I am not welcome

[aram]

I logged in as AramKhan, I got this message and then I have been disconnected.

"You aren't welcome."

Why is it so?

A.

[don]

You may need to try to create a new account, aram, to find if it is a specific ban on you, or Italy in general (.IT), that Patti is enforcing.  There's another recent discussion here about allowing Italians to play each other in which Patti cites threatening email from Italian user(s) as a problem.

Not everyone agrees with Patti's occasional and possibly arbitrary punishment of everyone from an ISP (or an entire country) because of the behavior of one user, but it's a moot point as near as I can tell.

I don't think there's any argument that abusive and threatening email to Patti is bad.  It's just that nobody has offered any other kind of solution than Patti's blanket solution.  Making people responsible for their words is a problem that governments have more and more often as the internet expands.  Simple individual vigilante actions like Patti's are rare and arbitrary.  One might theorize an organization of SysAdmins with an enforcement arm penalizing such behavior, but such a quasi-governmental organization would quickly come into conflict with countries who promote free speech.  You will note there is no free speech anywhere in the rules of FIBS.  (In fact there is an assumption against absolute free speech in the opening message of FIBS, though it seldom gets enforced.)

The problem is rooted, of course, in anonymity.  We need privacy of certain kinds of communications over the net (finanancial...), and many societies demand privacy of other kinds (activities).  In between is a gray area which is difficult to legislate and more difficult to enforce.  The United States and many other countries have laws which protect these gray areas to differing levels.  Many criminals exploit this area thinking their actions are legal when they are not.  They are simply too difficult because they are too many to enforce.

While I have a few ideas about a group dealing with the problem better than an individual sysop of a server can, I have to admit I see no simple way to implement them using informal or formal groups such as international organizations or nation-states.  One idea that strikes me is to pick out a few trivial criminals and impose current laws on them harshly, recognizing that many more are still getting away with it but making payment for crime a possibility even for the minor offenses.  Convict a few for their offenses, then sue the pants off 'em in civil court to make an example.  NAPster has had some success with this, but there's money involved, not just speech.  And the criminal justice system can't handle more than a tiny percentage of the abusers.

[aram]

I am not sure, but I think it is intended for my nickname.
The first time I connect I am asked for username and password and I can login, but I am immediately disconnected with the "You aren't welcome" message.
The following times the connection closes immediately.
When I use a different IP I find the same pattern.
So it seems like as soon as the system understands where I connect from it blocks completely my IP.

Don, about your suggestion, I am not going to create a new account just for troubleshooting purposes, since it is forbidden to have more than one account per person.

During the first succesfull login I could read a long introductory message stating something like "it seems like we have a new moron", and talking about emails to which Patti could not answer, whitelisting and spamming.
Although it was not completely clear to me, after the second reading I thought it was not for me, because:
1) I did not send emails to FIBS in the last few years.
2) I did not configure any blacklisting, unless Yahoo! did.

And, at first, I thought there was some trouble with italians in general, but I think I would be immediately blocked by IP, not by nickname and after login.

Am I paranoid or is it just for me?
Is someone else experiencing the same?
Cheers

AK

[DirtyHarryII]

Seems odd to me - think you need an answer from Patti.

If I remember correctly Aram has been able to play earlier even though he couldn't play any other italiens. Something must have been changed recently. Seems to me that if it's possible to ban .it players in general, it must be possible to ban certain.it players only - a spamfilter for certain .it or any other for that matter - I have no idea how to do that, but it must be an option. Btw a new nick is not the solution if it's still .it.

DHII

[tucsonAZ]

Hi Aram,

Sorry to hear that you were turned away at the door. It probably has something to do with the "IT" (italy) problem that was discussed some weeks ago.

Try GammonEmpire. I have been playing there for a couple of weeks now and I enjoy it. Play for small stakes real money or just for free.

maareyes

[aram]

Yes, but if I was filtered because my ISP is italian, shouldn't the system disconnect me as soon as it discovers where I come from?
I tried a third time from a new IP. I connected and then waited for about a minute.
Nothing happened.
I logged in as guest.
Still nothing.
Then I connected as AramKhan, and I have been immediately disconnected.

So I guess it has to be for my eyes only, not for Italy in general.

A.

[vegas_vic]

Aram
just ask Patti i am sure it is aglich in the system . that happend to me for a few days about 4 months ago . Patti said it was not on her side .
After all this is not foll proof and its machines , ask her and she will look into it.

As for morons it was about me , i sent her a e-mail saying to her : patti am i making a big stink about 2pt matches and what do you think ?
i forgot i sent it thru a e-mail account she could not respond back to i did not add ther to my address list .

patti doesnt jum thru hoops and she thinks anyone that blocks e-mails turns into a spamer because it get's kicked back.

I am the moron this time in her eyes.
and all day today its been kickign me out over and over so it must be the server .

[Bereeze]

My dear aram it is not only your problem Many italians when try to connect in fibs they found " You arent  welcome "   Caro aram qualcosa di torbido e persecutorio sta accadendo a noi italiani. E da molto tempo ormai che gioco in GamesGrid e ti devo dire che non solo l'interfaccia e migliore ,le persone sono piu educate, nelle shout  non vedrai quasi mai delle volgarita , ma sopratutto pagando nessuno puo permettersi di cancellarti il tuo nick.  Ormai la questione Italia e diventata un cruccio di Patti la quale non riesce a fasene una ragione.   Ha bannato non so quanti nick dicendo che imbrogliavano senza avere una sola prova. Penso che Fibs abbia bisogno solo di una cosa: di un nuovo manager piu equilibrato e l'immediato licenziamento di Patti. Un caro saluto.
Tutte illazioni e bugie di una persona che ne ha fatto un caso personale
PS Se Patti e l'effettiva prprietaria(cosa che non credo)che lo ceda a qualcuno di competente come e stato Marvin prima di lei.

[vegas_vic]

Aram what ever its worth you take it up with Patti and not thru this forum.because it sure is nto going to move her. This forum might pat you on the back but wont get you back on.

I talked to her and told her i belive you to be a great player and a standup guy and a fellow armenian i dont know if that means anything at all.

here are a few things she said i do not know that they mean maybe you can ask her your self.

Patti says: Danzyka generally comes in from exactly the same piece of net.realestate as AramKha
You tell Patti: patti if i know anyone in here , this guy is on the up and up
You tell Patti: did he e-mail you ?
You tell Patti: he really seems like a good guy
Patti says: I don't know; I haven't checked my FIBS mail recently.
You tell Patti: i am onlyone person and i really think it must be a mixup
You tell Patti: i cant imagine this guy would do such a thing , he is a very good player and doesnt need to
You tell Patti: plays league and in here he has not be anything up a honorable person
You tell Patti: wahts with Danzyka ?
Patti says: You are misunderstanding.  It isn't something he did, and it isn't targeted at him.
Patti says: Listen to me.  Stop.  It isn't something he did.  Danzyka is my #1 FIBS abuser right now.



So i woudl find out who is Danzyka using your isp and maybe you can resolve your problem.

i still belive you dont need to mess with nicks , but patti can see things more then we can
End of the day you have to prove to her and not us here in fibsboard.

Good luck she is open to anyone that is willing to make there case , hell if she listens to me and puts up with my english i am sure she willl to you ;

good luck Vic

PS and i would add maybe we can find the italians dumping games to eachother and giving all italians a bad rap here.


Pss here is one more message from her when i asked her about you Aram

Message from Patti (Sun Jan 29 19:14:44 1939 GMT): AramKhan is, unfortunately, in exactly the same netblock as our buddy danzyka, etc.

[aram]

Vegas, <ierphair> (   ), thank you for advocating my cause, but don't worry, it would be ok anyway.
Yesterday I sent an email to Patti, as soon as I understood it was not a generalized issue.

Bye  
AK

[vegas_vic]

Parev Aram ,

I say again if you have issues with Patti i woudl air it out with her one on one .
What ever said in here is not going to move her.

You have to make your case direct the the lady , i have always found her fair never took sides on any issue .

[Shades]

E da molto tempo ormai che gioco in GamesGrid e ti devo dire che non solo l'interfaccia e migliore ,le persone sono piu educate, nelle shout  non vedrai quasi mai delle volgarita , ma sopratutto pagando nessuno puo permettersi di cancellarti il tuo nick.

:imwithstupid:


     
        GameGrid.... you need glasses....   and make your own point here :

using a langage not readable by all of us show how "fair" and well "educated" you are...recall us all your nicks, please??
:kill:  

[Tomawaky]

 

[Patti]

Hey Vic.  It's generally considered quite rude to publicly post private conversations without garnering the permission of all the people involved.

As for Aram, right now danzyka and his many nicks is the number one FIBS abuser, and he's being a royal pain in the ass.  There's a systemwide ban on his netblock because of it.   Unfortunately, Aram also happens to be coming from that netblock, so he gets hit as collateral damage.  I'm sorry it has to be that way, but I don't have a better tool for keeping the not a nice person off the site.

As for your challenge-response system, I'd be happy to explain to you exactly how and why implementing such a system turns you into a spammer, and provide you with examples of spam that I've gotten because some random person was running a C-R system.  Basically, by implementing C-R, you're keeping the spam out of your mailbox by putting it into the mailboxes of innocent third parties.  That's just rude.

[DirtyHarryII]

As for Aram, right now danzyka and his many nicks is the number one FIBS abuser, and he's being a royal pain in the ass.  There's a systemwide ban on his netblock because of it.   Unfortunately, Aram also happens to be coming from that netblock, so he gets hit as collateral damage.  I'm sorry it has to be that way, but I don't have a better tool for keeping the not a nice person off the site.

Seems that all we need are some code wizards ready to deal with that challenge.... easy now folks - one at a time    

[vegas_vic]

You are right Patti

I am sorry i should of asked .
i was just trying to remove it from the public forum and have them get in touch with you ;

You are right wont happen again .

vic

[aram]

Actually, I tried from four completely different subnets.
So the application blocks me *by username*, not by IP.

Anyway...

[aram]

As for Aram, right now danzyka and his many nicks is the number one FIBS abuser, and he's being a royal pain in the ass.  There's a systemwide ban on his netblock because of it.   Unfortunately, Aram also happens to be coming from that netblock, so he gets hit as collateral damage.

That is definitely NOT TRUE.
*I* get blocked, not my IP address.
I could connect with another username from my same IP address.