneyBot can give people motivations to behave and act sensibly in our online community, perhaps you're talking about something even more inclusive?

If you're trying to say something more specific maybe you need to spell it out concretely. By no means do I wish to poo poo your more ideological ramblings -- it's definitely good to brainstorm and rethink issues these ways -- but I do feel you need some more grounding in what you're saying if you want to hold people's full attention.

Difficult people?  A pox on difficult people!

Work with them?  There is a difference between people who are difficult because they want things a certain way and people who are difficult because they base their lives on being difficult.

We have all run into people like this in our lives.  People who look to take offense for the least possible reason and than act all righteous.

FIBs needs to sort out who has valid complaints and suggestions and who is just trying to create problems.

And as for Jinnate's point, I think it was clear as day.  Sometimes people get so caught up in the fight they forget what they are fighting about and eveything falls apart as a result.  You are left wondering if you could have resolved it.

The only way to deal with people like this is to recognize them for what they are and not heed to their petty demands.  But personally, I say keep'em around because I find them amusing!

QuoteNo, actually that's not quite fair, I think I follow some of what you're saying. Instead of giving up on the difficult people figure out how to include them more in the process of improving FIBS? burper has talked a lot about how RepBot and TourneyBot can give people motivations to behave and act sensibly in our online community, perhaps you're talking about something even more inclusive?

If you're trying to say something more specific maybe you need to spell it out concretely. By no means do I wish to poo poo your more ideological ramblings -- it's definitely good to brainstorm and rethink issues these ways -- but I do feel you need some more grounding in what you're saying if you want to hold people's full attention.

you know, before beginning the midnight musings post, i came prepared with a whole bunch of arguments and tightly bound logic, and none of it felt right. i'm getting tired of preaching. mostly because it doesn't seem to be getting anyone anywhere. i'm noting people quick to stand on the soapbox and starting banging on the podium, and it doesn't feel like there's a conversation going on, just people yelling at each other and pointing fingers.

so i want to be less specific and concrete. i want to stop pounding on the podium. i am kind of new here and while what's going on here reminds me of that coop, this isn't that coop. i don't want to tell you how to handle it. i don't know that i can tell you how to handle it. we weren't successful in how we handled it, i can't imagine i'm really qualified to say "do it this way."

so i'm just spinning a yarn and seeing where i wind up.  

Actually, I have an additional thought/comment.

A while back I discovered the shout log from 9/11.  Man was I pissed off!  Regardless of politics, these were innocent people.

So people want to complain about certain people on fibs right now?  Sure some of what people say it is definately rude and over the top.  Some of it might border on a warning from Patti or a temporary suspension.  But you want to talk about things that should get you banned?  Take EVERYONE from that 9/11 log who said something so cute and clever and ban them forever.

I would love to see if there was a log about people joking about lynchings of blacks in the South or slavery.  Or perhaps a log making jokes about the about the holocaust.  Funny stuff to be sure!

Lets all grow up and realize that there are sick and sadistic people out there.  We can all have fun, but lets not cross over that line.  Engage in some rough humor at times (I personally love it) and move on.  You don't climb into the ring if you aren't expecting to get popped in the mouth a little.  Take it like a man or women.

But where to draw the line?  I knew that when I was a kid on the school yard.  You say whatever you say to another guy, but you bring up his mother and everyone would beat the hell out of you.  We all know where the line is, we just need to respect it.  The 9/11 stuff is definately over the line.  The rest of this is just bull$hit is comparison!

Quote

QuoteI am not...

you're not what? :huh:

wearing protective armour

Wow.  5 pages of responses to this thread?  I must be doing something wrong.  I don't think I've ever been on fibs in my 9 years where it hasn't been a hoot.  I enjoy the "real" political debates, the fake debates, the witticisms, the humorous threads, the flirtations, and, truth be told, even the backgammon itself.  Snakepit stuff?: I learned to ignore that stuff back in grade school and here, with gag functions (as my friend diane keeps telling us), it's even easier.  And I count on that gag function to work for all of you if I'm having a bad day and let my immature side show for a moment (or ten).  By all means, "tell" me and othes when you think a line has been crossed.  I think most of the common shouters are more than happy to reflect on reasonable requests and expectations.

Now, would someone agree to actually find out why honeygirl hates me?

your friend,

mookie

p.s. VOUCH MOOKIE

Good to see you here mookie - and i dont know - were you making out and lost concentration cos another pretty girl wandered by??  Some ladies dont like that! :)

Hi everyone, I've just been reading everyones posts and it seems as though there is a multitude of valid points, opinions and suggestions.

I too, am disappointed in the vocal minority that selfishly assume that their profanity contibutes something to this community.

The reason why there aren't too many anarchist communities (admitedly there's a few notable exceptions at the moment) in the world is that the best communities exist and thrive when the community members share common values and are respectful of each other.

I believe whole heartedly that people are entitled to have their own views, however I draw the line where those views are expressed in intolerant, combative or abusive terms and are forced on others. Some of the language and content expressed within the shouts borders on the criminal.

The log-on message for fibs is
     
"This server is on the net to meet people from all countries.
All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!
Rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice."

Yet, it seems that this statement is a bit like putting the Queensbury Rules for Boxing on the wall during a massive bar brawl. And the threats have not been followed up.

Many web-forums (in fact most...) have moderators to ensure that the majority of members are not offended, inconvenienced by or intimidated by the minority. People who do offend are removed by the moderators.

It would seem that Patti might not be too keen on the banning appoach. Fair enough - it's her baby. I haven't been around long enough to know who the repbot Gods are (ie who designs and controls this beautiful but powerful bot) but maybe they might consider appointing 'moderators' who can apply a penalty to the offender's reputation. Any instances of intimidation, abuse, racism, homophobic attacks, vilification, graphic descriptions of a sexual nature etc etc noted by a moderator who would issue the offender with a penalty against their rating and a message could be automatically sent to the offender to let them know.

This might encourage offenders to change their behaviour (but I doubt it) and at the very least it would keep them out of the tourneys. It gives newbies a chance to see who are the nasty players  so that they can avoid them. Also, it would remove the need to ask Patti to ban someone. Finally, people who thrive on attention (like these people obviously do) need others to notice them to 'reward' their bad behaviour through public acknowlegement. By ignoring them (and doing damage to their reputation so people know that they should ignore them) they are starved.

Perhaps there is no solution but there is my two cents worth :rolleyes: . Is it possible from a technical point of view?

Cheers
matty

so...

where was i?

oh yes. airplane analogies.

ah. forget that.

i remember ... being so fed up with the discussions all the time. there was really no question about what was going on and how it was affecting everyone. why were we still talking about it? it seemed like there was a contingent of "do-gooders" who didnââ,¬â,,¢t want to exact the consequences needed to end some of the madness.

it was so annoying because ...

wait. another tangentââ,¬â,,¢s demanding attention.

i remember one member couldnââ,¬â,,¢t keep her space clean. now artists are gonna have some chaos, thatââ,¬â,,¢s true, but her space was ... just filled with junk. she had stuff for projects sheââ,¬â,,¢d never do, and roadkill sheââ,¬â,,¢d picked up ("going to use the fur"). and thereââ,¬â,,¢d be stuff falling out of the confines of her space...

mostly it was the feeling you got from looking at the space. like coming home to a dirty house after a long day at work. it didnââ,¬â,,¢t help she really didnââ,¬â,,¢t see it as a problem.

everybody agreed it was a problem. but no one wanted to be the meanie, it seemed, and tell her she had to clean the space, keep it clean, or else. no one, it seemed, wanted to do the work required (tell her what the expected changes were, what the consequences would be, and enforce those consequences) to actually get the results they said they wanted. i canââ,¬â,,¢t tell you how pissed i was with that.

especially considering this wasnââ,¬â,,¢t her only annoying habit. she also stole things, paid rent late, talked incessantly about nothing, and it just seemed like if we cracked down on any one of her behaviors, weââ,¬â,,¢d solve a LOT of problems.

but each time people would start complaining, weââ,¬â,,¢d get to the "what to do about it" part, and it would fall apart. people would just keep talking about what we couldn't do. we couldn't ask her to clean her space because we couldn't define clean. (well, we couldn't agree upon the way to differentiate between artistic chaos and filth.) we couldn't ask her to stop stealing because we hadn't seen her actually take the item. we couldn't ask her to stbu (shut the blank up) because she was mentally ill, and couldn't help herself. we couldn't make enforce the rent issue because she was nuts and would pay eventually. blah-blah-blah, blah-blah blah-blah.

maddening.

But here is a question.....sure it gets out of hand on occaision.....but is it that bad?  A lot of the stuff is "in house" if you will.  Some people refer to it as the kindergarten gang, but they usually just play amonst themselves.  Sure there is rudeness to the random player....but I don't see it too much.  Perhaps we are all fanning the flames of what is really a small fire?

:puke:   I just love this icon!

Not sure if you were online yesterday for heymark's little outburst Port but it was pretty full on, as anyone who witnessed it would probably agree.

Not merely rude, just a spewing forth of hatred and racism :angry: . Not nice stuff and certainly not within 'his little group'.

It's this sort of person I am talking about, not rude people, who don't bother me either way.

I'd like to take this moment to say a special hello to 'Z' who I know is a big fan of my posts. :giveflower:  

What I cannot figure out is how jinnate justifies her own kindergarten behavior, starting a flame war here, with her general musings.  It seems to me she is tracking up the floor, not mopping it.

QuoteWhat I cannot figure out is how jinnate justifies her own kindergarten behavior, starting a flame war here, with her general musings.  It seems to me she is tracking up the floor, not mopping it. 

This is both a personalized attack and unconstructive. don, this is a public warning: please use the FIBS Board sensibly or not at all.

I just wish Mookie was a bit more discerning in who he flirts with. I gave my grandmother my Fibs log-on and now all she does is talk about shoes and cheese.

Using the FIBS Board sensibly does include amusing randomness.

For the record I once met resh/csg for a few games of backgammon in a pub in London. To his credit, he won 2 matches. To my credit we survived the evening without his shouting about doodoo or muslims even once.

Ya know what?  We should just all chill out.  I like the semi-serious debates.  I frequent Fibs just as much for the shouts as I do BG.  

It's just when it gets all stupid and wacky that I mind it.  I like to shout.  I could sit at home with a backgammon program and play against a compter.

Some of the harsher people need to watch what they say, and some of the thin skinned people need to get a life!

:puke:  

Thank you for the clarification, alef.  I admit I was a bit miffed when I wrote that post at what I perceive to be flames on FIBS abetted by a tourneybot director, but I get the point.  May I make some points of my own?

For example, you may recall that I started a thread on "TBot director qualifications /...they should know FIBS" in which I was careful to be polite and avoid naming the director I was referring to.  Now I'd say the following is a flame, pure and simple...

-- jinnate -- Apr 1 2004, 01:39 AM
i find it an honor and a privilege that my 50th posting would be to address you thusly:

go blank yourself, don.
--

The conversation went on, somewhat constructively, until the following flame....

-- burper --  Apr 3 2004, 06:43 AM
Don't enable this guy TD's, he'll never stop. He's always right. Just ignore it all and get back to running tourneys!
--

Then jinnate decided to start her very own flame thread, "Dear don /enough" which had the apparant purpose of being a final flame because she wasn't going to listen to me anymore.  Not my opinion of polite or reasonsible,  since she never even got the initial point, which did not have to be personal, and which you made very well, alef.

On this thread, you can see more flames from burper and others, and a very intelligent comment from you, alef, about crossed wires.  If jinnate had simply figured that out at the start instead of flaming, all would be well.

What I would like to know is, do you have to be a tourneybot director in order to flame here?  If so, I would like to become a director.  Who do I ask?  All I know is there is one director who cannot respond (or even read) an impersonal comment without making it personal and seeing to it that friends on FIBS get special information to use, information only available to a TD, to flame me there.  That is what got me miffed, and caused me to make the post to which you objected, alef.

I believe if you review my previous posts on the two mentioned threads, you will find that I was generally polite, attempted to be constructive, ignored most of the flames, and in fact was quite complimentary to jinnate.  At the very least, alef, I think you should make the point you made to me about posts here to users like jinnate and burper (and some others).

Don has picked fights for years on FIBS, picked fights on RGB for years, and is well on his way to repeating the pattern here. Anyone who responds to him is trivialized and labelled a harasser and a FLAMER.

Lest anyone take him seriously, please remember that Don is the one who got banned from FIBS for 6 months for his infantile behavior.

It's also worth noting that he ratchets up his nonsense when confronted by a woman. He shout attacks Honeygirl, knowing that she's permagagged him. He picked a beef with Patti and got FIBS-banned. He picked a fight with Jinnate and is now banned from her tourneys.

In his recent posts here, he insists on dredging up the situation with Jinnate instead of leaving it alone and moving on.

The guy obviously has problems with strong minded women and probably needs professional help, but that's a subject for a psychiatric newsgroup.


NIHILIST

I note the typical words of  NIHILIST reply, same old same old, spiced with his typical lies.  Was NIHI's post a flame, alef?  I didn't notice a single remark about anything I've written here.

......and yet it was all true.

What part was a lie; that Patti banned you from FIBS or that Jinnate banned you from her tourneys ?

Is it a flame if it's a fact ?



NIHILIST

<-- is awaiting someone to address the issues.

NIHILIST, your two recent posts on this thread are unconstructive personalized attacks. Please either find something worth contributing here or don't post at all. This is a public formal warning about your use of FIBS Board.

don, my warning to you concerned your particular post above my warning. I'm not going to get drawn into commenting on all the various threads between yourself, jinnate, burper and others. Just wish to say that questioning my responses to others is a distraction from the point at hand, and takes no account of private comments I have made as moderator. Please do not unnecessarily drag these matters out.

webrunner and I are moderating this Board in the best way we feel fit. We are not happy with the state FIBS shouts are in at times (hence the title of this thread) and are not willing to sit back and let this Board run free to descend to whatever level a minority of bickering posters see fit -- have a look at what rec.games.backgammon has sadly been like. Although some thick skinned readers might not mind, many others do. Having personalized fights polluting these threads puts people off reading here.

I beg your pardon, I thought you wanted an OPEN discussion of the issue at hand. That generally means you'll hear from some who are in agreement with you, and some who DISAGREE.

I believe I stated my thoughts clearly, in a polite fashion, and, most important, supported by FACTS.

Was Jinnates 2 word BLANK YOU post, directed at Don anything less than a personal attack ? If so, why didn't you admonish her in the way you did me ?

Your post gives ample evidence of why you met with opposition in your quest for the FIBS code. Many, including myself, felt that if you got the code you'd turn FIBS into your own little coffee-klatsch, banning anyone you deemed had behaved badly.

This thread has run 7 pages and has amounted to nothing but spleen-venting. You've come up with nothing in the way of SOLUTIONS, which is moot anyway, since you cant impose them on FIBS.

I expect I'll be banned after this, if you have the guts to let it post at all. As my parting comment, I wish you, webrunner and Diane continued enjoyment of this site. I have a feeling that's all of you who will remain in a few weeks.


NIHILIST

On the contrary, what we are all seeing here is players in larger and larger numbers coming to visit this site, reading - and more importantly - posting. (just check out all the 'awful' people for confirmation of this)  :)
Players are more than ever involved in FIBS - having become more aware of its past, its present - and now contributing to its future.  Players can come together with ideas for the programmers, programmers can take those ideas and work more collaboratively to produce better and better clients, bots - and even more swish things - that i dont even understand yet!! :blink:

Instead of being a hang out visited only by the very technical - it has become a much more inclusive arena - and i think we all feel a lot more positive because of it!


And i'm having one of these - havent got a clue what it is - but i like it !! :ph34r:  

I think I have to agree with NIHI on some level.  Bringing up the facts (or at least one person's understanding of them) is not necessarily an unproductive attack.  This thread has been a debate.  If we all wanted to talk about what a Utopian FIBs would be like, well thats great.  IF we want to talk about what is wrong, some specifics will need to be given.

Everytime someone has mentioned a name or specific problem they have been called some variant of unproductive.  If it leaves it out of shout and on a thread that you have to seek out, isn't that a better thing?

I think so long as no one is outright abusive and unproductive why not let the conversation take its course.  Otherwise people will not be able to speak their minds and nothing will be resovlved.

I agree..
It is what i did in the very first post on this topic, although i mentioned that it was an example of behaviour i disslike.

Anyway..NIHI you are not being banned for posts like this. Especially not in this topic. I am not in favor of banning at all actually. I see it as a last resort action.
There are some other tools that can be used to help someone understand the rules of a forum.

This is not ment to be a thread. Reading it i knoiw it looks like one but it actually isn't. I only want to make clear that i am not keen on keeping a tight leesh on this board, but it has to be enjoyable for all of us.

A board full of flamewars is not something we all are looking for and i will prevent that from happening. Until then.. go ahead and continue the discussion in this thread, as long as you keep the language clean.

Very good, someone, at last seems to grasp the concept of free speech.

I agree with Diane that FIBS has become more participatory because of innovations like Tourney Bot, but this thread was started to discuss bad behavior by certain individuals, and, if you bother to look back at the very first post, my name was mentioned prominently in about the 4th sentence.

It's fair to say that the subject has been beaten to death. Whether you like it or not, at the end of the day, THAT part of FIBS won't change. Patti has stated repeatedly that she has no interest in refereeing mudfights between disagreeable children. Learn to love the gag command.

On the other hand, I have no quarrel with a tourney director banning someone from playing even for the most arbitrary of reasons. I have no trouble with Alef banning anyone from posting his thoughts here simply because they conflict with his.

The bots and FIBSBOARD are their toys. They can pick them up and take them home any time they like.


NIHILIST

I was clearly seeing a nasty war errupt here as it has done before so many tiresome times on FIBS and r.g.b., so I jumped in to stamp it down. However, I concede that this thread is specifically about these sorts of problems and didn't take that context into consideration before. webrunner's stance of letting this thread go completely free is one I that I now in hindsight agree with.

There isn't any set FIBS Board policy, I guess that might develop as precedents get made, who knows? webrunner has given me the role of global moderator and I'm wearing that hat and figuring out what to do with it as things go along. I also agree that bans should be last resorts, though I think early warnings are sensible. But I'm wandering a bit off-topic, so let me ask...

What is FIBS, community or snakepit... or both?

(http://www.alef.co.uk/images/snake.jpg)

By the way, burper, your FibsCompanion (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?showtopic=198&st=20) is sounding very cool :yes:

Fibs is, always has been and will continue to be complete and total anarchy.....


Keep your grubby little hands off...........



Biggles (The most popular Fibster) B)  

QuoteWhat is FIBS, community or snakepit... or both?

That's easy. FIBS is the snakepit  :o, fibsboard is the community :wub:.
It's kind of a ying yang thang brother!  B)

Had it all figured out back in '93
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=beautifu...t.CV.COM&rnum=1 (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=beautiful+anarchy+group:rec.games.backgammon&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=21&as_maxm=4&as_maxy=2000&selm=CG8G2H.MMy%40cvbnet.CV.COM&rnum=1)
This discussion is soooo last century  :lol:  

I apologize in advance, Alef, but your last post is just too hillarious to ignore. I've heard Don say plenty of overblown, pompous, self-important stuff in the time I've observed him, but you take the cake.

"  webrunner has given me the role of global moderator and I'm wearing that hat and figuring out what to do with it  "

GLOBAL MODERATOR ??? Not European, or some other paltry title, but GLOBAL MODERATOR ??? You make it sound like you got appointed to some high executive position with Microsoft or General Motors.

For God's sake, man, it's an insignificnt chat board, get over yourself. Lest you think this is just another unconstructive flame, I'll help you figure it out.

Put a topic up for grabs and ask for comments. No hat required.

NIHI

Apology accepted?  :wacko:

The term "global moderator" is part of this board's inbuilt design. Here's the "moderation team":
http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Stats&CODE=leaders (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Stats&CODE=leaders)

Maybe it's NIHILIST's first internet chat forum.
Or perhaps his first moderated one? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

It is indeed a standard name that is used in the forum software and loads of forums all over the world.
It means that Alef can moderate in all forums, whereas other moderators can only moderate some specific forums.

So.. your apology was appropriate.

Next time don't judge before you know what really is going on.

:no:  

I am king of my house hold and master of all I survey!

:) hystory keeps repeating..

Wow. Its not possible that anybody read this far, so I can have just as much fun as I want.

     Congratulations to Don for his ability to alter the very fabric of space and time.
This will serve him well in some future endeavor.

      The phrase "psychologically damaged" was used in  one of the early posts.
That concept is part of what's involved here, but its hard to say which walnut has the pea under it. If you think you have located a candidate, remember that Allah said to honor the psychologically damaged - its good for community show business. Well, the syntax may have been a little different.  But there are lots of
reasons to sidle around such individuals, rather than giving a portion of control to them.

    A technical note: repbot is a frail tool. A certain, uh, anonymous, fibster recently said in shout "Biggles taught me that - you vouch for me and I'll vouch for you." Some unregulated markets should not be trusted.

    The most useful posts have been about the nature of anarchy. Its an abstract
thesis topic, not a lifestyle. If you have a whole bunch of anarchy in your life,  the
phrase "short, nasty, harsh and brutal" is only the beginning. But small doses of
anarchy can  show you a lot. Thus we have the gloriously dysfunctional fibs, with
fraudulent ratings, bellowed nonsense, oafish boasting, authority figure looking the other way, shocking language, and everything.  Visit it,  learn from it,  be glad its a
good window, in at least some ways, on how not to be.

    Have I told you about dailygammon?

dean, i really liked your post.

LOL....Dean........get a life

It's a free BACKGAMMON server, not some stuffy pipe-smoking group of high class snobs waxing rhetoric.......  

FIBS was fine before you came, and it will be fine long after you're gone.....Don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out.

Biggles
(The most popular Fibster)

To be honest, I like the way FIBS is run currently.  When there are too many micromanagers, things get stupid in a hurry.  So every once in a while someone says something they shouldn't......it's regretable, but that is life.  Put a group of people in a room in real life and tell me if they will all agree about everything and get along.  It is the nature of people to behave like this and add in the benefit of being annonymous and look out!

The arguing, fighting and name calling is probably no more or less brutal than what goes on in school yards, families and offices.  Why does anyone expect FIBS to be any different.

People like Don may have been the focus of this thread, but I would honestly miss them if they were gone.  Just like I want to kill my relatives most of the time, you get used to them and would feel empty if they are not around.  And just like I put my brothers in a headlock or hang up on them them, I can gag and blind people when I have had too much.  I think everyone adds something to FIBS.

Long live the glorious backgammon server that is FIBS and two weeks of diarhea to all the droppers!  (Wishing death on droppers is bad for my karma)

QuoteIt's a free BACKGAMMON server, not some stuffy pipe-smoking group of high class snobs waxing rhetoric....... 

Hey, is there a pipe going round? I missed out on that   :o    Someone let me have a toke please...

Many of the best things in life are free. Comparing FIBS to GamesGrid or other pay servers is silly, but I think DailyGammon is a great role model backgammon server: it's a labour of love of a talented programmer and a few of his family and friends. Sadly, FIBS has lost its once enthusiastic creator, but why should that stop others from helping out?

Quotei'm getting tired of preaching. mostly because it doesn't seem to be getting anyone anywhere.

Hi, jinnate, and welcome to fibs! :)  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  

Quote

QuoteWhat I cannot figure out is how jinnate justifies her own kindergarten behavior, starting a flame war here, with her general musings.Ã,  It seems to me she is tracking up the floor, not mopping it.Ã, 

This is both a personalized attack and unconstructive. don, this is a public warning: please use the FIBS Board sensibly or not at all.

Was there an election for "sensibility monitors"?  Who decides what is constructive and what is not?  What's the deal?  If you can't impose your morality on fibs, it will be imposed on the fibsboard?  Respectfully, this so-called moderation you guys are attempting to enforce here is pretty weak, and more than unnecessary, sayeth I.

It is quite legitimate for don to hold the feeling he expressed, and he did it in a non-rude manner, so what exactly is the complaint here?

Holy crap, now the sensibility police are going to come for me.  First they came for don, but I wasn't don so I STFU..... excuse me, I'm late for my train.

QuoteI concede that this thread is specifically about these sorts of problems and didn't take that context into consideration before. webrunner's stance of letting this thread go completely free is one I that I now in hindsight agree with.

There isn't any set FIBS Board policy, I guess that might develop as precedents get made, who knows? webrunner has given me the role of global moderator and I'm wearing that hat and figuring out what to do with it as things go along. I also agree that bans should be last resorts, though I think early warnings are sensible.

I didn't see this post before I replied to the last one.  The whole beauty of FIBS is that in spite of all the petulant whining about who is a flamer/abuser/whiner, nobody can do anything about it.  Any attempt to reign in the so-called anarchy of fibs 1. WILL fail, and 2. SHOULD fail.  But the point is, it WILL fail.  So who cares if it SHOULD or not?

Personally, I think if this fibsboard is supposed to be an adjunct to FIBS, the same dynamic should be allowed to persist.  I agree with NIHILIST, that it is well within the rights of the owners / moderators of this message board to play petulant and pick up their ball and go home, but with no disrespect to alef, webrunner, or any TDs, nor indeed to anyone who is offended by free expression, FIBS requires neither moderator, nor profanity filter, and neither does this board.  Adults ought to be able to handle a little discomfort.

I realize your best intentions are at work, alef, but the good Lord has not provided you with the divine ability to determine what is a flame, and what is "sensible".  If this experiment is going to turn into free speech rights interpretation via the Supreme Court of Alef, it's going to be less successful in the long run than it otherwise could, would, and should be.

For the record, this post is intended to be constructive, not a flame, and I appreciate the time and efforts of those who are attempting to "improve" FIBS functionality-wise.  I prefer, however, that the nice-police routine be remanded to alt.moral-majority, where it belongs.

QuoteThe whole beauty of FIBS is that in spite of all the petulant whining about who is a flamer/abuser/whiner, nobody can do anything about it

Sorry to wreck your beauty, but people do get banned and censored on FIBS. don, NIHILIST and many others have previously been banned by Patti. I know one player who was recently banned without any prior warning just for playing a 99 in 1. While the apparently whimsical inconsistent banning does irritate me, I have to acknowledge that Patti runs the server so that is her right.

Personally I'm not advocating any new censoring/banning rules for FIBS. My issues to do with further improving FIBS are things like password retrieval and bot settlement for dropped games. On the whole I think the recent improvements are excellent: I love RepBot, TourneyBot and the sound of burper's new FibsCompanion/local proxy and possible ChouetteBot.

As for my warnings issued here on this Board, I've just been reacting to the fear of seeing it fill with petty personalized wars, which above all are actually quite boring. Luckily though I'd say this Board is filling up with posts which are quite lively and fun!

Quote

QuoteThe whole beauty of FIBS is that in spite of all the petulant whining about who is a flamer/abuser/whiner, nobody can do anything about it

Sorry to wreck your beauty, but people do get banned and censored on FIBS. don, NIHILIST and many others have previously been banned by Patti. I know one player who was recently banned without any prior warning just for playing a 99 in 1. While the apparently whimsical inconsistent banning does irritate me, I have to acknowledge that Patti runs the server so that is her right.

Obviously, my post was not intended to include Patti banning people for playing 99 in 1s.  This is a discussion about what takes place in shout, is it not?

If Patti does not wish to perform the role of morality police, my statement stands -- nobody can do anything about supposed rudeness beyond gagging, toggling silent, or going out in the sun.  And I, for one, am profoundly glad about that.

QuoteAs for my warnings issued here on this Board, I've just been reacting to the fear of seeing it fill with petty personalized wars, which above all are actually quite boring.

Says you!  My first two repbot vouches were for don and NIHILIST.  I'm sure you can all figure out the logic behind that.

This is my point -- you have no divine guidance to make these judgements on behalf of the rest of us.  Given that it is a private messageboard, you have the right to do as you wish, but that which bores you may entertain others or provide them with an insight that may escape you.  If you are going to moderate, please respect that fact, even when you find certain themes tedious, or downright offensive.

Remember the distinction between freedom OF speech and freedom FROM speech.  Which is to be protected at the expense of the other here?

In the end it is Patti who decide what is right and wrong on Fibs.. and you seem to be fine with that.
But isn't that the same for this board?
Alef and me try to be open minded but also we have an ambition to maken that fantastic place called Fibs even better. You might find that annoying and tell us to go somewhere else if we think that Fibs is to rude....
We might say the same to you about this board if you think it is over moderated.

Don't get me wrong soup.. you know that i like you being here (and all other users)  but i am donating my free time and quite some money in the hosting of this board (and Tourneybot and the mgnu-bots) and i do it for fun. I NEVER said this place shoul dbe an "adjunct" to Fibs. It's just a different place for fibsters to hang out, when they get rired of losing BG all the time ;)

Please all keep venting your opinions. I will not censure them, but most profanities are filtered out by the script. This because i can not think of any thing faul words can add to a discussion. Also downright attacks on someone personally are not appreciated (notice that i don't say "not accepted").

QuoteAlso downright attacks on someone personally are not appreciated (notice that i don't say "not accepted").

I appreciate your making the distinction between something being "not appreciated" and "not accepted".  I assume that means that those obvious souls who are included at the crux of this discussion will be allowed to continue to refer to each other directly in general forums without receiving "warnings", or other threats of moderator action.

I do agree that in most specific-topic board forums, there would be little or no reason for individual fibsters to refer to other individual fibsters, but I would throw my backing to the side of greatest possible latitude on the part of mods in most of the general forums.  Are we really going to have to constantly debate what is an appropriate reference to another fibster in, say, the Fibsie Award threads?  You may wind up replacing the tedious with the suicide-inducing.

There is room enough for a focused discussion of resolving the dropper problem, and a completely incoherent, fractured whinefest simultaneously.  I posit this as one of the strengths of the fibs community, not a weakness to be "resolved".

Oh, and monitor is a dropper.  :evil:

QuoteI appreciate your making the distinction between something being "not appreciated" and "not accepted".  I assume that means that those obvious souls who are included at the crux of this discussion will be allowed to continue to refer to each other directly in general forums without receiving "warnings", or other threats of moderator action.

It will be tolerated.. but to a certain point.
I have to draw a line somewhere.. but for now that hasn't been necesary (in my opinion).

It seems that most people already realise that writing something here on the forum is something different then shouting it on fibs.. since the post is there still tomorrow.. for everyone to read.. but the shouts are only noticed by a handfull..

I believe the board will regutale itself, nevertheless i keep an eye open, since i am responsible for this board (although not the content).

It might be added that if you want a more detailed study of the pathologies involved, you could look at http://fibsboard.com/archive/dysfunctional.html (http://fibsboard.com/archive/dysfunctional.html).

    Or, if you like your abnormal psychology on an as-applied basis, you could just read Biggles posts.
 

Webrunner, it's your definition of BETTER that is at the heart of the matter. Alef points out that his ideas of betterment have to do with technical issues. I simply don't believe him. He has shown his MORALITY POLICE colors too often and has zero credibility with yours truly.

What makes your idea of what's BETTER for FIBS the be-all/end-all ? How's this for an IMPROVEMENT; request that Patti completely disable shouts. End of flames, end of abuse, end of profanity.

In all honesty, would you prefer that or leving shouts as they are if those were your only two choices ?



NIHI

NIHI,
Aren't you influencing fibs too whith your shouts and profanities?
Aren't you setting a tone that way.... well.. so do i.
Who says that your opinion should be allowed to be shouted.. and mine not.. that IS ridiculous IMHO.

Why are you guys constantly blaming me and alef for being like a moral police and censoring.. when in fact you are..
Isn't it true that we are saying things that you don't like and that you are trying to shut us up??

I am for freedom of speech..you aren't appearently... :D

I don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone.

Nowhere in all 7 pages of this discussion have I stated or even hinted that my opinion should be shouted and that yours should not. It is ridiculous, and it is even more ridiculous that you should characterize my postings here in the way you did.

I suppose we suspect that you'd like to censor and ban people because you've said so in no uncertain terms. Let me remind you what you wrote when you initiated this discussion regarding language and behavior by zyx that you found offensive;

" I am really getting fed up with these characters and thus i am starting a crusade right here, right now against all the people that are spoiling fibs in my opinion."

You go on to say that you're banning zyx from your tourneys for behavior that's personally offensive to you. That's your right, they're your tourneys, but you can't have it both ways.

You can't ban someone then wonder aloud why anyone would ever think you're acting like a moral cop. If it walks like a duck.........

I also remind you of Alef's warning to me because HE disliked the content of one of my posts here.

It is NOT true that I dislike things you say and am trying to shut you up. I find most of what you two write to be naive and ridiculous, but I've never suggested you be censored and if I wanted to shut you up, I'd simply gag you.

I notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.


NIHI

It seems so strange that some still think that dictatorships can be replaced with democracy. Usually dictators change seats and share the profits of bussiness as usual. Why would fibs top-down structure differ from the real world? The opposition wants to rule this round. What else is new?

Back to backgammon gents.  

Quoteand then i thought "you know, i think at the bottom of all that going on at fibsboard, or at least a very large part of what's being said and not said, is that some players perceive that patti is not enforcing good behavior, standardized bans, etc, because the majority of the transgressors happen to be her friends or people she's on good terms with."

i don't think that is the reason at all!  i think she just either doesn't have the time or doesn't want to take the time to be playground supervisor to the kgb! :rolleyes:

socksey




"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it." - Woody Allen

from PortWine

QuoteSo people want to complain about certain people on fibs right now? Sure some of what people say it is definately rude and over the top. Some of it might border on a warning from Patti or a temporary suspension. But you want to talk about things that should get you banned? Take EVERYONE from that 9/11 log who said something so cute and clever and ban them forever.

when 9/11 happened, i was in texas in a hospital waiting room.  my step-dad had been in a very bad accident a couple of days before and was barely clinging to life.  when the crisis was over, and i was home again, someone told me about the shouts on 9/11.  at that time, we could access fibs shouts, so i brought them up and read them.

port, i was horrified!  it is beyond comprehension that some people can be so cruel and unfeeling and i couldn't agree with you more.  it was truely the worst day of fibs history that i'm aware of.

socksey




Make yourself familiar with the angels and behold them frequently in spirit;  for without being seen, they are present with you. - St. Francis De Sales

Thank you Socks.  I am no great fan of the thought police, but I am also less of a fan of people who cheer on terrorists. :angry:  

from NIHILIST:

QuoteI notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.

you didn't read enough.  this has been addressed and readdressed many times.  it would seem, we can't live with it, and we can't live without it.  the answer is, that there is no answer, there is only the search!

socksey




Astronomers say the universe is finite, which is not a very comforting thought for those people who can't remember where they leave things. - Unknown

from NIHILIST:

QuoteI don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone

you have many tones, nihi.  most of them seem rude, offensive, and having great shock value at first look.  i suppose one could use a shock if one were having a heart attack.  however, to give you your real due, i must admit, i have witnessed some excellent tone influencing on fibs when you were a giver and a teacher, i.e., history lessons, serious politiaca debate, computer technology sharing, music sharing, sharewaring, etc.

knowing you has been like riding on a rollercoaster.  one never knows whether one will be climbing to the top and sailing onward and upward or whether one will break through a barrier only to crash and burn.

so, yes, i would say you do set a kind of tone.  i'd prefer more sailing.

socksey




"Life's most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?" - Martin Luther King

from souptree:

QuoteThere is room enough for a focused discussion of resolving the dropper problem, and a completely incoherent, fractured whinefest simultaneously. I posit this as one of the strengths of the fibs community, not a weakness to be "resolved".

Oh, and monitor is a dropper.Ã,  FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=firedevil.gif"

i still say..............DEATH TO DROPPERS!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

socksey




Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers

souptree, the souper douper pooper scooper, wrote:

QuoteSays you! My first two repbot vouches were for don and NIHILIST. I'm sure you can all figure out the logic behind that.

you whine and b---h, moan and groan because repbot is unreliabl!.  you know it is true!  you ARE the the cause and effect.

i love u anyway.   :wub:

socksey




"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries." - A. A. Milne

from souptree:

QuotePersonally, I think if this fibsboard is supposed to be an adjunct to FIBS, the same dynamic should be allowed to persist. I agree with NIHILIST, that it is well within the rights of the owners / moderators of this message board to play petulant and pick up their ball and go home, but with no disrespect to alef, webrunner, or any TDs, nor indeed to anyone who is offended by free expression, FIBS requires neither moderator, nor profanity filter, and neither does this board. Adults ought to be able to handle a little discomfort.

adults, yes.  however, we are the internet.  we have children here, too.

please don't forget the children.  we can't keep them out.  how shall we influence them?  

but why would anyone choose to inflict discomfort on anyone, adult or child?  what is the point?  why destroy something when you can build something beautiful?  are we a bunch of sadomasochists here?  i don't get it.

socksey




"Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply have their bright ideas closer together." - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

deanlikeafrenchman says:

QuoteThe most useful posts have been about the nature of anarchy. Its an abstract
thesis topic, not a lifestyle. If you have a whole bunch of anarchy in your life, the
phrase "short, nasty, harsh and brutal" is only the beginning. But small doses of
anarchy can show you a lot. Thus we have the gloriously dysfunctional fibs, with
fraudulent ratings, bellowed nonsense, oafish boasting, authority figure looking the other way, shocking language, and everything. Visit it, learn from it, be glad its a
good window, in at least some ways, on how not to be.

Have I told you about dailygammon?

i wish i had said that!

i regularly play on dailygammon, but not as "socksey".  it's where i go to have a higher rating, and to be quiet.   :P

socksey




"The world is my lobster." - Henry J. Tillman

QuoteI don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone.

Nowhere in all 7 pages of this discussion have I stated or even hinted that my opinion should be shouted and that yours should not. It is ridiculous, and it is even more ridiculous that you should characterize my postings here in the way you did.

I suppose we suspect that you'd like to censor and ban people because you've said so in no uncertain terms. Let me remind you what you wrote when you initiated this discussion regarding language and behavior by zyx that you found offensive;

" I am really getting fed up with these characters and thus i am starting a crusade right here, right now against all the people that are spoiling fibs in my opinion."

You go on to say that you're banning zyx from your tourneys for behavior that's personally offensive to you. That's your right, they're your tourneys, but you can't have it both ways.

You can't ban someone then wonder aloud why anyone would ever think you're acting like a moral cop. If it walks like a duck.........

I also remind you of Alef's warning to me because HE disliked the content of one of my posts here.

It is NOT true that I dislike things you say and am trying to shut you up. I find most of what you two write to be naive and ridiculous, but I've never suggested you be censored and if I wanted to shut you up, I'd simply gag you.

I notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.


NIHI

NIHI.. if you quote me at least do it right.
I cannot ban people from tourney's since i am not a Tourney Diriector.
I said i banned zyx from the bots.

I did this because of the insane way he verbally attacked me an Kari Grandi, using the most terrible language i have come across.
This is what i started a fight against.. and i will keep on doing that.
For me this kind of attack is a sign of weakness and lack of intellegence.. since it looks like you cannot attack or defend with normal language.

And about the disabling of shouts: you still don't get it.. i don't mind the shouts, yells and even arguments.. i love them even!
I like to have a heated discussion sometimes in shouts.. but you will never see me telling someone to ....do some stuff to his/her dead mother.. etc. etc.

This to me is outragious.. and if you can't understand that and call me a moral cop when i try to keep shouts like this out of Fibs.. then so be it! See if i care.....
If that makes you feel more confident about yourself and gives you an excuse to keep shouting your profanities.. go ahead..

I am just glad what i have reached with this topic so far................. :)

Quoteadults, yes.  however, we are the internet.  we have children here, too.

please don't forget the children.  we can't keep them out.  how shall we influence them?

Simply, it's not the job of an online backgammon site to ensure parents are overseeing their children.  They'll see worse at any newsstand or on prime time television anyway.  You cannot alter the degradation of culture via the fibs shout window.  It's just an absurd endeavor.  It's also not like you are talking about 5 year olds.  There are no 5 year olds on fibs, and 13 year olds know more dirty words than you.

BTW, has it ever occurred to you that maybe some of those kids are actually smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong for themselves?  Give them some credit to feel the same way about it that you do.  I'm pretty sure socksey has managed to be a fibster this long without going out on her porch and yelling sandnigger at the top of her lungs, and some of those kids might be able to do the same thing.

There are a lot of good lessons provided by fibs if you look for them, even for kids.  There is much in life that the negativity of is best demonstrated by excess.

The reality is that the world is an ugly, coarse place full of the cruel, and mean-spirited (as well as those who only play them on, uh, TV).  You can't censor that, even with a profanity filter.  The world isn't flowers and bunnies just because you look away from the ugly.

Face it, folks.  The lowest common denominator is not something you can avoid.  Why not just try to see the beauty in the profane as well?  You may not like what zyx shouts much, but you have to confess, the guy's got a talent!  Admit it, woxsus: you have even laughed too, on occasion. Maybe we should influence them by teaching them that laughter is more powerful than self-righteous indignation.

Quotei love u anyway.

socksey loves me!!!  :inlove:  :giveflower:  :hartarrow:  :kiss2:  :hartsbump:  :kisshart:  

Quoteyou whine and b---h, moan and groan because repbot is unreliabl!.  you know it is true!  you ARE the the cause and effect.

I do NOT, and have NEVER complained about repbot being unreliable.  I have stated that it is, but it's really not a complaint.  I never saw a need for repbot for anyone who is around a lot to avoid droppers.  My point was more that it is unnecessary than that it was unreliable.  How hard is it to not play 1900s with 500 exp, and to not play garykay?  Is it a useful tool for newbies to avoid droppers?  Probably, but I always considered the difficult parts of the fibs learning curve to be a good thing.  I kind of like the survivalism requirement.  At least fibs is, for the most part, a place not crawling with the thin-skinned.  Do we really want to see the day where newbies don't resi b to get their opponents to move?  I've often found that those who laugh at being had by that gag quickly become known and valued members of the [community | snakepit].  Some people realize, "hey, I'm home!"

Anyway, just to clarify that while there are many who DO complain about the popularity contest usage of repbot, I was never one of them.  In fact, I find it the most entertaining, and thereby "useful" feature of it.  Repbot is certainly doing a great job of articulating social Darwinism in real time.  Just ask Biggles!

It's also providing valuable insights for those working on the problem it is intended to solve.  Programmers should want troublemakers trying to break their systems!  I know people who are paid good money to do the kinds of things fibsters do for free daily, just to piss each other off.

souptree says:

QuoteSimply, it's not the job of an online backgammon site to ensure parents are overseeing their children. They'll see worse at any newsstand or on prime time television anyway. You cannot alter the degradation of culture via the fibs shout window. It's just an absurd endeavor. It's also not like you are talking about 5 year olds. There are no 5 year olds on fibs, and 13 year olds know more dirty words than you.

i was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me.  when she is in fibs, i literally cringe when i see some of zyx's and others shouts although i sometimes find them entertaining, personally.  come on.  is this the kind of thing you want your 9 yr old to hear/see?  i dont think so.  hey, i'm a mom. excuse me all to hell, but i don't like the little ones being influenced like this!  it's never going to be right from my perspective.

and all the other you added is just yada yada yada.

socksey

p.s.  well, u were the one who said you vouched for NIHILIST. :wacko:




A house can burn up as it burns down?

Webrunner, thanks for the clarification. You didn't ban zyx from tourneys, you DID ban him from your bots because of behavior disagreeable TO YOU, but you aren't a moral cop.

You believe in free speech but take offense when someone suggests you're a wannabe censor "when i try to keep shouts like this out of Fibs."

You are precisely what I accused you of being, and I'd be willing to wager that the next time some neo-fascist organization takes root in Europe, you'll be the one with the matches at the book-burnings.

NIHI

QuoteA board full of flamewars is not something we all are looking for and i will prevent that from happening. Until then.. go ahead and continue the discussion in this thread, as long as you keep the language clean.

I think webrunner made the position clear a while back.  He doesn't want this to turn into FIBS-Flame Board, but he is willing to let some conversations run their course.

I really don't believe FIBS should be made safe for children, nor could it be.  There are times that I don't want my child in the same room as me when adults are talking, or when there are certain programs on TV.  Does that mean I should go around and try to make the world safe for her?  I think people who try to change everything to fit their idea of right and wrong are 2 steps away from being Nazis.  I would never let her use FIBS until she was much older, or only with chat and shout off.

But in truth, and we have a lot of teachers on FIBS that can back this up, FIBS is no worse than what she will hear the first time she takes a school bus to school.

That being said, webrunner has the difficult job of trying to keep things in reason, and everbody else can continue to complain (I wrote another word "######" - so you can guess what I said).  As far as I've seen no one has been censored yet. (except me just now! - lol)  Let's give webrunner a break Nihi.  You definately have a point, but again, so far no one has really been censored.

Agreed.

NIHI

Quotei was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me.  when she is in fibs, i literally cringe when i see some of zyx's and others shouts although i sometimes find them entertaining, personally.  come on.  is this the kind of thing you want your 9 yr old to hear/see?

The day my 9 year old has access to the fibs shout window is the day I hope the state comes and takes my children away from me.  Any parent allowing a 9 year old to roam free on the net without supervision is guilty of abuse, pure and simple.

Is it too much to ask people to oversee their own children?  You can forgive me, I hope, if I don't feel the responsibilty to compensate for the failure of parents to regulate what their children have access to.

In the 8 years I've been here, fibs has NEVER been a good place for a 9 year old.  Maybe you should ask your friend to have her mommy contact you so you can explain to her how to disable shouts on her kid's computer.  Wouldn't that be SLIGHTLY more effective than attempting to get zyx to tone it down?

no, i'm afraid not.  i tried.  i'm done with the subject.  let your conscience be your guide is what my daddy always said.  i guess i have more conscience than some, but if anyone has noticed, i have toned down myself in shouts.  i guess i shouldn't expect that anyone else would, just because i thought, whatever....   :(

socksey




(courtesy of NIHILIST)  make the best out of a bad joke, laugh it up; you didnt have to come here anyway...............rod stewart

souptree wrote:

QuoteThe day my 9 year old has access to the fibs shout window is the day I hope the state comes and takes my children away from me.

souper,

this statement reminds me of something i have thought or said before i realized (painfully) that we can't control our children 24/7 like i said to someone else on this subject.  don't tell me you can.  i know better, sweetie.  much as we would like to and much as we would like to think they aren't in the same room with us (as adults on fibs), they are there and so i hope you will remember that when you see or utter some of the filthiest things i have ever heard in my life, that these are the things we are teaching our children, our leaders of tomorrow.

socksey




"You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle-aged woman. Stuff you pay good money for in later life." - Elmo Phillips  

Quoteour leaders of tomorrow

If any of the leaders of tomorrow are fibsters, we are doomed.

W would have been a fibster, if it was around way back then.

QuoteNIHI,
Aren't you influencing fibs too whith your shouts and profanities?
Aren't you setting a tone that way.... well.. so do i.
Who says that your opinion should be allowed to be shouted.. and mine not.. that IS ridiculous IMHO.

Why are you guys constantly blaming me and alef for being like a moral police and censoring.. when in fact you are..
Isn't it true that we are saying things that you don't like and that you are trying to shut us up??

I am for freedom of speech..you aren't appearently... :D

NIHI wants things to be so free that you get this:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&...ames.backgammon (http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=bk5lc.6424%24lG6.4838%40pathologist.blueyonder.net&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Drec.games.backgammon)

r.g.b. has become totally useless and irrelevant.
I prefer fibsboard.com by miles :)

I don't see any great relevance here either. It tends to be the same 6 people telling each other how wonderful they are. Neither Fibsboard nor rgb are any great resource except that occasionally rgb offers up a backgammon problem for discussion.

I participated in this discussion because webrunner mentioned my name in a negative context in the first post of this thread. If webrunner had been honest and said that, if he ran FIBS he'd ban everyone using profanity, and ban anyone who exhibited bad behavior from using his precious bots, I wouldn't have bothered.

But I couldn't resist the urge to expose his hypocrisy. Every time he denied being a moral cop or censor he dug himself into a deeper hole.

The result was this huge discussion of a supposed problem that has no solution anyway since Marvin isn't parting with the FIBS code. And since none of you seem to like my idea of disabling FIBS shouts, something that Patti probably COULD do, I suggest you all move on and toggle STFU.


NIHI

I guess you see what you want to see, and put a blinder on to all the rest.

QuoteI participated in this discussion because webrunner mentioned my name in a negative context in the first post of this thread. If webrunner had been honest and said that, if he ran FIBS he'd ban everyone using profanity, and ban anyone who exhibited bad behavior from using his precious bots, I wouldn't have bothered.

But I couldn't resist the urge to expose his hypocrisy. Every time he denied being a moral cop or censor he dug himself into a deeper hole.

NIHI,

I am really flabbergasted by your last post.  :wacko:

I don't know where you get the idea that i would ban anyone using profanity.
It looks like you can't even afford a pair of reading glasses.
I explicetely (sp?) said that was not the case, yet you keep shouting that i would.
I have yet to read a good motivation for this syntheses.

I have said it numerous times.. i don't want to ban people.....in fact.. i have unbanned zyx from the bots a long time ago and i have banned no one so far from this forum or the bots.

The thing i will always prefer and what i tried to accomplish is a change if behaviour of certain people. And don't act like that is a crime!
As humans we all have a tendency to try to change our surroundings to our standards. Sorry for being Human!!
BTW: You arguing with me shows that you do the same thing.


If i where to have the control over FIBS i would prolly ban less people then Patti does, anly maybe for some other reasons.

As for my "precious" bots, wich are in fact just some processes on one of my servers, everone uses them and no one is banned (anymore) for weeks.

Lets Face it NIHI.. my post worked.. and i have accomplished my goals. :hungry:
They are just different goals then you want other people to believe i have (and maybe even yourself).  

Lets all make fibs a better place (whatever that may be).
:beer:

The snosberries taste like snosberries!

I love this thread because it makes me feel better about myself!

I suggest we set up a certain thread called "flame here".  We can all go in there and just say blah blah blah!  Oh, I 'm sorry, we have that already its called SHOUT!

Being serious for a moment (not my strong suit) I think you do a great job webrunner.  If somebody doesn't like the job you are doing you should refund their money!

I love this place, you just keep stepping deeper and deeper into it; " i don't want to ban people.....in fact.. i have unbanned zyx from the bots "

I think this one, John Kerry-like statement of yours sums up the entire thread.

Keep up the mediocre work.

NIHI

Whats wrong with that statement NIHI?
He said he doesn't want to ban, but admits to banning apparently as a last resort.
You be as nice as you can, but at the same time, don't let people walk all over you.
It's a bummer that we have to imprison members of society that break the rules, but I'm all for doing it.

I actually voted for John Kerry.... before I voted against him.

I have nothing really to add.  Just trying to get above awful status.  I'm shameless!


:puke:  

Quotei was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me.  when she is in fibs, i literally cringe when i see some of zyx's and others shouts although i sometimes find them entertaining, personally.  come on.  is this the kind of thing you want your 9 yr old to hear/see?  i dont think so.  hey, i'm a mom. excuse me all to hell, but i don't like the little ones being influenced like this!  it's never going to be right from my perspective.

and all the other you added is just yada yada yada.

socksey

p.s.  well, u were the one who said you vouched for NIHILIST. :wacko:




A house can burn up as it burns down?

Sox,

I hate to burst your bubble, but Mookie isn't really a 9 year old girl

QuoteI have nothing really to add.  Just trying to get above awful status.  I'm shameless!


:puke:

11 more to go PW
After that go for casual player ;)

As for NIHI's post: thanx Burper for making it clear.
But it looks like NIHI isn't really in to logic but just looking for a way to critisize me.
I'm amazed ha hasn't critisized my english typing yet. But he prolly keeping that card up his sleef.

Oh well...  :sleepey:  

Yes, the irony is, that he is much like don in that way.
Not that there's anything wrong with it ;)

Awful.  I am still awful.  Who came up with these level of post names because they are, well, awful.  How many more posts till I am not awful anymore?

Well, webrunner had told you 11 more to go the point of your last post.  His rating system is explained clearly somewhere on here - topic is 'title thing in the info dealy' - also in this forum - go read it Port - we have all had a moan!! :)

Oh I saw them, but if I didn't write a stupid comment like this I would never get above awful.  See, I'm going it again.

And isn't this much better than all the name calling?  I'm feeling more peacful this morning.   :D  

Careful, PostBot is watching!

Now let's see if we can get this thread to the 10 page mark!

I am all for working towards that....but - oh, two goals at once - i need to use my posts far less efficiently!!

QuoteAs for NIHI's post: thanx Burper for making it clear.

But it looks like NIHI isn't really in to logic but just looking for a way to critisize me.
I'm amazed ha hasn't critisized my english typing yet. But he prolly keeping that card up his sleef.

Burper made it clear? :wacko:

NIHI is the one into criticizing!  I'm the one into spelling, not typing errors.  criticize (also criticise acceptable),  probably (slang prolly acceptable in informal writing), sleeve.

:lol:    :P

socksey




"Life is all about ass, you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, or trying to get a piece of it." - author unknown

erm, criticise (criticize acceptable) you mean - surely??? :P

And when i can type in dutch with as few errors - i will start criticising :)  

Looking at this thread there seems to be no general requirements for the right to criticize.  Logic, decorum, common sense, etc. - gone!  No shirt, no shoes, no problem!

QuoteLooking at this thread there seems to be no general requirements for the right to criticize.  Logic, decorum, common sense, etc. - gone!  No shirt, no shoes, no problem!

Hi, Port, and welcome to FIBS!

Speaking of lacking logic, decorum and common sense, where is Zorbafat on this thread?

I notice that I joined Fibsboard on April 3 as number 1216 and Souptree joined the next day as number 1228.  That means at least 12 people were so interested in what I had to say that they joined!

Could it be?   :wacko:  

I think the last few posts have been very mild and maybe have change the flow of this threads intent.  Accordingly, I would like to see more complaints and flames!

Let me start.  I was playing a match with Wyzzz the other day and he doubled on me.  Since we are friends I think it was mean of him to do that.  Friends don't double on friends.  I now refuse to play him!    :wacko:  

PortWine, STFU you ignorant slut.

Cool, this is what I was hoping for!

STFU = sure thing for U ?

Thanks burper and STFU! :puke:  

really funny.... NOT!

:no:  

Are you trying to censor us?  I sense a post from NIHILIST any second now....... :o  

No.. just giving my opinion on the quality of the last two posts.
I didn't remove or change any words didn't i?

:shutup:  

Just having some good natured fun!   :rolleyes:  

:2drunk:

Ok then  :D  

Quote

Quotei was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me. 

Sox,

I hate to burst your bubble, but Mookie isn't really a 9 year old girl

WHOA! If that's what socksey thought, what does it mean that she keeps shouting about that she's waving her toes at me?  I shudder to think!

mookie, who will someday post a long and thoughtful note but who is currently lobbying webrunner for a "Name Shuggie's Sister" poll

is some one can explain me what means STFU ?
(it's not a joke ! i understand it must be irreverent but, as polite french i don't know what does it mean !)
i guess the FU ... but ST ?

shut the F up, i.e. be quiet
is it fe me la bush?

fermé la bouche
or
ta geulle!

;)

Ferme la Bush being the current pun on that little saying  :)  

This is a great thread, and perhaps thats' why it has so been so popular. I think it is quite useful to 'get it all out in the open' here on fibsboard. Many nasty things are said on fibs, and I think this is the perfect place to resolve some of these issues. If you read back over this thread, you will see people starting out very nasty, but then gradually reaching some understanding and making light of the situation. I think this is healthy and will help FIBS.

:o   hey mano.... STFU= ferme ta gueule....va te faire sodomiser (version catholique).....ecrase... tu me fais ch...     et bien dáutres traductiond possibles... toutes plus outrageantes les unes ou les autres... :lol:  

Am I Webbies Boss??? No, No, No, Adrian. But I still am flabbergasped cause of your questions last night.( posted below) I do feel you are a real die-hard-community-member wich i respect. But I, tend to see these virtual contacts i have during play, for what they are; virtual! Since 70% of our communication, in real life, is non-verbal. Here, we only have the typed words and typos to lead us. So after my own personal experiences with some of the finest bullies here on fibs, i try to just play and be freindly to my opp. No more, no less. Hope u can respect my choices.

I know some community-members like to have controle. Even on how players should 'act' here on fibs. I think thats normal for neurotic minds, not for anarchistic BG-players. Does fibs need a morality-police? There are several it seems and i can only hope there once will be as many as there are players online:)

Cheers

You kibitz: Hi adrian , good luck
adrian kibitzes: Hello baldwin
adrian kibitzes: why are you a senior member on fibsboard?
You kibitz: :-)
adrian kibitzes: :-|
You kibitz: is that important
adrian kibitzes: no
You kibitz: u just wondred i guess
adrian kibitzes: I understood why the others are, but why you. That`s why i asked.
You kibitz: compared with "the others" u dont see any reason
You kibitz: i dont know who the others are btw, never looked at it
adrian kibitzes: are you the boss of webbie?
adrian kibitzes: that is the only reason left
You kibitz: well u gave it a thought it seems and i dont even know U
You kibitz: kinda strange
adrian kibitzes: I`m adria stefan lengyel, 38 age, male, from romania, soft drinker, I love women and bg
adrian kibitzes: and I also smoke
adrian kibitzes: I have a wife, who gives me awesome bj, two kids, 2 parents, 1 grandparent.
adrian kibitzes: and I`m a boss at Rompetrol in Romania.
adrian kibitzes: That`s me.
You kibitz: ok
adrian kibitzes: :-)
You kibitz: should write a book
adrian kibitzes: :-|
adrian kibitzes: & Im also tired, from work, and already drinked 4 beers
You kibitz: u have another nick aswell, with part of ur last name in it ?
adrian kibitzes: aslengyel, unused since march
You kibitz: tell me, why are the 'others'senior members?
adrian kibitzes: shortly: they gave something to either fibs and/or fibsboard
You kibitz: 'gave'
You kibitz: congrats

adrian: ty VM Baldwin
You: tell me; gave like a addition to the game or the server? or gave
money?
adrian: game and server (as far as I know)
adrian: and 2 the community as well
You: well adrian, you seem very kind noticing not any reason why
i should fit in there somewhere, thank u for that
adrian: :-), still no straight answer.
adrian: ty baldwin
You: u seem to think u can demand answers to questions , asked
without ? what ? reason.... bye
adrian: no, I`m just wondering, as u said, bye and seeya soon again

So, baldwin, why ARE you a senior member of Fibsboard?   :P  Hope you were courteous enough to ask adrian's permission to post his chat.   ;)  

socksey



ââ,¬Å"A psychologist once said that we know little about the conscience except that it is soluble in alcohol." - Thomas Blackburn

I know, but I am sure he will tell if he wants  :D  

Well, thank u Diane for making my point; ofcourse U know. And it aint no big secret either. Just the way I was asked for it give me absolutely no reason to tell.

Actually Webbrunner kinda 'threw it in with the fibs-T-shirt' when I, while agoo, donated few euros for maintaining the server/board. Simple. I even had to ask what SM ment and hey, I liked the bar under my name.  :cool: Never used, or missused the extras that came with it so... It only brought me Adrians attention sofar lol.

Cheers foolks ^_^  

To be fair, I think sometimes language issues come into play here - particularly with Adrian.  I have had some misunderstandings with him along the way - which later were completely resolved.  I think sometimes he doesnt quite come across as saying what he means.  Just an observation.  :)

Hope you can also resolve this one - I would bet he didnt mean anything by it....

QuoteNever used, or missused the extras that came with it so... It only brought me Adrians attention sofar lol.

I am, pretty damn sure, baldwin isn't implying that there are any priviledges attached to being a "senior member"! Simple language issue has come into play here!!  :rolleyes:

But if there are "extras" ........... where do I make the cash drop off?? B)  :P  

.....mmmm Now you say,  guess there arent any 'extras' mrbond. Thought there was a start/remove topics one.... guess not. Never looked at it...  <_<

But you can always try leaving a well filled envelope under board #13 ;)  

cheers

As always, a language barrier  leads to slight misunderstadings. Hopefully no one got hurt. ( Think in romanian, write in english. Try it viceversa)
My appologies for any hurt feelings.

Adrian

Bye 2 all my friends

About donations: http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Help&CODE=01&HID=19 (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Help&CODE=01&HID=19)

and about senior membership http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Help&CODE=01&HID=18 (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=Help&CODE=01&HID=18)

"Next Time"

Funny thing that webrunner....there always appears to be a "next time"..ever wondered why Netgammon is becoming more and more popular?

It's about time that the administrators in fibs stopped sitting on their hands and did something proactive regarding abusers of the site.

Still why let the facts ruin a good argument.........

I am not a fibs administrator Frostie, get your facts straight.
This forum is my contribution to the fibs community, nothing more and nothing less.

"It's about time that the administrators in fibs"

Pray tell where did i refer to you as an administrator of fibs?

My facts are straight enough, your assumptions are way, i say way off beam old chap.
:blink:  

Hello Everyone,

I would just like to say that I've only been playing on fibs for a few months here but for the most part it has been a very enjoyable experience. There are jerks everywhere and that will not change. I choose to ignore them and let it roll of my shoulder. I don't waste time on the aggrevation.

What I would like to say is THANK YOU to the people who put the time and energy into this site for everyone's enjoyment. It is appreciated. Backgammon is a very fun game that makes you think whether you win or lose. The dice roll what they roll its how it is played that will win the game.

So lets all just get along and play nice. To quote the great John Lennon "Give Peace a Chance".

Play and enjoy!!

Thanks again to the fibs staff and it's been great meeting all the people that I would have never met in my everyday real life. Take care everyone and be nice, lets not be children on a playground but mature adults that treat others the way they would like to be treated.

Amen, and welcome - I havent met you for a match yet, I shall look out  :cool:

i played BG, too. It's very cool! i love it! :) (http://breastenlargementpittsburgh.com/blog-pittsburgh-pa)

thanks, hartkegirl, for reminding us (by connecting to this 7 year old thread) that hot topics at FIBS and at FIBSboard are not something new

in addition to giving peace a chance, i hope you and jaytourist will join us in any of our regularly scheduled tourneys at FIBS .. you can access the schedule (http://www.fibsboard.com/general-chit-chat/fibs-tournament-schedule/msg22483/#msg22483) anytime from our home page (see the left most column for Tourneys schedule)

Quote from: Mookie on April 13, 2004, 05:49:03 PM
Wow.  5 pages of responses to this thread?  I must be doing something wrong.  I don't think I've ever been on fibs in my 9 years where it hasn't been a hoot.  I enjoy the "real" political debates, the fake debates, the witticisms, the humorous threads, the flirtations, and, truth be told, even the backgammon itself.  Snakepit stuff?: I learned to ignore that stuff back in grade school and here, with gag functions (as my friend diane keeps telling us), it's even easier.  And I count on that gag function to work for all of you if I'm having a bad day and let my immature side show for a moment (or ten).  By all means, "tell" me and othes when you think a line has been crossed.  I think most of the common shouters are more than happy to reflect on reasonable requests and expectations.

Now, would someone agree to actually find out why honeygirl hates me?

your friend,

mookie

p.s. VOUCH MOOKIE

I think mookie had the right idea...........

socksey



Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate - Sigmund Freud