A nation to be embarrased about...

[don]

I agree that our constitutional freedoms are under attack.  Incursions by the patriot act as well as Bush/moral-majority attempts to legislate morality are a couple of the reasons I could not bring myself to vote for Bush.  (FYI:  I didn't vote for Kerry either.)

However, I maintain my position that the problems of US government are due to citizen ignorance and apathy.  We citizens still have the power to govern ourselves effectively.  We just give up that power without a fight, and tend to blame the politicians we hand over our government to.  "Gee, we can't do anything about it," is the battle-whine of Americans as we complacently watch our nation go down the tubes.   I don't consider it idealistic to recognize that our problems are our fault, and not the fault of those who take advantage of us with our uninformed advice and consent.

[Bondy]

The rest of the world wishes it had a government as enlightened as ours

Don, before I fly off the handle at you for this comment, would you care to explain it for me please?  Specifically, in what way is your government enlightened that mine isn't (for reference, I'm Australian)?  I would like to point out that as a constituent of "the rest of the world," I do not wish for the American government, in whole or part, or anything that resembles it.

[lewscannon]

While I, as a proud American, think that Dorbel's comments are, as the British put it 'spot on', have one question: if baseball isn't such a great game, why is the championship called the 'World Series'?

Heh, heh, this should get things started  

[Shades]

While I, as a proud American, think that Dorbel's comments are, as the British put it 'spot on', have one question: if baseball isn't such a great game, why is the championship called the 'World Series'?

Heh, heh, this should get things started

  because you think america IS the world???      

[don]

Ya' caught me in the act of hyperbole, Bondy.  It's a disease which is running rampant here.  Be that as it may, I stand by what I said in a general sense, if not universal.  You'd probably be more forgiving if you didn't have to suffer through life drinking Fosters.

[Bondy]

Who drinks Fosters?  We've got the Malt Shovel, Little Creatures, and Coopers breweries over here.  Wouldn't touch Fosters with a barge-pole!

Anyway, beer has nothing to do with it.  I'm not venting some idle frustration; I take immediate and grave offense to your implication that the American government is in any way better than mine.  If I ran around telling you that Maoist China's government was more 'enlightened' than yours, you'd probably take similar offense.

[gogogiz]

:guitar:

[BladeRunner]

Dedicated to vqs and Biggles

[BladeRunner]

Dedicated to vqs and Biggles

[NIHILIST]

While all of the preceding comments are interesting, they offer no insight into why Bush won and Kerry lost. Sadly, the post-mortems are as laden with the same I HATE BUSH rhetoric as the discussions on FIBS leading up to the election.

In trying to understand the outcome, it is important to note that the majority of voters in the largest turnout in American history voted for the guy that you people profess to despise. Are all 55 million Bush voters dumber than you are ? Is it possible that YOU are on the wrong side of the issues ?

The things that should really concern you as Democrats is that, once again, your party nominated a liberal from Massachusetts who promptly went out and got stomped. Of more concern to you as Democrats, and to the integrity of the two-party system in America, is that this election confirmed that the Democratic Party is no longer a NATIONAL party. What they stand for, what they say, no longer resonates outside of the traditional liberal bastions of California and the Northeast. Even traditional labor/farm strongholds like Michigan and Minnesota were closer than anyone might have anticipated.

Other achievements of note; Republicans took every open Senate seat in the South, all five of them previously held by Democrats. For the first time in 50 years, a sitting Senate party leader, a Democrat, was defeated. In the House, two prominent incumbent Democrat congressmen in Texas went down. Also in the House, a grand total of ONE incumbent Republican was defeated.

Gay marriage was repudiated in every state where it was a ballot issue. This represents not only the voters' feelings on this issue, but also their feelings about activist judiciaries imposing this kind of value on society ala Massachusetts.

None of this was an accident.

While I prefer the outcome of the election to the alternative, I don't take any great joy in it. America is more polarized now than it has been since the '60s. Real issues have gone un-addressed by BOTH parties and I see no evidence that will change.

However, once again I have hope that a President with no concern about re-election, and control of both houses of Congress, will have the guts to lead in finding solutions to at least some of these problems.

SOCIAL SECURITY: In 10 years, my generation starts cashing out. This means that the number of recipients will double from the present 40 million. The impact of this is not even being discused.

TAX CODE: The current system is bloated, incomprehensible, and generally despised by one and all. We've been promised simplification for years with no result. There are plenty of alternatives available that would make the system more fair to all.

OUR ROLE IN THE WORLD: Like it or not, absent an effective United Nations, America will be increasingly called on to intervene in flashpoint areas around the world. A rational, consistent policy is long overdue. Where is the morality in intervening in the Balkans to stop genocide of white Europeans while ignoring genocide of black Africans in Rwanda ? This one may be the most difficult of all. It is by now apparent that the UN is a lame player and it's unrealistic to count on the nations of Europe whose defense we guarantee anyway.

Thanks for indulging me and shalom.


NIHI

[don]

The important thing, NIHI, is to remember that Kerry's supporters would have supported a popsicle if running against Dubya.  They didn't supported Kerry, they hated Bush.  They had nothing to offer as an alternative.

[BladeRunner]

While all of the preceding comments are interesting, they offer no insight into why Bush won and Kerry lost.

Read the very first post in this thread, where, as clear as crystal, the reasons WHY are there! Maybe you have a blindfold {mindfold?} while reading, Bob.

[Shades]

History done over again...    

[amarganth]

If America IS the world, this would be the result of a worlwide election:

[spielberg]

Bush's victory is best explained by the republicans superiority in the GOTV (get out the vote) campaign. They were aided in this by the extremely clever addition of the "do you approve of gay marriages" addition to the poll in 13 states (including some swing states) which helped get out the "christian" vote.

It will be interesting to see what Bush does with his second term - the demographics and budget deficit both demand some action yet I suspect will remain unadressed. It will be even more fun for a non american to watch the row which will erupt when he tries to change the supreme court - tho' I doubt even he will dare to take on Roe v Wade  (a womans right to an abortion)

What this election demonstrated to me , a european , is the massive influence religion and faith still have in the US. It's strange , America professes to be secular yet is fundamentally much , much more religious than Europe.

[NIHILIST]

Good observations. I also doubt that Roe will be overturned.


NIHI

[Zorba]

Religion in the USA often looks like religion in the Netherlands somewhere around 1950 or even long before that.

Perhaps immigrants have a tendency to hang on to old cultural and religious habits and this hampers development....

This is not only true for the USA!

[lewscannon]

Good thing that our God is better than their God.

[Shades]

Good thing that our God is better than their God.

....OH MY GOD...!!!     :eeeek:  

[don]

Spielberg, one indicator of US religion is the fact that 45% of Americans believe that man was created by god sometime in the last 10,000 years.  Which brings up the appalling state of science ed. in the US:  In a recent survey, 90% of Harvard grads think that summer is warmer because the Earth is closer to the sun.