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Position # 55

Author Topic: Position # 55  (Read 10156 times)

Offline PersianLord

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Position # 55
« on: March 13, 2009, 10:13:05 AM »
Position information:

Pip-count:  Red 47-80 White
Match:       Money game

White to play 5-1

Note: This position was sent to my e-mail by NIHI and as of his request, I didn't set up a poll with suggested moves. Please elaborate which move you favor and why.

Regards
The leftist's feelings of inferiority run so deep that he cannot tolerate any classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the rejection by many leftists of the concept of mental illness and of the utility of IQ tests.  - T.K

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Position # 55
« on: March 13, 2009, 10:13:05 AM »

Offline blitzxz

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 01:32:44 PM »
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 01:41:52 PM by blitzxz »

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 01:32:44 PM »

Offline socksey

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 07:02:40 PM »
Is this a 1 ptr?   :unsure:  If not, what is the score?   :dry: 

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Offline NIHILIST

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 12:02:26 AM »
Money game.


Bob
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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 12:02:26 AM »

Offline Zorba

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 02:45:51 AM »
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
The fascist's feelings of insecurity run so deep that he desperately needs a classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the fascist's embracement of concepts like mental illness and IQ tests.  - R.J.V.

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Offline socksey

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 04:32:00 AM »
Quote
Money game.  Bob

I got that.   :wacko:  Does that mean it's a 1 point match?   :huh:  Forgive me for being so dumb.   :blush:

socksey



"Commenting on a complaint from a Mr. Arthur Purdey about a large gas bill, a spokesman for North West gas said, “We agree it was rather high for the time of year. It's possible Mr. Purdey has been charged for the gas used up during the explosion that destroyed his house.” - from an article in the UK’s The Daily Telegraph

Offline PersianLord

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 07:46:28 AM »
I got that.   :wacko:  Does that mean it's a 1 point match?   :huh:  Forgive me for being so dumb.   :blush:

socksey



"Commenting on a complaint from a Mr. Arthur Purdey about a large gas bill, a spokesman for North West gas said, “We agree it was rather high for the time of year. It's possible Mr. Purdey has been charged for the gas used up during the explosion that destroyed his house.” - from an article in the UK’s The Daily Telegraph


No, money game is not equal to 1-pt matches. In money games, players agree upon a fixed amount of money per point. For example, Bob told me in this particular match one point was valued $5. Now, if any player wins a single game he will win $5, and gammons and backgammons valued $10 and $15 respectively. And don't forget that this is the case if the cube remains on the center all the way, which was not the case for Bob's match.

So, not even gammons and backgammons value much in money games in contrary to 1-pt matches, cube handling is in play too. BTW, cube handling in money games is much easier than match play, because the doubling windows and take/pass points are fixed and don't change.

Regards
The leftist's feelings of inferiority run so deep that he cannot tolerate any classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the rejection by many leftists of the concept of mental illness and of the utility of IQ tests.  - T.K

Offline NIHILIST

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 02:16:56 PM »
In money play, each game stands by itself. Winning one game might be worth 1 point, winning the next might be worth 16. Unlike match play theres no fixed ending point, ie a match to 7. In money play you generally continue until one player quits, might be 1 hour, might be 10.

Bob
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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 02:16:56 PM »

Offline Tomawaky

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2009, 06:43:58 PM »
Yes interesting !
Quickly I would have made 7/1*
But the banana as it is called if understand would certainly better.
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Offline socksey

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2009, 08:28:41 PM »
In that case I would play 19/13.   ;)  I never take unnecessary chances with money.   :)

socksey



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Offline spielberg

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 11:23:05 AM »
It's not an unnecessary chance sox - it adds value.


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« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 11:28:13 AM by spielberg »

Offline NIHILIST

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 05:42:28 PM »
This problem is interesting because the best play is completely counter-intuitive. This position occurred 25 years ago during a chouette. I was in the box, holding a 2 cube, vs 4 opponents. Things didn't look very promising at all.

In money play you always want to be alert to opportunities to gammon your opponent and double your winnings. The best gammon opportunity here is hitting the blot on the 1 point, getting hit, then picking up another blot. The question is what's the best way to extract maximum juice from the position.

In this case the best play is breaking the inner board, hitting loose on the 1 point, leaving 2 blots.
This is completely counter-intuitive, but think about it. If you WANT TO GET HIT, arent your chances better if you leave 2 blots vs 1 ?
Another nasty aspect to this play that hasn't been discussed is what happens when opponent rolls 1-3 or 2-3 from the bar. Now you have 3 blots to fire at instead of 2.

In the actual game the team captain played 7-1, hitting. I responded with 1-6, entering, exiting and hitting 2 of their blots. They fanned with 4-4. I rolled 2-2, cleaning up. They fanned with 2-2. I redoubled, they took. I rolled 5-5 hitting their other blot, they fanned with 2-2 and went on to get gammoned...........a dice sequence worthy of FIBS.

If they'd made the other play, there was no roll that allowed me to enter and exit while hitting 2 blots. What's the best roll is after the loose hit, 1-1, 2-2 or 2-6 ?

How would you play the position in a match; at DMP ? At gammon-save ? at gammon-go ?

The important lesson is to discipline yourself to see an opportunity when it presents itself. Sometimes the uglier play is the best.


Bob
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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 05:42:28 PM »

Offline sedat

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Re: Position # 55
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 08:00:16 PM »
This opportunity to win gammon is best taken by hitting the red man on the 1 point. If on the other hand the blot is not hit then there is a slight chance to lose the game because red is miles ahead in the race (if he can get out in time that is). If red rolls a 1 then I might roll 2-1 and thus become an aspirant for winning the game gammon.

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