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Posting computer results - formatting

Started by Zorba, April 27, 2009, 01:27:46 PM

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Zorba

April 27, 2009, 01:27:46 PM
When posting bot results, you usually want a fixed-width font to make sure the numbers align etc.
I see three different tags to do this. How it appears on screen is probably OS- and browser-dependent; also, users can change their default font settings. So, it's not clear what works best in general.

Here's a test using the three methods. Perhaps people could reply how these look on their screen and which one works best for them?

For me, 1 and 2 look the same, with a standard typewriter font. 3 has a white background with blue text, but the font is smaller and just barely readable. So, I prefer 1 or 2 myself. How about others?

1. PRE tag (preformatted text):

    GNU Backgammon  Position ID: 7bYDBgD3zQIMAA
                    Match ID   : MAFgAUAASAAA
    +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+  O: Kit Woolsey
    | O  O  O     O  O |   |                X |  4 points
    | O  O  O     O    |   |                X |  On roll
    | O  O             |   |                  |  
    |    O             |   |                  |  
    |    O             |   |                  |  
    |                  |BAR|                  |^ 11 point match (Cube: 1)
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |       X        X |   |                  |  
    |    X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    |  
    | X  X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    |  9 points
    +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+  X: GOL Readers

Cube analysis
4-ply cubeless equity  +0,3239 (Money:  +0,3312)
   67,03   0,13   0,00 -  32,97   1,07   0,01
Cubeful equities:
1. No double            +0,5140
2. Double, pass         +1,0000  ( +0,4860)
3. Double, take         +0,4940  ( -0,0201)
Proper cube action: No double, take (4,0%)


2. TT tag (teletype):

    GNU Backgammon  Position ID: 7bYDBgD3zQIMAA
                    Match ID   : MAFgAUAASAAA
    +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+  O: Kit Woolsey
    | O  O  O     O  O |   |                X |  4 points
    | O  O  O     O    |   |                X |  On roll
    | O  O             |   |                  | 
    |    O             |   |                  | 
    |    O             |   |                  | 
    |                  |BAR|                  |^ 11 point match (Cube: 1)
    |                  |   |                  | 
    |                  |   |                  | 
    |       X        X |   |                  | 
    |    X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    | 
    | X  X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    |  9 points
    +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+  X: GOL Readers

Cube analysis
4-ply cubeless equity  +0,3239 (Money:  +0,3312)
   67,03   0,13   0,00 -  32,97   1,07   0,01
Cubeful equities:
1. No double            +0,5140
2. Double, pass         +1,0000  ( +0,4860)
3. Double, take         +0,4940  ( -0,0201)
Proper cube action: No double, take (4,0%)

3. CODE tag:

Code Select
    GNU Backgammon  Position ID: 7bYDBgD3zQIMAA
                    Match ID   : MAFgAUAASAAA
    +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+  O: Kit Woolsey
    | O  O  O     O  O |   |                X |  4 points
    | O  O  O     O    |   |                X |  On roll
    | O  O             |   |                  | 
    |    O             |   |                  | 
    |    O             |   |                  | 
    |                  |BAR|                  |^ 11 point match (Cube: 1)
    |                  |   |                  | 
    |                  |   |                  | 
    |       X        X |   |                  | 
    |    X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    | 
    | X  X  X  X  X  X |   |             O    |  9 points
    +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+  X: GOL Readers

Cube analysis
4-ply cubeless equity  +0,3239 (Money:  +0,3312)
   67,03   0,13   0,00 -  32,97   1,07   0,01
Cubeful equities:
1. No double            +0,5140
2. Double, pass         +1,0000  ( +0,4860)
3. Double, take         +0,4940  ( -0,0201)
Proper cube action: No double, take (4,0%)

The fascist's feelings of insecurity run so deep that he desperately needs a classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the fascist's embracement of concepts like mental illness and IQ tests.  - R.J.V.

Luck is my main skill

diane

#1
April 27, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
I am at work, so using IE - on this browser 3 is a clear favourite.  It has the largest, most well defined font - so I am not sure why it appears as the smallest on your set up  :wacko: The different background also makes it stand out more and it is much easier on the eye, so from this perspective, I would say - emphatically - 3.

I will let you know how it looks at home.
Never give up on the things that make you smile

playBunny

#2
April 27, 2009, 02:13:06 PM
I also use IE and the [pre] and [tt] versions are both unreadable, which is to say that I can make out the words (eg. the fuzzy bit that looks like "Kit Woolsey" probably is "Kit Woolsey") but the numbers are a struggle. The 0.4860 could be 0.4068 or any other combination of 0, 6, 8.

The [code] version is fine.

playBunny

#3
April 27, 2009, 02:23:42 PM
Normal

This is normal tt - it looks tiny to me.
This is normal pre - it looks tiny to me.

Code Select
This is normal code - it looks small but readable to me.

Size=10pt
This is tt wrapped inside [size=10pt] - it looks okay to me.
This is pre wrapped inside [size=10pt] - it looks okay to me.

Code Select
This is code wrapped inside [size=10pt] - and there's no change in the size and the [/size] is left hanging around.[/size]

Size=12pt
This is tt wrapped in [size=12pt] - it looks good to me.
This is pre wrapped in [size=12pt] - it looks good to me.

Code Select
This is code preceded [size=12pt] - no [/size] but and still no change in size.

ah_clem

#4
April 27, 2009, 04:57:22 PM Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 05:06:23 PM by ah_clem
Quote from: Zorba on April 27, 2009, 01:27:46 PM
Here's a test using the three methods. Perhaps people could reply how these look on their screen and which one works best for them?

A quick check of browsers easily at hand, all using Windows XP:


  • Firefox 2 (my primary browser) :  All three are  readable. I prefer "tt" and "pre" which are identical. The "code" tag puts a border around it and makes the font smaller  and light blue, which is less preferable and less readable than the other two.

  • Safari 3.2 : Same as  Firefox.

  • Netscape 7.2 : Same as Firefox.

  • Netscape 4.8 : Astounded that this works at all.  "tt" and "pre" do not use fixed-width font, so it doesn't line up.  "code" looks fine.

  • IE 6: "tt" and "pre" are  too small.  "code" is readable, but poor for the same reasons as the other browsers. 

Bottom line:  "tt" and "pre" are best on the modern non-mickeysoft browsers.  "code" is equally poor on all the browsers. 

Probably the best option would be to add a formatting button similar to the "spoiler" button, then define a style in the style sheet - my hunch is that you'd only need to add a font size to the "pre" tag so that it displays reasonably in IE.  Of course, this is more work....

(edit) On second thought, you could probably just have the button fling two tags and not mess with the stylesheet.

In the meantime, based on what I've seen in this thread I'm going to post fixed width things with the pre tag, and embed it in a  font tag for the IE users.

stog

#5
April 27, 2009, 05:49:47 PM
code blocks are fine on our macs here, both safari and firefox as is all of the uppermost zorba post here -- i suggest that rather than me re-inventing the wheel at my end, the few who are having problems check out their graphics and screens, or at the very least hop into your local store or visit a friend, and navigate here to see what it looks like.........

playBunny

#6
April 27, 2009, 05:55:30 PM
Lol. There's no question of changing the hardware here!! Fibsboard doesn't need any changes either. Using a font size wrapper with 10pt or 12pt is an easy solution.

stog

#7
April 27, 2009, 06:01:35 PM Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 06:29:07 PM by stog
have a peek at the screenshot above.(100%).if it is still fuzzy there might seem to be an optician's appt necessary (or a reduction of tequila intake  ;)

ah_clem

#8
April 27, 2009, 07:13:37 PM
Here's an example of the pre tag wrapped with a font size=10 tag.  How's it look?



    GNU Backgammon  Position ID: G7sbABBst0EZAA
                    Match ID   : cIkZAAAAAAAA
       Money play with Jacoby rule
    +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+  O: gnubg
    | O  O        O  O |   | O  O     X     X |  0 points
    | O  O        O  O |   | O  O     X       |  
    |                O |   | O                |  
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |                  |BAR|                  |v (Cube: 1)
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |                  |   |                  |  
    |             X    |   |                  |  
    |       X  X  X  X |   | X                |  Rolled 36
    |    O  X  X  X  X |   | X              X |  0 points
    +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+  X: You

diane

#9
April 27, 2009, 08:20:26 PM
At home on firefox now - the 'code' version is smaller than it appeared on IE, but still the most readable.
Never give up on the things that make you smile

Zorba

#10
April 27, 2009, 10:54:14 PM
Using a FONT SIZE tag and then either the PRE or TT tag looks like the best solution.

Font size 10 looks fine on my monitor, but I think 11 or 12 may be a bit better. With the minimum resolution of today probably at 1024x768, there should still be enough characters on the screen with size 11 for most purposes, and maybe also size 12, if lines are not too long. Especially for someone with f.i. a 24" monitor at 1920x1200, a 10pt font is quite small. Maybe 11pt is a good compromise, although the font rendering is not ideal at that size.

What's the FIBSboarder's preference?  :)

TT font size 10:

    1. Rollout          8/2 5/3                      Eq.:  +0,3180
        60,41   7,73   0,56 -  39,59   0,67   0,01 CL  +0,2711 CF  +0,3180
      [  0,07   0,15   0,08 -   0,07   0,02   0,01 CL   0,0020 CF   0,0040]
        Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
        3888 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 819867065 and quasi-random dice
        Play: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
        Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]

TT font size 11:

    2. Rollout          8/2 6/4                      Eq.:  +0,3143 ( -0,0037)
        60,47   7,75   0,55 -  39,53   0,71   0,00 CL  +0,2728 CF  +0,3143
      [  0,07   0,16   0,08 -   0,07   0,02   0,00 CL   0,0022 CF   0,0041]
        Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
        3888 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 819867065 and quasi-random dice
        Play: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
        Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]


Tt font size 12:

    3. Rollout          6/2 5/1                      Eq.:  +0,2800 ( -0,0380)
        60,76   5,98   0,38 -  39,24   1,01   0,01 CL  +0,2851 CF  +0,2800
      [  0,07   0,10   0,06 -   0,07   0,03   0,00 CL   0,0021 CF   0,0041]
        Full cubeful rollout with var.redn.
        3888 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 819867065 and quasi-random dice
        Play: 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
        Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
The fascist's feelings of insecurity run so deep that he desperately needs a classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the fascist's embracement of concepts like mental illness and IQ tests.  - R.J.V.

Luck is my main skill

ah_clem

#11
April 27, 2009, 11:14:46 PM

Using a FONT SIZE tag and then either the PRE or TT tag looks like the best solution.


As the examples below show, tt wraps the text.  pre (and code) does not.  I'd say go with tt.

pre-tag: 3888 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 819867065 and quasi-random dice and this is a really really long line that may or may not wrap properly and possibly screw up the formatting of the entire page.


tt-tag: 3888 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 819867065 and quasi-random dice and this is a really really long line that may or may not wrap properly and possibly screw up the formatting of the entire page.



What's the FIBSboarder's preference?
mine would be tt with size 10.

playBunny

#12
April 28, 2009, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: Zorba on April 27, 2009, 10:54:14 PM
Font size 10 looks fine on my monitor, but I think 11 or 12 may be a bit better. With the minimum resolution of today probably at 1024x768, there should still be enough characters on the screen with size 11 for most purposes, and maybe also size 12, if lines are not too long. Especially for someone with f.i. a 24" monitor at 1920x1200, a 10pt font is quite small. Maybe 11pt is a good compromise, although the font rendering is not ideal at that size.

I have a 21" at 1600x1200 but the font size is at 104% (100 dpi) else everything would be too small. There's also a 17" at 1280x1024. The 10pt is good on both monitors and the 11pt very decent (without any quality issue). I used 10pt when I reposted the rollout that I previously posted using [code].
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