Why isn't FIBS so popular? Any suggestions

[McNabbMpls]

Yvon,

Good question.  You have an open mind and an honest desire to make things better.
You get my vote for board Member of the month!

I've always believed that the vitality of any organization is based on its ability to attract and retain new members.

Please check out the following link and then think about the advice this new user was given and  how "welcome" he feels at FIBS.

http://www.fibsboard.com/droppers/new-players-get-barred-by-miss-manners/

[diane]

We could have posted a whole load of very welcoming stuff, but it would all have been bollocks. 

Best to describe it as it is, explain how to use what is actually there, and further explain that if this completely free site does not suit you, there are others - such as Yahoo [I lasted 2 matches there] or sites you can pay for - which will be regularly updated and easy to use, and wont have droppers. Heck, you can even gamble real money there.

If you want to make fibs better, start coding, not posting, and get the output on sourceforge.

[don]

The key thing FIBS lacks is a direct HTML interface.

It'd be so easy to write one that there's no excuse for FIBS' not having one.  I suspect a whole pile of users don't stay to appreciate FIBS because of the hassle of selecting, downloading and using clients.

--
don

[NIHILIST]

Share your thoughts with Patti. You know how much she enjoys your ideas of how to run FIBS.

Bob

[ah_clem]

Has anybody else noticed that in addition to this thread about how fibs doesn't have enough participation, there's another thread gong simultaneously about how fibs is often reaching it's upper limit on logins and people are having trouble connecting?

FIBS is certainly one complicated place!

[KDP]

a quick comparison, as i write this its about 730 am on monday jan 17 us eastern time. 

fibs: 140 users

safeharbor games: 118 users but only 24 in the "competitive" rated room

gridgammon: 79 users

gammonsite:27 users

i didn't sample sites like yahoo or pogo because i don't consider those serious backgammon sites and i also didnt sample any of the money sites as i personally don't play for money online.

given these numbers i find it strange the assertions that fibs isn't a popular place to play when the numbers say otherwise.

now some personal observations, fibs (and to a certain extent dailygammon) are like the PBS of backgammon sites.  they are free non commercial sites which rely on the public to make donations in order to survive.  ive been playing here for over 10 years and in that same time have sampled just about every other backgammon server out there and as others have said, keep coming back.  true there are some drawbacks, the registration process isnt the most user friendly, droppers, now the phone users.  certain fibsters have been known to be abusive and the language is sometimes R rated but all in all, for me anyway that is part of the charm.  fibs is certainly in my opinion more of a community than any of the other sites i've played at, and i believe that is its greatest assest.  ive seen fibs grow not only in the number of users but in the other stuff as well,  daily tourneys, leagues, etc.  one other thing that separates fibs from the other sites is this forum.  i dont know of any other site which has something similar and this goes also to the sense of community and keeping everyone informed of what is going on.   so, you want to play at gridgammon with the giants go ahead, just remember you certainly wont enjoy the freedom to say whats on your mind like you do here.

[socksey]

Vici suggested we try another backgammon site recently, playok.com.  We went there together and played each other and that was not bad although it took a little getting used to.  It was easy to use and penalized droppers by time.  The matches were limited to time by the people establishing a table.  This was OK except some of the times were really short so you could get timed out and lose the match easily. 

Second time I tried to play there, many rooms were filled and I had to go wherever there was a vacancy.  Being a newbie, I got no invites and when I tried sitting at a table, I got no response and left out of boredom waiting.  Third time, I got same treatment, but I started a table of my own and got no takers either.  I won't be going back unless I take my own player with me.   

Fibs still wins, hands down!    

socksey



My imperfections and failures are as much a blessing from God as my successes and my talents, and I lay them both at His feet. - Mahatma Gandhi

[Schigolch]

Why isn't FIBS so popular? Easy answer. The oh-so-great community has harrassed a number of players until they've quit, or has agreed when individuals have done so.

[socksey]

Where have you been since Patti's new happier community quest began?   

We are not allowed to say what we think any longer if it harrasses or adds to drama in shouts.  At times there are no shouts at all.   

Popularity abounds since the insurgence of phone users which almost always keeps Fibs populated over 200 and reaching close to 300 at least once already.     We have timeouts.     We have LAG.   

So, in spite of the negative comments, Fibs thrives, and less happily IMHO. 

socksey



You cannot create a statue by smashing the marble with a hammer, and you cannot by force of arms release the spirit or the soul of man. - Confucius

[dorbel]

Fibs does thrive and for me the behaviour restrictions in shouts are a huge improvement. The most impressive feature of these is that this has been achieved by people actually changing their behaviour rather than by heavy handed policing.
Socksey may miss the old days of harassment and insult, but I suspect that she is in the minority.
Subjectively speaking lag is no better or worse than before and the timeouts aen't a big deal either.
Kudos to Patti for improving the site.

[diane]

All those wishing for the old days are in a minority...and living in a dream world if they think things are worse.

I further wish that other regulars would try to debate differing points of view, which is very valid and useful in a global arena, in a productive way. Hearing different points of view is not a bad thing, dismissing or ridiculing other points of view in abusive language is the only no no.

[socksey]

Yes, I agree your behavior has improved, dorbel, and so has yours, diane.  My own behavior has even improved!  Kudos to us all for improvement! 

I disagree with you about the the lag.  Maybe I should have qualified that with "during my peak usage times.  I'm sure it has become worse, and the timeouts are most annoying to me because I am often watching other players both as a learning tool and as a tourney director.    diane may not experience this so much running tourneys in the slack (under 200) times and maybe not so much the lag either or maybe you're both living in a dream world, or maybe you never watch anyone else play.   

socksey



I would not exchange the laughter of my heart for the fortunes of the multitudes; nor would I be content with converting my tears...into calm.  It is my fervent hope that my whole life on this earth will ever be tears and laughter. - Kahlil Gabran

[moonshadow123]

socksey gratuitously puts down Schigolch and his legitimate complaint, then uses that as a pretext to whine about the new FIBS policy. What further makes socksey's put down laughable is that Schigolch first of all is not an open forum shouter and therefore cannot be labeled as "abusive" and second of all, what Schigolch  stated is actually correct, that a number of FIBS players have quit or left the site due to nasty harassment or the snake pit community generated by the open shout environment.

Where have you been since Patti's new happier community quest began?  

We are not allowed to say what we think any longer if it harrasses or adds to drama in shouts.  At times there are no shouts at all.  

diane and dorbel have effectively and soundly rebutted what can justifiably be called socksey's  vacuous whining and nothing more need be added to that unless socksey wishes to defend her position of being a sadistic voyeur who, though not a direct participant, gets off on watching nasty snakes being devoured by increasingly nastier ones in the FIBS shout snake pit.

Despite the common sense wisdom dispensed by diane and dorbel, whiner socksey neither acknowledges nor reponds to any of their points other than to retort:

Yes, I agree your behavior has improved, dorbel, and so has yours, diane.

Meanwhile, socksey's behavior towards what Schigolch posted is arguably insulting, as socksey completely ignored Schigolch's point by making a trite put down on something Schigolch never said in the first place and then used that as a springboard to whine about patti's new policies.

[diane]

Yes, I agree your behavior has improved, dorbel, and so has yours, diane.  

I disagree with you about the the lag.  

I have no perception of my behaviour changing at all. That means...shouts is pretty much the way I have always enjoyed it the most, lively, funny, lots of quirky banter, political and social discussions from people in different parts of the world with very different perspectives to the ones rammed down our throats by local media, tourneys going on, people asking for - and getting - help, backgammon discussions [should that be first in the list  ] - I learned everything I know about two point matches from those discussions all those years ago  . It has quiet times, particularly in this time zone and at those times I concentrate on my game  

I wasnt referring to your comments about lag or time out, as I simply dont register those whines. They are part and parcel of what we are involved in. I accept the technical limitations, knowing that this ability to communicate with the whole world in the blink of an eye is just truly amazing. I also know that those who bring this to us are continuously improving this product, with software improvements, hardware improvements and infrastructure improvements.  I guess thinking or feeling  'it was so much better in the old days' is just not in my personality, my mantra would be more 'It is better than ever, and improving'.

But yes, it might be a lot easier for me to be happy with the time outs, given that they seem to be about an hour here at peak time  

[socksey]

Lucky you, diane!  Our timeouts seem to be every 5 min at times!   

Hey, moonshadow!  Rave on!  I have been called much worse by better than you on Fibs.  I'll share my list with you sometime.  Meanwhile, I'll go off in a corner and skulk for a while and wonder if I really could be all that bad.   

socksey



We cannot tell what may happen to us in the strange medley of life.  But we can decide what happens in us---how we can take it, what we do with it---and that is what really counts in the end. - Joseph Fort Newton

[moonshadow123]

Hey, moonshadow!  Rave on!  I have been called much worse by better than you on Fibs.  I'll share my list with you sometime.  Meanwhile, I'll go off in a corner and skulk for a while and wonder if I really could be all that bad.   :cry

I am attacking socksey's stated opinions and the manner in which she used schigolch's post as a pretext to complain about patti's new policy, which has nothing to do with her value or worth as a human being or any other winsome qualities she may or may not have.

As socksey neither agreed nor disagreed with any of my points and completely failed to engage the issues I raised altogether, its really impossible to have a meaningful dialog.

Instead,  socksey accuses me of calling her something horrible and this will be added to a list of bad names people have called her, which leads me to suspect she lacks the intelligence or English comprehension skills necessary to grapple rationally with the points I was attempting to make.

Simply put, I am very pleased with Patti's new policy in FIBs open shouts and I will take socksey or anyone else to task for whining about it.

Now, let's play some backgammon.

[Patti]

For what it's worth, measured (somewhat) objectively, lag is down tremendously.  I found a condition that could cause a multi-second lag as often as once per minute...  and then shot the problem in the head.  There is one known cause of lag remaining, but it happens on the order of a few times per day as opposed to many times per hour.

As for timeouts, they are 19 minutes under normal server load, and 5 minutes under heavy load.  Heavy load is defined as being at over 80% capacity.  FIBS is currently limited to 299 users logged in at once, and we've hit that on at least a couple of occasions.  I don't think it's unreasonable to time out idle connections after five minutes when the server is under heavy load.

[socksey]

I am attacking socksey's stated opinions and the manner in which she used schigolch's post as a pretext to complain about patti's new policy, which has nothing to do with her value or worth as a human being or any other winsome qualities she may or may not have.

Please excuse me, Schi, if my manner was unsavory.  It wasn't meant to be.   Since the atmosphere on Fibs has improved lately, I was surprised by your comment.  I meant nothing disrespectful whatsoever.  I thought perhaps you had been away. 

Moonshadow, I have never felt the need to use a "pretext" to complain about anything and Patti has heard my complaints.  No need for you to point them out further, and they certainly don't have anything to do with anything other than just that.   I tend to be straightforward and sometimes blunt in my opinions.  Because of this, I am often misunderstood by those with heightened sensibilities.  And, to add to the confusion, being a woman, I sometimes change my mind.    Although some people call this being "two faced".  So be it.  Ask me if I care. 

As socksey neither agreed nor disagreed with any of my points and completely failed to engage the issues I raised altogether, its really impossible to have a meaningful dialog.

Happy now?      

I have been a bit swamped with other things in my life besides Fibs, Fibsboard, and TDing.  I don't always respond, especially when I don't understand the whys and wherefores of comments from someone I don't know at all.

Instead,  socksey accuses me of calling her something horrible and this will be added to a list of bad names people have called her, which leads me to suspect she lacks the intelligence or English comprehension skills necessary to grapple rationally with the points I was attempting to make.

I merely told you to rave on and I did not say you called me something horrible.  Apparently, the problem of comprehension lies with you.   

Simply put, I am very pleased with Patti's new policy in FIBs open shouts and I will take socksey or anyone else to task for whining about it.

Now, let's play some backgammon.

I'm happy you are happy with the new policies being implimented. 

Let's get something else straight, tho, before I quit.     I don't whine.     I b#t#h.     If you don't know the difference, that's your problem.

socksey



Patience is the key to paradise. - Turkish proverb

[jackdaddy]

This is all fabulous. Now, let's all enjoy a nice big steaming cup of...

[diane]

Certainly...after you jd...