Top player vs. whole forum?

[blitzxz]

I think this might be interesting idea and it's done regularly at least in Finnish Backgammon Forum.

So the idea is that one player plays on other side and forum readers vote for their moves. The one player would move forced moves, trivial moves and roll dice and post polls. The moves and positions could be discussed under each poll and after closing voting roll-outs and bot analysis could be posted. To make this work there propably should be own category for match. The player could (for example) be someone with good success in FibsLeagammon and who wants to play and uses the forum.

Any interest?

[NIHILIST]

None at all.


Bob

[stog]

from him maybe........

[PersianLord]

This is a great idea, blitzx. In bgonline forums, they have this kind of matches and it's very entertaining and of great educational value.

Regards

[diane]

Yes those kinds of things are definitely fun - donz has/had something similar on his site, but having it all in one place is a big plus.

[stog]

i've asked juggler our latest master's winner, and if blitzxz could post the polls and make the moves on our behalf -- then we could be up and running fairly soon - as and when you decide the length of time between polling and moving - say a day or 2, or if a polled move option was > say 5 more than any other choices -- i don't know - what happened in the finnish forums?

also blitzxz could appoint co helpers to poll and post for when he was busy/away

[PersianLord]

I think bgonline's OLM is a good example for us to follow:

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/

Stick Rice, forum manager, posts positions and asks the members to express their opinion about Readers' move and after a 24-hours or so period, he plays the most voted move for them OTB and proceeds to the next move after making his own move. Then after each game he posts the whole game's process, analyzed by GNUBG's 2-ply here:

http://www.bgonline.org/olm.html

This has been a very useful educational tool for me in the past year. Even though we don't have the likes of Neil Kazaros here to know how does a WC player think about making his moves, I think this match(es) still will provide us good opportunities to learn. Personally, I am very eager to know how does the likes of NIHI, dorbel, blitzx AND resh_lakish the great thinks and analyze on positions.

Let's give it a try, folks!

Regards -- PL

[dorbel]

Even more interesting if a third party selects the next dice roll, so that the play always has a level of difficulty. I wouldn't mind doing that bit.

[blitzxz]

i've asked juggler our latest master's winner, and if blitzxz could post the polls and make the moves on our behalf -- then we could be up and running fairly soon - as and when you decide the length of time between polling and moving - say a day or 2, or if a polled move option was > say 5 more than any other choices -- i don't know - what happened in the finnish forums?

also blitzxz could appoint co helpers to poll and post for when he was busy/away

Yes, I can do this. However I think it's little bit cumbersome because I would have to coordinate also with juggler and it would be lot easier if the player would do the posting. I think 2 days is good voting time and 5-point match is the best length because it has cube decisions but won't last forever. Choosing rolls would lead to more difficulty but I feel it's against the spirit. The most trivial moves don't need voting and also it's up to the poll poster to decide when it's time to vote for doubling. Voting for double in every move wouldn't make sense, of course. That should remain at least some difficulty in every vote but this doesn't mean we should jump over moves that have even slightest chance for error.

[stog]

unfortunately mr juggler can't oblige this time, but i have asked the next in line... and yes whoever played as the "expert", would post themselves i agree and as our honoured guest/expert, would not be required to post any pics, ......

perhaps we should attempt a trial run of a single game, and i was wondering whether zorba and/or dorbel would oblige, although i don't fully understand

dorbel-----"Even more interesting if a third party selects the next dice roll, so that the play always has a level of difficulty. I wouldn't mind doing that bit".

would work , except when the fibsboarder's poll was tied perhaps.....

[PersianLord]

Even more interesting if a third party selects the next dice roll, so that the play always has a level of difficulty. I wouldn't mind doing that bit.

I am opposed to this idea. The dice should be random.

[dorbel]

The point about a third party selecting rolls that have a level of difficulty is to make every play interesting and instructive. I can't see the point of taking several days making plays that are automatic for everyone just because a set of dice rolled somewhere dictate that. The point of this is to be a learning process isn't it?
I might be interested in taking the expert roll for a trial game (certainly flattered!), but I don't think that I would be able to make a long term comittment. In any case, changing the expert regularly would add variety.
The last year has seen a noticeable rise in the number of very strong players using fibs on a regular basis and it will be good to tap into this source. It is always good to know the answer to a backgammon problem, but infinitely more valuable in my opinion is to know the thought process that produced a play from a strong player. Organising our thought processes and working from a sound methodology is more important to our improvement than any amount of technical knowledge.
I would learn more from hearing jukins, Sakis and _Z_, to name but three, discussing a position than I would from observing the result of a Gnu rollout, even if they came up with the wrong answer!

[Tomawaky]

Changing dice disturb me too 
But following the Gammonline Match (at GammonU now) vs Kit Woolsey and the readers (same process as Stick's BGOnline.org) is very interesting even when move seems obvious.
It's sure that forced moves and very obvious moves can be passed, but as we are in a improving process most of the situations worth some discussion.
For the doubling cube vote, it can be done with the move vote. No need to wait the result of the cube.

Another subject. Position will be post by jpg ? Is there any other way to do without consuming too much space in the same way as it is done at Stick or Kit website ?

[stog]

factotum kindly agreed to be our first expert ( i will play this match.  please advise me, via email in my info line.  how do i enter a move; get my roll; make comments)

i replied
thx --i'll let you know when i know -- keep an eye on fibsboard too ---as everyone is contributing to its modus operandi -- and you may have some suggestions of your own to make!! thx again -- i'll keep you informed

[stog]

perhaps we should attempt a trial run of a single game.......(using gnubg generated dice and my moves - unless i think of a superior move

3 point match; game 1; your first roll, what r your possible plays for poll? (or if too easy, just play....) also add option to poll for "any cube action?)

[spielberg]

Plays itself I'd have thought - 8 7 * 8 7 6 5 6 5

[diane]

I would do that too....

[stog]

ok.....my roll was 33: bar/22 11/5 8/5

(modus operandi ---using gnubg -saved game, then screenshot -crop,saved as jpg "fbgame1(3)roll2")insert using additional options below on posting)

your move i believe................(remember set up poll if you need to, adding an option for "any cube action if necessary?)

[diane]

(remember set up poll if you need to, adding an option for "any cube action if necessary?)

er...how will we do cube action if you roll for us after you make the move ...tell me if I am being  thick, I don't quite see how this is going just yet...[off to have a sneaky think about the move while you answer that  ]

[stog]

indeed - :0
i should have presented my play without your dice first maybe? -
i will from now on............


but that is why we have have started this trial match........to ascertain ways to do this which will suit fibsboard!
ive just had a look at the other sites and their different ways -

as u say mr wacky jpg delivery takes space, but this is why we ask for donations, or a lowly subscription of £5 a year, from fibsboarders, to recoup the investment we made in unlimited space go to donate for details

even so cropping to 343 pixels before uploading and keeping <50kbs is desired.
but it is a nice way  to view, and not difficult to set up and upload.

ps for newbies --click the board to make it bigger and to hear the crowd.....