Hi, I am someone who normally just likes to play the game. Over the past couple of months the "Shouts" seem to have been getting more and more inflammatory. And I have just completed a game, wherein there was nothing but verbal abuse from beginning to end. It was fortunately just a 1 pointer, and I managed to remain silent for the majority of it. I won the game, which helped my ego slightly ;-) but nevertheless feel very disappointed by the harassment. Sorry if this is voicing my opinion on friendly people who would rather not hear it - but I also feel that it is out of order.
B
happens lots here BearB... almost always the same people are abusing others... big bullies taking advantage of the fact that their missus is going shopping and trying to regain some of their masculinity that way... ( follow my regard...hahaha..) Once you know who is acting like a baboon just put them on your ignore list... in the end they will only play each other and become a disapearing entity... :rolleyes:
Here something that can help you out....
Another thing I do sometimes when it really gets to me is to toggle shouts off. It does become unBEARable at times, so use your gag/ignore for the jerks who love to put people down or continually shout unpleasant things. Some of the clients don't support gag in shouts. 3dFibs and JavaFibs do.
Funny how those who do the abusing, while thinking they are elevating themselves are really only showing themselves inadequate and small.
Keep the faith! Enjoy those other people and have fun playing! And DEATH to droppers! :)
socksey
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting" - General Norman Schwartzkof
Thanks for the support people - the abuse actually took place in Kibitz though - Yes I invited the person to play - and as I mentioned it was only a 1 pointer, but I did not expect stuff like that from a total stranger, one whom I had never played before.
PS Shadey - keep those pics coming they are hysterical
This has been going as long as i remember:
http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?showtop...&st=0&#entry762 (http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?showtopic=209&st=0&#entry762)
Thx for the reminder, webbie! I just went back and read that thread. My attitudes seem to have changed slightly! I hope that doesn't mean I am becoming jaded. :wacko:
As I said before, JavaFibs and 3DFibs supports gag in shout, kibitz, and tell, and all clients support gag in kibitz and tells. No longer need to get upset, just use gag, and calm down. :D Note, BearB, expect ANYTHING on Fibs! That is the beauty of it as well as the agony.
I still feel for the kiddies on Fibs tho. Too bad they are still exposed to all the garbage. :tears:
socksey
"Experience: A comb life gives you after you lose your hair." - Judith Stern
I have to say my opinion has changed since that thread was started. I have played a lot more live backgammon - and met and talked to players who have played a lot more than I have. At first, you are told backgammon is a game of luck and skill. This is - to some extent true - but it is by no means the whole story. Another major factor is emotion. If you are emotionally off balance when playing a match - your ability to use your skill will be diminished - often dramatically.
When I first saw the attacks on fibs - I assumed it was from people who did this on the internet from the safety of anonymity. I have since come to realise it is from the people who have played the most live backgammon - and for money. In that game you have to learn to master one of two skills. Either to be able to use words to emotionally destabilise your opponent - or to be prepared for it occasionally happen to you - and to be able to NOT react. I will always play in the second bracket ââ,¬â€œ so learning to take whatever happens across the board in my stride, laughing and not allowing myself to be wound up is vitally important to me.
This weekend I played in a fairly serious tournament here ââ,¬â€œ my first of its kind. My first opponent made a huge amount of ââ,¬Ëœmistakesââ,¬â,,¢ all in his favour! I came to realise this was a tactic as much as any other ââ,¬â€œ and I had to closely watch everything he did. My favourite of them all remains when he knocked off one of my checkers which was BEHIND him. If I wasnââ,¬â,,¢t so ready for that ââ,¬â€œ I could have let him make me doubt myself ââ,¬â€œ and he would have another advantage, as well as being a better player than me. ;)
There are some lesser known tournament rules ââ,¬â€œ which never come into play on an online bg server ââ,¬â€œ and it is well worth knowing them if you intend to do more than simply potter along in fibs. One such rule ââ,¬â€œ which I was able to use in that match, is that if your opponent rolls before you finish your move (an attempt to either pressure you into playing faster or, in his case, to steal my move) ââ,¬â€œ you can make them take that roll ââ,¬â€œ and then finish your move ââ,¬â€œ so you can play to what they rolled ââ,¬â€œ or, if their roll is very good ââ,¬â€œ you can make them roll again ââ,¬â€œ and hope for a roll more in your favour.
So, going back to the abuse ââ,¬â€œ if you are using fibs to learn to play backgammon ââ,¬â€œ and intend to go on to live play ââ,¬â€œ it is almost as vital a part of the learning process as learning to move the checkers and the art of the cube.
If you do not want to carry on ââ,¬â€œ and donââ,¬â,,¢t like it ââ,¬â€œ gag them and donââ,¬â,,¢t play them again, otherwise learn to take comments about your sexuality, your playing ability, your partners sexual habits etc in your stride and do not let them affect how you play.
This thread, as I am sure you will by now have realised, is based upon the actions of a bot ââ,¬â€œ and the mentality behind that bot was to get people thinking about this subject without personality issues. A lot of people stopped being angry and laughed when they realised it was simply a program insulting them ââ,¬â€œ and many even ventured new offensive lines to be added (maybe the bot needs an x rating for the kiddies). This was the point ââ,¬â€œ if you cannot be offended when you take away the person ââ,¬â€œ you can use that as a technique to get around any real situations you may find yourself in.
The aim ââ,¬â€œ donââ,¬â,,¢t take it personally and find a way to deal with it ââ,¬â€œ whether you gag or laugh.
In other words, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
That is what you are saying right?
I agree for most part Diane. The problem is, newbies should be warned about stuff like this shouldn't they?
I am not quite sure I said stay out of the kitchen - but maybe wear oven gloves ;)
Yes - I do think a warning would be appropriate - as I stated on the other thread. It does seem a bit of a shock to those joining with no prior knowledge of the game and its culture, even if that culture is something I would like to see changing - to bring more people, particularly women, into tournaments - even if they wish to stay away from money games.
Oops - almost forgot - whilst we are delving around in this murky area of backgammon - can I recommend that those of you who can, look out for a documentary soon to be shown on sky. I dont have it - so I cant tell you the channel number - but it is the gambling channel. The doumentary is entitled 'Ernies Game' and is a good insight into the world of playing backgammon for money. It was previewed at the tournament I attended last weekend - and most found it very entertaining.
The story of Ernie - a long time and skilled gambler from Yorkshire who started playing backgammon a few years ago - he is a very forthright gentleman - who calls a spade a spade as the local saying goes, (and where dice are concerned - he has much to say) :D
I am told by those who play him, that he has improved somewhat since the documentary was made - but nevertheless - it still stands as an idea of what goes on.
The film is worth watching, if nothing else, for the brief appearances of John Slattery - one of our more flamboyant players - whom I am looking forward to meeting! Check out those suits :D
BUT since we are doing this - do NOT watch it if you are easily offended - and it is not one for the kiddies ;)
I have to totally disagree with diane's major premise, that abuse is somehow part of the game. Online or in IRL, it is not part of the game and should never be tolerated. The overwhelming number of my opponents over the years, in many tournaments and in money games, have conducted themselves in a pleasant and courteous manner. Those that choose not to do so, get considerable opposition from me. Online, just leave the match, winning or losing, the second or third time they come out with some offensive remark and the same applies IRL. If you meet someone unpleasant in a tournament, ask the director for an observer, it is your right and insist that the strict rules of backgammon are played. Why stand for less?
Somehow I think this text from Phil Simborg suits well in this thread :D
Copied from GammonVillage
--------------------------------
Fifteen Ways To Irritate Your Opponent
9 December 1999
by Phil Simborg
We all know that an irritated, distracted opponent will play worse. Here are some "advanced" tips for you:
1. Call his worst rolls for him.
2. Call your second best roll, and if you roll your best roll, complain.
3. If he wins a game or match, tell him how lucky he was.
4. If you win a game or match, tell him how amazing it was you won with all those bad rolls.
5. Whenever he's thinking about a tough play, or counting pips, tap the table impatiently, sigh heavily, and keep shaking your dice to distract him.
6. Whenever you get a perfect roll that closes him out or ends the game, pretend you don't see it right away and make the play very slowly, acting like you're thinking about doing something else.
7. Whenever he makes a daring play, like leaving a voluntary shot, or gambling for a G instead of doubling, and it doesn't work--be sure to tell him you wouldn't have done that.
8. If you gammon him, tell him he was very lucky not to get backgammoned.
9. Whenever he rolls a repeater, even if it's a terrible roll, remind him that he really should shake his dice.
10. Practice your rolling technique so that whenever you have an important roll the dice will be off the table and you'll have to roll over several times.
11. If you are sure you are not going to double, finger the doubling cube for a while and then change your mind.
12. Yell "YES!" whenever he rolls a really bad roll.
13. Especially if you are playing with his board, eat something really messy while you play and drip food all over the checkers and the board. (If you smoke, ashes look lovely on an opponent's board.)
14. Whenever he has a forced play, tell him it's forced and move his checkers for him.
15. And lastly, if you win, be sure to report it to the tournament director in the loudest possible voice.
Hmmm let me try again - as you told me once in an email ..
Rule 1. Never play at all when you are tired, depressed or inebriated. Never play 'for fun' or 'to relax'. Only play when you are fresh, ready to play and in the right state of mind to play a match with maximum effort.
Now - if you have two 2 world class players playing - and both are equally lucky - it stands to reason they would try to use something to try to get an edge. We saw it in the austin/biggles match - austin does the chat - to try to distract his opponent - he learned that as much as he learned to play - I can assure ya.
Now - I didnt say by any means that it happens all the time - the word I used was 'occaisonally', and it very much depends where you are, who you are playing and what is at stake. The thing is to be ready for the odd chance it does - and as you said to me - to know what you can do about it - call in the TD, demand they play to the exact rules and have them watched like a hawk (assuming it is a tournament and not a live money game) - But you need to do all that without letting it ruffle you in any way. Confrontation can cause some people to be off balance - so once the trick is played - whatever you do in response has already accomplished its goal if you let it. The point about the verbal abuse is that whilst it is the rarest form of distraction - it is the most effective, and the hardest to learn to deal with.
Quote
Fifteen Ways To Irritate Your Opponent
9 December 1999
by Phil Simborg
We all know that an irritated, distracted opponent will play worse. Here are some "advanced" tips for you:
LOL - yup I already seen them all - you were posting that while I was replying - again they are tactics that really happen and can throw ya - if you let it! To try to sum up my point - I am NOT saying accept it - I AM saying be prepared for it - and dont let it spoil your play!
Quote10. Practice your rolling technique so that whenever you have an important roll the dice will be off the table and you'll have to roll over several times.
I find that by putting my dice up my nose before important rolls, I can get them to 'hug' the board a bit better, and not go flying all over the place.
Go and read a book called "Alpha Backgammon" for any kind of tips. :wacko:
The behavior that BearB is talking about is not common or accepted in any world class backgammon tournament I've ever attended or heard of. Dorbel pretty much has the right approach (I never drop matches but I can sympathize with him there..). As has already been pointed out, many find this kind of kindergarten play offensive and inappropriate.
That said, I must point out that there is no solution on FIBS. Patti won't solve it and probably shouldn't. As long as these players are tolerated by a few of us, they will continue to infest the server. In fact, many of the posts in this thread and the cesspool thread were written by users about specific FIBS-vermin, but those same complaining-users tolerate other vermin with identical behavior. They only complain when the filth is directed in their direction. They tolerate and even applaud this behavior when it is directed elsewhere.
So I repeat: As long as these players are tolerated by a few of us, they will continue to infest the server.
If you find an opponent so unpleasant that you don't ever want to play this person again, simply so to "Inspector" & highlight the opponent with red or some other color. This will make you take notice & you'll permanantly have a warning to keep you from accepting invitations or issuing them to creeps and droppers.
But isn't it fun sometimes to whup someone you don't particularly take a shine to?
I think it is only fair that I mention that it was indeed a "Bot" who infuriated me - had I known this I probably would not have started this thread. When I had completed the game I brought the subject up in "shouts." It would have been nice to think that one of our more experienced players might have mentioned that the player was a "Bot," and potentially stopped my aggrevation.
QuotePlay to Enjoy. Play to Win. Just Play, Enjoy and Win.
I love it......
The whole thread is filled with whiners and complainers about behavior, when the original behavior was a newbie getting kibitz 'insulted' by a BOT!
BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
typical FIBS BS
:lol:
Biggles
(The most popular Fibster)
That bot is a parody of some of our resident FIBS-vermin. There is a problem predating it, as revealed by the response in this thread and many others.
QuoteBiggles (the most popular fibster)
Wrong:
RepBot: tissot's reputation is 2007118(GOOD)
QuoteQuoteBiggles (the most popular fibster)
Wrong:
RepBot: tissot's reputation is 2007118(GOOD)
even more : Tissot runs as a swiss clock...!! :rolleyes:
I'm always amused by Don's "contributions" to this forum. In the first place, Don has never particiated in any live tournament, major or minor. He has said repeatedly that his only tourney experience has been on FIBS. So he has no clue what occurs at real tourneys in the way of bad behavior.
Secondly, I take issue with his statement to the effect that there is no solution for bad behavior on FIBS, that Patti will do nothing.
May I remind Don that Patti does in fact take action if the behavior is outrageous enough as was the case when she banned Don for 6 months for harassing female FIBSroids. Before he calls anyone VERMIN, he needs to look in the mirror.
I have observed heated verbal disputes, near fistfights, chairs thrown and losers spitting at winners at major tourneys I've participated in. What you must keep in mind is that there is a lot of money invilved and emotions can run pretty high in big money tourneys, especially as players approach the money rounds.
NIHI
And may i ask in which part of the world this kind of behaviour, what nihi describes, happens?
I have played only in european tournaments and i have never seen or heard that this kind of behaviour happens. My tournament experience is only major tournaments in Europe and also minor tournaments in Scandinavia.
Loud verbal dispute and near fistfight at the 2003 Nordic Open, chair thrown by Jim Pasko at a major tourney in Vegas several years ago, my opponent spitting at me after I won our match at the Istanbul tourney in, I think, 1996.
NIHI
OH dear - puts what I have so far seen in the shade - guess I got all this to look forward to. Having seen the minor disputes I have so far at smaller events - somehow this does not surprise me - those bad dice sure get people wound up, even when they should know better! ;)
Though the spitting I might have some sympathy with :P
Yeah, and that happens all the time B)
I thought that nihi meant in previous post that it do happens all the time in major tournaments but these have happened during a period of ,,,hmm,,,, over twenty years.
OMG, i am now so scared to attend those tournaments as now i know what really happens there. :rolleyes:
Really, that kind of behaviour is not tolerated in any major tournament, directors nor players will not accept it and players who do act badly are not wellcome anymore.
... my guess is that NIHi only plays in suspect neighborhoods... thats his choice and we have to respect that... what keeps amazing coming from him is the constant hate he shows everytime on behalf of don.... Should I dare to remind him on all the filth and intimidation he shows to everyone OUT of tourneys or games???.. and as far as I know he has never been banned... which is the real shame!! :no:
Once again Tapio demonstrates that his IQ is about the equivalent of his shoe size. Nowhere did I write that bad behavior occurs at every tourney, only some of the more extreme examples I've observed. I never even touched on some of the cheap, sleazy gamesmanship that occasionally occurs.
Bad behavior is the exception and not the rule.
Obviously math is something not taught in Finnish schools either. The incident at the Nordic Open occurred 2 years ago, the spitting incident 7 or 8.
I'm glad for Tapio that his tourney experiences more closely approximate high tea at the Savoy Hotel.
NIHI
Ahhhhh, tea at Savoy, may i have honey too ? :jump:
You are fun, nihi :D
Always glad to entertain.
NIHI
I have been to two tournaments so far in which a fair amount of money was at stake - in both of those there were 'incidents' (none including me you may be surprised to hear :P ) - not of a very extreme nature - but the kind of thing that can upset and off balance a player - if they are not prepared for the possibility. One was as simple as one player making a comment about his opponents move - which degenerated to the point the TD had to be called to watch over the remainder of the match. (as pointed out in the earlier post - really that kind of comment is not necessary, and is perhaps a deliberate act to annoy - who can tell?)
The point of the discussion in this thread is not to be personal and suggest some tournaments are better than others - but to simply draw players attention to the possibility that things arent always smooth - and that you need to be prepared for that - and to be able to retain your composure under some circumstances which maybe dont naturally lead you in that direction. ;)
Dorbel makes the point that abuse is rare - yet I have heard him utter what could be considered quite an inflammatory remark at a live event - however innocently it may have been intended. (If you had just lost a match you expected to win - would "if you dont know why you lost, you will never improve" be in the top ten list of things you wanted to hear?) That is the thing with words - there is almost always something offensive to be found - if you are looking hard enough!
It is the aspiration of most who posted - and I imagine, the majority of those who didnt, that tournaments be friendly, respectful, and fun where possible (even when you get 'go to bed' dice and some half wit knocks you out in the first round ;) ), but these events are attended by human beings :D
This is a variation of the cheap, sleazy gamesmanship I referred to. Dorbel is a well-known practitioner of DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO. Several weeks ago he was playing his match in the England/Finland tourney. He led Reima almost the entire match. At regular intervals, Dorbel would shout the score; Dorbel 6-Reima 1, etc. He continued to do this til the score reached 10-1 to 11. Suddeny, Reima began to win........Dorbel 10-Reima 2 and on until it got to 10-6. Dorbel fell silent at that point and never shouted another score as Reima won 11-10.
Gotta be careful of that early gloating.
I was at a Vegas tourney years ago, watching one of the past masters, Arthur Dickman, play his match.
As his opponent slowly got the better of things, Art began to seethe. From then on, after almost every opposing roll/move, Art would offer his sneering comments, like " Your play was my third choice."
I don't even want to get started on Gaby Horowitz and his antics.
Shalom.
NIHI
Heh, nihi wants to keep horo himself as horo is nihi's mentor. :jump2:
The only dissent in this thread is from NIHI and Biggles, both of whom are the subject of this thread more or less. Neither has much respect for the truth.
As long as they (and other kiddies like them) are tolerated, as long as they get the attention they crave, that's how long we'll be having this discussion. Many camplain about this behavior when they are the target, yet encourage it when someone else is. This discussion is over a decade old and counting....
QuoteThis discussion is over a decade old and counting....
Maybe, don, but I hadn't heard it all before and I'm sure many others haven't either.
BTW, did everyone hear how Biggles and/or NIHILIST decided I must have used a bot while beating Biggles in a match way back when? :lol: I'll still be telling that story in another decade! Thx for the memories, guys! :)
socksey
"Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it." - Russell Baker
Quote
BTW, did everyone hear how Biggles and/or NIHILIST decided I must have used a bot while beating Biggles in a match way back when? :lol: I'll still be telling that story in another decade! Thx for the memories, guys! :)
socksey
:huh: ... are that the same guys who think that cheating is a art .... as long as they create it??.. :no:
No, Socksey. I didn't hear that story....
Can u say more?
I've got to say that I strongly disagree with those who think anything but polite behavior during match play is OK. I think the following is a good example of boorish behavior in the FIBS league. In deference to this site's policies, I have ***ed the pejoratives.
Quote[One of my attempts to communicate with zyxtcba during the current league session, anything in square brackets is added after the fact. -- don]
Sunday, February 13 05:26:01 MET ( Sun Feb 13 04:26:01 2005 UTC )
** FINALLY!!! zyxtcba logs in. You're no longer lonesome.
> ** You tell zyxtcba: would you like to play our match now?
zyxtcba says: don: apparently you have ability to play 24/7b due to your lack of a social life. I do not lack a social life. It would be more efficient if you allowed me to invite you when I am available. Do you understand? This has nothing to do with diane. And you are still an outstanding scumf***ingbag for accusing me of being a liar without any proof whatsof***ingever. Certainly your behavior is in violation of Tomawaky rules. Maybe I should complain like a f***ing pussy too.
> ** You tell zyxtcba: Do I interpret from that rant that you don't want to play our match now? A simple polite yes or no will suffice.
zyxtcba shouts: don - unlike others, I am not willing to simply dismiss you as a f***ing idiot, ok?
zyxtcba says: don - unlike others, I am not willing to simply dismiss you as a f***ing idiot, ok?
zyxtcba says: so please don't treat me like one either - it is infuriating
zyxtcba says: if that is your purpose then I congrwatulate me
zyxtcba says: sorry - congratulate you
zyxtcba says: but this is not sesame street, ok a**hole?
> ** You tell zyxtcba: a simple polite "yes" or "no" will suffice, I don't know or care about your other concerns. Would you like to play our match now?
zyxtcba says: f*** you don
zyxtcba says: no respect intended
zyxtcba says: f*** you
zyxtcba says: I care about your accusations that I am a liarzyxtcba says: so f*** you don
zyxtcba says: so f*** you don
zyxtcba says: you created me - don't you get it, dumb f***ing s***?
zyxtcba says: now go complain to Tomawa\ky, ok?
zyxtcba says: I'm sure he misses your pap
zyxtcba says: f*** you runny don
zyxtcba says: you might think it is the height of f***ing amusement to attach your f***ing false accusations of diane's behavior to me - however, you cannot control my reaction don - f*** you don - f*** you, f*** your mom in the mouth with my dick, f*** your dad in the a** with my dick, f*** the rest of your relations in every available orifice with my c##k - do you comprehend my complete and utter disdain for you from this or are you just a goddamend dumb motherf***ing c***sucker after all?
zyxtcba shouts: and I am happy to keep a log of everthing I've said to you
zyxtcba shouts: you created me
zyxtcba shouts: I dunno - I went out with my wife and friends for the last few hours, had drinks, dinner and saw a movie - but don is still an a**hole.
zyxtcba shouts: I log on and his spew is waiting for me in message form
zyxtcba shouts: Message from don: look - I am a dumb motherf***ing a**hole - but I will never admit that in the public window, ok?
[I should point out that I never left any such message for zyxtcba. He appears to object to my use of the FIBS wait command which I use to identify league players when they log in so I can politely ask them if they want to play. -- don]
zyxtcba shouts: that was what was waiting for me when I log back in
zyxtcba shouts: so excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me
zyxtcba shouts: don's silence = agreement
> Message saved: Hi zyx. I'd like to offer you some advice on FIBS league. I think you should separate your normal filth and hatred from the league. I'm suggesting you behave politely when discussing and scheduling matches, and save your invective for other times. When I ask you if you want to play, a simple "yes" or "no" will do, and if you are polite, perhaps we can discuss when you might like to play. Thanks for listening.
I concede that behavior like this and worse happens in live tournaments. It is the exception, not the rule, and should not be tolerated. Any tournament I've attended has guidelines which should be enforced when regrettably necessary. (Sorry NIHI, but I've never said I'd played in no live tournaments. But go ahead and make things up, I'm used to it.) In the case of FIBS league, if a player cannot be civil while scheduling and playing a match, the player should not be allowed to play in the league.
Those who find this behavior normal and acceptable are simply wrong.
QuoteIn the case of FIBS league, if a player cannot be civil while scheduling and playing a match, the player should not be allowed to play in the league.
Those who find this behavior normal and acceptable are simply wrong.
not only in league games, don, but in every game... this place is in a suicidal phase by accepting that kind of behaviour, its as simple as that. People who look to have a nice game of gammon never stay long and search another place to play... who can blame them??.... Wonder what Patti will (finally!!) do when she will be left with only all that bad mouthed people??... I guess closing the place is better than preventing..?? :no:
QuoteIn the case of FIBS league, if a player cannot be civil while scheduling and playing a match, the player should not be allowed to play in the league.
You're right except if it's a conflict against 2 people that make this scheduling hard to plan. In this case it would be necessarry to plan your match by mail with copy to the TD. Even if it's the badest thing I want to see in my league.
Well as Tomawaky said this is the only way you can have your league match!!!After you send him an email, inform td about it!!!
Quotenot only in league games, don, but in every game... this place is in a suicidal phase by accepting that kind of behaviour, its as simple as that. People who look to have a nice game of gammon never stay long and search another place to play
I agree completely with u Shades!!!!
QuoteWell as Tomawaky said this is the only way you can have your league match!!!After you send him an email, inform td about it!!!
Actually, not 'after'. The TD must be in 'cc:'. :)
Don't forget to prefix the subject with the right string, otherwise the mail server will bounce it for anti-spam reasons.
Cheers
-AK
PS: was the string [FLG] ?
You are right i made a small mistake!! I apologize about that :D
QuoteActually, not 'after'. The TD must be in 'cc:'. :)
Don't forget to prefix the subject with the right string, otherwise the mail server will bounce it for anti-spam reasons.
Right !
put
"[FLG]" in the subject