Hi!
i submit you here a petiton about FIBS.
http://www.physik.fu-berlin.de/~lelli/campaign.html
Maybe some know already others don't , but, this is how it goes.
Some limitations to your freedom are applied if your connecting IP belongs to Italy.
For the ones who don't know the facts, the timeline and the actual state of things, this is a brief sketch (up to my knowledge):
THE FACTS: Italian based IP players aren't allowed to play against each other.
REASON: Some italian players (note: citizenship and not IP range related) abused in the past of the FIBS platform, cheating, harassing the FIBS maintainer, using multiple nicknames to raise their rating.
You can explore more and form your own ideas about it, reading the threads below:
"Stupid FIBS rule" http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php/topic,791.0.html
"Why are people so vindictive?" http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php/topic,810.html
The clear enlightening text written by Magowiz ("Preventing Italians to play each other") http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php/topic,920.0/all.html
Now, there are several obvious and less obvious reasons why all this should change at last.
In details, I (and i'm sure many other users do agree) believe in the ineffectualness of the employed technical measure, in the inequity of the prohibition, in the groundlessness of actual situation, from all civil and comportamental points of view, and last but not the least, in the hatefulness of an avalanche and subtle effect that this prohibition is causing. Italians are now seen as cheaters as a whole, as a population (depending on the IQ of your conversation partner. Try it out yourself in the public chat !!!).
I do also trust in the deeply liberal values of the FIBS mantainer, who will rely on them not to keep on straightfowardly refusing our queries and dwelling his mind on the past.
If you wish to sustain this campaign, please, contact the maintainer (Patti Beadles), spread the text or link it in your webpage.
The purpose is just to make FIBS a better place to be in.
Thanks. :)
This horse has already been ridden to death, and Patti has not been moved to change her mind as yet. :ohmy: I really think no amount of talk, or petition, of which I saw none, will matter. :unhappy: It is only a manner or harrassing Patti further which will certainly do no good. :huh: I suggest you let it be. :sleep:
socksey
"If you can learn from hard knocks, you can also learn from soft touches." - Carolyn Kenmore
Hi all! I still do not understand the meaning of "you cannot play with users of your own site". A site, as everyone of us knows, is a site, not a Nation or a State. If Miss Patty dont think changing her opinion about ban a whole nation, I gently ask to change the message from *site* to the correct one *state*. :yes:
If Mrs. Patti still have problems with user/users with italian ip, she can send the logs to the italian postal police or to the abuse organization, which is worldwide, as everyone of us know. :)
Fibs is a nice place for me to spend my time, certainly different from yahoo or msn's backgammon. I thought that i was a free place, with normal and obviously rules where people from every part of the world can meet together. I still ask myself a thing: if in a tourney both of the finalists are italian, what should happen? They, we cannot play against each other. Will win the third one? One of the italian finalists has to go abroad to play the game? :frusty:
As everyone cansee my score, i play for fun, not for being the best or the worst, this doesn't matter much to me, i would like only to play freely against everyone. I can use for instance proxy, in order to bypass this rule, but i'm not willing to use this solution, 'cause i don't have nothing to hide.
I'm sorry if I feel rude in my words, but I still cannot understand this solution that has been taken. I read that Patti still has problems with a user, maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think that if a person or two is idiot, a whole nation has to pay for him/them. Changing opinion is the best way to show everyone to be openminded and intelligent. Best Regards to everyone!
Ciao Neurino,
hai dimenticato ;) il mio post precedente quello di Magowiz... lol (poco!)
ed una breve discussione su backgammon.it ed un paio sul forum Euit.
Roba vecchia..
Lascia perdere anche se.., puoi venire con noi nel nostro Team e ti levi la voglia di fare tornei individuali e per squadre: nazionali, europei e mondiali..(Tandem, ZCS, Q Series..) il nostro non e' un piccolo mondo ;)
Traduzione= translation
Hi Neurino,
you forgot ;) my thread, I posted it before Magowiz's one.... lol (not so much!)
and a short discussion on backgammon.it and 2/3 threads on Euit forum.
Is an old old story..
Take it easy even if.. you can enter our Team and you can play single events and team events: tourneys in our Country, European and World Wide too.. (Tandem, ZCS, Q Series..) our is not a little village ;)
II parte domani = II part tomorrow
II parte: un'occasione perduta
Con la chiusura di Zone il Popolo del BG on line si e' trovato disorientato (tutti i tornei piu' importanti come Medallion e QSeries.., i Nostri tornei EU ed IT ed i giocatori piu' bravi erano li). Anche noi, come Team sia EU che IT, ci siamo messi a cercare "Casa". Discussioni sul forum e.. si va su Club Games, dove abbiamo una nostra room, ed anche su WGC.. tutti (EU_, PAL, Lions, BR_ etc..). Poi problemi di server e si deve scegliere un altro sito che si adatti alla nostre esigenze (partite libere, tornei mensili solo IT + EU sia individuali che a squadra + quelli mondiali).
Tanti nomi, anche Fibs ma.. no grazie! Non e' adatto a noi.
Abbiamo scelto Rengames, abbiamo le nostre rooms e dimenticavo.. siamo 800 circa in tutta Europa, facciamo li o su WGC (anche TMG o GS etc) le nostre partite. Se vuoi far parte del Team..
Lascia perdere non ne vale la pena.
Mi dispiace tanto, sono un "vecchio fibster".. ma l'occasione e' perduta.
Claudio
II part: lost occasion
When Zone closed the People of BG on line was confused (the most important Tourneys as Medallion, QSeries, etc.., Our EU_ and IT_ tourneys and the strongest players where there). We too, as Team EU_ and IT_ , were looking for a new "Home". Disciussions in the forum and.. we go on Club Games, where we have our own room, and on WGC too.. all (EU_, PAL, Lions, BR_ etc..). Than we get some problems with the server and we have to choose another site usefull for us (free matches, monthly tourrneys IT_Only or EU_Only for single player and teams + the world wide toruneys).
A lot of names, Fibs too but.. no thanks! Is not usefull for us.
We choosed Rengames, we have our own rooms and I forgot.. we are about 800 in all Europe and we play there or on WGC (TMG or GS etc..) our matches. If you want enter the Team..
Keep it off is insignificant.
I'm very very sorry, I'm an "old Fibster" ..but the occasion is lost.
Claudio
Quote from: socksey on March 13, 2007, 09:58:52 PM
This horse has already been ridden to death, and Patti has not been moved to change her mind as yet. :ohmy: I really think no amount of talk, or petition, of which I saw none, will matter. :unhappy: It is only a manner or harrassing Patti further which will certainly do no good. :huh: I suggest you let it be. :sleep:
socksey
Hi socksey,
(1) have you ever asked Patti, why hasn't she moved yet?
(2) what is your personal opinion about? Your opinion about the specific points, i raise in the other thread?
(3) what if turns out that the majority of Fibsters, let's say at least 65% (i'm generous), believe that the ban should be at last removed?
(4) last but not least, in which way am i harrassing Patti? In which way people who sent her a mail explaining their beliefs, are harrassing her? Being administrator of a community, is a powerful and task full of responsability. Critics are a part of it. Arent' they welcome?
neurino
Quote from: claudio_first on March 18, 2007, 11:20:52 AM
II part: lost occasion
When Zone closed....[cut]...
....A lot of names, Fibs too but.. no thanks! Is not usefull for us.
...[cut]....
I'm very very sorry, I'm an "old Fibster" ..but the occasion is lost.
Claudio
Hi Claudio,
i saw your old posts, i digged deeply into the net trying to get the whole story of the ban against Italians. You, first generation of Fibsters came before me. It didn't work? Shame! Maybe we'll be luckier.
Everything changes, and, if we won't be successfull, at least something will be cristalline and evident for everybody:
perhaps Fibs isn't maintained the best way it could be. Perhaps Patti Beadles is unfit for this task and is taking over of Fibs as an impartial referee should never do. Thanks for redirecting me to other servers, by the way, i'll check them out.
Peace, stay tuned, and don't say "it's worthless", otherwise we better quit playing backgammon.
:)
neurino
neurino.
Your questions (1), (2), (3), (4) were pretty well answered in the quote you gave from what I already said. You're a newbie so you haven't been around to hear all that has gone on before. When someone has been given an answer and yet continues to rag on the same thing, that amounts to harrassment. Patti has been keeping Fibs going for YEARS out of the goodness of her heart and her love of backgammon.
Doesn't matter what I personally think or what anyone thinks. We don't run Fibs. We don't own the site. We are only participants. It's too bad that a lot of good people must suffer for the mischevous antics of a few, but that's the way it is.
No, critics are not welcome. The site is not financed by us. We are just free riders. It is not our place to criticise. If you don't like the way Fibs is run, then start your own backgammon site and go in peace.
socksey
We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made. -M. Acklam
Quote from: socksey on March 19, 2007, 10:42:57 AM
Your questions (1), (2), (3), (4) were pretty well answered in the quote you gave from what I already said. You're a newbie so you haven't been around to hear all that has gone on before. When someone has been given an answer and yet continues to rag on the same thing, that amounts to harrassment. Patti has been keeping Fibs going for YEARS out of the goodness of her heart and her love of backgammon.
Doesn't matter what I personally think or what anyone thinks. We don't run Fibs. We don't own the site. We are only participants. It's too bad that a lot of good people must suffer for the mischevous antics of a few, but that's the way it is.
No, critics are not welcome. The site is not financed by us. We are just free riders. It is not our place to criticise. If you don't like the way Fibs is run, then start your own backgammon site and go in peace.
socksey
socksey.
In my country some rights are "natural", because embedded in the "human being" sphere, not in "paying-a-fee human being" sphere. So do some responsabilities. I am logical here. I am a logical man, whereas being passionate and rageous doesn't bring any improvement. Therefore in my 4 years, or more, don't even remember, of Fibs (newbie? :dry:), i waited and i informed myself on the topic. And i formed my opinion.
Moreover, instead of making it personal, as you are doing with me, would be nice to cohoperate in making Fibs a better place for everybody to be in. This means practically, to find other technical solutions (yes! there are practicable roads but, somehow, they are ignored).
I know that many people got acquainted to this status-quo, only because their rights-sphere wasn't limited. Well, i want those people to think about it.
You don't want to think about it, but, at least, be tolerant and remember Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Aren't you willing to agree with this quote?
Listen carefully, now: i perfectly know why you "ban-supporting" people are so aggressive with me and Italians. Because they are precisely pointing out who is the real abuser.
In the end Fibs isn't a cold server to switch on and off. Fibs is the community that brings life and make BG so colourful and amusing.
neurino
QuoteYou don't want to think about it, but, at least, be tolerant and remember Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Aren't you willing to agree with this quote?
Listen carefully, now: i perfectly know why you "ban-supporting" people are so aggressive with me and Italians. Because they are precisely pointing out who is the real abuser.
I very much agree with Voltaire's quote. ;) Otherwise, I would delete your message here. :wacko: You listen carefully. :dry: What I have said to you is as I know it. I do not disagree with you. I have never said that. What I am saying is that Patti is administrator of Fibs. She has threatened to close Fibs down more than once because of this kind of behavior and worse. :ohmy: Continue this and we may not have a Fibs for anyone. :cry: This is my concern. :unhappy: I love Fibs. :wub: It's my home away from home. I would be devistated if Fibs were gone for any reason. :'( If you have been a Fibs member for four years, you should know all this. :unsure: Maybe you missed some of the conversations that have gone on about this subject. :dontknow: At any rate, it's as I said before,
QuoteThis horse has been ridden to death
.
I am sympathetic to your cause, but your cause is a dead issue. :geige:
socksey
Quote from: socksey on March 20, 2007, 06:36:51 AM
I very much agree with Voltaire's quote. ;) Otherwise, I would delete your message here. :wacko: You listen carefully. :dry: What I have said to you is as I know it. I do not disagree with you. I have never said that. What I am saying is that Patti is administrator of Fibs. She has threatened to close Fibs down more than once because of this kind of behavior and worse. :ohmy: Continue this and we may not have a Fibs for anyone. :cry: This is my concern. :unhappy: I love Fibs. :wub: It's my home away from home. I would be devistated if Fibs were gone for any reason. :'( If you have been a Fibs member for four years, you should know all this. :unsure: Maybe you missed some of the conversations that have gone on about this subject. :dontknow: At any rate, it's as I said before, .
I am sympathetic to your cause, but your cause is a dead issue. :geige:
socksey
Good, socksey!
First of all, I do really appreciate your words. At least, you - as global moderator - disclose your mind about it. It's very important. You are sympthetic with the cause. Thanks.
Second. I won't feel neither responsible, nor guilty if in the future Fibs will close. This is not my (our) purpose. I repeat since the beginning: we want just some reasonable anwers, not silence or threats of being expelled from Fibs. And, sockey, sorry, but there are plenty of reasons against the ban. Fibs is for you home at abroad as well for us italians. The shutdown of Fibs cannot be offloaded onto ours queries. None of us is threatening the system. We, indeed, contribute to it, with money (Italians do donate as well) and with the presence. At the contrary, both the ban and the future shutdown, if it will happen, are a unilateral, one-sided decision.
Third: i raised reasonable points about the ban. Technically and about the essence of the abuse. No answers.
Look at Claudio_first's words: there are people nomading from one server to another, all but Fibs, just because they aren't welcome :unhappy:. It's really sad, and maybe is time to solve this "Italian Diaspora" :-) We, as simple participants, don't have so much power, but the step toward a reconciliation has to be done by the Fibs "gotha" as well.
Is it so terrible, so terrific, so scary, to ask the people: "What do you think about the ban?", "How can Fibs overall improve?", "Who wants to contribute in a open source Fibs code?" (a last second idea), "Let's open a second Fibs server, in order to lower the bitload of the original one" (a last last second idea). A saboteur would never speak like I do now. These are practical ideas of somebody that looks at the future in a constructive way.
My impression is that, now, the horse-ridden-to-death involves more pride and prejudice than other reasons. And the stubborn wall we face confirms it.
My text isn't a Petition in the proper sense, because i wanted to see first the lie of the land, to taste Fibs community's pulse. It's a kind of unofficial survey. The feedback that I and other italian users are getting is encouraging. The "silents" don't dare to come out into the open, because they fear to get banned. It's weird :blink: !!!
On the other hand, i guess a proper poll within Fibs context could reveal interesting opinions.
I'm looking forward to hear opinions from other moderators, contributors, from A. 'marvin' Schneider, from Fibsters whose words are reputable, compared with italian's ones.
Cheers. :)
neurino
Just from speaking to Patti and listening to what she has to say, here is my take on the issue:
Fact: Patti runs the FIBS server at her own expense for her own entertainment.
Fact: Fibs is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship, and Patti is the dictatress.
Fact: Patti makes, enforces, ignores, changes any rules that are in place at her discretion.
Fact: Patti reservers the right, as we all do, to squash anything that causes greif or displeasure in her life.
Fact: Patti gets to decide what those things are and how to effect changes to remedy them.
Fact: Patti does not owe any fibster anything, including the continuing operation of FIBS.
Fact: Fibsters, at the very least, owe Patti the consideration of not being a pain in her ass.
Fact: If Fibsters become a sufficient burdon, Patti would be justified in shutting the server down.
Now, with those facts in place, the situation at hand is simple. There have been a group of people who have conspired to cause Patti greif. It happens that the only common actionable factor amongst them is that they are Italian. So, Patti did what she had to do to restore the pleasureable aspect of the RUNNING of the FIBS server; ban inter-Italian play. She chose to do this even though just banning all Italians from the server would almost certainly have been MUCH easier. (a single firewall rule)
Patti has laid out the condition under which this ban will be removed; the cease of these few Italian's being a pain in her ass for the period of one year. I believe Patti when she says that she will lift the ban under those circumstances. Your blame for this issue should lie with your countrymen, not with Patti.
Being a further and continuing pain in her ass will not likely further your cause. In fact, the next logical step might be to ban Italians from the server all together, or worse shut the server down for everyone. I think we can all agree that either of those would be a real tragedy.
Another fibster suggested that you spend your time educating your fellow Italians to quit their subversive behaviour, whatever that is. I believe that would be the quickest route to a resolution you will be happy with.
gb
Thanks for your kind and polite reply.
May be you fotget a thing: many ''droppers'', and many are more than one.., have an USA IP (or from another country..). What Patti will do? Ban all the Americans?? Or all from another coutry??
Think about it.. if you are able to do it.
Best Regards
Claudio
GB is not saying that you are right or wrong in your conclusions, he is saying that it just doesn't really matter if you are right or wrong. Patti does whatever she sees fit and that is the end of it.
To be honest, if i where the admin of Fibs i would let people from Italy play eachother again, on probation so to speak.
Quote from: claudio_first on March 21, 2007, 06:45:51 PM
Thanks for your kind and polite reply.
May be you fotget a thing: many ''droppers'', and many are more than one.., have an USA IP (or from another country..). What Patti will do? Ban all the Americans?? Or all from another coutry??
Think about it.. if you are able to do it.
Best Regards
Claudio
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Italian situation is unjust and ridiculous. I personally think the ban should be lifted. (I base this opinion on the limited knowledge I have of Patti's reasons for imposing the ban.) BUT I realize and recognise that this is not MY choice to make. We are all guests in Patti's house. Patti gets to decide which behaviour is tolerable and which behaviour is not. Patti gets to decide who stays at her party and who gets bounced. Her decision does not have to be fair. It is her decision to make.
Patti has apparently decided that droppers are either OK with her, or impossible/impractical to defeat. She has further decided that whatever the few naughty Italians have done to bring this ban on their entire country is NOT OK with her. Administering FIBS is not Patti's full time job, and it is apparent that she does not want it to be. Banning droppers would be a full time job at Fibs.
When people visit MY house, I make the rules. When I am a visitor in someone elses house, I abide by their rules, regardless of whether I personally think they are fair or not. If I find the house rules unfair I have the freedom to leave. Do I think its fair that all Italians are suffering because of the actions of a few? No, of course not. But I respect Patti's decision and her authority to make it.
gb
Just use a foreign proxy server if you're from Italy and your problems should be solved.
That's the way some American rating cheaters operate on FIBS for years (hello Biggles_two and Honeygirl_ll) and it never seems to have bothered Patti!
Here's two links to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)
http://tor.eff.org/
--
:kaffeepc: luck is my main skill
omg get a life boys and gals
Hi Runner,
may be I missunderstood the first Gammboy's reply 'cause English is not my first language, I try to pay attention when I write and I read but perhaps sometime is not enough.
For my little own opinion is more important the "lost occasion".. you know which kind of tourneys, I was speaking about, we are accustomed to play.
Claudio
Quote from: gammboy on March 21, 2007, 07:12:33 PM
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Italian situation is unjust and ridiculous. I personally think the ban should be lifted. (I base this opinion on the limited knowledge I have of Patti's reasons for imposing the ban.) BUT I realize and recognise that this is not MY choice to make. We are all guests in Patti's house. Patti gets to decide which behaviour is tolerable and which behaviour is not. Patti gets to decide who stays at her party and who gets bounced. Her decision does not have to be fair. It is her decision to make.
Patti has apparently decided that droppers are either OK with her, or impossible/impractical to defeat. She has further decided that whatever the few naughty Italians have done to bring this ban on their entire country is NOT OK with her. Administering FIBS is not Patti's full time job, and it is apparent that she does not want it to be. Banning droppers would be a full time job at Fibs.
We are not talking about droppers. For them the Reputiation-bot works quite well, imho. We are speaking about abusers, who fake nicknames and try to connect anyway to Fibs for intra-Italy play. If Italians need a different treatment, i'd like to know on which basis this treatment is based. It's not enough to say "they are all cheaters". It cannot be true. There are other cheaters around the world. It's not enough to say "i decide on my own". On which basis this decision is taken?
Everybody is responsible for his own actions. If it wasn't like that, then we wouldn't need to interact with others. Patti can isolate her, without answering, or saying that "it's her house", but she doesn't get charisma at all.
Zorba pointed out a way of avoiding the ban. If you were a player in Italy, would you try to play through a chain of proxies?
And if you were the Fibs administrator, would you ban some other players?
neurino
Quote from: Zorba on March 21, 2007, 10:22:32 PM
Just use a foreign proxy server if you're from Italy and your problems should be solved.
That's the way some American rating cheaters operate on FIBS for years (hello Biggles_two and Honeygirl_ll) and it never seems to have bothered Patti!
Here's two links to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)
http://tor.eff.org/
Thanks Zorba for your advises...but, let me ask you a couple of things:
(1) if this isn't the kind of abuse the italians are committing, what could it be?
(2) if this is the abuse the Italians are charged of, don't you think they shouldn't avoid the Tor network?
neurino
As someone else has stated, my single criterion for removing the inter-Italian play ban is one year of my not having to clean up accounts from Italian players abusing the site.
The clock is currently at one hour. I just deleted a bunch of accounts AGAIN.
As of yesterday, TOR users are no longer welcome on FIBS.
Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 05:56:27 PM
As someone else has stated, my single criterion for removing the inter-Italian play ban is one year of my not having to clean up accounts from Italian players abusing the site.
The clock is currently at one hour.
Good! This means we have still 8759 hours to go. If there'll be no abuse in this time window i propose the Italian country for the Peace Nobel Prize next year.
Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 05:56:27 PM
I just deleted a bunch of accounts AGAIN.
As of yesterday, TOR users are no longer welcome on FIBS.
This means the abusers weren't using TOR network. So, may i ask which kind of abuse was?
neurino
It doesn't mean abusers weren't using the TOR network. It means that I shut TOR access down yesterday and cleaned up a lot of partially-TOR-based mess today.
From fibs shout (edited for brevity and clarity), about 1h ago:
- You shout: Can you comment on these points? (a) IP banning is technologically pointless, (b) the message is out and perpetuating won't make it a lot different now, and (c) clan liability is so middle ages
- Patti shouts: My criterian for dropping the ban is simple: one year of my not finding this sort of abuse from Italians.
- Patti shouts: (a) The problem has been reduced but not eliminated. (b) The abuse rate has gone way down since I've made it more technically difficult. (c) Whatever.
- You shout: i'll send a cut/paste of this to the page maintainer
- Patti shouts: No need, inim. I've already explained it all to him. He doesn't want to hear truth... he just wants to b17ch.
Patti may be acting draconian here, but at least she made a her position abundantly clear. She expects "the italians" to abstain from manipulations for a year.
The campain ignores this, and by this selectively supresses truth. As a result Patti keeps being bombarded by messages and mail, surely not contributing to her willingness to lift the ban.
My position is that the campain in it's current form hurts the very cause it tries to achive: lifting the ban. I liked to see the same energy invested in helping Patti to fight the cheaters. More concrete: modify the web page to spread Patti's word, talk to fellow italians to spread the word. This involves some pride swallowing, but in the end helps the (just) cause a lot more than keeping on being a nuisance to Patti.
Abuse. I still haven't understood what kind of abuse are we talking about. Multiple nicks, maybe?
So why did i get complaints from the same ip? A whole family, dog included, complaints against me or simply the same person :yes:, who decides to complain without any reason, as I didn't ever play with none of those nicks.
And the ip was both a tor network nor an italian one.
English is not my mother language, so surely i've lost something, but still i don't know the reason of the so-called ban.
Cheaters only from Italy? Oh! I shame on me! I'm an Italian woman, so the equation that has been made is Italian = cheater :dry:.
Math is not my preferred subject, but I see that it's a wrong equation. Cheaters have no nation, if I see a cheater, may I send an email
to you Patty, with the abuser's ip and then? Another banned nation or only Italy?
I told in another post, if you need, I can give the logs to the Italian Postal Police, in order to
procede accordingly to the law. Feel free to contact me whenever you wish, sending the a.b. logs, my email is known by you:as soon as I get it, I'll pass it to the PolPost :).
Namaste,
hexagon_sun
just use parlorplay
Hex, the abuse I'm talking about is all over the map. I don't really feel a need to detail it and provide people with new ideas for making trouble. Suffice it to say that I've deleted hundreds if not thousands of abuse accounts that originated from Italy.
I've considered moving ParlorPlay to virtual Italy, but haven't yet done so.
Exagon, e' sciocco continuare, la storia e' vecchia (leggi un mio vecchio thread).. forse una persona forse 2/3, uno stupidino.. un hacker.. Ci fu una discussione.. a torto o a ragione?? Non lo so. Ora non e' importante chi avesse ragione, e' il risultato.. in evidenza!
Ogni volta che lancio il programma, leggo: Questo server.. e' un insulto alla mia intelligenza e mi passa la voglia di giocare.
Mi dispiace immensamente per l'occasione perduta, potevamo venire qui.. no grazie.
Immagina quanto poteva crescere Fibs..
Siamo un Team europeo, tutte le nazioni sono rappresentate, tutti sono benvenuti, sufficiente essere europei non importa dove si vive. Le regole ci sono. Chi si comporta male viene bannato, rientra con un nick diverso.. bannato ancora.. non la sua nazione!
Facciamo i tornei piu' importanti in tutto il web con squadre come gli Zilla, Pal, Lat, Brs..etc. oppure come singoli giocatori.
Se vuoi farne parte.. chiedimi pure, qualsiasi europeo voglia farne parte.. puo' chiedermi informazioni.
Tutto gratis naturalmente.
Exagon, e' sciocco continuare.. anche se ''Gutta cavat lapidem"
Claudio
Exagon, is a nonsense to continue, is an old story (read my old thread).. may be was a person.. may be 2/3 persons.. a stupid.. an hacker.. It was a discussion.. wrigth or wrong?? I don't know. Is no more important now who was in wrigth, is the result.. in evidence!
Every time I launch the program I read: This server... that is an injury to my intelligence and the pleasure of playing here is gone.
I'm very very sorry for the lost occasion, we all could be here.. no thanks! No more!
Think about how much Fibs would be increased...
We are an European Team, all the nations are in, all are welcome! is enough be european is not important where you live. We have the rules. The abuser is banned, reenter with a different nick.. banned again.. not his/her Nation!
We make the most important tourneys in alla the web v/s. Teams like Zilla, Pal, Brs, Lat.. etc. or for single player.
Feel free to enter the Team.. ask me only if you want. Every European feel free to enter.. they can ask to me some informations.. if they want.
All free.. naturally ;)
Exagon, is a nonsense to continue.. even if ''Gutta cavat lapidem'' (is Latin)
Claudio
P.S. Somewhere I wrote ''droppers'' sorry.. for me droppers=cheaters=abusers, are just the same. I used just only 1 word instead 3.
Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 10:36:01 PM
It doesn't mean abusers weren't using the TOR network. It means that I shut TOR access down yesterday and cleaned up a lot of partially-TOR-based mess today.
Sorry Patti, just to be precise (aka "bitching"(cit.) a little bit more) :mellow: : if up to few days ago you hadn't close TOR accesses yet, this means that TOR users weren't considered abusers.
inim points out something right: italians abusers (beside TOR users, we found out at least that) have to stop. how many are they? hundreds? thousands? You say they are so many, that each weekend hundreds accounts have to be deleted. But how many were responsible for the ban? It isn't surprising that they increased.
I will modify the webpage.
Will the ban have a shorter specious condition to be lifted? Waiting 1 year is like to say: "i'll become a tibetan monk if it won't rain for 1 year".
neurino
Quote from: neurino on March 30, 2007, 01:04:13 AM
Sorry Patti, just to be precise: if up to few days ago you hadn't close TOR accesses yet, this means that TOR users weren't considered abusers...
I hadn't yet discovered the extent of the TOR-based abuse, nor gone through the non-trivial effort of shutting it down.
By the way, Italians shouldn't take this personally. Some years ago I cut off access to all of AOL for a while, thanks to TomServo. Anyone remember him?
Quote from: Patti on March 30, 2007, 01:10:49 AM
I hadn't yet discovered the extent of the TOR-based abuse, nor gone through the non-trivial effort of shutting it down.
By the way, Italians shouldn't take this personally. Some years ago I cut off access to all of AOL for a while, thanks to TomServo. Anyone remember him?
Uh, i modified right now my too essential quote. :blink: Thanks for the fast answer, btw. I guess the AOL users could have beaten this TomServo. I can understand mantaining FIbs can deserve stiffness. But nothing is eternal.
We'll see.
Bye
neurino
No, one year is it. Since I've been dealing with this problem for a couple of years already, I have no particular inclination to shorten that. I also don't have much reason to believe that it will ever get lifted, given that it's been going on for so long.
Hi Patti, hi all,
As Patti thinks that she will never lift the ban, I want to give a suggestion. I believe that all people deserve a second chance... I know that 1) patti has to do a lot of free work with the useless entries, accounts etc. Italians pay for the mistake of a guy. May be that person regret for his actions as he was the reason for a whole nation to be banned....
I will get to the point... I suggest Patti to lift the ban for a week ... if nothing happens to continue this for another week... so in case that the italian trully regrets then italians could continue enjoy FIBS. If not, at least Patti would give them a last chance...
adamosad, did you miss the part where I said I was cleaning up this stuff just last week? Since he's been doing it for a very long time, I have no reason to believe that he suddenly regrets his actions.
Edit: Five minutes ago.
And the clock is back at zero. I just cleaned up a bunch of mess from abusive Italian players.
What kind of mess Patti? :huh:
My earlier answer to "What kind of mess?" is earlier in this thread: http://www.fibsboard.com/general-chit-chat/fibs-free-italian-players-campaign-t1565.0.html;msg12313#msg12313 (http://www.fibsboard.com/general-chit-chat/fibs-free-italian-players-campaign-t1565.0.html;msg12313#msg12313)
I know, but i was curious if you had the same kind of mess this time.