FIBS Board backgammon forum

Hit (once, twice) or play safe?

Author Topic: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?  (Read 9081 times)

Offline ebi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:48 PM »
Hi all

This is my first post so please tell me if I did something wrong. I am currently reading "backgammon for serious players" from Bill Robertie (probably not the best book as I learned later on) never the less I was interested in the reasoning for some moves. So this one catched my special attention.


What and why do you think is the best move?

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Thanks for your answers :)
---ebi

FIBS Board backgammon forum

Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:48 PM »

Offline ah_clem

  • VIP Executive Donor 2010
  • Advanced Fibsboarder
  • *
  • Posts: 2,114
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 09:42:37 PM »
If it weren't for the fact that red has a three point homeboard and black has only a one point homeboard, the automatic play is to whack both checkers 6/4*/1*.  Whenever you can put two checkers on the roof you should seriously consider doing so - it's not always best, but it's always worth a good look.  With two on the bar your opponent will have to use his entire roll to enter and this gains tempo - you get a chance to improve your position while his move is forced.  And even with a weak board like this one, 11/36 times he's still on the bar after his move.

In this position, red has a strong board so that makes the double hit and ensuing blot more risky.  I'm inclined towards 13/8 - I don't like stacking six(!) checkers on one point with 11/6 and I think it's worth leaving a double indirect shot to have the additional flexibility of a builder on the 11.  But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the double hit is correct.

FIBS Board backgammon forum

Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 09:42:37 PM »

Offline diane

  • Fibsboard Executive VIP Donor 2017
  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 4,331
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 07:01:57 AM »
In this position, red has a strong board so that makes the double hit and ensuing blot more risky.  

If that were the case, wouldnt that make 13/10, 6/4* a bit silly, given that there will be too many rolls that hit the 4, and a couple that hit two checkers...?

I too like the double hit..quite simply because I dont have anything else going on, and the 'tempo' gain would give me a moment to try and throw a board together, or move some builders, or anything to try and perk this up a bit!  The pip on the ace wouldnt worry too much, it is either parked for later, or recycled - burying one checker for the sake of a double hit seems a fair trade off.
Never give up on the things that make you smile

Offline ah_clem

  • VIP Executive Donor 2010
  • Advanced Fibsboarder
  • *
  • Posts: 2,114
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 12:16:47 PM »
If that were the case, wouldnt that make 13/10, 6/4* a bit silly, given that there will be too many rolls that hit the 4, and a couple that hit two checkers...?

Agreed.  the double hit leaves 11 return shots and I count 18 return shots for 13/10, 6/4*.  Slotting the four point seems like leading with your chin.  But one thing I've noticed about pre-bot era authors is that they have an aversion to burying a checker  and a propensity to slot the 5 and 4 points, and this bias is not always confirmed by the bots.  See for instance the opening roll 6-4.  So, I'm not surprised if Robertie advocates slotting the four, but I doubt gnu or XG agrees.

BTW, I'm not entirely sure 'BG for Serious Players' is really pre-bot - jellyfish came out in '94 and the book was '97 - but I don't think every move was checked and jellyfish was still in its infancy.


FIBS Board backgammon forum

Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 12:16:47 PM »

Offline gaspar

  • Fibsboard Forum Special Guest Player
  • Fibsboarder
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 01:50:21 PM »
well the dbl direct shot isnt so safe all 7's and 6-4 that's 8 shots that really do nothing for your position OR hitting twice which gives only 3 more shots and you have his bar pt so it ain't that dangerous if you do get hit.

i think you have to attack ...you are behind in the race (and that usually determines your mind set in these positions)

Offline RickrInSF

  • Fibsboarder plus
  • ****
  • Posts: 138
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 03:15:57 PM »
i think it makes a difference here if it's a one pointer or not, if it's a one pointer, the double hit or 13/10, 6/4* makes sense, your behind and you have to do something to correct this or you loose, if it's not a one pointer, both look too dangerous (because of gammon possibilities)

Offline ah_clem

  • VIP Executive Donor 2010
  • Advanced Fibsboarder
  • *
  • Posts: 2,114
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 06:35:17 PM »
well the dbl direct shot isnt so safe all 7's and 6-4 that's 8 shots that really do nothing for your position OR hitting twice which gives only 3 more shots and you have his bar pt so it ain't that dangerous if you do get hit.


Good point.  My play leaves 8 shots, which is not much less than the 11 that the double-hit leaves.  And the double hit allows black to substantially improve his position while red is trying to recover from the double hit.  If this was a move in the fibsboard match I'd be changing my vote at this point.

Offline diane

  • Fibsboard Executive VIP Donor 2017
  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 4,331
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 07:48:07 PM »
all 7's

What dice is he playing with?  :wacko:   ;)
Never give up on the things that make you smile

FIBS Board backgammon forum

Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 07:48:07 PM »

Offline ebi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Hit (once, twice) or play safe?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 07:44:19 PM »
Thank you very much for your answers I can now understand the possibilities a lot better I guess I would do the double hit now :)

Tags:
 

anything
TinyPortal © 2005-2018