FIBS Board backgammon forum

hello @ll!

hallo @lle!


due to dons gag - he is not permitted to shout for an indefinite time - i am
unsure in answering the question:  how to behave on fibs?


aufgrund dons verbannung - er darf fuer unbestimmte zeit nicht schreien
(naja ;) - bin ich unsicher, was die frage angeht:
wie benimmt frau/mann sich auf fibs?



immediately the *free-don-movement* arose. but in best times we were not
more then 20 nicks :) our *free-don-shouts* were ignored or objected to. we
were told, he was begging to be punished :)) and i asked myself: *why
doesn't he ask to be ungagged?*


sofort ist die *befreie-don-bewegung* entstanden. aber in den besten zeiten
waren wir nicht mehr als 20 spitznamen :) unsere *befreie-don-rufe* wurden
ignoriert oder es wurde ihnen widersprochen. uns wurde erzaehlt, er habe
gefleht, bestraft zu werden :)) und ich habe mich selbst gefragt: *warum
fleht er nicht darum, wieder schreien zu duerfen?*


then i consulted a lawyer**) and he told me *read the law and you will know,
what is right.* and *the owner of a server has all rights.*


dann habe ich einen anwalt konzertiert und er meinte *ein blick ins
gesetzbuch erleichtert die rechtsfindung* und *die/der eigentuemerIn eines
servers hat alle rechte.*


so i finally found the rules:
the greeting formula at fibslogin gives some borders:


also habe ich die regeln dann auch gefunden:
die grussformel beim fibseinloggen zeigt einige grenzen auf:


> this server is on the net to meet people from all countries.
- yeah - i enjoy it - btw i am improving english and slang


> dieser server ist im internet, damit menschen aus allen laendern sich
> treffen koennen.
- ja - das gefaellt mir - nebenbei lerne ich auch englisch und
umgangssprache


> all sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!
- i saw this the first time login at fibs and was happy to read such a broad
hint.


- das habe ich gleich gesehen, als ich mich zum ersten mal angemeldet habe
und es hat mir sehr gefallen, solch deutlichen hinweis zu lesen.


> rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice.
- rude language is not defined, or is it? so i decided: rude words are not
found in the normal dictionary ( http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de ) but in
urban dictionary ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/ ) or in *uses of the
word ####* (
http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-####.html ) and
slang sometimes is not rude - makes the stuff difficult.
if i am true, rude language is written sometimes but not punished.


> unhoefliche sprache wird auf diesem server nicht toleriert. sei nett.
- unhoefliche sprache ist nicht definiert, oder? also habe ich fuer mich
beschlossen: unhoefliches ist nicht in einem normalen woerterbuch zu finden
( http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de ) aber bei urban dictionairy (das heisst halt
so;) ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/ ) oder in *uses of the
word ####* (
http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-####.html ) und
umgangssprache ist manchmal nicht unhoefliche - was die sache erschwert.
wenn ich mich nicht sehr irre, wird unhoefliche sprache manchmal schon
geschrieben, aber es wird nicht geahndet.


conclusion: reduced to the question:
what exactly did don do wrong?
so i know what's not allowed.


fazit: reduziert auf die frage:
was genau hat don falsch gemacht?
dann weiss ich, was nicht erlaubt ist





cassandra

+++++

**)
(we are still collecting to pay his bill ;)

(wir sammeln immernoch, um seine rechnung zu bezahlen ;)


+++++

post scriptum:
what's to say about the user *hitler*? i complained about him because of the nick
on repbot, but since i am not playing her/him , i can't complain about
her/him now ...


post scriptum:
was gibt es ueber den benutzer/die benutzerin *hitler* zu sagen? ich habe
ihn aufgrund des spitznamens beim repbot angezeigt, da ich mit ihr/ihm nicht
spiele, kann ich ihn jetzt nicht mehr anzeigen ...

Quote from: cassandra on July 01, 2008, 12:58:24 AM
hello @ll!

hallo @lle!


due to dons gag - he is not permitted to shout for an indefinite time - i am
unsure in answering the question:  how to behave on fibs?


aufgrund dons verbannung - er darf fuer unbestimmte zeit nicht schreien
(naja - bin ich unsicher, was die frage angeht:
wie benimmt frau/mann sich auf fibs?



immediately the *free-don-movement* arose. but in best times we were not
more then 20 nicks our *free-don-shouts* were ignored or objected to. we
were told, he was begging to be punished ) and i asked myself: *why
doesn't he ask to be ungagged?*


sofort ist die *befreie-don-bewegung* entstanden. aber in den besten zeiten
waren wir nicht mehr als 20 spitznamen unsere *befreie-don-rufe* wurden
ignoriert oder es wurde ihnen widersprochen. uns wurde erzaehlt, er habe
gefleht, bestraft zu werden ) und ich habe mich selbst gefragt: *warum
fleht er nicht darum, wieder schreien zu duerfen?*


then i consulted a lawyer**) and he told me *read the law and you will know,
what is right.* and *the owner of a server has all rights.*


dann habe ich einen anwalt konzertiert und er meinte *ein blick ins
gesetzbuch erleichtert die rechtsfindung* und *die/der eigentuemerIn eines
servers hat alle rechte.*


so i finally found the rules:
the greeting formula at fibslogin gives some borders:


also habe ich die regeln dann auch gefunden:
die grussformel beim fibseinloggen zeigt einige grenzen auf:


> this server is on the net to meet people from all countries.
- yeah - i enjoy it - btw i am improving english and slang


> dieser server ist im internet, damit menschen aus allen laendern sich
> treffen koennen.
- ja - das gefaellt mir - nebenbei lerne ich auch englisch und
umgangssprache


> all sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!
- i saw this the first time login at fibs and was happy to read such a broad
hint.


- das habe ich gleich gesehen, als ich mich zum ersten mal angemeldet habe
und es hat mir sehr gefallen, solch deutlichen hinweis zu lesen.


> rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice.
- rude language is not defined, or is it? so i decided: rude words are not
found in the normal dictionary ( http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de ) but in
urban dictionary ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/ ) or in *uses of the
word ####* (
http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-####.html ) and
slang sometimes is not rude - makes the stuff difficult.
if i am true, rude language is written sometimes but not punished.


> unhoefliche sprache wird auf diesem server nicht toleriert. sei nett.
- unhoefliche sprache ist nicht definiert, oder? also habe ich fuer mich
beschlossen: unhoefliches ist nicht in einem normalen woerterbuch zu finden
( http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de ) aber bei urban dictionairy (das heisst halt
so;) ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/ ) oder in *uses of the
word ####* (
http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-####.html ) und
umgangssprache ist manchmal nicht unhoefliche - was die sache erschwert.
wenn ich mich nicht sehr irre, wird unhoefliche sprache manchmal schon
geschrieben, aber es wird nicht geahndet.


conclusion: reduced to the question:
what exactly did don do wrong?
so i know what's not allowed.


fazit: reduziert auf die frage:
was genau hat don falsch gemacht?
dann weiss ich, was nicht erlaubt ist





cassandra

+++++

**)
(we are still collecting to pay his bill

(wir sammeln immernoch, um seine rechnung zu bezahlen


+++++

post scriptum:
what's to say about the user *hitler*? i complained about him because of the nick
on repbot, but since i am not playing her/him , i can't complain about
her/him now ...


post scriptum:
was gibt es ueber den benutzer/die benutzerin *hitler* zu sagen? ich habe
ihn aufgrund des spitznamens beim repbot angezeigt, da ich mit ihr/ihm nicht
spiele, kann ich ihn jetzt nicht mehr anzeigen ...

I'm with you cassie, wholeheartedly 

I hope all of fibsters keep their friendship and enjoy a joyfull companion.

Regards

You should not discriminate anybody because of his name.

Oder was kann der arme hitler dafür, dass er hitler heißt.
Und niemand kann sich das Haus aussuchen, in dem er geboren wird.

You can only talk this naively since you obviously have never been stalked by Don. It definitely sucks when he keeps contacting you in all available channels (tell, message, shout, even email) for weeks and month, despite the fact you already clearly responded to him and repeatedly asked to give it a rest. As for what exactly Don does in his attempts to contact you, NIHO had a pretty precise definition in the very debate which lead to his most recent ban: "Don would argue with a tree stump, and accuse it of flaming him."

So if you talk to a lawyer, please ask him what the legal situation for stalkers is. You should also give your lawyer the information that Don already was banned at least twice before for the very same reasons. One time it was a full ban for 6 month of his nick "don", the other time a permanent ban of his sock puppet "TDBot", which he used to circumvent permagags.

For myself, I am on his "to stalk" list for only a few month now and already puke, but Patti is on it for years. So I actually admire her calmness and sufferability. Always keep in mind Don only pretends to talk about an issue (in this case racism), in reality he is a lot more interested in the stalking and flaming part.

Quoteconclusion: reduced to the question:  what exactly did don do wrong?  so i know what's not allowed.

Depends entirely on who you flame.     I can't imagine anyone would ban you, dear cassandra!   

socksey

Quote from: inim on July 01, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
You can only talk this naively since you obviously have never been stalked by Don. It definitely sucks when he keeps contacting you in all available channels (tell, message, shout, even email) for weeks and month, despite the fact you already clearly responded to him and repeatedly asked to give it a rest. As for what exactly Don does in his attempts to contact you, NIHO had a pretty precise definition in the very debate which lead to his most recent ban: "Don would argue with a tree stump, and accuse it of flaming him."

So if you talk to a lawyer, please ask him what the legal situation for stalkers is. You should also give your lawyer the information that Don already was banned at least twice before for the very same reasons. One time it was a full ban for 6 month of his nick "don", the other time a permanent ban of his sock puppet "TDBot", which he used to circumvent permagags.

For myself, I am on his "to stalk" list for only a few month now and already puke, but Patti is on it for years. So I actually admire her calmness and sufferability. Always keep in mind Don only pretends to talk about an issue (in this case racism), in reality he is a lot more interested in the stalking and flaming part.

This is inim's typical nonsense. Nobody is interested in what has been your personal problems with don, or other fibsters. If don is bothering you via tells, messages, e-mails and other channels, banning don from shouting won't help you. And if you find his shouts as bothering and annoying as your own, simply gag him.  This is the most logical and reasonable solution: everyone having a problem with don's shouts, gag him. But server-gagging don and letting his enemies  to insult and mock him on purpose in shouts, knowing his inablity to respond is really a cruel and illogical thing, unacceptable and repugnant.

By the way, I really don't know what was the issue between Patti and don that night which caused don's server-gagging. Rumors say that don himself had asked Patti to gag him, if this is the case, then no objection is justified.

Regards

Quote from: PersianLord on July 01, 2008, 03:17:00 PM
If don is bothering you via tells, messages, e-mails and other channels, banning don from shouting won't help you.

The difference here is that he didn't bother a mere mortal, but her Pattiness. So she can ban him from shout, and she did it. I don't think this is only a response to that night's actual debate. She is well aware of Don stalking other fibsters (including but not limited to herself), and he shows this behaviour for years. Patti isn't just involved as a person but also as the shepard of the community.

She also surely HAS tangible workload because people stalked by Don complain to her about it. Patti has a long tradition in removing causes before symptoms, a valid way to save a hell of a lot of time in fixing issues.

So assuming she reacted to that specific shout battle is naive (only Patti knows for sure, of course). What she did is a verdict, giving Don a reminder that they in length communicated about his personality disorder and the problems it creates for her as an administrator. He agreed to give it a rest, but relapsed into old behaviour he solemnly swore to control to undo his first ban. He literally is on probation and violated the terms of that probation.

Quote from: PersianLord on July 01, 2008, 03:17:00 PM
server-gagging don and letting the kinds of vic to insult and mock him on purpose in shouts, knowing his inablity to respond is really a cruel and illogical thing, unacceptable and repugnant.

Consider that as an intended punishment for Don because he broke his promise to control his behaviour, and even worse to do that using especially the administrator as a target.

Quote from: PersianLord on July 01, 2008, 03:17:00 PM
By the way, I really don't know what was the issue between Patti and don that night which caused don's server-gagging.

Check you mail, I will send  you the logs. There is no need for guessing, fortunately.

There's no reason to check logs, inim.  Here's the relevant shouts (I leave it to the reader to figure who's log this is...):

Quotedon shouts: Interesting how it only takes 2-3 racists to shut down reasonable conversation.
FrankZoid shouts: righto don, end the racism
You shout: whats wrong with racism ?
FrankZoid shouts: bad for the soul
You shout: whose soul ?
FrankZoid shouts: the owner of the racism
don shouts: What's wrong with racism?  LOL.  Other than it's not supposed to be be tolerated here, it's sick, wrong, ignorant, and foolish.
donzaemon shouts:  Frank  you know what is really bad for the soul,   creating continuing arguments with people for no reason but you want to argue and keep it going ....   do a study of don , and see what you find
FrankZoid shouts: it's a sure sign of stupidity
donzaemon shouts:  he takes any moral highground he can find ,  but doesn't usually believe it
donzaemon shouts:  just so he can get an argument brewing
You shout: lol
FrankZoid shouts: I agree, aruing is not the way to go
You shout: you got that right
FrankZoid shouts: unlesss you are right
donzaemon shouts: lol
donzaemon shouts:  well ,  don is ALWAYS right ,  just ask him
don shouts: Or do those who are currently shouting racist (towel-head in this case) crap think that Eskimos or chimpanzees would act differntly if they were sitting on the world's oil reserves?  Perhaps if it was Aryans, it'd be OK?
FrankZoid shouts: don, what say you
zackf shouts: and of course, the retoprt to the typical Fibs greeting: "You say how are you, good luck, but you don't mean it"
zackf shouts: retort
don shouts: I say I despise racists, Frank.
FrankZoid shouts: I agree, but waht of donz point?
donzaemon shouts: anyway , it might be good to keep him on gag for those of you who are new to his antics ,  he deliberately tries to draw you in and keep things going ,  gag him early and life is good
don shouts: donzamon made a point?  Sorry, reiterate it, I musta filtered it thru his crap.
You shout: frank, stick around long enough, youll find that don will argue with a tree stump, and accuse the stump of flaming him
FrankZoid shouts: not sure it merits tat
FrankZoid shouts: that, drat, splat
don shouts: Note that I named no names, just commented on racism, and look who flamed, Frank.
Patti shouts: don, give it a rest already.  It's not your job to police behavior on FIBS.
don shouts: Patti, I thought that shouts weren't policed, except possibly for racist comment.  My mistake.
Patti shouts: You already know what my opinion is of your disruptive behavior.
don shouts: Oh, I'm sorry.  I'm not supposed to shout about NIHo.  I forgot when he shouted about me.
don shouts: My mistake, Patti.
Mort shouts: behavior is probably better when don's not logged in
donzaemon shouts: it's always better when don is not logged in ....
Mort shouts: anyone agree with that, say aye.......
Patti shouts: Nay
Mort shouts: don's got a big fan base tonight
don shouts: Say Patti, can I occasionally respond when jerks like donzaemon flame me by name?  Say one in 10, I respond?  Same same for rollingfool?
Mort shouts: l've seen things damn quiet when don is missing
Patti shouts: If you stopped responding, don, they'd stop bothering.
Mort shouts: he hasn't understood that for 10 years. why would he start now
donzaemon shouts: understood what ?
don shouts: You must be right, Patti.  If nobody objected to racism, there would be no objection to racism.  My bad.
donzaemon shouts:  I miss a lot at times like this ,  but I'd rather miss than take don off gag
donzaemon shouts: I've had don gagged for what , 2 years now ,  and I still hear the aftermath of his baiting me
Patti shouts: don, do you really think that your taking a stand in shouts is going to change anything?
janitorb shouts: i brought my mop
don shouts: I apologize to all who use racist terms like "rag head", "nigger", (use your imagination).  I was wrong to suggest you might be racist, and that FIBS might have some kind of objection to your sick philosophy.
janitorb shouts: don is right patti. fibs is a disgrace. what are you going to do about it?
Patti shouts: No, don, you were wrong for assumign that it was your job to say anything about it on FIBS.  You already know better.
janitorb shouts: a travesty and an insult to decent folk everywhere; it should not be tolerated
FrankZoid shouts: who is Pati?
Patti shouts: What are you proposing, janitorb?
don shouts: Sorry Patti, I'll not quote FIBS anymore.
janitorb shouts: fibs should be abolished this minute. we can no longer tolerate such filth
You shout: janitorb is here to mop the floors
Patti shouts: You log off first, janitor.  I'm sure everyone will follow if they agree.
Patti shouts: FrankZoid, you're (quite literally) in my house.
FrankZoid shouts: I see, you are FIBS?
don shouts: For some reason, "All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!" shows up every time I login to FIBS Patti.  It must be my computer.  Or should I not quote that?
janitorb shouts: first you should blow me don
Patti shouts: No, don, you should not.  You already know that.
janitorb shouts: then you can do what quote what you want
don shouts: I'm sorry Patti, but I don't "already know" that I shouldn't quote the famous FIBS opening message.
Patti shouts: don, how many times have I told you that it's not your job to police behavior on FIBS?  For how many years?
rollingfool shouts: patti, don't get sucked into a don style argument
don shouts: Patti, how am I policing behavior?  I'm just agreeing with the opening message?  To police behavior, I'd need power of arrest, or ban.
rollingfool shouts: mort and donz have been teaching me
rollingfool shouts: see, now he is baiting you, faking ignorance to get your attention
don shouts: rollingfool and vegasvic are policing behavior when they tell me to STFU.
rollingfool shouts: it's so transparent!
Patti shouts: don, give it up.  You're closing in on the noshout list.
don shouts: NIHO is policing behavior when he rips my identity and brags about it
rollingfool shouts: now the tells start
janitorb shouts: nobody could rip you harder than you rip yourself don
janitorb shouts: and i pray you never stop
sale shouts: Seems to me that don is not FIBS friend:)
You shout: oh, the pathos
don shouts: I'm stating my opinion more logically than these jerks by quoting what FIBS says, and you don't like it because it happens to be true, Patti.
don shouts: All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!
donzaemon shouts:  yeah , don is better gagged , but he uses whatever he can to get to keep things going ,  and going ....... and going ....
janitorb shouts: oh the humanity!!
janitorb shouts: how much can one man take??
Patti shouts: No, don, I don't like it because you happen to do it incessantly, and in an obnoxious and disruptive manner.  You've been told for years not to do it.
Mort shouts: who is don talking to?
don shouts: Change that or ban me again, Patti, or get reasonable, or shut up.
You shout: oh, the humidity
rollingfool shouts: don, ruled by logic, continues to miss his own biggest faults
Patti shouts: As you wish
donzaemon shouts: it's not about seeing faults for him ,  it's about keeping the ball rolling and making sure someone is arguing with him
sale shouts: don sounds very reasonable to me... maybe I missed something...
donzaemon shouts: he'll do that at any cost
don shouts: I'm sorry Patti, but as long as "All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!" is part of FIBS I will object to those, when I care to, who use terms debasing people based on their race, sex, and/or habits
janitorb shouts: its just not fittin fer decent folk
don shouts: I've avoided one specific user at your request, Patti.
You shout: where are all those decent folk when we need them ?
donzaemon shouts:  he always tries to sound reasonable ,  nobody would keep going with him if he didn't claim ignorance and try to grasp some moral highground
don shouts: probably the worst.
WildThing shouts: well you are probably within your rights to an everyone pretty much shouts what they want, but why keep harassing patti about it, she has already told you to leave her alone about it
rollingfool shouts: moral high ground?  you mean pompous holier than thou rhetoric?
donzaemon shouts: he has mastered the techniques of 'appearance'  and creating a skew between that appearance and the presentation underneath to only a few who he chooses
don shouts: And tonight, NIHo specifically named me, Patti, so go figure.
rollingfool shouts: lack of humor, humility, or insight
rollingfool shouts: don has put his foot in it tonight
donzaemon shouts: but the patterns get old after a while
Patti shouts: You really don't understand it, do you don?
rollingfool shouts: congrats don, and dump on patti while you are at it
janitorb shouts: no dump on me first
don shouts: Apparantly not, Patti.  It seems anyone can be a racist, anyone can flame me, but I'm not allowed to object to racists.
Patti shouts: Yep, don, you've lost that right.
donzaemon shouts:  it SHOULD be simple Gordon ,  that's the whole idea ,  he finds these areas to work
FrankZoid shouts: looks to me like don can't help himself, he just can't stop. But he must enjoy this, is that your point donz?
Patti shouts: It doesn't say "are not allowed to log in, and don gets to hound them when they do."
don shouts: No, I haven't lost that right, Patti.  You can take it away, making FIBS a better place for racists and you, but I still have it, whether I login here or not.
donzaemon shouts: pretty much
donzaemon shouts:  it's clearly intentional ,  because it has gone on for 12 years or more
sale shouts: Patti:)))))))))))))))))))))))))000 Patti shouts: It doesn't say "are not allowed to log in, and don gets to hound them when they do."
sale shouts: nice one...
janitorb shouts: don, i missed you when patti last banned you
FrankZoid shouts: wow, you others folks are patient people ;-)
donzaemon shouts:  just look him up in google if you have doubts ,  the exact same sh** happening 12 years ago ..... it just never ends
don shouts: I feel sorry for you Patti, that you can't enforce the anti-racist rules on FIBS so you take the easy payth of getting rid of those who object.
rollingfool shouts: lol
rollingfool shouts: gordon, you perceptive fellow
donzaemon shouts:  lol ,  don gets kicked ,  he'll come right back claiming he logged off himself
Patti shouts: But he won't be able to shout.
donzaemon shouts:  that would be a very good thing
Denise shouts: But if don can't shout, what will entertain the troops?
sale shouts: Why Patti? It is so interesting... let don talk... he is not rude etc...
Mort shouts: l'm keeping him on gag just in case
donzaemon shouts:  and he takes it easy on you compared to some ..
Patti shouts: sale, because he's already been told (many years ago) that he's not allowed to do that.  He actually got a six-month ban for it once.

It's best summed up by:  Patti shouts: You really don't understand it, do you don?

I don't.  Patti thinks I'm policing behavior on FIBS, but a cop needs some power of enforcement which I lack.  What I do is express my opinion of what, to me, is sick behavior.  I don't do this every time I see it, and I've been ignoring NIHo lately (due to a Patti-fiat) though he still gets in the occasional flame.

What you can see here is, there wasn't much of a problem until Patti started shouting.  There was no private communication.  I think those who insist on using racist terms are encouraged by Patti's seeming defense in shouts.

Ah well, the great FIBS experiment goes on, with selected censorship by Patti!

As for inim's general comments on this thread, LOL, has anyone ever tried to STOP a conversation with inim?

--
don

Quote from: don on July 01, 2008, 04:39:00 PM
cassandra shouts: frank, stick around long enough, youll find that don will argue with a tree stump, and accuse the stump of flaming him

Please note that there is an editorial error for search/replace in Don's post. He got the logs from cassandra, who got them from me, who got them from NIHolympic who did the original cut/paste from JavaFibs shout window.

Thus: "You" was erraneously replaced with "cassandra", but "You" in the original logs is "NIHolympic". So all quotes attributed to cassandra (who wasn't logged in at that time) must be attributed to NIHolympic instead.

Thanks inim.  My bad.  Just hit a global search and replace with the wrong parameters by accident.

--
don

Well, you all know I was initially a clear fan of a kina 'FIBS Police'. But now I see Patti's approach simply the best and most efficient way of managing the FIBS. Everybody having every problem with everybody else, simply gag him. Yes, this is FIBS, take it or leave it. We don't need a language police.

Those who don't know the past are damned to repeat it ...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.backgammon/search?group=rec.games.backgammon&q=banned+don+fibs

I think the issue is simple. Remove the "All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!" message and replace it with "All sorts of racists and fascists - we provide a room where you can shout it out to your heart's content". That or keep the hypocritical make-FIBS-look-bad-to-anyone-with-any-decency notice in place. The first option is better because then at least don will be unable to complain that  racists and fascists are making a mockery out of FIBS, as they did yesterday and today and will do again tomorrow and the next day.

@Patti: Is there any reason why that message can't be zapped?

Quote from: inim on July 01, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
...
For myself, I am on his "to stalk" list for only a few month now and already puke...

LOL, that's inim to the core.  He pulls a page from other abusers' books by accusing me of practicing inim-ical behavior.

Quote from: inim on July 01, 2008, 03:52:19 PM
...He agreed to give it a rest, but relapsed into old behaviour he solemnly swore to control to undo his first ban. He literally is on probation and violated the terms of that probation.

Consider that as an intended punishment for Don because he broke his promise to control his behaviour, and even worse to do that using especially the administrator as a target.

I sure would like to see this solemn vow, and I bet inim would too!  No matter, inim waves his hands and it must be so.

Quote from: inim on July 01, 2008, 09:07:59 PM
Those who don't know the past are damned to repeat it ...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.backgammon/search?group=rec.games.backgammon&q=banned+don+fibs

This's just inim at his "best", citing a general Google search result as typical inim-uendo.  Care to bother to debate on specific issues?  Nah, not inim.

Now if you want to see inim and others going on ("and don and don..") the following is from Saturday, a week and a half after my last shout on FIBS.  This is not the only example, just one morning's harvest of flames.  I suspect Webby's editor will expurgate some of the words, and I wouldn't recommend checking zyxtcba's fantasy .jpg!

Quote
...
Anthony_J shouts: i have fibs and im still a proud serial killer....just this morning i stabbed a box of corn flakes to death...
nicky shouts: kombawa Donz
...
donzaemon shouts:  fibs keeps them off the streets  lol ,  that's what I always thought about don ,  he gets his strange urges out here , I always wondered how many kids around his area it saved
donzaemon shouts:  they may be in danger now
...
Anthony_J shouts: you're right donz....give done back his shouts...before he kills 100 people...
...
zyxtcba shouts: http://www.moid.org/ed/oopsie.jpg
Anthony_J shouts: #### me...
zyxtcba shouts: ew
...
donzaemon shouts: zyx , you know who needs to see that ?  Joe Tamargo
papillon shouts: no, i just came to play one game
Anthony_J shouts: lol donz
Anthony_J shouts: sicko
Anthony_J shouts: lmao
zyxtcba shouts: ya - that's his speed
Anthony_J shouts: oh no...
zyxtcba shouts: can we photo shop out a leg?
Anthony_J shouts: leave old folks out of this...they dont deserve it...
...
zyxtcba shouts: there IS a picture of a guy giving a hanlen to a black chick in there somewhere
Anthony_J shouts: and ?
...
Anthony_J shouts: did you blow a load over that one zyx ?
...
donzaemon shouts:  don will look at it then come up with a rant 2 hours later , good thing it'll all be blocked ,  he'll probably do it anyway just to hear himself
vegasvic shouts: zyx , patti told me we have to stop picking on don
Anthony_J shouts: oh ####...dont mention its name donz !!! you might summon it
WildThing shouts: is he off gag?
Anthony_J shouts: like bealzebub
Anthony_J shouts: no
vegasvic shouts: that he is only 50% of the problem , i said maybe he is 99.99%
WildThing shouts: ;;-((
Anthony_J shouts: he is 100000000% of the problem...
...
zyxtcba shouts: I am using the dictionary term "hanlen" in a specific manner to add meaning to my sentence.
...
donzaemon shouts:  vic , that's just because he's incessantly whining to Patti about it ,  just ask her to supply the logs ,  'cause he's probably making up a bunch of sh**
...
zyxtcba shouts: just like I might say I will "don" my coat.
Anthony_J shouts: \is
WildThing shouts:  you are all guilty
Anthony_J shouts: bs
Anthony_J shouts: its getting chilly here....im might don my trenchcoat too...
papillon shouts: why don't you all just not say anything to him, then you won't have a problem
donzaemon shouts:  you know how he just makes sh** up , he's probably making up good sh** for her
Anthony_J shouts: mmmmm.....comfy
papillon shouts: he's not even here and you can't shut up about him
papillon shouts: he's the problem?
donzaemon shouts: yup
zyxtcba shouts: yup
WildThing shouts: no
Anthony_J shouts: maybe if he didnt sprout sh** there wouldnt be a problem ??
zyxtcba shouts: yup
Joe_Tamargo shouts: Hi papillon.
...
Anthony_J shouts: ffs....he has been doing this for how long ?
papillon shouts: and you're still all filling shouts with him
Anthony_J shouts: yet some of the "newer" people defend this idiot ??
WildThing shouts: joe tmeowwwrrrgooo;;-))
Anthony_J shouts: are you kldding ??
papillon shouts: hi Joe
Anthony_J shouts: tlk about gullible...
papillon shouts: how are you?
WildThing shouts: like i keep saying i treat people the way they treat me
donzaemon shouts: anyone who hasn't experienced it doesn't have any idea how twisted and sick it is ,  but  he incessantly ####s with you daily for years ,  give us a few weeks to wind down and he'll go into insignicance where he belongs
...
Anthony_J shouts: exactly donz....we've both experienced it...
...
papillon shouts: why don't you just ignore him then?
zyxtcba shouts: http://www.moid.org/ed/oopsie.jpg ... did someone suggest joe should see that pic?
Anthony_J shouts: i tried hard to stick up for him once, after he helped me out a lil...then he sh** in my face...
Anthony_J shouts: so...
inim shouts: and it went on an don an don an don ...
Anthony_J shouts: ####im
Anthony_J shouts: speaking of america bashers...
donzaemon shouts:  I used to stick up for him , before he began targetting me
Anthony_J shouts: hows things old man ? good too see you btw
donzaemon shouts:  it's really hard to see how ####ed up he is ,  if he hasn't done it to you
Anthony_J shouts: yes it is
Anthony_J shouts: too many people in here have a "soft" view of him...
inim shouts: then i saw his face, now i'm a believer ...
Anthony_J shouts: taken in by his bpd...
Anthony_J shouts: share the drugs, inim
papillon shouts: bpd?
Anthony_J shouts: work it out...not hard
WildThing shouts: bi polar disorder?
Anthony_J shouts: close...
...
donzaemon shouts: naturally , they can't see the underlying bullshit ,  when he just makes up lies about something  you say daily then takes the obviously correct point like he's arguing with you etc,  just to bait you into the argument etc.    it's easy to ignore for a few months , but it goes on and on and on ....
inim shouts: i reall donno, bashing goes on even when "he" is logged in
Anthony_J shouts: you took almost a para to say that,donz....but you
nailed it 100% easily....good job
WildThing shouts: i dunno i still think don and donzz are the same person
inim shouts: is that really such a hot topic?
Anthony_J shouts: bullshit inim
papillon shouts: no way, manx
RickrInSF shouts: lol WT
Anthony_J shouts: um...they're not...try a trace...sheesh...
Anthony_J shouts: geezus
RickrInSF shouts: problem is that they don't know it, (alter egos)
WildThing shouts: nah, just fun to see the responses
WildThing shouts:  but i am not hte only one who says it
donzaemon shouts: some people do think that ,  but usually it's because their IQ can't get past the first 3 letters
Anthony_J shouts: yeah it is....i might try that trick myself...
inim shouts: saiswhut?
Anthony_J shouts: exactly donz...
WildThing shouts: You shout: i dunno i still think don and donzz are the same person
donzaemon shouts: some people do think that ,  but usually it's because their IQ can't get past the first 3 letters
Anthony_J shouts: next...
zyxtcba shouts: WildThing shouts: You shout: i dunno i still think don and donzz are the same person donzaemon shouts: some people do think that ,  but usually it's because their IQ can't get past the first 3 letters 
inim shouts: na, donz is easily recognized by the "Z" at the end of his nick
Anthony_J shouts: anyone have anything original ??
WildThing shouts: actually inim it's an n at the end
donzaemon shouts:  give him a week or two and even the people who are channeling him here will get tired of it , then he'll just disappear  , poof  ,  and it'll be a very nice place again
Anthony_J shouts: trace the ip's...and tell me don hanlen is smart enough to spoof same ?
Anthony_J shouts: get real...
vegasvic shouts: wild ? what redeaming value do you think don brings to the table ?
zyxtcba shouts: do not be badmouthing the letter z ...
Anthony_J shouts: lmfao
WildThing shouts: by that time he will be back
vegasvic shouts: name me one
donzaemon shouts:  hopefully he won't come back
Anthony_J shouts: don couldn't spoof in his pants without a lot of time or help...
Anthony_J shouts: sheesh...
WildThing shouts: he makes me laugh
inim shouts: he is right here logged in as we speak, *z
WildThing shouts:  he sings me songs
Anthony_J shouts: some people need the G stamp on their foreheads...
inim shouts: WT, he does that to noobs
Anthony_J shouts: and the entry in the dictionary...
Joe_Tamargo shouts: Well, he provides a subject of conversation.
Anthony_J shouts: he does joe
donzaemon shouts: I hope Patti has enough balls to keep this permanent , it's so much better without is blathering 
Anthony_J shouts: which is something, i spose..
WildThing shouts: it would be if you all would shut up about it
inim shouts: patti? balls?
Joe_Tamargo shouts: What happened?  Did Patti bar him?
Anthony_J shouts: it is donz...i doubt it tho...he will bleat and bleat and bleat...
vegasvic shouts: miss_treat is the one with the balls donz
WildThing shouts: but you  all go on even more when he is not here
inim shouts: GenderException
vegasvic shouts: not patti
donzaemon shouts:  he's not banned Joe , he's STUF'd
Anthony_J shouts: go on inim....say what you mean...dont be a pussy....spell it out...
...
donzaemon shouts: STFU'd
Joe_Tamargo shouts: That's cryptic.
Anthony_J shouts: it is
vegasvic shouts: i would never trust my balls to a butch
donzaemon shouts:  it means he can't shout
papillon shouts: so much better without HIS blathering?  but you all won't shut up about him yourselves
papillon shouts: don't you see how ridiculous that is
Anthony_J shouts: nope...
...
papillon shouts: so he's not here, but now we all have to listen to you all go on and on about him forever?
inim shouts: WT the point is that there wil always be noobs defending D, such as yourself
Anthony_J shouts: he had a part in ####ing this place up....hence he should be derrided for all times...
inim shouts: that's why it goes on and on and on
inim shouts: victimization as a way to immortality
...
donzaemon shouts: there will still be fighting and bickering papillon , but  it won't be absolutely pathological and methodical

Interestingly, only a few days previous, inim admitted he was wrong to discuss me and the shout ban.  Hey, what do you expect from inim (or these other bozos)?  The question is, who's stalking and harassing whom?  The shouts speak for themselves.

According to Patti, if I complain about this kind of one-sided harassment using email,

Quote
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008, Patti Beadles wrote:

Repeat after me:  "I am not the FIBS police officer."

-Patti

...though I don't know how bringing something up to the one and only FIBS cop in email constitutes being a cop myself.  It is exactly this double standard of Patti's that is the reason why I debate her policies when she makes a hypocritical issues and threats of them.

The paraphrase of Lord Acton by inim was damned appropriate!  So far we've seen inim's version of recent history (untrue) and his reference to long term history (meaningless).  Here's some real history that is a bit more pertinent.  For these original text (with headers) messages, you can view the thread by clicking the discussion name at the top.

• 
  Some guy from Jacksonville impersonates me.
• 
  The guy from Jacksonville gets creatively sick.
• 
  NIHILIST (from Jacksonville! duh!) chimes in.
• 
  And more from NIHo, gee, from Jacksonville!
• 
  The dog pack impersonates another FIBSter, this one from UK.
• 
  And here's that fellow from Jacksonville feeding the flames!
• 
  Here, NIHo starts an argument faking my ID....
• 
  ...and ends it as himself!
• 
  ...there's lot's more!

I hope you're paying attention to the headers, particularly the trace and source elements.  (BTW, the real miss_nurse, no longer on FIBS, had nothing to do with these bogus rips of her ID.)

These are important because they start the serious harassment of me by NIHo and his dog pack.  He involved Honeygirl in his rips of my ID and, when I responded to Honeygirl's harassment of me, she complained to Patti, who eventually banned me from FIBS because I refused to (completely) ignore HG's harassment unless Patti would require HG to STOP same.  The situation today is, I am not allowed to respond when HG or NIHo flame me.

The situation today is that NIHo, donzaemon, Biggles, zyxtcba and others still quote these (and other) bogus posts in FIBS shouts.  A bit more interesting than the results of a Google search in an inim-gnorant version of history, IMO.

Enough for now.

--
don

...........

It seems I may have not made clear that NONE OF THE LINKS I LISTED ON MY LAST POST TO rec.games.backgammon ARE FROM ME!  Some are proven NIHILogisms, others from members of his dog-pack.  If you click on the link:  'Message from discussion xxxxxx' you will occasionally see responses from me listed.   Here's a real post from me.  Note the header info about sources and traces.

--
don

german translation will follow...

hello @ll!


i read this stuff here and all the tells** i got since i posted my question. i included all information into my consideration.

my conclusion is:
patti is the owner of the server and root. she can do everything she likes without asking anybody (yy
and i accept this

but people get second chances i see ...
how many influence at pattis decisions the fibsters have, one only can suppose ...
so i understand her now: she only wants to do her work without beeing bothered with kindergarten-stuff which is not only don but also some other fibsters.
its easier to gag one then a couple of ...
and it seemes not to be possible to educate the normal fibs user in the *gag and blind*-feature - which would be the best way to clear up this situation imho.


greetings cassandra


.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.o*°*o.



explenations
============

why did i do this post?
------------------------

1. i wanted to know what don did wrong ... to do not the same mistakes
2. i am german and if you take a look on my avatar you maybe understand my persistent fight against discrimination, racism, fashism

** the tells i got
------------------
spread over *if you speak for don you can not be longer my friend* to *wtg cass!* including examples about dons botherings or so called stalking manners...

accusation: stalking
---------------------

as i see, some fibsters are really bothered of don (at least one is bothered of me ... btw). i am no judge, but imo it sounds more like bothering then stalking. theres a difference you should know.

it is possible to prevent unsolicited tells/messages/shouts on fibs by simply *gag and blind*-command. isn't it?
if i am wrong, i would suggest to add this features.

other unsolicited things like emails, telefoncalls etc. one may provide in hiding her/his emailaddress or telefonnumber.
if a accused stalker got the dates from this person herself, the chances to bring the accused stalker to a court are very small - so it is in germany as i know from personal experience in dayly life...
nowadays there are good spam-filters and telefon-switches available which help ignoring stalking attacs.

more about this theme you may read in following sites - so i hope with the same information i have you can come to the similar conclusion...

stalking:
http://www.sociosite.org/cyberstalking_en.php

cyberstalking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#cite_note-menace-1

faking emailheaders
--------------------

this is a serious attacc but not a fibs-problem. unfortunately ...

friend of enemy is enemy
-------------------------

i am a little disappointed that i had to read such nonsense. please read my 1st post and meditate about ... ty

repbot-function complain
-------------------------

this would be like what we see here.
some are discussing, the others are quiet - wise or not interested?

can be compared with elections/polls - some like them, some don't like them.
there are good reasons not to like them.

username hitler
----------------

if it is allowed it is infamous at least...

fibs welcome-message
---------------------

this message i like.
since we fibsters are not the police we can not to anything against trespasses.
makes me sad.
but this is live...

Quote from: cassandra on July 03, 2008, 12:25:39 PM
it is possible to prevent unsolicited tells/messages/shouts on fibs by simply *gag and blind*-command. isn't it?
[...]
other unsolicited things like emails, telefoncalls etc. one may provide in hiding her/his emailaddress or telefonnumber.

Patti is the site admin, how can she hide anything? Her full address, phone, email, and of course her main fibs nick are completely public. To a lesser extend this holds for anybody doing some exposed service on fibs, e.g. running a bot, or maintaining software or services. Your trick assumes you are Joe User and can remain in splendid anonymity, which many here either can not do or do not want to do. And if anybody here is forced to hide his identity because of stalkers, I think there is something rotten in FIBSmark.

As for emails, if you wade through the old r.g.b. archives you will find that Patti at one point simply banned Don's domain and his email sender address on the low level (this was long before email clients had filters). All this is WORK. Why exactly should she accept that one single person who thinks he is on some kind of weird crusade has the right to create arbitrary large amounts of work for her? Patti banned him from shout because she can not hide, that's the whole point. But she can punish, and she did.

As for what is allowed to say in FIBS shout, another old r.g.b. posting gives this definition: anything which is not illegal or bothers Patti. Guess that's the summary. Self proclaimed fibs police officers such as Don don't accept this, which causes a lot of trouble for the admin who tries to enforce THIS policy, as contrasted to the policy the self proclaimed fibs cops suggest (of course without any hint or clue how it could be implemented). Don's application as a cop was refused years ago, but he doesn't shut up about it. So, if he can't follow the ESTABLISHED rules, and he does it in a most annoying way to the admin, he is lucky to be only gagged in shout and not completely banned. It's that simple.

My suggestions for Don are: Either he opens his own backgammon server, all the software needed for that is open source. He can implement any policy he wants there, but probably has to give up his day job to do so  -- quality censorship takes a lot of time. Alternatively, if he can't stand FIBS shout so badly, why he logs in and doesn't toggle silent firsthand? The precision version of this is to gag all the people who bother him, which is what cassandra just suggested everybody else should do. But Don has the right to whine forever and simply refuse to do it himself? Nay, nay, nay.

But none of the above suggestions is of any interest to Don, because he is in it for the flaming part and to cause trouble. And this for a decade now. Patti is definitely blessed with the patience of an angel, isn't she?