Mini-Matches, To be or not to be?

[Kari_Grandi]

Take your money games to Gamesgrid along with your 2 gamers Kari

Ihave my own opion and i don think i have insulted anyone that has responded .

hmmmmm...  

[vegas_vic]

Anyways Kari i have never asked anyone in FIBS to play me for money and use paypal .

i have seen you a many times shout that  .

i spoke to Patti she has no problems with the 2 game she finds that there is a cube statagy and that the people that join are on there own.

so like i said the buyer beware

What ever turns you on boys and girls ,

my last post on the subject i dont find 2 games of any value to fibs comunity.

[socksey]

Vic,

I know you believe strongly what you are saying about this game and I know you have the best interests of Fibs in your heart.  However, since Patti has no objection to the 2-pt tourney, I will continue to have it.  

You can rest assured the disclaimer will be included in shouts for the novices, so you have made an improvement for them.  Although I did try to notify them in the past, it was done in a haphazard way, not done on a regular basis or with a regular pattern.  I'm sure I missed some players, so this way, all will know of the pitfalls they can encounter in this game and decide for themselves if they want to play.  

If popularity continues, then gogogiz and I will continue to host Mini-Matches with the addition of one other host possible.

Thank you for your concern for Fibs newbies.  

socksey



"A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me, she said 'no'." Woody Allen


 

[MND]

Lets say a 1800 player play a 1400 player
In a 1-pointer the strong is expected to win 61% wheras in a 2-pointer, the strong is expected to win 66%.

So obviously the weaker player will pick up many rating points if she choses to double immediately and probably lose  as many rating points in the cases where the weaker and stronger choses to drag it out more games (More skill involved, different takepoint, GG and GS checker play and so on).

Does this mean it should be forbidden? Not in my opinion, but still 2-point matches is pretty uninteresting and usually used as a rating ploy.

[MND]

Bye the way, I think cubeless 2-point matches could be interesting.
Regards

[MND]

chris you are wrong you do not always have to take the cube being a strong player .

if you listen to kit or other experts you still have a 40% to 20% wining at 2away 1 away

i am assuming you might value your gammoning ablity as they do at 30% for stronger player and 15% for weaker player
So here i read that as the stronger player i still have a shot at winning the match by refusing

the weaker player has no choice.  he or she has to cube.  all advantage is stronger player.  all the flexabilty is on his side.

Sorry, I dont get this vic
The strong player must of course take as long as she is inside the takepoint, or are you talking about players who move the checkers at random?
MND

[vegas_vic]

Yes of course he has to take if he is in the take point of 30%
MND .

I guess you said it better then i did i have no desire to ban anyones fun here in fibs.
My thing was to point out how unfair it was to players that do not know .
And once you do know the cube stratagy then the game is up and it becomes as you said a rating ploy ,
I think also what you said about maybe it should be a 2 pt cubless game i would buy that .
much more intresting .
What i was also trying to say was Kits thinking was , the stronger player really doesnt have to cube he can wait for a better position , but the weaker player has to no matter and try to bring it up to 50% %50%

I just wanted the uniformed be informed .

PSS i am happy Diane the 2pt helped you undersand the -2 2- game you can google 2away game and read to your hearts content on the subject .

Yours

Vic

[diane]

PSS i am happy Diane the 2pt helped you undersand the -2 2- game you can google 2away game and read to your hearts content on the subject .

So can any newbie...thing is just like them - I had no idea such a thing existed to google....

[vegas_vic]

Well now that you understand it what is the use of playing a inflated tourney ?

fun right ?

Still hold the opion its bull !!

Like MND said its a manupulation and why not make it a 2pt with no cube if you like mini's

Anyways i am not the police here and i am happy at least you guy's will tell novice and newbies they have to cube first .

thx for all your responses to this idot and not a nice person

Sincerly

victor Vic  

[diane]

Oddly enough, the majority of these matches turn out to be cubeless - since it is very hard to convince people that the theory is sound..    

[socksey]

Right you are, diane!  Since I have been running this tourney, I have had occasion to watch innumerable matches and only a small percentage of players cube right away...........very small.  Maybe that will change, now.  

socksey



"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

[don]

I honestly have no clue why Vegas Vic singled me out to start this thread nor do I care what he says except to point out that I've never bothered to cheat the rating system, nor have I requested RepBot vouches for myself or for any multi-ids as vic has done.  I have none, vic does.

If Vic has a problem with cheaters on FIBS or gratuitous egos abusing RepBot, I wish he'd leave me out of the discussion and use a mirror.

[don]

By the way... in the event anyone is curious about the bogus two-point scam that vic accused me of in the post that opens this thread:

• Play matches with low rated players;
• Select those poor players with high experience;
• Play them for two for rapid advance in ratings because they don't understand the cube.

This is more or less the NIHI formula which I've never bothered with.  Please consult with the best players on FIBS (NIHILIST, Biggles_whatever) for clarification.  (Most of these fools have mulit-IDs)

[NIHILIST]

I think I probably introduced 2 point matches to FIBS when I created my NIHILIST nick. The idea was to develop some strategies that might come in handy in real 2 away-2 away situations. I was inspired to do this by a player named one_pointer who did a similar experiment with 1 point matches, then posted his thoughts on RGB. I took a lot of heat for everything from ripping off poor, unsuspecting newbies to cheating the FIBS rating system, none of which I care about.

As has been pointed out here, the lower rated player's upside is greater in 2 pointers than in 1 pointers. He just has to grasp the concept of doubling ASAP and then, of course, winning. So who's getting ripped off ? If FIBS is a tool to better one's game for real life play, hopefully the newbie or intermediate will learn something about cube handling that will serve him well in real situations.

Patti has endorsed the concept, saying she finds a STRATEGY present in 2 pointers. As far as playing 2 point tourneys on FIBS, my feeling is it adds another dimension. For those who object, there are plenty of other tourney opportunities.

SHALOM !


NIHI

[vegas_vic]

Well lets just end it here.
becuse it looks like don has arrived and the thread will go in a different direction.

After you get the cube asap theroy, what other stratagey is there?
its a pointless 2 pt match )

[socksey]

First I will have to ask you all to bear with all my mistakes here and hope that you will get my point; Second I do not want to sound like Don and be ######ing about nothing, I find 2 game tourneys or 2 game matches as having no value but to inflate a 1 gamer, meaning its played as a one game for twice the rating points.

don,

how is this singling you out?  vic is singling out my mini-matches.  mention of you was coincidental, i believe, unless i am reading it wrong.   ^_^

socksey



"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." - Lynn Lavner

[Zorba]

A long thread, and still ZERO evidence that 2pt matches would somehow be "unfair" to newbies.

It's complete nonsense to "warn" players about 2pt matches.

There's nothing about a 2pt match that makes it less fair to newbies or weak players than f.i. a 1pt match or 3pt match.

Strong players are SUPPOSED to have an advantage. Unlike some players seem to think, backgammon is not all about lucky dice.

BTW, the takepoint in a 2pt match for the stronger player is quite a lot higher than 30%... How much higher? Being able to determine that is one of the things that makes one a stronger player!

There's a lot to learn about 2pt matches... for weaker players AND for stronger players.

Anyhow, the 2pt tourneys aren't about STRONG players vs. WEAK players.  You get paired randomly. If a 1900 player plays a 1700 player there's a good chance the 1700 player will cube in time and then the strong player has the worst of it... he'd rather have played a 1ptr.

[adamosad]

Well for all situations there are advantages and disadvantages.

The only question here is...what Mini-matches' owner should do?

Option 1:Match length 1 point. My personal opinion is that such an action will give us less pleasure...

Option 2:Match length 3+ points.... But this won't be consistent with the current tourney name "Minimatches"

I don't think that a tourney should die because some people don't like 2 point matches. Their best reaction is to stay away from this tourney and leave it running with the way it runs now.

[lewscannon]

Well, if we were to make them mini-skirt matches, there would be a lot less complaints

[Kari_Grandi]

Adam FYI, they should not not do nothing.

It's a 2pt tourney, some may like it, some may hate it!!
I started it a long ago and lots of players are playing in it in every tourney!!

It's there, live with it. Socksey and gogo are doing a great job with it.
End of discussion, start your own tourneys if you dont like it!!

Kari