Personal responsibility and FIBS drama

[RickrInSF]

thank u moonshadow, i didn't know how to explain my rage, but u got it just right

[Patti]

By the way, I do not expect the cleanup process to go perfectly smoothly.  There have been repercussions on FIBS, and will be until the dust settles.  There will be people who are unhappy about this and will lash out, especially those who have been the worst offenders in the past and who aren't happy about losing their playground of vitriol.

I've already gotten a couple of complaints about shouted drama and overreaction about this-- "you said something I didn't like, let's all report it to Patti".

And yes, Bob, I did respond to you in a less-than-straightforward manner when you asked me why you'd lost your shouts.  I wanted to know whether you were aware that you'd shouted racist vitriol, or had any idea why you'd lost your shouts.

[NIHILIST]

Since I opened our conversation by asking you why I'd lost my shouts, your response here is more than a little disingenuous, but that's nothing new for you.

Bob

[sarah]

1st february

35 deaths in a bombing in moscow
32 wounded in a bombing in istambul
15 deaths in Irak
6 injured in a bombing in thailand
Bombing in Kandahar
Nice hurricane over Australia
Egypt, army shoots the crowd
...

Have a nice day with your fibs worries

[KissMyAss]

1st february

35 deaths in a bombing in moscow
32 wounded in a bombing in istambul
15 deaths in Irak
6 injured in a bombing in thailand
Bombing in Kandahar
Nice hurricane over Australia
Egypt, army shoots the crowd
...

Have a nice day with your fibs worries

Totally agree with this!!  Nicely done.   

[socksey]

Sorta puts things in perspective, huh?   

socksey



Keep adding little by little and you will soon have a big hoard. - Latin proverb

[KissMyAss]

Definitely does.    If you see this before i catch up with you socksey, i need to chat with ya.  hugs

[dorbel]

Of course we need a sense of proportion and our little doings on fibs are not in any sense important, but that doesn't mean that we should adopt an "anything goes" attitude. World peace is founded on the principal that it is correct and productive for people to speak to each other in a peaceful way, personal differences and antipathies notwithstanding. No harm in attempting to bring that about on fibs.

[diane]

Maybe we should see if Jerry Springer is up for a televised FIBs 'clear the air' session 

[KissMyAss]

Poor old Jerry.  He would need therapy halfway through the process, and the show would get cancelled!   lololol

[moonshadow123]

Maybe we should see if Jerry Springer is up for a televised FIBs 'clear the air' session 

Under the new MOTD guidelines, this would be impossible.

[KissMyAss]

Found this on a trawl through Google, and have posted it in it's entireity, but for verification, the link is in the last line of the post.  This man has got the whole thing sewn up, and he doesn't even know us!!  lol


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FPD, the Flamer Personality Disorder?!!
Internet Troll as a form of mental illness
W. Beaty, 2001
I've met a certain class of people on Newsgroups and e-lists who all seem to have the same "symptoms." I am led to suspect that their type of behavior might be a form of mental illness. To discuss this, first I must define it. My list of diagnostic criteria for FPD, the FLAMER PERSONALITY DISORDER is below. (grin) Know anyone like this? It's a composite description of two real-world people I know, plus three of the worst internet trolls I've encountered, plus the "flamer" side of my own personality (yes, we all have one.) 





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WARNING: As a psychologist, the author of this page would make a good electrical engineer! This webpage is half-joking. But only half. I have no experience in psychology except as a customer of marriage councilors and as the subject of too much self-examination. On the other hand, I was much more of an idiot myself in my younger days, and it's easy to list the following symptoms when you can see every one of them from inside. (The term "flamer" is short for "flaming ass****," also called "troll" or "being a dick.") On Youtube they're called "Haters." More about me if you must know.
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FPD Symptoms:
1.Namecaller: This defines the flamer. "Flamer" means "namecaller"... -->

2. Competitive/argumentative: flamers are fighters; verbal brawlers. We greatly enjoy arguments for their own sake, and will start flamewars intentionally.... -->


3. Amoral: we think that our insults, verbal abuse, character attacks, and even death threats are perfectly acceptable behavior, once "justified"... -->


4. Vengeful: flamers believe that once an insult has been received, it becomes perfectly acceptable to return the insult, or even to embark on a longrunning insult stream... -->


5. Deceitful: we see nothing wrong with deception and distortion as long as we're not caught... -->


6. Narcisstic: we have extreme vanity, taking the form of an exquisite sensitivity to anything which even SLIGHTLY resembles an insult... -->


7. Paranoid: we flamers constantly display secretive behavior, being careful to never freely discuss personal info about our schooling, experience, everyday lives... -->


8. No self-doubt. Perfect people never monitor themselves to avoid mistakes... -->


9. Self-blind: No insight into our own flaws and foibles... -->


10. Hypocritical: totally enmeshed in a self-serving bias: "when I do something, it's a pure and justified deed, but when you do exactly the same thing, it's a shameful and disgusting PLOY." -->


11. Self-important: we have a very low opinion of others, and an exalted (if dishonest) opinion of ourselves... -->


12. Denying/projecting: We cannot see reality honestly, but must constantly manipulate it by erasing some parts and distorting others. -->


13. Pervasive, long-standing, intense symptoms -->




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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." - anon

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megalothymia - the need to be seen as being superior to other people.

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Links elsewhere What Makes a Smeghead?
Typical Flamer Types
Flamer psychology
WP: Don't be a dick
Diane's 'Flame Retardant'
alt.usenet.kooks FAQ
The Lying disease
The People of the Lie
The People of the Lie (book)
'Flame' , and 'Troll'
Schopenhauer tricks
Conversational Terrorism
Handbook of Logical Fallacies
Rhetorical Strategems
Fallacies I, II, III
Links: fallacies
Propaganda Analysis
Fallacious Arguments
If I Were A Spammer (song)
Flayme
Narcissitic Personality Disorder
Kook Appriasal Test
Personality Disorders
Symptoms list
How to be PERSUASIVE
Some symptoms of BPD


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Misery of Social Life #15, "To be obliged frequently to meet in company a man who opposes every remark for the purpose of starting an argument, in which he is always more vociferous than convincing." from The Miseries of Human Life by J. Beresford, 1806

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"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him." - Galileo

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FLAMEWARS: SYNERGISTIC COMBINATIONS OF THE ABOVE:

Invariably a FPD flamer will start a flamewar. First the flamer attacks another subscriber unexpectedly. It happens because the flamer felt insulted (exquisite sensitivity to insults), but usually this insult was entirely in his/her own mind. But the flamer never considers that perhaps he made a mistake while interpreting the insult (no self-doubt), and he also sees a NEED to answer every insult with insults (vengeful, narcissistic.)


Having created a fight while blaming others for starting it, the flamer then lays into his victim, (amoral, combative), while seeing his own actions as a righteous battle against an evil enemy (projection.) If the victim seems hurt, the flamer will be disgusted by such weakness (amoral.) But if the victim responds in kind, the flamer will immediately complain bitterly about this, while steadfastly denying that the type of attacks he so hates are identical to the ones he's using himself (hypocrisy, self-serving bias.) If other subscribers object, the flamer ignores them as beneath contempt (egotistical), or because he KNOWS they must be wrong without even listening to their reasoning (no self-doubt.) Or perhaps he ignores them because he is certain that they have hidden agendas, and their complaints could only be false constructs meant to mislead. (denial/projection.)


The FPD flamer typically ignores a moderator and refuses to alter his behavior, and can only be stopped by ejection from the forum. Sometimes flamers attack the moderator in order to get ejected (and therefore feel smug righteousness at being "censored" or "martyred.") A flamer will occasionally be shocked by being banned from a forum, and actually reconsider his behavior. But this is rare. Usually they're too far gone for this to penetrate their immense psychological defenses. They will refuse all responsibility for the problem (deceit, denial), blame it on the moderator or on the group for conspiring against them in private (paranoia), and totally refuse to look at their own mistakes in an honest light (denial, deceit, self-blind.)


Heh. Don't you just LOVE encountering a full-blown FPD-type flamer?




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"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart." -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"Put an end once and for all to this discussion of what a good person should be, and be one."
- Marcus Aurelius


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Nobody is worthless: they can always serve as a bad example! If you hate flamers, don't attack them. Instead, try to stay painfully aware of the "flamer side" of your own personality, and don't ever act that way. If you think you HAVE no Flamer within yourself, then you'd better be Ghandi, because if you're not, then you've got a very serious case of self-blindness. You might be 100% flamer without knowing it! Does this scare you? It should. It's no joke.


Below is some REAL info. A note about the following. A personality disorder must "lead to distress or impairment", but many flamers seem well adapted to modern life. Instead it is EVERYONE AROUND THEM who becomes distressed or impaired. They're like a happy and well-adjusted tumor exuding poison that kills the body. Another note: much of the above I lifted from Peck's People of the Lie In other words, the flamer is the "online persona" of one of Dr. Peck's examples of human evil. Some flamers might not be evil so much as sick; suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)


And most important: have some compassion. Mental illness is a true illness, so don't take these attacks so personally. In some cases, Personality Disorders are created by extremely cruel childhood mental abuse which victims received from parents who themselves had a disorder. Emotional child abuse leaves no physical trace, so it probably occurs far more often than anyone realizes. Don't fight with the sick person, but also think twice about welcoming them into your home (or your forum.)


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Personality Disorders: general
The definition of "personality disorder" from the APA's DSM-IV manual: "an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectation of the individual's culture, is pervasive and inflexible, has an onset in adolescence or early adulthood, is stable over time, and leads to distress or impairment."

Dr. S. Vaknin gives this list of common features of all Personality Disorders



Self-centeredness that manifests itself through a me-first, self-preoccupied attitude .
Lack of individual accountability that results in a victim mentality and blaming others, society and the universe for their problems
Lack of perspective-taking and empathy
Manipulative and exploitative behavior
Unhappiness, suffering from depression and other mood and anxiety disorders
Vulnerability to other mental disorders, such as obsessive-compulsive tendencies and panic attacks
Distorted or superficial understanding of self and others' perceptions, being unable to see his or her objectionable, unacceptable, disagreeable, or self-destructive behaviors or the issues that may have contributed to the personality disorder
Socially maladaptive, changing the rules of the game, introducing new variables, or otherwise influencing the external world to conform to their own needs
No hallucinations, delusions or thought disorders (except for the brief psychotic episodes of Borderline Personality Disorder)

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"To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he is doing is good"
- Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn

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SOME BOOKS ABOUT THIS PROBLEM:
People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil (I highly recommend this one.)
Emotional Vampires: Dealing With People Who Drain You Dry
'Controlling' People: recognizing, understanding, dealing with
Gentle art of verbal self defense
In Sheep's Clothing (dealing w/manipulative people) the covert-agressive personality type
Malignant Self-love
   






http://amasci.com/weird/flamer.html
Created and maintained by Bill Beaty. Mail me at: .