Dear Patti

[don]

Hi Patti:

You seem to have a problem when I object to racism on FIBS, particularly when I refer to the most frequent racist on FIBS.  When I chat with you privately to avoid the usual public crap you seem to have problems with a quid pro quo. I mean it would be nice to have a more reasonable avenue of report than "device/null", your version of "go away".

Please tell me publically, Patti, if what you want is for me to ignore racism on FIBS, or that I simply ignore NIHo's flames.  You've said many times over the years that you will handle anything that Bob shouts without help from me, yet he continues in his usual rut.  You sanction what he has to say:  Frequent and continued ID theft quotes from rec.games.backgammon; continuous flames; continuous racism in shouts; etc.  Report complaints to Patti@nowhere or device/null.  Add in his dogpack of vegasvic, tubro and zyxtcba.  If I ignore them I will be ignoring most flames about me.  If they ignore me it will not reduce the flames on FIBS significantly.

While I'm at it, am I allowed to object to racists other than Bob?  Am I permitted to occasionally respond to flames?  I know I'm not supposed to disagree with you, and that's the only problem I have with your running of FIBS.  I've only disagreed with you Patti, but never dissed you.  If disagreement is a problem then I hope you make my current ban a permanent ban, and I hope you have the integrity to mention it here since I won't get it on FIBS.  If not, move on.

I hope you can respond to this without mentioning any rants from me, Patti, unless you can quote them.  (If this is a rant I'm not surprised since I've always tried to make sense with you.  I suspect you don't like to be disagreed with.)  The last time you used the term it was fodder for, guess who ...and his dog pack?  If you think I'm a twit I hope you use more than the word.. try some quotes to prove your point.

I'm not saying you have to do what is impossible for you,  Patti, like nuking racists.  I am saying I don't understand why you have a problem with people who object to racists.  If you want to get rid of racists, liars and cheats you should not bother me.  Your should ask for my help.

I hope you keep running FIBS even better than you do.


--
don

[dorbel]

Let me help. Fibs shouts is a tough forum in that using it reveals more about ourselves than we realise. Our faults and our good points are there for all to see. Human nature being what it is we are blind to our own faults and acutely aware of those of others. This applies to all of us.
Those who like to bully and tease seize on those who react, because it amuses them. There is only one way to deal with this. Complaining to Patti doesn't do it, trying to engage bullies in rational debate doesn't do it either. You have to ignore them don. It really is that simple. You are what you are, Niho is what he is. Neither of you is ever likely to change much. Move on!

[KDP]

Well said, sometimes the simplest solution is the best one.

[stog]

Neither of you is ever likely to change much. Move on!

 

[stog]

this is a T shirt which folks can wear once they have fullfilled their spiral of inner change.

 

[spielberg]

Well said dorbel. don this is not and never will be a perfect world (indeed from a philosophical viewpoint there are exceptional arguments that nirvanas are not only unattainable they're also very, very dull). I welcome the presence of racists in the shouting as yet another chance to laugh at them.

[roadkillbooks]

I must say that I don't tolerate racism.  I think they tarnish all of fibs.  Being on fibs should be a priveledge and those that dont follow our community standards should not be allowed on.  I dont have names and instances but there are racist things said on a regular basis.  Long copy paste shouts from reactionary blogs are also a problem but the only why to stop that is by limiting the character allowed in a shout and only allowing a shout every 10 seconds or so.

roadkillbooks

[spielberg]

I loathe racists and certainly don't tolerate them. Let them shout their garbage - it makes it far easier to attack them.

[garp_02]

If I may just add my little piece

When logging on to Fibs, there is a message which appears to tell me that

' This server is on the net to meet people from all countries.


     All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!


        Rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice.'

Now I don't know if any of the previous replies have been made by anyone actually representing the site, but the views of some of the previous posts certainly seem to contravene the stated rules.

I don't know the individual circumstances regarding don's original post, nor am I interested in the politics or personal greivances frequently displayed both on this forum, and on the rare occasion I enter the 'shout' arena.  But I will say that the shout arena is frequently filled with very rude and racist people. I don't feel it is right that this should be allowed to continue and, may actually be against the general rules for sites such as this.

I would be obliged if action could be taken to define the rules more clearly or enforce the existing rules.

Regards,

Garp

[dorbel]

Well said by all here. On a scale of 1-10, how racist is what we see on fibs? I've seen references to sand niggers, desert monkeys, nigras (sic), cut and paste pieces purporting to show that black people (whatever that may mean) are genetically liable to be criminals, quoted "scientific" research to demonstrate that negroids are of limited intelligence,  and many other examples of what one can only describe as racist language and ideas, but how bad is it actually? Bearing in mind what one can see in many other places online, what one can overhear in any bar, what one can read in the news straight from the mouths of elected politicians, it seems to me to be offensive, but not unbearably so. I'll give it 5/10.
One of the worst things about right wing idealogues is their simplistic approach. There is only one cause of any problem, only one solution  and any other view is wrong. Those who hold other views are morons and nobody must ever change their mind. If we are to start banning people because they hold views that are repugnant to some, perhaps even most of us, we go down the same road. I can bear to hear a bit of racist crap now and again if it means that we keep our free speech. When it gets too much, I shift the perpetrator to the villains list for a bit, which does the trick.
Is there a limit? I expect that there is, but we don't seem to have reached it yet. Ignoring those that offend you, ostracising them and not giving them the satisfaction of a response seems to me more likely to succeed in the long run than ranting on to mummy to get them banned.

[diane]

I've seen references to sand niggers, desert monkeys, nigras (sic), cut and paste pieces purporting to show that black people (whatever that may mean) are genetically liable to be criminals, quoted "scientific" research to demonstrate that negroids are of limited intelligence,  and many other examples of what one can only describe as racist language and ideas

I am so pleased I haven't seen this - because I have the single main perpetrator gagged...

Am I ignoring it rather than facing it?  I don't think so - the only reason this guy carries on, is because it guarantees him an audience, in what would otherwise be a sad and empty existence. Top tip - don't be an audience to his ramblings.

[garp_02]

I respect dorbel's opinion so I'll try to be kind.

Free speech, though undoubtedly welcome, is only a small part of the general concept of freedom.  Freedom from many things, which include, amongst others, freedom from harrassment, persecution, racism etc etc.  To focus on one small part of 'freedom' ie speech, is to diminish the whole concept of freedom for all.

I believe evryone should be free to do whatever they want - so long as it does not prevent anyone else from excersing their freedom.

[socksey]

Freedom is a Fibs command called "gag".  I need say no more, but I will.   

When people are censored in their speech, Fibs becomes a boring backgammon site.  The shout feature in Fibs and it's freedom, is what makes Fibs special and above all the rest.     Long may it reign!   

socksey



The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[NIHILIST]

This entire thread has been very educational in that it beautifully demonstrates political correctness and the individual biases of many of the writers.

Roadkillbooks for instance complains that "  Long copy paste shouts from reactionary blogs are also a problem. "
Does that mean that long copy paste shouts from liberal blogs are acceptable ?

Similarly, Dorbel notes that " One of the worst things about right wing idealogues is their simplistic approach."
Maybe he can tell us what one of the worst things about left wing idealogues is.

Dorbel also would have us believe that " cut and paste pieces purporting to show that black people (whatever that may mean) are genetically liable to be criminals " is, by itself, racist. When Bill Cosby cites statistics and points out that young black men are more likely to go to prison than to college, is he being RACIST ?

Why is there no condemnation of the daily shouted rabid anti-semitism from our good European friends ? Isn't that racism ?

The answer is NO !

The current dictionary definition of RACISM is " a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others."

I have NEVER subscribed to this theory nor have I ever seen ANYONE on FIBS shout that his race is superior to another. I challenge any of the contributors to this thread to produce such a shout.

The truth is we are all of different cultures, history, upbringing and environment. In spirited discussions of politics, religion, world events and society that occur on FIBS daily there are going to be occasional heated exchanges and very different opinions and philosophies voiced.

That's all they are..........DIFFERENCES OF OPINION.

If you think it's too personal or too much in conflict with your own philosophies, use the GAG command. I do.


Bob

[Bones]

I've been at fibs for somewhere around 6 years.  Almost the first thing I learned here was, shouts is a cesspool.  I avoid it like the plague, except on rare and necessary occasions. 

Can or should shouts be censored?  Of course not. 

Should idiots, racists, foul-mouthed jerks, and all those who make shouts a cesspool be held accountable?  Yes, and here's how:

Don't censor -- log!  Create a running, permanent, and searchable log of every single word shouted in shouts.  Every flame, every rant, and every racist epithet would then exist forever, and any interested fibster can look it up. 

Whether or not a complaint system and/or administrator intervention would be necessary, could be decided later.  I've got a pretty strong hunch that the knowledge that your words are being recorded for posterity, for all to see, will have an effect on the tone of the conversation. 

I say, log that sucker! 

[NIHILIST]

I'm pretty certain Patti can do that now.

Bob

[dorbel]

Similarly, Dorbel notes that " One of the worst things about right wing idealogues is their simplistic approach."
Maybe he can tell us what one of the worst things about left wing idealogues is.

Dorbel also would have us believe that " cut and paste pieces purporting to show that black people (whatever that may mean) are genetically liable to be criminals " is, by itself, racist. When Bill Cosby cites statistics and points out that young black men are more likely to go to prison than to college, is he being RACIST ?

Why is there no condemnation of the daily shouted rabid anti-semitism from our good European friends ? Isn't that racism ?

The answer is NO !

A simplistic approach to world problems is usually wrong regardless of political persuasion of course.

Pointing out that "black" men are more likely to go to prison than to university, if true, is one thing. Arguing that this is genetic, as NIHo has done in the past, is something else. The words simplistic and racist spring to mind.

If we heard anti-semitic shouts on fibs, they should of course be condemned, but we don't. The frequent use of the word "jewfuck" by NIHo is an exception to this of course.

I have NEVER subscribed to this theory nor have I ever seen ANYONE on FIBS shout that his race is superior to another

I have never heard anybody on fibs shout " my race is superior to x" either, but one cannot use language of the kind that we hear on fibs from NIHo and others and then say, "Of course this doesn't mean that I am racist". It does mean exactly that. To say things that you know to be offensive to others with the intention of offending them and then labelling them as PC when they object is absurd.

Do racial insults matter? Actually, they do. The labelling of a racial group within one's country or the citizens of another country with epithets that portray them as alien, as "other", is a key first step towards legitimising their ill treatment and eventually death.

Respect for "others" is a key component of civilised behaviour. I respect the rights of NIHo and others to propound views that I find personally repugnant, would defend that right as I tried to do in earlier posts here, but setting out to offend with racist epithets and argument, succeeding in giving offence and then claiming that one is not actually racist is disingenuous beyond belief! Are we seriously supposed to think that non-racist NIHo impersonates Archie Bunker to tease liberals, but is in reality kindly old Uncle Bob who sees all mankind as his brothers? Pull the other one, it's got bells on!

[NIHILIST]

I have NEVER claimed that the likelihood of young blacks going to prison rather than to college is GENETIC and challenge you to produce such a shout.

You never disappoint me, when confronted with your own biases and ignorance you distort the discussion, lying and throwing mud as you go.

I also notice you conveniently ducked my invitation for you tell us what one of the worst things about left wing idealogues is.


Bob

[dorbel]

Like I save your shouts! As I said in my first post, we all reveal ourselves in shouts, good and bad, whether we want to or not, you, me, everybody. You are what you are and we see you clearly.
The worst thing about left wing idealogues is the same as the right wing idealogues, i.e. the tendency to see everything as black or white if you will pardon the expression. Just about everything is more complex than that, including racism.
You may have the last word, I am done for now. I am sure that it will maintain your usual standard of debate!

[NIHILIST]

You don't save my shouts but you recall flawlessly, in great detail what I've said. I'd withdraw too if I were you. Being shown to be a liar once is bad enough, keep at it and you'll only look like a bigger fool than you are.


Bob

[jackdaddy]

Right and Bob has never used the terms nigger or negroid...

[adrian]

  Hmm, obviously two people who posted in this thread saved the fibs shouts on daily basis maybe , rofl, what poor life for years maybe, and dorbel is not one of them.

[don]

As usual, there’s confusion here about the issue.  We have some useful and intelligent responses on this thread as well as some flames and some misdirected comments (mostly due to flames).  In advance I should warn you that this post is what is called a ‘rant’ by a few, and from a ‘sanctimonious twit’.  These are  Patti’s words, consistently quoted by flamers on FIBS and IMO speak for themselves as well as their sources.  Let me try talking about what really happened as well as the issues including racism on FIBS, Patti’s pique, and perhaps dealing with the pros and cons of the posts on this thread.

The proximate cause of my current ban on  FIBS goes more or less like this:

• I made some comment about objecting to racism, not specifically directed at NIHolympic;
• 
  Patti shouted that I should lay off NIHo.
• 
  In the CHAT that ensued I agreed to both ‘lay off’ NIHo for at least a month AND report NIHo’s abuse to Patti.
• 
  Patti objected to any future notification/complaints on this issue from me.
• 
  I objected to Patti’s objection.
• 
  Ban.

Note what was in shouts and what was in chat.

What’s there to say about racism on FIBS?  I think it’s not supposed to be there from day one (1992); There’s some people who get away with it who are very vocal on FIBS; The people who are frequent offenders number less than five; Others are encouraged to go along with them by the toleration of racism on FIBS.

Patti’s problem has several possible explanations:  Perhaps she supports the racists (I hope not); Possibly she doesn’t like being reminded of the opening premise of FIBS since she can’t or won't bother to  enforce it; Maybe she’s friends with some of the racists and is attempting to remove what seem problems by befriending one or more racists on FIBS.  I’m sure there’s more possibilities, but it is difficult for me to believe there is a way to get in trouble on FIBS by objecting to racist shoutsâ€"there is NO reason to object to an opponent of racism on FIBS that I can conceive, but no objection by FIBS or Patti to object to racists that I’ve seen.

Replying to those participants on this thread, in seems dorbel and KDP disagree with my point of view, spielberg roadkillbooks garp02, diane!, socksey! Bones, Adrian, maybe jackdaddy agree.  No surprise from dorbel, who hides behind permagag to flame.  I don’t think I need to comment on NIHIHLIST.

So we have a server where free speech is allowed as long as you don't object to racism or Patti's friends.  

Enjoy!

==
don

[NIHILIST]

As usual, well-reasoned, articulate and factual. Don't let the door hit you in your ass and enjoy your roadtrip.


Bob

[dorbel]

Replying to those participants on this thread, in seems dorbel and KDP disagree with my point of view, spielberg roadkillbooks garp02, diane!, socksey! Bones, Adrian, maybe jackdaddy agree.

Erm actually no don, spielberg, diane and socksey agree with me as you will see if you read their posts, while adrian and jackdaddy say nothing to support you. Gag those you find objectionable and move on. Your narcolepsy inducing posts are even more tedious than those of the racists, although I am sure that you mean well!

[Patti]

Dear Don:

A. If you want to discuss the issue with me, posting about it publicly is not the way to accomplish this-- you would be just as well served shouting into the wind.  I wouldn't have even seen the discussion here if someone hadn't pointed it out to me.

B. You got banned because you asked me to ban you.  Don't leave that part out.

C. I do not censor FIBS chat (with a very few exceptions, largely having to do with personal attacks and threats) because the act of censorship is far more distasteful to me than the speech that I might censor.  I have explained this to you countless times, but you have failed to absorb the message.

D.  People who shout racist comments serve only to make themselves look pathetic.

I will not continue this discussion publicly, nor will I continue to read this thread.

[KDP]

OR....... lets simply have the message of the day changed to say:  Welcome to FIBS! All sorts of racists, a-holes and retards are welcome.

Then it would seem you would have no grounds to objecting to certain shouts.  You would then be forced to a. gag those you find offensive b. find another place to play.  Ooops  thats what we've been telling you all along.  My bad.

[jackdaddy]

Bob, do you think Bill Cosby would construe your racial epithets as racist? Or would he think you're only trying to open up an intelligent dialogue about race relations in the United States as others have suggested.

Maybe you could clear something up here.
About a year ago you were invited to a match by a German player. Your response was that you despise Germans in general, and Inim in particular and that this person should refrain from inviting you in the future. Now, some might claim that you were only trying to be a provocateur. If this had been posted in shouts there is a slim possibility I could believe that. It was sent as a tell. Now, maybe it's my naivete, or just the simple fact that I don't like you that's clouding my judgement, but please enlighten me. How can this be interpreted as anything but racist?

Oh, and Don? I support freedom of speech 100%.

[socksey]

I knew with don's first post here that this would become a flame throwing contest, and under the past fibsboard server "king", I would have closed it immediately.     However, I await the present server king to do this himself, as I seem to be more rant sensitive than he.     Or, maybe he just finds it has entertainment value.

socksey



If We Don't Take Care of the Customer, Maybe They'll Stop Bugging Us. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[boomslang]

Why is there no condemnation of the daily shouted rabid anti-semitism from our good European friends ? Isn't that racism ?

... and I challenge you to produce at least one of such shouts in, say, the next 24 hours. Start logging, Bob.

[manxcat]

"Do racial insults matter? Actually, they do. The labelling of a racial group within one's country or the citizens of another country with epithets that portray them as alien, as "other", is a key first step towards legitimising their ill treatment and eventually death." -dorbel

Indeed, as I have said frequently, albeit with other words.  It also creates a self loathing view on those who are the victims of such.  Genocide of the Mind has some good essays regarding this.

[socksey]

Well said, dorbel, and thank you kitty for reiterating it.     I think you are right.     I have felt the bite of reverse racsism, and I have felt the bite of bigotry.     It's not a happy nor is it a positive feeling for sure.  Let's try to forget old hurts and move on. 

socksey



The best leaders inspire by example. When that's not an option, brute intimidation works pretty well, too. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[Johnny_Boy]

Don.... (will) correct me if I am wrong but A racist is the one who ultimately believes that black isn't beautiful, Hitler was vilified(he never gassed all those people),white is right etc... I personally haven't found anyone of that nature on fibs or if they were here they were only here briefly because they couldn't take the level of knowledge thrown around on this site and eventually left. I can think of a few but I won't get into naming them. What I see is the epithets thrown out speak more to ones upbringing and station in society rather than true racism. Don you should be ashamed that you react at all and act so self righteous. I would pity the few that can't keep a civil tongue, but then like I was advised when I first came on the scene......
I would have to lower my standards to survive shouts.
We are a disparate group but we are a cohesive unit. If anyone ever put down backgammon then I would certainly be asking Patti to correct their behavior. other than that most of us are adults and should know how to sink or swim.
The real issue is that you have put yourself in a position to be baited constantly and they are always going for the jugular.
So how do you get out of that position? That's up to you.

[diane]

I knew with don's first post here that this would become a flame throwing contest

My initial inclination was to ding it - same old same old.....but so far, it isn't so bad - and it seems we need to do this once a year or so, so all the new people can say all the old things and don has something to do whilst he is banned. [oh and a thread this long on one of his subjects must be making him feel more of a man than he has in a long time]

I also liked the stog posts much earlier in this thread - which were actually about the original post, not this tangential discussion about who is or isn't and what is or isn't racist....

[adrian]

  I am afraid of muslims. I really am. I try to never meet them, to speak to them, to get near them. I am racist? I feel like yes. But that fear is close to the fear I feel when I accidentally stumble upon a spider web in my yard , with my face and the spider was in the middle of that web and slowly crawls down near my nose. That is why I will never ever spend my holydays in a country where women must cover their face and I am not allowed to laugh or criticize religion.
Oh yes, I accidentally met a few normal guys who accidentally embrace that stupid religion. That didn't change my feeling about the majority of their kind, it only proved that some of them are unhappy living in the mud and I am right .
I am racist about this issue, shoot me 

Other people have other fears. Each of us have at least one big fear and some, exhibit it online, covering it in foulmouth shouts or futile wars against racism. It is entertaining up to a point. After that is dull.

[Zorba]

I've met a few catholics that actually were okay but just accidentally embraced this religion that killed more innocents than any other ideology in the world.

[NIHILIST]

The Inquisition especially targeted bald, Durch heretics.

We're all thrilled you survived.


Bob

[Zorba]

but nobody as much as you!

[boog]

Freedom is a Fibs command called "gag".  I need say no more, but I will.   

When people are censored in their speech, Fibs becomes a boring backgammon site.  The shout feature in Fibs and it's freedom, is what makes Fibs special and above all the rest.     Long may it reign!   

socksey



The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly. - Lithograph from Despair.com

Here, here! Couldn't have said it better myself, but will try. No. Will save it for later. Oh, by the way, Patti, you cloven-hoofed-crimson-oxen (bet she reads this), I got around your perm gag. Yea! See ya there, big red.

[inim]

How about giving Don and Niho their own private thread, readable only for their accounts? In other words: get a room, you too, preferably the "Pot and Kettle Hall".

[Johnny_Boy]

boog might want to fit in there too

[PersianLord]

I was among the proponents of the idea of organizing a "Law enforcement force" for FIBS to prevent these kinds of debates. But we can ask for such a feature only when we have joined a server with a paid membership system. FIBS is free for all of people all over the world to join and enjoy. Nobody has pleaded you to join FIBS and it is run by Patti's money & devotion. So we have two solutions: i) adapting ourselves to the environment ii) leaving FIBS. I have chosen the 1st choice and now have 8 fibsters gagged. I also ignore inim's inimical behavior most of the times, for I am a peaceful gentleman =)

About Bob, I really don't think he is racist. If he was racist, I should have been his constant target, considering the fact that I'm among the few none European-descended fibsroids. I'm not a veteran and don't know what's really behind the ancient enmity between NIHI and don. But I think that it's a personal issue and should be solved on a personal basis, i.e. not engaging the rest of FIBS nation.

Regards

[Bones]

I repeat:

Log the Shouts.  Keep a record, make it public.  Doing so will NOT stop a**holes from being a**holes -- this thread is proof enough of that.  However, it might change the tone somewhat, and it sure won't hurt anything.  

Oh, and I vote for letting a**holes be a**holes.  All options to censor/ban/whatever suck.  Gag works fine, that's why I use it.  Shouts will no doubt remain a cesspool.  

Peace out, dawgz.  Yeah, right.  


p.s.  How did this thread get so many posts, without anyone being called a Nazi?  All internet arguments wind up with someone being called a Nazi.  Get with the program, people!  

[stog]

anyone got anything to add before i lock this topic? .............

[webrunner]

Yes.....

Why in earth lock this topic?
Finally we got this discussion going and more important... Niho is actually participating without any foul words ......

[stog]

please see new thread at http://www.fibsboard.com/general-chit-chat/should-there-be-a-log-of-shouts-t2664.0.html;msg19906;topicseen#new

ps - have unlocked this topic for further constructive comment but i remind all

"We trust all will appreciate the opportunity to post their views in a considered and polite format"

below is a warning taken from the actual FIBS FAQ

"One word of warning, though: at times some of the discussions carried on FIBS via shouts (i.e. readable by everyone) is, well, kind of "low level" and not for the faint hearted. If this disturbs you, you can use commands to gag and/or blind the offending people. "

Fibsboard however is different, apart from the option of not viewing, it is open to the public, with no option to blind/gag -- except by the admin..

we repeat

"this is a reminder for all of us to keep to topic and put across our views without getting petty and personal. we will not, and cannot allow tirades of abuse, as may sometimes occur in FIBs shouts here on Fibsboard - this being an open public forum albeit membered by adults. (we have introduced a yellow and red card system here - as is used in football, where a yellow card is a booking - a warning -the post removed, if you get another, you get a red and you are sent off - which in a 'boarders case would mean their ability to post would be withdrawn for a period of time.

obviously we reserve the right to totally ban too."

      ..................................................................................................otherwise enjoy yourselves

i believe Don wanted to say something..............

[webrunner]

So happy i can keep responding here. 

This, i think, is in contradiction with the agreement we made when you took over Fibsboard.
We agreed that the rules would not be changed dramatically because it would mean that Fibsboard would change too much and in my opinion this is a big change.

In my opiniopn a discussion can become fearce and sometimes even personal as long as we keep communicating as adults, don't use any faul words and pay eachother respect. That was the rule i moderated by, or at least i tried. (and still do on other forums).

[diane]

This, i think, is in contradiction with the agreement we made when you took over Fibsboard.
We agreed that the rules would not be changed dramatically because it would mean that Fibsboard would change too much and in my opinion this is a big change.

In my opiniopn a discussion can become fearce and sometimes even personal as long as we keep communicating as adults, don't use any faul words and pay eachother respect. That was the rule i moderated by, or at least i tried. (and still do on other forums).

It is confusing that you think this so strongly...and yet your most active moderator thinks entirely the opposite.

http://www.fibsboard.com/fibs-general-support/dear-patti-t2649.0.html;msg19784#msg19784

Am I misunderstanding something? Or were the topics closed down faster than you could spot they were being opened  

[stog]

webrunner
i am very keen for discussions to take place  -- i only locked the topic as it had already split off topic, and i feared it might get  too personal, especially as it had mostly run its course - i did leave it open for folks to contact me if they wished to comment further. i spoke to don and he said he wanted to say something more, so was about to unlock it anyway.

Now have you anything pertinent  to add to this particular thread?

if you wish a stick to beat me with - which is it to be? -- too liberal or too censorious? (last time it was the former if i remember)
no rules have been changed, but we established a football card system some months ago which we have not had to use.

the moderators and myself have always had the capability to lock a topic if it was becoming too personal; although i have before now asked that they "allow" rather than censor where possible, but keep an eye on things....lest they got too personal and vindictive.

now the only continuation to this thread, is this 'public chat' you seem to want......

[socksey]

I knew with don's first post here that this would become a flame throwing contest, and under the past fibsboard server "king", I would have closed it immediately.    socksey

Leave it to diane to make me eat my words!  Perhaps I did speak too quickly there.     Or not.     In reality, I would have conferred with webrunner unless I had been given a direct complaint by the offended fibster, which happened to me quite a lot previously, btw.  Even then, I saved the deleted offence, so that if webbie disagreed with me when I did message him, I could replace the post.   

Since stog has been administrator here, there has not been so much flagrant ranting with personal attack.  The moderating has been very easy.......almost non-existent.  Maybe that means our previous moderating was successful, or maybe it just means we are in a lull.  Whatever.   

Maybe webrunner has mellowed.  Maybe webrunner has the right to change his mind like others of us do.  Maybe I had the wrong idea.  Does anyone care?   

I've always done the best I can with what I have available to me.  I can do no more than that. 

socksey



Just because you're necessary doesn't mean you're important. - Lithograph from Despair.com

[diane]

Leave it to diane to make me eat my words! 

I would hope no one has to, all it seems is that maybe there are misunderstandings, rather than the somewhat more serious suggestions that stog was

in contradiction with the agreement we made when you took over Fibsboard.

If you and webrunner hadn't fully understood each other and still checked in, after a lengthy time together on the board, it seems understandable that stog might have misunderstood something too...

Although maybe he didn't, as he didn't shut down the thread when it started, only when it digressed...

Thing is, it seems petty to be accusational here, better to seek and obtain clarity, then move forward...it looks like webrunner and stog are pretty much in the same place to me...

[webrunner]

I agree Diane, we are in the same place.
It was in no way my intention to beat Stog with a stick (or anyone for that matter).

In the past certain members didn't post on FB and if they did, the words where often to faul so we (socksey and me) decided to remove them (as she stated also). I know for a fact that a few of these members behaved like this because of personal differences with me.
Since i left, the members are now suddenly posting, and keeping it relitavely clean.

The only thing i wanted to point out is that an opportunity like that should be taken and a closing of a topic or removing of posts could damage this fragile loot of contribution of these members, which in their turn are important members for the FIBS community.
I have always tried to get a normal and adult discussion going with in particular these members, just look at the topics. Even though i do not personally like these persons or argree with their "way of communicating". (am i making any sense?)

And yes: my moderation skills have evolved/changed in the last couple of years, mainly because of another big community i manage.
I now find it especially impoirtant that moderators and admins are open about their actions and show why they did what they did (i edited this post because..., i deleted this topic because... , i closed this topic because...)
This will prevent a lot of frustration and discussion and provides clarity.

Sorry for going off-topic here.