So Long

[don]

Hi Webrunner.

I suspect this is going to be my last post here because I don't think you will appreciate what I have to say.  I consider your actions somewhere between blind and hypocritical, and I see no hints that you might suddenly see the light.  Your seven-day ban did not particularly hurt my feelings, nor will a permanent ban, except in that I find it a bit sad to see a tool with the great potential of FIBSboard broken by some person or persons who wear logical blinders.  Your threat that I submit posts to anyone for pre-approval I consider an intended insult to me -- or else a sick joke.  The fact is, you can't even apply the rules of your own URL equally.  [http://www.fibsboard.com/index.php?act=boardrules]

When I first posted on FIBSboard about TourneyBot a few months ago, I asked what seemed to me to be a reasonable question.  I was careful to attack no individual, I didn't flame, I used no verbal abuse, and I used language that was allright for a 12-year-old.  I admit I hadn't bothered to read your rules at that time but I have now, and they seem quite reasonable to me.  I quickly learned that some of your stellar contributors, some of your most popular people, routinely break all of the rules I just mentioned.  Indeed, the thread which contains my posts which caused you to ban me for a week contains violations of all of these rules, but not by me.  And while you permit your priveleged users to violate them, I won't break your rules and quote the shouts, tells and messages I've been receiving from them on FIBS.  This really IS a sick joke:  They all advocate ignoring me but can't quite seem to do so; instead they message me filth.

Oh, and I have to admire the way you embrace in that thread a user, who is as far as I can imagine from what you started out to do with FIBSboard -- improve FIBS -- as your spiritual partner.  I suggest you review your goals.  In the early days, the board was full of silly suggestions, mainly to get Patti to somehow let a small group  become thought police, with no thought about how, or more realistically, who.  It is laughable and sad that you seem to have embraced as your guru, a FIBS user who was one of the main causes and topics of your "improvements" suggestions back in your early days.

There have been several enhancements of FIBS since 1992.  I'm uncertain how many have been the result of FIBSboard, a reletively recent thing, and I'm certain they weren't all good, or completely good.  I think they are worth noting here.

The first was GUIs.  These were almost entirely good, though I think there is a tendency to avoid the basic nature of FIBS in some of them, and a regrettable trend away from the FIBS help facilities.

Then there's bots.  Gary Tesauro has been written up in many scientific journals for his work with neural networks.  FIBS is now an experimental and educational research facility because of them.

FIBS League Gammon is a definite plus, adding interest and excitement to FIBS, with the caution that it is capable of abuse if irresponsible people are allowed to run tourneys and such.  Well done, Tomawaky!

RepBot was a cute thought, but it's been abused by so many that it should be nuked.  Small groups unite to distort any value it may have, some people have inflated ratings, some deflated.  I've seen it used as a weapon against new users, driving them away from FIBS.  Trading of vouches is common, as are complaints from multi-ID users.  In many cases, RepBot ratings bear no relation to an actual user's status as a player and completer of games and matches.  Obviously, RepBot was not thought out.

TourneyBot is excellent!  Unfortunately, moderators of TourneyBot are not guaranteed to be excellent.  The standards should be higher, and any kind of clique behavior should not be tolerated.  This appears to cause problems on your board as well, webby.  But there, I'd say you should have no secret conversations such as the TD-cafe.  In a free world, on a discussion forum, secrets are an acid that eats away at useful communication.  (TBot is kinda amusing, because it takes the problems with the TourneyBot interface and makes them worse.)

FIBSboard is a wonderful concept, a place for discussion of, and improvement of FIBS.  I support the concept and deplore some of the implementation.  However, an equal application of the excellent rules of the URL could definitely improve things.

Here they are:

--
The rules that are maintained are very simple:


No porn

No other shocking material and/or language. The rule is: if it is allright for a 12 year old it is allright for this board.

No spam

No verbal abuse

No illegal activities

No license- and/or copyright violations (illegal software, music, warez, images, books, etc.)

No clone accounts (multiple accounts for one user).

No account sharing

No racism.

No deliberate (personal) attacks. Use email or Personal Messaging for that.

No flamewars

No commercial posts (except for Fibsboard).

No crossposting

No doubleposting

No offtopic posting (start a new topic!)

--

Webrunner, I don't disrespect you all that much, but I happen to think you have made a mistake or two.  If you can't conceive of such a possibility, then I suppose this is a violation of your "deliberate attack" rule.  I hope and look forward to a reasonable discussion on the issues I have raised.  The first thing to think about is, IMO, how much improved discussions on FIBSboard would be if you required others to obey your rules.  I don't think I've disobeyed them, although I have on occasion responded according to what I perceive as the status-quo.

Finally, I must state that you can do anything you want with your board, Webrunner, without my permission or approval.  But if you accuse me of trolling or flaming, as you have, and if you allow it, I will respond.  If, as I suspect, you follow your usual pattern, you will allow a few flames from your regulars before putting a lock on this topic and banning me forever.  In that case, all I can say is, "I tried".

--
don

[dorbel]

Let's get some perspective here. All round the world, people are being arrested, imprisoned and tortured by cruel and repressive governments, because their beliefs, speech, even thoughts do not coincide with those of their masters. Don's latest self pitying rant because he was denied the opportunity to bore us all to tears for seven days for some reason, has in these circumstances all the significance of a small boy sulking in his bedroom because he isn't allowed to set out his train set on the dining room table. Get a life Don, join Amnesty International and write letters to assist prisoners of conscience rotting in jail cells. Bore the prison governors and torturers of the world, not the moderator of fibsboard!

[Biggles]

Amen brother dorbel.




Biggles
(the most Popular Fibster)

[webrunner]

Thank you dorbel for your support effort but i can manage quite well myself.
You are right however, this is getting boring and i have much more important things to do then to answer you, Don.

But.. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and will give you my first and only answer to your post.
That should make it clear where i stand and where you stand.

I have done some research ald read all of your posts on this board, and a lot of them on the usenet group. This made me more confident in the decision wich i took a week ago to ban you.
I told you a little while ago to look in the mirror and stop popinting to other people. That is something children do. We are mature people as far as i know and i'd like to solve this matter in a mature way. I am not in any way motivated to attack you!
This ban (or personal attack as you called it) was a reaction to a flamewar starting post from you. You broke the rules, you payed the price. That is how it works.

And yes.. sometimes other people get to post before i close the topic. Some of us actually have a life besides fibs(board), and i am in another time zone (europe) and a sleep when most posts are being posted.

Don, i won't ban you for this topic, although you probably hoped for that (more wood on the fire). I hope you can finally turn negative attitude of you around and post something positive for a change.
I won't treat you any different then i treat other forum users, and will ban you again when you break the rules again. Let me worry about others. And if you don't like the way i run this show.. well.. there is plenty other places where you can go to relief yourself.

Thanks for underlining what the rules are on this board. I think it is a good thing to bring them to the attention of readers.

I hope i can welcome you as a fibsboard user for many more years. It is really up to you!

[diane]

Dorbel has hit the nail though - such eloquence, such dogged determination should be used to right wrongs in the world - not argue the finer points of nothing.  Use your obvious talents, don - make something count.

And webby - it wasnt so much about helping you, as trying to help both don find a worthy cause to fight - and a whole host of others who could benefit from his tenacity.

[PortWine]

On the count of three!  1.....2......3.......POOR DON!

Wow, a list of things you think webrunner did right and things he did wrong.  Let me ask you something:  What have you ever contributed to fibs or fibsboard other than your bad attitude and contempt for other people's ideas?  Woe to he who disagrees with the "great don"!

I hope that the above was your last post and you will use your time to seek help!

Yours in friendship,

PortWine  :2drunk:  

[don]

All I see on this thread are flames and insults in response to my questions.  It is possible that some of my points were poorly phrased (or even wrong?).  All of them?  I repeat, all I see are flames, no discussion.  I see no constructive comments.

dorbel seems to have some gripe, though I'm not sure what it is.  "self pity"?  This dude's ego makes him attempt to start flame wars on FIBS that I surely don't want to be a part of.  He can't be quiet.

Biggles, no matter what his current ID is, is, as usual, himself.  It's funny to watch him gain support from a crowd that is allegedly for the improvement of FIBS.

Webby, I only hoped for a bit of logic or reason.  You have not treated me as you treat "other forum users", but that's OK too.  Now would you like to list the points I made, say, and refute them?  I doubt it.

If I have to point out diane's silliness, ..well, I don't have the time.  Try logic, diane, and ability to use a simple if poorly documented bot.  I once again point out that a sequential reading of my posts on this server will make more sense than anything diane has said,

or for that matter...

Port, I'm happy that you made such a contributing comment.  I know what I've contributed.  How about you?  You are at your usual best.  Try the sequential read, and your ignorance of any point I've ever made, your inability to respond politely, and your generally insulting posts.

I suggest the above users actually read what I said and come up with constructive comments that pertain to what I wrote.  I realize this is a difficult task for users who generally flame instead of create.  I repeat, I may not be correct in everything I've said, but I have made some points that deserve response, and which apparantly cause fear in those who should respond.

I've waited quite a while to see what shows up here, and I'm not surprised that the usual suspects show up.  I am surprised that they are all incapable of basic literacy skills, like reading comprehension.

--
don

[spielberg]

Don ,

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill - I , for one, would miss an intelligent voice -  tho' I suspect we disagree on most things.

You do seem to adopt a rather "preaching" attitude which is  , I suspect , rather counter productive. I know from personal experience , in debate , that demanding someone behave rationally is a very good way to ensure that they don't !

Let's face it - this is an unreal world and should therefore , I believe , be approached in a fantastic manner ie it's a game , its not "real life" (tho' that's a game to of course).


PS How about applying your (obvious) intellect to the Douglas Adams project
Hitchhiker's Guide - you're obviously a fan.

[Kari_Grandi]

I gotta say Spielberg, that for once a good and creative post in these flame threads!!!    

[webrunner]

Dear Don,

On the contrary what you might think, I am not out to get you. I run this board in the best way that i can.
Sometimes that means making dicisions that are not quite fair.
I only wanted this bickering between you and several other members to stop, and it did.
I chose the easiest way, wich was banning you because:
1. You were often making posts that did not comply to the rules and where flames/offending.
2. You attacked a person or two.
3. It is easier to ban one person then 10
4. It was obvious to me that if I shut you up for a while, it would stop, and it did.

I know you are an intellegent guy and I know everybody thinks you could make a huge contribution to Fibs, this board and the BG community. Instead you chose to stir things up all the time, wich is fine every once in a while, but not all the time!
People stop taking you seriously then and start to be annoyed by everything you say.

Also, I would like to add that you cannot know how I treat other forum users.
Maybe you should take a look at Triple_X's thread and see that I warned him just like I warned you. I also warned some other people that wouldn't let go after I banned you so...have a little faith in me (hmmm.. i feel a song coming up )

I rewelcome you to this board.
Lets try to make this more positive and I hope we can forget the past and start with a clean slate.

[diane]

The Douglas Adams project Hitchhiker's Guide

Hey - I read about this site in 'the salmon of doubt' - glad to see it is still up and running - I have bookmarked it and shall be spending some time there in the very near future (preferrably when I am not at work   ).  Thanks for the link - I had been meaning to go look for some time - but not quite got round to it yet  

(I seem to remember the book mentioned what looked like an interesting section on hangover cures   )

[don]

Last night on FIBS, Saturday, donzaemon and I were discussing Anakin's drop during a TourneyBot match, and attempting to persuade Anakin that all drops were bad.  During this conversation, PortWine butted in and congratualted Anakin on the drop.

Today, PortWine brought it up again in shouts, using words today (and last night) that I won't repeat here.  The key is, today, PortWine denied with exceding filth what he said last night with exceding filth.

I suggest that those who have been flaming me for what I have said here, take with a grain of salt every single word flamed by PortWine who, in his hatred, is willing to support a drop -- and a drop during a TourneyBot match at that -- and then deny it using language that many of us attribute to the worst of FIBS.

--
don

[zoeboy]

As a member of FIBS, which I believe in and which I have seen don tear apart, I must weaken the critical links in don's nexus of prissy obstructionism. First things first: don is terrified that there might be an absolute reality outside himself, a reality that is what it is, regardless of his wishes, theories, hopes, daydreams, or decrees. If fibsboard.com were actually in the business of covering fibs news rather than molding public attitudes to diminish our will to continue playing backgammon, they would unmistakably report that he likes to eroticize relations of dominance and subordination. Such activity can flourish only in the dark, however. If you drag it into the open, don  will run for cover, like a cockroach in a dirty kitchen when the light is turned on suddenly during the night. That's why we must encourage individuals to come out of their cocoons and flourish. His cop-outs leave me with several unanswered questions: Where is his integrity? And what exactly is the principle that rationalizes his putrid, addlepated prevarications? These are difficult questions to answer, because perhaps one day we will live in a world where good people are not troubled by fear of gruesome cutthroats. Until that day arrives, however, we must spread the word that if a cogent, logical argument entered don's brain, no doubt a concussion would result.

Don wants nothing less than to bask in the warped shine of philistinism. His so-called friends then wonder, "What's wrong with that?" Well, there's not much to be done with refractory, craven psychopaths who can't figure out what's wrong with that, but the rest of us can plainly see that don had promised us logic, and a fair debate. Instead, he gave us feudalism, irreligionism, and sexism. I suppose we should have seen that coming, especially since don used to complain about being persecuted. Now he is our primary persecutor. This reversal of roles reminds me that don's little schemes are bound to fail. And here, I assert, lies a clue to the intellectual vacuum so gapingly apparent in don's posts.

Show me where it says don has the right to divert us from proclaiming what in our innermost conviction is absolutely necessary. Ever since he decided to distract attention from more important issues, his consistent, unvarying line has been that there's no difference between normal people like you and me and hypersensitive converts to jingoism. Okay, now it's time to offend a few people. Actually, I hope not to offend anyone, although ethnocentrism is not merely an attack on our moral fiber. It is also a politically motivated attack on knowledge. Don's claims are designed to undermine the basic values of fair play, responsibility, and politeness. And they're working; they're having the desired effect.

This is not Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where the state would be eager to make a fetish of the virtues of laughable scapegoatism. Not yet, at least. But it's indisputably a tragedy that don's goal in life is apparently to deny fibsters a cultural voice. Here, I use the word "tragedy" as the philosopher Whitehead used it. Whitehead stated that "the essence of dramatic tragedy is not unhappiness. It resides in the solemnity of the remorseless working of things," which I interpret as saying that seeking to fortify a social correctness that restricts experience and defines success with narrow boundaries is a hallmark of a totalitarian regime. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: Don displays the paranoid malice that is the hallmark of true colonialism. If you want to clear up these muddied waters with some reality, then tell everyone you know the truth, that the opportunism "debate" is not a debate. It is a harangue, a politically motivated, brilliantly publicized, shameless attack on progressive ideas. I don't want this to sound like sour grapes, but don is capable of only two things, namely whining and underhanded tricks.

A good friend of mine on fibs once said that we should all tell him how wrong he is. Amen to that! In fact, I even informed my friend that don seizes every opportunity to get on my nerves. I cannot believe this colossal clownishness. Any sane person knows that I, for one, frequently wish to tell don that his credos are unilateralism redux. But being a generally genteel person, however, I always bite my tongue. How I pity him if I were to be his judge. I would start by notifying the jury that don frequently avers his support of anarchy and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what don is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims.

Now, lest you jump to the conclusion that it is not only acceptable, but indeed desirable, to promote the sort of behavior we frequently witness on fibs that would have made the folks in Sodom and Gomorrah blush, I assure you that I want to reinforce the contentions of all reasonable people and confute those of ethically bankrupt, acrimonious hackers. I want to do this  because we live in villainous times.

Who could be more selfish than don? As you ponder the answer to that question, consider that whenever anyone states the obvious -- that he feels he has not only a right, but also a duty, to pooh-pooh the reams of solid evidence pointing to the existence and operation of an aberrant coterie of anarchism -- discussion naturally progresses towards the question, "Whatever happened to good sportsmanship?" The answer is quite simple. I already listed several possibilities, but because don lacks the ability to remember beyond the last two seconds of his life, I will restate what I said before, for his sake: A central fault line runs through each of his bromides. Specifically, I don't need to tell you that this is a contributing factor to the apparent decline of civilization and culture around us. That should be self-evident. What is less evident is that he extricates himself from difficulty by intrigue, by chicanery, by dissimulation, by trimming, by an untruth, by an injustice.

If the past is any indication of the future, don will once again attempt to doctor evidence and shout logs in order to make intransigent generalizations to support abusive, preconceived views. Currently, his perversions merely provide officious fast-buck artists with an irresistible temptation to terrorize the female fibster populus. As you will see in a lustrum or two, this is only the tip of a gigantic iceberg.

Ladies and gentlemen, he argues that bad things "are other peoples' fault" (i.e., they're not caused by don himself). To maintain this thesis, he naturally has had to shovel away a mountain of evidence, which don does by the desperate expedient of claiming that we ought to worship an uncouth autocrat as a folk hero. In retrospect, he has always been more censorious than most witless blockheads. Doesn't he realize that the antithesis of noxious terrorism is moral, religious, and cultural solidarity among the people of a community? The answer to that question has broad implications. For example, don either is or elects to be ignorant of scientific principles and methods. He even intentionally misuses scientific terminology to spam the Internet with unsolicited loquacious junk e-mail. Despite the fact that he disregards any evidence that contradicts his views, don coins polysyllabic neologisms to make his artifices sound like they're actually important. In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim with words that have yet to appear in any accepted dictionary.

Are his ethics good for the server? The server's dropper statistics, cheating statistics, bigotry statistics, offensiveness statistics, and mental illness statistics give us part of the answer. These statistics should make it clear that we must spread awareness of the naive nature of don's blanket statements. We all depend on that. As we organize our campaigns against insidious, feckless undesirables and formulate responses to their rhetoric, it is critical that we prescribe a course of action.

Moving on, if I said that don is merely trying to make FIBS a better place, I'd be a liar. But I'd be being thoroughly honest if I said that his quips violate the rational, enlightened claims of their own enunciatory modality. In view of that, it is not surprising that one of his favorite tricks is to create a problem and then to offer the solution. Naturally, it's always his solutions that grant him the freedom to pollute the great canon of FIBS history with references to his surly bait-and-switch tactics, never the original problem. Don's warnings are based on a denial of reality, on the substitution of a deliberately falsified picture of the world in place of reality. And this dishonesty, this refusal to admit the truth, will have some very serious consequences for all of us before FIBS is dead. Some people consider don's vrebal pranks a comical sort of evil, but the truth is that don has announced his intentions to interfere with my efforts to put an end to his evildoing. While doing so may earn don a gold star from the mush-for-brains Marxism crowd, if you can make any sense out his vexatious, mindless treatises, then you must have gotten higher marks in school than I did.  

[webrunner]

Ehhh zoeboy, with an experience of 460 something, how can you judge on Don's past.
In other words, maybe it is time to identify yourself ....

You've caused me quite some trouble with your devestating posts in the Triple_X threads. The least you can do is tell me who i am getting in trouble for

[diane]

then you must have gotten higher marks in school than I did.

I find it hard to imagine this would be possible  

And you sure are hanging out that 18th birthday - mind I would too - if I got another one    

[PortWine]

First, and most importantly zoeboy, I have now gone back and reread everything you have ever posted and find you are a man of singular tastes.  I congratulate you on your new avatar!

Second, I catagoricaly deny that I congratulated Anakin on his drop and have never supported a drop in my life.  You twisted what I said in sarcasm and again you missed the point.  For someone who claims to be so smart, you really are quite stupid.  In addition, I said "unkind" things to you in shout because you persist in making up lies so that you can seem important.  I realize that I feed this self-consuming urge within you to be important, but I like showing you for the pompous jerk that you are.

And lastly, and this is the God's honest truth, the only person who ever ever ever dropped me in a tourney match was YOU!  If anyone cares to know the truth just ask around.  don dropped me in a match twice and each time had to be coaxed back to the table.  He thereafter claimed that he played the match "under protest" claiming that I had insulted him somehow, which in truth he brought on himself with his pompous ways.  You are the tourney dropper don.  Not only do I not support it, I find it hypocritical that an actual tourney dropper would accuse someone else fo supporting that kind of drop.  And by the way, don did lose the match.

PW   :fo:

PS - I thought this was your "so long" thread?  In which case, go away!

[don]

I see a very creative post by zoeboy, and a lame attempt by PortWine to pass off his support of a person who drops, and drops a tourneybot match, as sarcasm.

Kudos to zoeboy.

Get real, Port.

--
don

[socksey]

Hmmmm.........maybe so, don, but you did drop Port in a tourney and otherwise as he described.

socksey




"Bill Clinton's book went on sale at long last. Hundreds of people waited
outside of Barnes and Noble in the pouring rain for a chance to meet Bill
Clinton. When asked if she minded the rain, one woman said, "I'm meeting
Bill Clinton, I just assumed my dress would get ruined"--Conan O'Brien

[PortWine]

don, if I supported droppers in any way shape or form I would say that.  I don't think anyone thinks I am shy about saying what I think.  So again, you just prove that you are a nut job who twists people's statements to fit your warped ends.

So what you are really saying is that your brain is so literal that you can not understand sarcasm?  Really, are you this thick-headed?

PW

[don]

True enough, socks, but I dropped Port momentarilly for violating the "rules" of TourneyBot play, as enumerated by both him... and YOU!  I then completed the match.  Meanwhile, Port is in denial, or excuse-dom, about his support of a drop, and a drop during a TourneyBot match.

I was wrong of course, when I dropped Port, no matter what the "rules" of TourneyBot might be.  At least I completed, after you, socks, persuaded Port where he was wrong.  As for the difference between Port's sarcasm (which I suspect is a lie) and his straight talk, I don't know the difference, nor do the three or four other users I've queried.  Hmm, perhaps he is cruder when non-sarcastic?  I just reread his remarks, and it seems they have less obscene language in 'em.

--
don