Future Of Quotebot And Jokebot

tryout · September 25, 2005, 07:41:34 PM

Hi Fibsters,

you'll probably know QuoteBot and JokeBot by now. Some detest one or both of them, but as much as these may not want to believe it, there are also quite some who like them. At least it looks like it. And a majority seems to be rather indifferent about the topic. To me it was certainly fun to provoke some reactions, either way.

I had heard a few people mentioning the idea of a jokebot in shouts over the last months. Some weeks ago I thought, why not?, let's go for the fun. It only took a couple of minutes to write QuoteBot. That it became a quotebot was rather coincidental. Quotes were just the first thing I stumbled across. After some weeks I extended the code slightly for multiple lines, which you know as JokeBot. The bots log in each every hour, one at the full hour the other at half past.

Now I'd like to ask around whether these bots are too much a pain, and what should happen with them.

Here are some pros and cons:

Both bots are apparently not BG related. On the other hand hardly anything in FIBS shouts is BG related. One can equally well go to lengthy discussions about what has a higher/worse quality - the quotes or jokes or the filth spewed by some shouters.
Some regard it as spamming. I do understand this argument. However, it's very easy to gag anyone on FIBS (with JavaFIBS it's even easier: see the help for perma-gag/villains list). You won't see anything of the bots at least as long as you're logged in; with the perma-gag forever.
Some actually like to read now and then a quote or joke. Not too few have said so in shouts. The quality of the quotes and jokes may be criticised, though. But the content has been compiled by humans, due to the English language presumably mostly by people with English as their native tongue. Note that the jokes got actually rated (by humans) and the bot selects only the top 30%. (Imagine

)

Also, having seen some reactions by now, I think it's a good cause to contemplate whether or how much you value FIBS shouts. Some people persist on the free nature of shouts. Does this apply to bots, too? Why? Why not?

So what future shall the bots have?

I'd be prepared to dump them.

They could serve other content, too. Think of a "TourneyAnnounceBot", which would even be BG and FIBS related. Or a "NewsBot", or whatever.

Since at least some people like them, the bots could be kept running. Perhaps at longer intervals. I reckon that, if you like them and don't want them to be shut off, you'll need to voice your preference. The contra-fraction will likely be loud.

I'm curious for your thoughtful opinions and arguments.

webrunner · September 25, 2005, 09:41:29 PM

I like the idea, but then again... i have shouts off most of the time.
You should prolly have a quotes or jokes database to which users can submit their quotes/jokes. We could set that up here, but the submissions would have to be moderated for obvious reasons.

inim · September 26, 2005, 12:24:57 AM

I don't like any bot which is non BG related on fibs. Here are some arguments.

First, techically speaking you can connect any information feed to fibs in a 50 line script. So why do it? We got RSS and other push channels for that. Feeding information (jokes, news, advertisements, quotes, you name it) to fibs just because it can be done easily is a bad idea. It is spam. Period.

Secondly, fibs has a limited amount of login slots ("show max"). If everybody runs bots at will, they are used up. That much on "you can gag it". I don't wanna gag it, i don't want it to exist.

Thirdly, I propose a poll on this issue in parallel to this discussion. Would one of the bot guys (juggler, tryout) please set up one?

inim

diane · September 26, 2005, 03:06:17 AM

Overall , I dont mind them too much - in quiet periods - like when bonehead used to shout - it livens things up. When things get hectic - a stupid row over nothing - it is nice to have a distraction. What I do kind of object to - is the same as with bonehead - they interrupt tourney shouts - so - could they be 'taught' to respect tourney times - and say have a couple of hours off around Fridays3, MiniMatches and Bago - the three definite scheduled tourneys? There may also be adamosads championship thingy - but I am not quite sure when that happens. The jist being - we know when some tourneys are held - could the airtime be freed for those?

tryout · September 26, 2005, 02:57:18 PM

Thanks for your opinions so far.

QuoteYou should prolly have a quotes or jokes database to which users can submit their quotes/jokes. We could set that up here, but the submissions would have to be moderated for obvious reasons.

I certainly wouldn't want to moderate submissions (on what, btw, sexual explicity, offense, low quality, style?). This is just asking for trouble, especially on FIBS. The databases exist and are rather big, 11000 jokes and 37000 quotes. Since they are selected completely at random new entries will have a very hard time to show up.
As I mentioned already, the jokes are actually rated by people. The bot takes only jokes which are rated above 8 out of 10.

QuoteOverall , I dont mind them too much - in quiet periods - like when bonehead used to shout - it livens things up. [..] What I do kind of object to - is the same as with bonehead - they interrupt tourney shouts - so - could they be 'taught' to respect tourney times - and say have a couple of hours off around Fridays3, MiniMatches and Bago - the three definite scheduled tourneys?

This should be possible. Shall this cover the starting periods of tournaments and some time before or also until they are over? Usually it's getting quiet when a tournament is half an hour in progress. It would be nice if the TDs could provide me with detailed times.

QuoteFirst, techically speaking you can connect any information feed to fibs in a 50 line script. So why do it? We got RSS and other push channels for that. Feeding information (jokes, news, advertisements, quotes, you name it) to fibs just because it can be done easily is a bad idea. It is spam. Period.

Yes, I know that as long as it's text based it can be brought to FIBS. I also understand the spam argument to some extend. But I think that the question is whether it's tolerable. It's too easy to shove it in the spam corner and denounce it. Quite some people seem to like it, so there is a benefit. On the other hand those that hate it can rather easily do something against it -- simply gag it, with JavaFIBS and perhaps other programs, too, forever. No more spam, even if you call it like this. It compares better to a newsletter than to spam. Granted, opt out only.

I'd also like to point out again the option to announce FIBS tournaments with the bots. What about this content? What do the TDs say about this?

QuoteSecondly, fibs has a limited amount of login slots ("show max"). If everybody runs bots at will, they are used up.

Your limited resource argument doesn't have any ground. There's one bot at a time logged in, not many, and for merely about 2 - 5 seconds. This doesn't take away anything from anybody.
Also, are you sure that "show max" really shows the maximum possible logins, or just what has been reached so far? Even if there was a limit, if it had been reached neither the bot could log in. So I don't see any point.

If you're concerned about wasted resoures on FIBS, do something about droppers, users with multiple nicks and more things. E.g., there's a control user for one bot, which logs in and out and checks every 5 minutes whether the bot is still logged in and alive.
Last but not least, shouts surely take up resources, too.

And I think e.g. you are shouting more per day than these 2 bots together. Not that I'd mind it. As opposed to others your shouts are perfectly bearable.

Regarding the poll I prefer to have a discussion and talk about arguments. Polls on FB haven't really proven to be, uhm, reliable. Well, I guess that's the fate of most online votings.

webrunner · September 26, 2005, 07:45:25 PM

You would have to moderate if any spam is posted f.i.

tryout · September 26, 2005, 08:03:38 PM

QuoteYou would have to moderate if any spam is posted f.i.

You're of course correct that submissions couldn't pass unmoderated. But since I don't see me doing this job, I gave reasons why new entries aren't necessary. Least problems.

Hardy_whv · September 26, 2005, 08:20:12 PM

Well, I usually do not listen too much to shouts. IMHO inims spam-argument does not count that much, as most of the shouts are spam already

If there would be a poll pro / con Quote-/JokeBot I would abstain.

But the idea of installing a TourneyAnnounceBot sound great to me

This Bot could either shout the upcoming tourneys and/or could be asked induvidually by players. TDs would get permission to feed the bot with their events.

Hardy

diane · September 27, 2005, 02:49:21 AM

Well, I will just speak for the tourneys I am involved in at all , so - if they could be off from say, 1400 - 1600 (UTC) on fridays (this changes when daylight saving kicks in and it is 1500 - 1700) - that should cover the shouting of the final etc. For Bago, the times are:
Every Sunday 11:00 GMT
Every Tuesday 20:00 GMT (From the last Sunday in March To the last Sunday in October)
Every Tuesday 21:00 GMT (From the last Sunday in October To the last Sunday in March)
Registration starts 30 mins before - so if they could go off for that - since there is a lot of activity for bago - collecting countries etc, and allow 1 hour for the major activity, that would be splendid.

As for the bots shouting tourneys - for sure - this would be very nice - on the day of an event - shouting perhaps every hour rather than at 30 min intervals. I would expect to see an improvement in player numbers fom this, and that cant be bad.

socksey · September 27, 2005, 05:29:01 AM

Since I have my own joke list that I send out and a lot that I get, I have heard most of the jokes, but once in a while I have a chuckle from one I may not have seen.

I'm a big quote fan so I love the quotes.

I guess you could say I don't object and I don't mind them in the middle of my tourneys either. I've learned how to ignore what I don't like in shouts either by mentally turning them off or by putting them on my villians list. It took me a few years to get to javafibs so this could be done nicely to include shouts.

It has been my habit to show up an hour or more before Mini-Matches and shout when it starts every 15 minutes. So, it would be nice if a bot did that for me.

Viva la bots! ^_^

socksey

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." - Unknown

Mookie · September 27, 2005, 06:55:06 PM

I was thinking it might be great if Socksey created a eroticlitbot which would randomly shout statements off the erotic page she endorsed several months ago. That could become very confusing.

mookie

dorbel · September 27, 2005, 07:03:35 PM

It's mildly amusing to have a JokeBot run by a German of course. When I worked at the Comedy Store we had a week of German comedians under the Banner of "You Only Win On Penalties". They went around asking everybody why this was thought to be amusing as "We have a very good football team". The audiences were utterly mystified by the German stand-ups and the experiment was not repeated.

Hardy_whv · September 27, 2005, 07:22:35 PM

QuoteIt's mildly amusing to have a JokeBot run by a German of course.... [snip]

You had some traumatic events with some Germans, hadn't you? Poor you

Hardy

diane · September 27, 2005, 07:36:13 PM

QuoteThe audiences were utterly mystified by the German stand-ups and the experiment was not repeated.

I can imagine german humour possibly struggling at the comedy store - where expectations are, shall we say, a little different from that - but they have a great sense of humour. One strong area is wordplay - which I find particularly appealing - course it all needs explaining to me...

what this word means and where it comes from - and what it is like that makes the joke - etc - but when I get there - it IS funny

My German tutor asked me to bring back a copy of this magazine when I was there, and although it may not appeal to all - what I could follow was funny - Titanic

Hardy_whv · September 27, 2005, 07:49:56 PM

Quote... - but they have a great sense of humour. ...

Thanks diane, I knew I can count on you!

Hardy

tryout · September 28, 2005, 03:18:21 PM

I've implemented that the bots respect the tournaments and shut up for those times. Yesterday's Bago had already shouts to itself until 21 UTC, well, except for the countless directly human produced lines. The bots will stay away Tuesdays from 19:30 till 21 UTC (accounted for DST), Wednesdays from 16:30 till 19 UTC, Fridays from 14 till 16 UTC (accounted for DST), and Sundays from 10:30 till 12 UTC. If any TD would like to change this, just drop me a note.

The Titanic magazine is great. You should also have a look at the Eulenspiegel!

And I'm sure that in the archives of either magazine (Titanic archive is for free) there must certainly be buried articles about how exactly foreigners take loving care of their prejudices about (in this case) Germans.

socksey · September 30, 2005, 12:25:30 AM

QuoteThat could become very confusing.

Explain please, mookie. Exactly what is confusing about eroticism?

I thought I taught you all I know!

socksey

"She doesn't have enough class to qualify as a b****." Ã¢â,¬â€œ Mellie, about Dr. Laura Schlesinger

inim · October 01, 2005, 01:14:00 AM

Just count the human shouts in this real world javafibs log. See my spam point?

Quote
ihr waves goodbye.
ihr waves goodbye again.
JokeBot shouts: You are so fat, I put a quarter up your butt and you spat out a Little Debbie cake.
oeleo waves goodbye.
oeleo waves goodbye again.
mgnu_expert shouts: Looks like jule dropped me! Would someone else like to play?
You shout: ban them bots from shout!
Slipshod shouts: inim<----true author of I Robot
Cheba waves goodbye.
Cheba waves goodbye again.
mgnu_advanced shouts: Looks like bobscafe dropped me! Would someone else like to play?

inim

Hardy_whv · October 01, 2005, 09:09:17 PM

QuoteJust count the human shouts in this real world javafibs log.
Quote
... 11 lines of FIBS shout ...
See my spam point?

Not yet inim. I don't think your little probe shows any sign of statistical relevance. I actually feel more spammed by those "xyz waves goodbye" and "xyz waves goodbye again".

Hardy

P.S.: Please don't feel forced to post some 1000 lines of shouts to prove statistical relevance

vegasvic · October 03, 2005, 03:12:54 AM

Inim is Right it is spam the point being if a human tells a joke its within a converstation . This bot comes out of the blue not relating to Jack Sh____! Joke is funny when it is in context to somethign said in shouts , not just some freakin list you find ,
Imin is so right what next you are going to list the frankfurt stock exchange for us tryout ?

diane · October 03, 2005, 09:38:15 AM

QuoteThis bot comes out of the blue not relating to Jack Sh____! Joke is funny when it is in context to somethign said in shouts , not just some freakin list you find ,

As opposed to just ranting endlessly about the living, the dead, the animate, the inanimate.... out of jokebot and you - guess which has the gag....

adamosad · October 03, 2005, 04:16:44 PM

QuoteOverall , I dont mind them too much - in quiet periods - like when bonehead used to shout - it livens things up. When things get hectic - a stupid row over nothing - it is nice to have a distraction. What I do kind of object to - is the same as with bonehead - they interrupt tourney shouts - so - could they be 'taught' to respect tourney times - and say have a couple of hours off around Fridays3, MiniMatches and Bago - the three definite scheduled tourneys? There may also be adamosads championship thingy - but I am not quite sure when that happens. The jist being - we know when some tourneys are held - could the airtime be freed for those?

Rating Championship Tourneys run every Sunday at 15:00 utc. For more info look at Rating Championship Tourney

Please Tryout make your bots to respect Rating Championship too (from 15:00 utc to 17:00 utc) Thx

tryout · October 03, 2005, 07:22:59 PM

QuotePlease Tryout make your bots to respect Rating Championship too (from 15:00 utc to 17:00 utc) Thx

Done.

vegasvic · October 04, 2005, 03:36:52 AM

jonesyjt · October 22, 2005, 02:39:14 PM

I would suggest keeping the qoutes and jokes short. Many of them flood the window, and I don't read the long ones. I bet others would agree.

jonesyjt

socksey · October 22, 2005, 11:53:39 PM

I agree! Short is best!

socksey

"Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself." - Chinese Proverb

desmo · October 24, 2005, 03:54:19 PM

Quotebot is harmless and usually brief.

Jokebot is inane. If I could simply ignore it I would be ok but it is hard not to read occasionally and whenever I do it is not simply a mater of it not being funny and therefore neutral or harmless; it is downright dire. My kids tell funnier jokes to the cat.
I should be able to ignore it but it puts me in a bad mood. It is like being cornered in a pub by an amorous drunk who tells long involved jokes.

Otherwise, I am a completley balanced and well informed observer and have no opinions on anything.

Desmo

diane · October 24, 2005, 04:10:46 PM

You're just jealous cos it is funnier than you

desmo · October 25, 2005, 12:52:25 PM

QuoteYou're just jealous cos it is funnier than you

It may well be funnier than me but you do not have a DesmoBot (thanks be to jayzes).
Hmmmmm thinks the power ..... the wimmin ..... the adoration .... the ratings ....
how do you become a bot anyway?

Desmo

souptree · November 16, 2005, 02:05:12 PM

I'd like to request a WeatherBot. Also, we need more JokeBots in various other languages. This English only thing is, like, totally racist. Oh, and if there's any way to create a DealBot to let us know when Amazon has special discounts available, that would be great too.

Thanks for the great contributions!

P.S. Would a TimeBot be overkill? I'm hungry. Please write a RecipeBot.

resh_lakish · November 16, 2005, 07:14:31 PM

***coming soon eurobot it waffles in all official EU languages***

lewscannon · November 17, 2005, 12:09:37 AM

QuoteIt is like being cornered in a pub by an amorous drunk who tells long involved jokes.

Or Mookie telling his stories about the different feet he's fondled.

socksey · December 04, 2005, 03:55:07 PM

QuoteFirst, techically speaking you can connect any information feed to fibs in a 50 line script. So why do it? We got RSS and other push channels for that. Feeding information (jokes, news, advertisements, quotes, you name it) to fibs just because it can be done easily is a bad idea.

I'm wondering if the multiple bots may be causing the problem we are now having with TBot and Tourneybot? If this could be the cause, I vote to kill them all.

I've had two nightmare Saturdays in a row now, having to switch manually after tourney sign up. TBot made it through Mini-Matches but failed just after start-up in Bagolympics. I won't be doing that indeffinatley.

socksey

"Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of husbands. Remember all men would be tyrants if they could." - Abigail Adams

souptree · December 05, 2005, 10:38:20 AM

LOL, you guys deleted my posting of a JokeBot joke??? What a joke.

souptree · December 05, 2005, 10:40:25 AM

Do tell. I can't wait to find out which genius moderator it was.

webrunner · December 05, 2005, 04:46:38 PM

Soup, this forum is open for everybody.
Socksey and i dicided together that the joke was poor taste and not the kind of stuff we want here on this forum.

You can make your point without posting the joke can't you?

tryout · December 05, 2005, 08:48:42 PM

QuoteI'm wondering if the multiple bots may be causing the problem we are now having with TBot and Tourneybot?

Definitely not. Just because someone in, say, Portugal buys a new radio yours won't suddenly break or in any way be affected.

tryout · December 05, 2005, 08:57:27 PM

Btw, in case not everybody has noticed it: Quite some weeks ago I changed the appearance frequency of QuoteBot and JokeBot. They now come at the full hour with JokeBot instead of QuoteBot every 3 hours. This is a reduction of 33% and 66%, respectively, if anybody wants to know.

News:

Future Of Quotebot And Jokebot