Canadian holocaust

[webrunner]

Although it has nothing to do with fibs, i couldn't help myself and post soething about the awful images they just showed me on tv.
It seems that there has been a slaughter of 260.000 seals in just two days.
They where all clubbed to death, and the sole purpose is money. :angry:

Am i just crazy or are there more people that get outraged when they hear stuff like this. I mean... 260.000 in two days.  
The nazi's didn't even reach those kind of numbers.. not by far! :angry:

I always thought of Canada as a modern and friendly country but boy has my opinion changed.

I wil not go to canada and support this kind of industry and i think they will lose a lot if tourist income on this.

Don't get me wrong... of course i don't hate all canadians, the people i met on fibs where all very nice.
But this is so far from what i can comprehend... how can you batter innocent animals to death..
not one.. but dozens..
i couldn't do it.. even if they payed me bundles.
but hey.. maybe it's me and am i just a big softy........

If someone has a different opinion.. i would really like to know what it is.. maybe you can help me understand this insane behaviour.

[PortWine]

I think the title "Canadian Holocaust" will get a few people to look in on this thread.  You missed your calling as a newspaper editor Webrunner, you sure do know how to make a headline that gets attention!

I really enjoy the "puke" icon.  That has got to be the best one I have seen in a long time.

Now for the point/counterpoint (only because I love a good debate):

I had a conversation with someone recently where they said hunting was terrible.  My opinion was that hunting for rare animals only to get a tusk or skin was wrong.  But if you want to take out a deer or turkey and eat it, I have no problem with it.  This person said that was horrible and I pointed out that he may want to remove the hamburger from his mouth before saying that again.  If you are a vegetarian, I think you have a moral base for holding these views, but if you eat any type of animal and you are not in favor of hunting it, all that means is that you get other people to do your dirty work.  And before anyone complains please keep in mind that there are more than twice as many deer in North America now than there were 200 years ago.

Also, do you wear leather, sweade (how do you spell that?), etc?  

Is there a problem because little baby seals are cute?

All that being said, 250,000 in one or two days is clearly excessive.  Sounds like someone needs to send in a UN peace keeping force.

[JonJon]

Suede....its spelled s-u-e-d-e

JJ

[webrunner]

First of all.. these animals ere being killed for fur, nothing more, nothing less.
I have yet to come across any menu that has seal meat on it.

I like a good steak every now and then but on average i eat very lettle meat, maybe only once a week. Mostly i eat fish, which also isn't right since they are "grown" in big tanks and all that.. but hey.. a man has got to eat and i am not against killing for food.
It's the way that they are being killed that bothers me..
Clubbing these animals to death is just horrible in my opinion.
I wonder what kind of person you have got to be to be able to do that....

BTW: thanks for the compliments

[PortWine]

JonJon, I have been using spell check for the past 10 years or more.  I can not spell for $hit!

And I agree Web, clubbing for fur is a $hitty thing to do.  But I do love my NY Strip steak!  

[JonJon]

The problem is that seals are cute. They have those pouty eyes. If they were ugly, like a scary insect or a vulture or something, no one would care.

I think that some cultures do eat seal. I would be curious to know what it tastes like, but wouldn't do it. Those pouty eyes would haunt me.

Is it possible that there were just too many seals and some had to be harvested? I mean...260,ooo seals....thats an ass-load of seals.

Does anyone have a link to a news report?

JJ

[webrunner]

look here and here on CNN

[JonJon]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/2...a-sealhunt.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/...000/3621249.stm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...National/Canada

There's a few links.

The only good argument for this seal hunt is that they are wreaking havoc on the fishing industry. That it will generate economy is less of a good reason...

Oh well. I won't buying any seal skin coats/shoes/anything anytime soon.

JJ

[diane]

I am no vegetarian, and wear leather etc. I believe i have a right to do so.  I also believe that that right brings with it a resposibility to show respect to the animal that dies so i may eat and dress warm.  I have seen the argument for the fish depletion, and see little merit in it.  The big deal here is that these animals are being killed in vast quantities at the lowest possible price - ie clubbing them to death, rather than shooting or other more humane methods.  This stinks to me of the clothing industry - not protecting human food resources - and as such is worse - since even those of us who dont buy fur/animal skin are vaguely aware - it aint cheap!

And i keep racking my brains for a good example - but cant find one where brutally killing animals en mass woudnt bother me - as the 'higher species' - even if they werent cute.  You get into also sorts of icky problems messing with ecology on this scale.  From anti biotics - which serve to create new and more resistant bacteria (same goes for fleas), to maggots which are vile - but serve a very useful purpose!!  One of the classic cases quoted was some bird that was wiped out to protect a crop, turned out the birds were eating the bugs on the crop - and they lost it completely next year!
Anyway - just my thoughts on the arrogance of humans - and dont whatever you do - wander me into GMO!!

[KDP]

while i agree that the slaughter of seals in and of itself is disturbing, and we can debate endlessly as to whether or not its even necessary, (i really dont want to get into the fur debate) i must take exception to the term holocaust.  can u look  me in the eye and really equate the deaths of 260,000 seals with that of 6 million jews?

[webrunner]

KDP i get your point and of course i don't equate that.

However, the point i was making that the Nazi's never made it to these numbers in such short times. So is this where to go on like this they will eventually kill millions of seals.
And that 6 million people (no matter what race) and 6 million seals in my opinion do equate. Not to mention the ecological disaster these kind of actions can cause as Diane stated.

[webrunner]

Anyone who is against this senseless killing sign a petition here please.

[alef]

I'm against the unnecessary slaughter of seals, but would like to challenge a few of the points of argument.

...However, the point i was making that the Nazi's never made it to these numbers in such short times...

Luckily that's because they couldn't manage it. What if the Nazis had had a faster system?

...And that 6 million people (no matter what race) and 6 million seals in my opinion do equate...

Do 6m seals = 6m ants? Or 6m microscoptic simple organisms? Obviously we have a natural bias towards mammals. But what about rats? It's not straightforward at all.

[diane]

In answer to your question - Do 6m seals = 6m ants? Or 6m microscoptic simple organisms?

Perhaps it might make more sense if that were considered as a percentage of total population.  And - as i said - i am not for the slaughter of any species en mass - because we simply do not know enough about it.

I would also move away from comparing the killing of animals away from the killing of humans - but would also point you to the areas of research which clearly demonstrate that an insenstivity towards weaker species - ie most animals - also goes hand in hand with an ability to be violent towards other humans.  It has been noted frequently that most serial killers start out with torturing animals.

[alef]

Ã, 
In answer to your question - Do 6m seals = 6m ants? Or 6m microscoptic simple organisms?

Perhaps it might make more sense if that were considered as a percentage of total population.Ã,  And - as i said - i am not for the slaughter of any species en mass - because we simply do not know enough about it.

Good points.

Ã, 
I would also move away from comparing the killing of animals away from the killing of humans - but would also point you to the areas of research which clearly demonstrate that an insenstivity towards weaker species - ie most animals - also goes hand in hand with an ability to be violent towards other humans.

That would be interesting to read, will have a Google for it. Do you have any recommended links?

Ã, 
It has been noted frequently that most serial killers start out with torturing animals.

Be careful, this is a dangerous but unfortunately common mistake of logic. "Those doing B have previously done A" does not imply that "doing A leads to doing B". A common example of this flawed argument is that most heroin users have smoked cannabis thus cannabis smoking leads to heroin usage. Or another I've heard is that most rapists have read pornography thus reading pornography leads to violent sexual crimes. Or children who are violent have watched lots of television....

While there can of course be elements of truth in these (they don't seem likely to me, but who knows really?) the point is that they aren't logically valid statements in and of themselves.

[diane]

i know - i know - i have a tendency to over simplfy for storage purposes! But there is a point in there somewhere!

[purol]

These guys put the phrase "let's go clubbing" in a completely different context.

[PortWine]

In the locker room the phrase "it was like clubbing a baby seal" kind of bespeaks any incredibly one sided contest where you should probably feel really bad about winning.

But, coming from a family where 3 out of 7 people are vegetarians (not me!) they view the millions of fish caught each day to be devastating as well.

Do we feel this way about the seals because they are cute?  People have strong feelings about dogs, cats, horses, deer, etc., and other "socially acceptable" animals, but no one cries to much (except from the smell) when they pass a dead skunk on the road!

Lastly, and keeping in mind that I live in a rural area of NY where I have wildlife going across my property everyday, there is something to be said about responsible hunting.  There are twice as many deer in the USA than there were 200 years ago.  If you kill a deer and eat it than it is the same as going to McDonald's and buying a hamburger.  You have to wonder if mad cow and chronic wasting disease are a pay back to man for not respecting the system!

I do, though have a fundamental problem with killing cute things, just like any human is programmed!  Save the harp seals!

[hypnosa]

Well, i can say for myself that this really, really, really makes me sad  
I do not eat meat because of the way they treat the animals. In my opinion
people are not better than animals just because we have a conscious (?)

I cannot or will not understand people who make decisions like these or do
these kind of things.  :angry:
Canada is (or maybe was!) my favorite country but I am not going there now.
No way!

[PortWine]

I feel sorry for the cows that God made them taste so good with fried onions and a side of hash browned potatoes.