New Players get barred by MIss Manners

[yocha]

I and my wife have started playing here about 4 days ago. We are fairly good players but never played on-line before. We both are getting very frustrated with the droppers policy you have here. We have not dropped a single game but we have already accumulated 8 drops on my account and 13 drops on my wife's. None of these drops have been initiated by us.  Now MissManners has banned my wife from initiating new games and I got warned about being banned soon. Most of these droppers have dropped just before we were going to win the game.  In doing so, they also screw up our rating. One of these droppers even used obscenity on my wife when she doubled on him. Two of the droppers invited me to play and when I accepted they rolled once and logged out leaving me with saved games. Since then we are spending all our time to looking for these droppers so we can finish the games and get the list adjusted but we have not been successful
There must be a way to reset the dropping list for these not-guilty players. Don't get us penalized for other people rudeness and malicious behavior. We enjoy the game but we can not play correctly and concentrate on the game in these atmosphere.  By the way, is there a way to automatically set all the droppers to auto invite so we don't have to keep looking for them?

Of course we make a new user name and start over and keep changing it weekly.  In doing so we defeat the purpose of keeping a record and getting a rating.  Is not it what all these droppers do? We want do avoid doing that but if we want to continue playing we may have no choice.  

Please help. Change the software to stop penalizing the innocents for the fault of few bad players. We rather see you disbarring no one until you fix the software.

[diane]

Please read this post...

http://www.fibsboard.com/droppers/is-fibs-down-or-have-i-lost-playing-privilege/msg24541/#msg24541

The only thing you can do is use the tools to avoid the droppers and finish some of the dropped matches or wait for them to expire.

The policy you are falling foul of is a reasonable step to help rid fibs of excessive droppers and hopefully will not be removed.

[ah_clem]

Sorry that you are having trouble with droppers. Unfortunately, there is no way for FIBS to know which player dropped, so you wind up with a saved game when someone drops you.  Accumulate enough saved games and you are barred from issuing invitations.  That's just how it is.

What you can do about it is to avoid playing droppers.  How do you know? 

1) Ask repbot before invitation or accepting an invitation.  Dont' play users with a bad repbot rating

2) Look at their saved count (show savedcount playername) and don't play anyone with more than a few saved games

3) Look at the client software - avoid playing phone users (OdesysMobile) 

4) Look at experience points - more experience usually implies less propensity to drop (but not always.

Most players finish their matches and don't shout profanities when cubed.  Use the simple steps above to avoid those who do.

[spielberg]

I've some other, less valuable, tips to add to ah_clems'.

repbot works better with more people using it. Ask for a vouch when you've lost and often you'll get one given that you've selected a Fibster with a positive rep and low saved count (yes we even have dropper scum with faked reputations unfortunately). You should reciprocate and give a vouch when you've won provided your opp hasn't been an ass.

Pick Fibsters to play who you "recognise" from the shouts. Very, very few of them are droppers and most often you'll recognise if they are by the response to their shouting.

Play me!  You may have problems inviting if MissManners has "turned the switch" but if you ask me for a match in a tell or shout I'll invite you or your wife (message me on FIBS to tell me her nickname).

FIBS' coding is not ideal in the context of droppers but it will not, indeed can not I suspect, change. The core programming was done 18 years ago and although there have been lots of "add ons" to improve FIBS (eg. TourneyBot, repbot, MissManners, monitor) I don't think it has ever been changed.


Stick around on FIBS - there are lots of droppers and the "cleverer" among them (they can't actually be clever of course, their motive is malicious and the ratings points are worthless whether they're ramped or not) pick on new Fibsters but by far the majority of Fibsters are decent and fun to play.



Steve


PS I shall end on a quote for once as it seemed apt:

"Death to droppers"

[rebcalale]

I and my wife have started playing here about 4 days ago. We are fairly good players but never played on-line before. We both are getting very frustrated with the droppers policy you have here. We have not dropped a single game but we have already accumulated 8 drops on my account and 13 drops on my wife's. None of these drops have been initiated by us.  Now MissManners has banned my wife from initiating new games and I got warned about being banned soon. Most of these droppers have dropped just before we were going to win the game.  In doing so, they also screw up our rating. One of these droppers even used obscenity on my wife when she doubled on him. Two of the droppers invited me to play and when I accepted they rolled once and logged out leaving me with saved games. Since then we are spending all our time to looking for these droppers so we can finish the games and get the list adjusted but we have not been successful
There must be a way to reset the dropping list for these not-guilty players. Don't get us penalized for other people rudeness and malicious behavior. We enjoy the game but we can not play correctly and concentrate on the game in these atmosphere.  By the way, is there a way to automatically set all the droppers to auto invite so we don't have to keep looking for them?
sh** is shti and when u play on fibs sh** co

Of course we make a new user name and start over and keep changing it weekly.  In doing so we defeat the purpose of keeping a record and getting a rating.  Is not it what all these droppers do? We want do avoid doing that but if we want to continue playing we may have no choice.  

Please help. Change the software to stop penalizing the innocents for the fault of few bad players. We rather see you disbarring no one until you fix the software.

[rebcalale]

I've some other, less valuable, tips to add to ah_clems'.

repbot works better with more people using it. Ask for a vouch when you've lost and often you'll get one given that you've selected a Fibster with a positive rep and low saved count (yes we even have dropper scum with faked reputations unfortunately). You should reciprocate and give a vouch when you've won provided your opp hasn't been an ass.

Pick Fibsters to play who you "recognise" from the shouts. Very, very few of them are droppers and most often you'll recognise if they are by the response to their shouting.

Play me!  You may have problems inviting if MissManners has "turned the switch" but if you ask me for a match in a tell or shout I'll invite you or your wife (message me on FIBS to tell me her nickname).

FIBS' coding is not ideal in the context of droppers but it will not, indeed can not I suspect, change. The core programming was done 18 years ago and although there have been lots of "add ons" to improve FIBS (eg. TourneyBot, repbot, MissManners, monitor) I don't think it has ever been changed.


Stick around on FIBS - there are lots of droppers and the "cleverer" among them (they can't actually be clever of course, their motive is malicious and the ratings points are worthless whether they're ramped or not) pick on new Fibsters but by far the majority of Fibsters are decent and fun to play.



Steve


PS I shall end on a quote for once as it seemed apt:

"Death to droppers"

sh** is sh** and fibs is sh**.  Sorry but fibs will come at you if your opponents drop.  Fibs is a sh** site and has no way of knowing who drops.  So if your opponent  drops u will get charged with a drop.   Patti the Fibs administrator is a sh** head so don't expect any help.

[MaKro]

I just was told that I have 6 unfinished matches?
Games where play was dropped by opponent who was about to lose the game.

I have resumed the play everytime I had a chance, when I lost connection, no matter if I was about to lose.

I have been kept on hold inactive for very long time, by players who even used offending language too as if trying to force me to quit ....

It must be possible to change the system, reprogram in order to keep track of those who quits their games, when they stand to lose, and avoid resuming to finish game next time both players are online.

Otherwise I find no fun to play here, just stress and frustration

[stog]

try entering some tourneys and play some bots - if your rep allows you

gl

[socksey]

try entering some tourneys and play some bots - if your rep allows you

gl

If your rep doesn't allow you, ask the tourney director and he or she may allow you to play.   

socksey

[McNabbMpls]

I feel your pain, Yacha.

It is not unusual for entrenched bureaucracy's to fail to act, even in the face of an overwhelming need.  It's just so much easier to say... "gosh, it's not so bad, if we've lived with it all these years, you should too"!
Too bad...

McNabbMpls

[diane]

It is bad...but better than the current alternatives....

[dorbel]

That's so rude McNabb. Patti isn't an entrenched bureaucracy, she is a human being who, in her own time and at her own expense, is running this excellent server in the way that she thinks best. You may think that you know better but frankly, you don't. In the words of the old soldier to the whining new recruit in the shell hole, "If you know a better 'ole, go to it". You won't be missed, but if you choose to stay and learn to avoid the droppers, which isn't difficult, you will be welcome. That's fibs.

[stog]

It must be possible to change the system, reprogram in order to keep track of those who quits their games, when they stand to lose, and avoid resuming to finish game next time both players are online.

Patti and others do try and augment the code, but as it is quite old now, even small changes can have quite a knock-on effect.
New bits have been added in recent years to try and deal with some of the problems and new clients, but remember there are many software clients that interact with the server code, and not all of them can employ any modifications made.

it is for this reason i personally use javafibs, and have a programmable button "show savedcount %inviter", which i click when someone new invites -- if there are more than 7 or 8 with little experience, i am wary if i have little time.

have a look round these boards, use the 'search' facility, and, as diane has posted elsewhere, if you are a coder - get coding.......but be aware there are many established structural reasons that prevent what might appear simple improvements. Many folks have inputed over the years, and some changes have been possible.

be aware that like many things, there is much paddling below the surface, not seen from above

[yocha]

What client do you use to log into fibs? (is it JavaFIBS?) Did you use that client to create you id(s)?
I am wondering if there are some minor changes we can make to the client to help aviod some of the droppers

tom


I recieved the above email this morning. Here is my reply


Hi Tom,

I started by using 3dfibs and I believe that I have created my id using this client. Since then, I tried using javafibs and my iPad. I like all of them. Javafibs has the best layout and control but it is slow responding compared to 3dfibd. The iPad software is good but you always have the chance of getting disconnected. One of the nice features in the iPad is that you can list the saved game separately and it shows which one of them is online currently.

Regarding droppers it is a major problem. You punish the one being dropped together with the dropper. When filing a complain the dropper also file a complain against you, for no reason, of course.  Two days ago I played with "digiboy" he doubled me and I doubled back. He got mad and doubled again to 8 and I asked him why he did it since the match was only 3 point match. He replied that his reason is psychological to intimidate me. Since I had the advantage, I went ahead and redoubled to 16. We ended up at 64. When the game was one checker away from finish he just dropped put. I tried to chat with him to come back and finished the game and he got nasty and rude calling me all kind of derogatory names and of course he filed a complain against me.

I think you should modify the software to identify the droppers and charge them only. You should also avoid filing a complain by a dropper as you avoid vouching for a player you have not played with. In the case of digiboy, you should charge a 64 point negative rating on him. That will stop him from doubling for no reason and then dropping out just before loosing. I hate to think what would have been my rating if I was on the loosing end,

Thanks you
Yocha

[diane]

There are quite a few misunderstandings here...the most important is about the doubling..

When you play a 3 point match with someone, it does not matter what the score is, you will win or lose the same amount of points. That is calculated on rating difference between players. So, with javafibs for instance, it will tell you what you stand to win or lose playing a player, before you start.

So, if you were set to win 3.1 points against digiboy for the three point match, you will win 3.1 points, whether you win it 3-2, or 64-0. If you lose, it will be 3.1 points that is lost, regardless of score.

Do not let the overdoubling intimidate you. When people do it to me, I just think...'what a dork'...and smile quietly to myself.

The next is...that is a classic sign of a dropper btw..but by the time you see that sign, it is too late 

The next is that any client can pick a dropper from a droppee..the only person who can do that is Patti, and she has to do it manually - ie open the file and have a look.  I would not ask, let alone expect her to do that for every dropped match on fibs...so there is no way to get that information.

The clients can do lots though..

Imagine a client that:

-Popped up a warning with an odesys invite 'this is a mobile client with a high likelihood of disconnection before finishing - are you sure you want to accept?'

-Popped up a warning - 'this player has a reputation -10129(bad) and 13 saved games, are you sure you want to accept?' [3dfibs used to do this]

-Told you when players you have unfinished matches with are logged in [repbot used to do this]

-Auto invited when players you have unfinished matches with are ready?

That would help new players avoid so much trouble...lets face it, the vast majority of newbies have just worked out how to register, log in, set ready, invite someone, roll the dice, move the checkers and to double - by then, they just want to play, not go hunting for everything else they need to know!

The biggest problem is finding an angel to code all that...Tom, if you are thinking about doing any of this stuff - you are an angel